Re: VIRGIL: artes romanae

2006-09-30 Thread David Wilson-Okamura
It's those exceptions, oratory and poetry, that give me pause. It's easy to be modest about poetry when you have something else to fall back on, such as a political career. So far as we know, Virgil didn't pursue that. He wrote about power, but he didn't seek it. Of course, he did get influence, which is more than most of us have. But influence is not the same thing as imperium. 

 
Virgil's restraint, if that's what it is here, is something we don't see very often. It's difficult, whether you're a poet or merely someone who earns his living by writing about poetry and giving lectures on it, not to make exaggerated claims for what you do. 
E.g., "Poets are the hierophants of an unapprehended inspiration; the mirrors of the gigantic shadows which futurity casts upon the present; the words which express what they understand not; the trumpets which sing to battle, and feel not what they inspire; the influence which is moved not, but moves. Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." I wish I'd written that, because it's a great piece of writing. All the same, I'm glad it was Shelley who said it and not Virgil.

 
---Dr. David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org  david@virgil.org
English Department  Virgil reception, discussion, documents, &cEast Carolina UniversitySparsa et neglecta coegi. -- Claude Fauchet--- 



Re: VIRGIL: artes romanae

2006-09-30 Thread Leofranc Holford-Strevens
In message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David 
Wilson-Okamura  writes

Yesterday I was lecturing on these lines, which we all know by heart:
 
excudent alii spirantia mollius aera
(credo equidem), uiuos ducent de marmore uultus,
orabunt causas melius, caelique meatus
describent radio et surgentia sidera dicunt:
tu regere imperio populos, Romane, memento
(hae tibi erunt artes), pacique imponere morem
parcere subiectis et debellare superbos.    (Aen. 6.851-53)

Normally I concentrate on the last three verses. But while my mouth
was unpacking pax and subiectus, my mind was thinking about the first
part, which seems to confirm something a lot of my students think
anyway, that the liberal arts are for sissy Greeklings. Some questions,
which, one day later I still can't answer:



- Is Virgil really on their side?
Meaning P. Vergilius Maro the man, who at the time was living in the 
Greek city of Neapolis, presumably because he found it more congenial, 
or the poetic voice that narrates the poem, behind which there may or 
not be others?

- Is the force of these lines limited by their speaker, Anchises/Julius
Caesar
No, because they represent, with one exception, a state of affairs that 
was manifestly true, as obvious as when we British admitted at the 
height of our imperial and Parliamentary pride that the French were 
ahead of us in certain amenities of life such as cookery, but decided 
that what we excelled in mattered more. Even in the poet's own day, and 
even in Rome, the plastic arts rested largely on the hands of Greek 
craftsmen; in astronomy the Romans did not even compete. The exception 
is 'orabunt causas melius', which even at a time when Cicero was an 
unperson and his style out of fashion is hard to take: if you wanted a 
bronze or marble statue you went to a Greek, but you did not go to a 
Greek when bringing or defending a case in the Roman courts. Have we a 
case of what the Australians call cultural cringe, that Romans found it 
hard to believe they could match the Greeks even when they did?

- Are the verses regretful?
Not as such, in that they do not force regret upon the reader, but 
capable of being read with as much or as little regret as any individual 
reader might bring to them.

- Does it mean anything that Anchises omits poetry and philosophy?
If by philosophy you mean serious and original thought, the pursuit of 
sophiam sapientia quae perhibetur (Ennius, Annales 211-12 Skutsch), as 
opposed to the _haute vulgarisation_ of a Lucretius or a Cicero, then 
Vergil (I am speaking of the man, not the poetic voice), now that he has 
been firmly attested at Herculaneum, knew perfectly well even from 
personal experience that that was something conducted in Greek; not only 
by Greeks, but the Greeks generally regarded the Roman participants as 
mere dabblers, which is certainly the impression left on to the serious 
philosopher (or philistine if you prefer) by the beginning of Anchises' 
speech, a farrago of incompatible philosophoumena assembled for the 
creation of an atmosphere, in other words for a poetical purpose. The 
abstract and systematic intellectualism that we associate with the 
medieval and the modern Latin mind was not characteristic of the ancient 
(the nearest approach was in the law, but even there it was the 
Glossators and Postglossators who achieved it); and it was certainly not 
Vergil's (has it ever been any half-decent poet's?) for all his exposure 
to Greek thought; perhaps he did not value it highly enough, as he did 
sculpture and astronomy, to mention it here.


But poetry he certainly did value, and here there was no cultural cringe 
whatever; he knew that he, Horace, and others of his contemporaries, 
were producing work on a par with anything the Greeks had ever done, and 
even if we believe in his deathbed doubts, when his judgement was 
clouded by illness, he manifestly aspired to be the Roman Homer as he 
had already been the Roman Theocritus and the Roman Hesiod. However 
ironically some scholars have taken Propertius' nescioquid maius 
nascitur Iliade, it was surely not only Propertius who was saying so.


Leofranc
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Leofranc Holford-Strevens
67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone
Oxford   scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter?
OX2 6EJ

tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/353865(work)  fax +44 (0)1865 512237
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VIRGIL: artes romanae

2006-09-30 Thread David Wilson-Okamura
Yesterday I was lecturing on these lines, which we all know by heart:
 
excudent alii spirantia mollius aera
(credo equidem), uiuos ducent de marmore uultus,
orabunt causas melius, caelique meatus
describent radio et surgentia sidera dicunt: 
tu regere imperio populos, Romane, memento
(hae tibi erunt artes), pacique imponere morem
parcere subiectis et debellare superbos.    (Aen. 6.851-53)Normally I concentrate on the last three verses. But while my mouth was unpacking pax and subiectus, my mind was thinking about the first part, which seems to confirm something a lot of my students think anyway, that the liberal arts are for sissy Greeklings. Some questions, which, one day later I still can't answer:

 
- Is Virgil really on their side?
- Is the force of these lines limited by their speaker, Anchises/Julius Caesar
- Are the verses regretful?
- Does it mean anything that Anchises omits poetry and philosophy?
 
---Dr. David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org  david@virgil.org
English Department  Virgil reception, discussion, documents, &cEast Carolina UniversitySparsa et neglecta coegi. -- Claude Fauchet---