Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Hello Robinson, Le 17.09.2014 20:01, Robinson Tryon a écrit : On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: 1. Public Marketing List ShutDown The marketing list carries little of our current workflow; in fact, most of it has gone to the RedMine issue tracker already. On top of this, the marketing list is not read by most of the people concerned by marketing activities, namely the native-lang projects worldwide. PR coordination happens on the private list and to a lesser extent on IRC for meetings. The marketing list, just like any list, requires administration work, i.e. moderation. There's a lot of spam arriving, usually in waves, and it requires the approval or refusal of incoming mails (spam, unsubscribed posters, etc.) How public is the marketing project in Redmine? Right now people can easily join or review what's going on in marketing by subscribing to or looking in the marketing archives. Would the same public nature carry-over into Redmine? Yes, absolutely. While RedMine does offer the ability to close, privatize, restrain certain spaces and areas or entire projects we are not contemplating that and should always keep this public. Anyone -today that is already the case if I'm not mistaken- can check out RedMine, see what's going on and in order to edit RedMine you need an account (an email address and password). anything else, such as discussions, would happen on the discuss list and for cross-project awareness on the project mailing list. So let's say someone want to discuss marketing strategies in schools. Would that go to the tdf-discuss list, or? There are several answers to that question. One is indeed to go to the discuss list, especially to discuss strategies. We had many discussions on these on the marketing list, even on the marketing list of the old OpenOffice.org project. None - none - actually carried any action item, task, concrete plans. It may perhaps be too long to discuss why that is so, but to this day this is the state of things we are left with. Essentially, I love strategies myself, but only the ones that are executed or executable. This is where we're coming back to RedMine: a strategy must be defined and broken down into several tasks, where progress report can be made (even if results may not always be measurable), and we can do this easily with RedMine. Another answer is that strategies are not devised every month and as such we are more likely talking about people who have ideas. Here again it is hoped that people can transform ideas -which are cheap unless someone acts on them- into a set of action items, and in doing so moving further in the definition of the idea and its realization. 2. New Wiki I am personally not entirely sold on this one, but we are in a situation where the marketing wiki pages are quite numerous, yet completely chaotic, and often outdated. We can think about cleaning these wiki pages, but given their amount we may consider to start a fresh with a new wiki. I'm not suggesting that we open twenty new wiki pages on RedMine tomorrow, but that we use it for a month if we need it. One of the benefits of having a single wiki is the ability to easily cross-link between teams, etc. Plus we do have a ton of content up there, including event pages stretching back multiple years. If the Marketing pages on the TDF wiki are hopelessly unusable, we can always move them all under /Marketing-old/ and start from a blank slate, but I'd expect that some heavy editing might be more productive? I really don't know. I also think that if we move to a brand new wiki we are indirectly questioning the relevance of the existing wiki, in one way or another, and it is not clear at that stage we want to leave the old wiki. My suggestion is to use the new wiki as an experiment for one month, and see where it takes us. ** Expected results: - increased efficiency - less maintenance (for us, not necessarily for the infra team ;-) ) - increased clarity in terms of resources, contacts, etc. Could you explain a bit more what you mean re: resources/contacts? Yes: it is my hope that resources (collaterals for instance) will be better displayed and easily retrievable on RedMine. Today it is complex. - task-based workflow (partially achieved already) A big +1 to a task-based workflow. I've been experimenting with redmine a bit myself, and I think that it has some potential for anything that's specifically encapsulated as a TODO item. I'm a bit more cautious about using it in lieu of existing infra for other purposes. Yes. I think it's important we give room to the experiment, and it is my belief that while anything cannot be turned or forced into a TODO item, we will increase our activity precisely by turning more things into tasks. Cheers, Charles. Cheers, --R -- Robinson Tryon QA Engineer - The Document Foundation LibreOffice Community
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Hi, just briefly on two topics, as I'm rather swamped these days: I'm glad the projects use Redmine and find it useful, that's great! What we should take care of is that everything that is product related should _not_ go into Redmine. For the design team, without knowing the concrete workflow, as an example: Iterations of designs can be handled in Redmine, but the issue to change icons in LibO should be in Bugzilla then. Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2014-09-17 at 16:47: The suggestion for the experiment is to stop using the public marketing list completely for one month, and to rely on the Issue tracker of RedMine meanwhile. The main idea here is to move our activities entirely I personally strongly suggest no _not_ close the mailing list or temporarily avoid using it. At least some pointers on the mailing lists are desired. new wiki. I'm not suggesting that we open twenty new wiki pages on RedMine tomorrow, but that we use it for a month if we need it. I propose to, for wiki pages, stick with Mediawiki, so we have one tool for the task. :) Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Er Florian, So you suggest we do not experiment with anything? Best, Charles. On 18 septembre 2014 11:51:44 CEST, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hi, just briefly on two topics, as I'm rather swamped these days: I'm glad the projects use Redmine and find it useful, that's great! What we should take care of is that everything that is product related should _not_ go into Redmine. For the design team, without knowing the concrete workflow, as an example: Iterations of designs can be handled in Redmine, but the issue to change icons in LibO should be in Bugzilla then. Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2014-09-17 at 16:47: The suggestion for the experiment is to stop using the public marketing list completely for one month, and to rely on the Issue tracker of RedMine meanwhile. The main idea here is to move our activities entirely I personally strongly suggest no _not_ close the mailing list or temporarily avoid using it. At least some pointers on the mailing lists are desired. new wiki. I'm not suggesting that we open twenty new wiki pages on RedMine tomorrow, but that we use it for a month if we need it. I propose to, for wiki pages, stick with Mediawiki, so we have one tool for the task. :) Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Hi, Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2014-09-18 at 12:13: Er Florian, So you suggest we do not experiment with anything? it's just my personal opinion - if each project hosts their discussion somewhere else, chaos will break free. Plus, the entry barrier for Redmine is much higher than for a mailing list, which makes me fear we would exclude people if we exclusively focus on that. Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Florian Effenberger wrote on 18-09-14 12:13: So you suggest we do not experiment with anything? it's just my personal opinion - if each project hosts their discussion somewhere else, chaos will break free. Plus, the entry barrier for Redmine is much higher than for a mailing list, which makes me fear we would exclude people if we exclusively focus on that. I've only read Charles initial mail (well and this short one) What I thought of: RedMine is great. Project focussed working. OK Furthermore: I think additionally a mailing list is important. Just that people can ask questions. Or to send some not one x/y/z.. Also, if just all great ideas are added (sometimes it may look like dumping) at Redmine, wouldn't that incline the risk of causing a mess. Could be coordinated via mail ;/ Charles: you think of doing all that via the discuss-list ?? Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Hi, On 18 septembre 2014 12:49:50 CEST, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote on 18-09-14 12:13: So you suggest we do not experiment with anything? it's just my personal opinion - if each project hosts their discussion somewhere else, chaos will break free. Plus, the entry barrier for Redmine is much higher than for a mailing list, which makes me fear we would exclude people if we exclusively focus on that. I've only read Charles initial mail (well and this short one) What I thought of: RedMine is great. Project focussed working. OK Furthermore: I think additionally a mailing list is important. Just that people can ask questions. Or to send some not one x/y/z.. Also, if just all great ideas are added (sometimes it may look like dumping) at Redmine, wouldn't that incline the risk of causing a mess. Could be coordinated via mail ;/ Yes indeed. Charles: you think of doing all that via the discuss-list ?? Well the point is to ensure that the discussions remain on the discuss list abd the work goes on Redmine. To answer Florian: I think today we have metrics showing we do not gain any contributors through the marketing mailing list but spend lots of energy maintaining it. I suggest we refrain from posting on it for 1 month and see how we feel about it... Best, Charles. Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Working with RedMine
Hi, Le 18/09/2014 14:05, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : On 18 septembre 2014 12:49:50 CEST, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote on 18-09-14 12:13: So you suggest we do not experiment with anything? it's just my personal opinion - if each project hosts their discussion somewhere else, chaos will break free. Plus, the entry barrier for Redmine is much higher than for a mailing list, which makes me fear we would exclude people if we exclusively focus on that. I've only read Charles initial mail (well and this short one) What I thought of: RedMine is great. Project focussed working. OK Furthermore: I think additionally a mailing list is important. Just that people can ask questions. Or to send some not one x/y/z.. Also, if just all great ideas are added (sometimes it may look like dumping) at Redmine, wouldn't that incline the risk of causing a mess. Could be coordinated via mail ;/ Yes indeed. Charles: you think of doing all that via the discuss-list ?? Well the point is to ensure that the discussions remain on the discuss list abd the work goes on Redmine. To answer Florian: I think today we have metrics showing we do not gain any contributors through the marketing mailing list but spend lots of energy maintaining it. I suggest we refrain from posting on it for 1 month and see how we feel about it... I, for one, am subscribed to the libreoffice Marketing and the Design lists (among others). Both lists managers (sorry, can't find an appropriate wording here) have decided to go the Redmine route. I understand this is much better for the workflows. I have to say that I appreciate receiving news through the lists channels, even though I don't post much. Stopping these channels won't bring information any more to the public about what's going on, the design paths that are taken. Thus, to me, as I probably won't have much time to visit the LibreOffice Redmines, the project life will now turn to be much on the stupid users side and I shall be deprived from much insight. I think leaving the Design and Marketing lists is a big mistake. Many people might be like me: listening much and speaking little. The fact that there's little incoming traffic doesn't mean there's no interest. Hence, I join my voice to Florian's one and kindly ask for a second thought on both the concerned lists. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
