[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice' part II

[Drew Jensen]

Lest I forget, there was also this from the earlier conversation:
"Perhaps you can provide a link and a QR-Code on the poster where the
user finds a description of changing the UI (notebook bar, Persona) or
to documentation or so."

Yes, good idea. I think there is a good placement for the QR-Code in empty
band of space just above the logo and below the last graphic,
I was wondering if there is already a basic graphic for which leads to the
website? One that could be re-used.

Thanks

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:42 PM Drew Jensen 
wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> OK, so I've taken what I've heard on the list here, thanks again, and make
> some changes to this file.
>
> First the graphics design elements. I pulled the libo6 branding zip file
> off the wiki (and the 5), I used the logo from this branding kit and then
> did a merge of part of the 4 branding and the 6 gray gradient branding. (I
> do the final background work with GIMP and did not upload the xcf file, but
> I would do so when this is finished along with odt in a zip file)
>
> I did this specifically to come at one of the points, raised here on the
> list, of presenting the change without causing undue concern regarding the
> current UI, with the message.
> You can see this in the file here: ChangingFaceOfLibreOffice.jpeg
> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/84391
>
> Text wise you will see it is reading more like a document page than a
> marketing piece, well I figure that I can try to kill two birds with one
> stone today.
> The odt file that is used is also available if you have a NC account and
> is: ChangingFaceOfLibreOffice.odt
> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/84046
>
> Assuming that the graphics stay as is, for the moment, and any wordsmith
> ideas on presenting the information in the text towards marketing would be
> deeply appreciated.
>
> Thanks and best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
> p.s. deleted the earlier jpeg off the NC server
>

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[libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice' part II

[Drew Jensen]

Howdy,

OK, so I've taken what I've heard on the list here, thanks again, and make
some changes to this file.

First the graphics design elements. I pulled the libo6 branding zip file
off the wiki (and the 5), I used the logo from this branding kit and then
did a merge of part of the 4 branding and the 6 gray gradient branding. (I
do the final background work with GIMP and did not upload the xcf file, but
I would do so when this is finished along with odt in a zip file)

I did this specifically to come at one of the points, raised here on the
list, of presenting the change without causing undue concern regarding the
current UI, with the message.
You can see this in the file here: ChangingFaceOfLibreOffice.jpeg
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/84391

Text wise you will see it is reading more like a document page than a
marketing piece, well I figure that I can try to kill two birds with one
stone today.
The odt file that is used is also available if you have a NC account and
is: ChangingFaceOfLibreOffice.odt
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/84046

Assuming that the graphics stay as is, for the moment, and any wordsmith
ideas on presenting the information in the text towards marketing would be
deeply appreciated.

Thanks and best wishes,

Drew

p.s. deleted the earlier jpeg off the NC server

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Drew Jensen]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 5:56 PM Drew Jensen 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM kainz.a  wrote:
>
>> I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
>> is in finishing.
>>
>
> I have the task of writing the draft for the Calc guide appendix on the
> Notebookbar interface changes. Likely that will feed the work on the
> Getting Started Guide appendix of the same name.
>
> Adding another UI  will add plenty of work.
>
> I would also hope you mean it when you say it will be finished, because
> from a system perspective and IMO tabbed notebook bar was not.
> Customization is lost when the new UI is active (extension or user added
> buttons not available, extension and user added menus not available) and a
> number of keyboard shorts cuts (which actually require the top level menus)
> no longer function. I would of thought such details required to be moved
> from experimental to standard feature.
>
> Then there are changes, for instance buttons of similar name and function
> between standard toolbar and notebook bar actually function slightly
> differently (don't know how many of those there are but there have been a
> few found and confirmed that the change in behavior is intentional).
>

And finally, the help system - there is no online help for the Notebook bar
(except for a two paragraph mention, which says it is experimental and how
to turn it on and off - so 50% of what is there is wrong in other words) -
I would expect that on-line help should also of been a prerequisite for
graduation from experimental.

Now I'm done.



>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
>
>>
>> Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity 
>> geschrieben:
>>
>>> Drew/Mike
>>>
>>> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>>>
>>> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
>>> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
>>> this can be automated without being intrusive
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> 
>>> From: Drew Jensen 
>>> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
>>> To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
>>> Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Howdy Mike,
>>>
>>> I will reply in line.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity >> > wrote:
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
>>> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
>>> user permits experimental features.
>>>
>>> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
>>> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
>>> are still experimental.
>>>
>>>
>>> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
>>> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
>>> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
>>> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
>>> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
>>> should be considered.
>>>
>>> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
>>> old and stayed as that look is).
>>>
>>> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
>>> top level View menu.
>>>
>>> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
>>> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
>>> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>>>
>>> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always
>>> available from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the
>>> top level menu also.
>>>
>>> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with
>>> the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some
>>> functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the
>>> All Tabs drop down menu.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Drew
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> 
>>> From: Mike Saunders >> mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
>>> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
>>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org>> marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>>> one
>>> > Poster.
>>>
>>> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>>> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>>> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>>> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>>>
>>> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>>> focus on one or two variants 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Drew Jensen]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM kainz.a  wrote:

> I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
> is in finishing.
>

I have the task of writing the draft for the Calc guide appendix on the
Notebookbar interface changes. Likely that will feed the work on the
Getting Started Guide appendix of the same name.

Adding another UI  will add plenty of work.

I would also hope you mean it when you say it will be finished, because
from a system perspective and IMO tabbed notebook bar was not.
Customization is lost when the new UI is active (extension or user added
buttons not available, extension and user added menus not available) and a
number of keyboard shorts cuts (which actually require the top level menus)
no longer function. I would of thought such details required to be moved
from experimental to standard feature.

Then there are changes, for instance buttons of similar name and function
between standard toolbar and notebook bar actually function slightly
differently (don't know how many of those there are but there have been a
few found and confirmed that the change in behavior is intentional).

Best wishes,

Drew



>
> Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity 
> geschrieben:
>
>> Drew/Mike
>>
>> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>>
>> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
>> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
>> this can be automated without being intrusive
>>
>> Nige
>> 
>> From: Drew Jensen 
>> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
>> To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
>> Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>> LibreOffice'.
>>
>> Howdy Mike,
>>
>> I will reply in line.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity > > wrote:
>> Mike
>>
>> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
>> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
>> user permits experimental features.
>>
>> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
>> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
>> are still experimental.
>>
>>
>> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
>> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
>> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
>> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
>> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
>> should be considered.
>>
>> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
>> old and stayed as that look is).
>>
>> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
>> top level View menu.
>>
>> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
>> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
>> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>>
>> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
>> from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
>> menu also.
>>
>> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with
>> the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some
>> functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the
>> All Tabs drop down menu.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Drew
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nige
>> 
>> From: Mike Saunders > mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
>> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org> marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>> LibreOffice'.
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>> >
>> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>> one
>> > Poster.
>>
>> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>>
>> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>>
>> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
>> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
>> on social media ;-) )
>>
>> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>>
>> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>>
>> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
>> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
>> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
>> if 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[kainz.a]

I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
is in finishing.

Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity 
geschrieben:

> Drew/Mike
>
> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>
> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
> this can be automated without being intrusive
>
> Nige
> 
> From: Drew Jensen 
> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
> To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
> Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Howdy Mike,
>
> I will reply in line.
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity  > wrote:
> Mike
>
> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
> user permits experimental features.
>
> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
> are still experimental.
>
>
> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
> should be considered.
>
> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
> old and stayed as that look is).
>
> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
> top level View menu.
>
> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>
> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
> from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
> menu also.
>
> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the
> Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions
> turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs
> drop down menu.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
> Regards
>
> Nige
> 
> From: Mike Saunders  mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Hello,
>
> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> >
> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> one
> > Poster.
>
> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>
> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>
> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> on social media ;-) )
>
> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>
> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>
> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>
> Mike
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> 
> Problems?
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> Posting guidelines + more:
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Nigel Verity]

Drew/Mike

That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.

It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how popular 
the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure this can be 
automated without being intrusive

Nige

From: Drew Jensen 
Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Howdy Mike,

I will reply in line.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity 
mailto:nigelver...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be 
selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the 
user permits experimental features.

Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other versions 
of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected are still 
experimental.


This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I 
can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a 
decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the 
notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle 
between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as old 
and stayed as that look is).

Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the top 
level View menu.

When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed. The 
Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all tabs, 
there is  also a tab specific menu.

The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available from 
the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level menu also.

It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the 
Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions turn 
on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs drop down 
menu.

Best wishes,

Drew


Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
mailto:mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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List archive: 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Drew Jensen]

Howdy Mike,

I will reply in line.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity 
wrote:

> Mike
>
> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
> user permits experimental features.
>

Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
are still experimental.


>
> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
> should be considered.
>

With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
old and stayed as that look is).

Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
top level View menu.

When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.

The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
menu also.

It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the
Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions
turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs
drop down menu.

Best wishes,

Drew


> Regards
>
> Nige
> 
> From: Mike Saunders 
> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Hello,
>
> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> >
> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> one
> > Poster.
>
> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>
> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>
> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> on social media ;-) )
>
> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>
> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>
> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>
> Mike
>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Nigel Verity]

Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be 
selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the 
user permits experimental features.

This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I 
can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a 
decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the 
notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle 
between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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