Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice and "datamining" - opportunity?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

Don't understate your graphic design skills! I found your "No telemetry" slide 
with the spy very powerful. It's a strong card to play and think consideration 
should be given to displaying it on the LO home page.

All the best

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data​


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 14 July 2023 11:02
To: Anshuman Pandey ; Marketing list 

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice and "datamining" - opportunity?

Hi again Anshuman,

On 12.07.23 09:50, Anshuman Pandey wrote:
>
> This is very topical in the Open Source community. Given the news on
> RedHat and Fedora and people's concerns on privacy, it is a good time to
> have a marketing campaign. Here are a few ideas (basically builds on
> your example)
>
> 1. Similar to the prior: No (In large Font) next to a) Data Mining, b)
> Telemetry, c) Hidden Algorithms
>
> 2. Instead of the NO, we can use a spyglass and cross it out in the
> first idea

Thanks for the ideas -- I think they're good. I tried with a spyglass,
and it looked a bit abstract. So instead, I found an image of someone
"spying" on your data, and made a version of the image like so:

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.documentfoundation.org%2Fimages%2Fa%2Faa%2FNo_data_mining.png=05%7C01%7C%7Cbce5c339c2c34619704d08db8451a7d7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638249258459760010%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=vblYGtS90W%2F%2BkRc99gHfOjv7mSHOMkgQGpDFYASviG0%3D=0

What do you think?

> 3. Puppet Strings: Show a bunch of documents  attached to puppet
> strings, being controlled by a hand (representing other office
> software). Next to this, show some documents free from strings and happy
> under the LibreOffice logo, illustrating the freedom and control you
> have over your documents.

That could also work, but needs someone with more graphic design skills
than me, I think :-) Anyone on the list here want to try making such an
image? That would be great help!

> For these ideas we can use a subtitle within the image as - "Don't worry
> about prying eyes on your data or hidden AI algorithms. With
> LibreOffice, your content is yours alone."

I like this too, and have integrated it into the image that I uploaded
on the wiki.

Cheers,
Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

Some good points, as always.

Regardless of the version numbering system, it looks like one imperative is to 
get people to update before their current version falls out of support.

While I don't rush to install the latest version on release day I don't like to 
rely on my distribution's repository as it often lags well behind. I download 
and install from the LO website. I often get a message within the LO UI 
informing me a newer version is available, but I still have to perform an 
uninstall followed by a full installation from .deb files using dpkg to perform 
that upgrade.

I may be naive in asking this, but is it feasible to develop a means of 
performing an upgrade from within the application? If it were just a matter of 
clicking on a dialog then sitting back for a couple of minutes or so, followed 
perhaps by a reboot, there would be little incentive NOT to upgrade.

Cheers

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data​

From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 07 April 2023 09:23
To: Eyal Rozenberg ; TDF Devs 
; TDF Marketing 
; TDF Design 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to 
LibreOffice 8?

Hello,

On 06.04.23 22:12, Eyal Rozenberg wrote:
>
> Great, what's the problem? Why should we be in a rush to get existing
> users to upgrade from 7.5 to 7.6?

Well, one argument is that we have very limited resources to support two
branches. LibreOffice 7.5 won't be around forever, so at some point
we'll need to push people to update to 7.6/8.0, as the previous version
won't be maintained and could potentially have security issues.

On Reddit, social media etc. we see lots of posts from people using
ancient versions of LibreOffice, and have no idea that there are newer
major releases. There are various reasons for that, but IMO we need to
keep people up-to-date. Not for quarterly sales targets as a
CompuGlobalHyperMegaCorp, as you say, but because it's better for us all
in the project when people are using maintained and supported versions.

> So,
> we should be at least skeptical about copying MS behavior regarding MSO
> in which their marketing wing is calling the shots.

Agreed that we shouldn't copy problematic behaviour, but if our goal is
to raise awareness of LibreOffice as much as possible, and get it into
as many hands as possible (and I know not everyone agrees with that),
then we have to be aware of the market in which we're operating, and
competing.

IMO, it's a lot like the whole "using proprietary services to reach
users" debate. Arguably, as a FOSS project, we should avoid closed
platforms like Twitter and Facebook. But we make a compromise and are
active on those platforms, because they are very effective for reaching
new users and communicating with them.

So I think our marketing has to balance these things. If we only care
about the technical side, we could use XTerm-style numbering (just keep
bumping a single number with every release). But as if we want to reach
Microsoft Office users and make a compelling argument to them, our
marketing has to fit.

And I know that Italo has a ton of experience and knowledge in this
field, so his perspective on this is very valuable IMO.

Cheers,
Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Gustavo

This is a very good point.

If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6, say, I 
wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that affected me. I'm 
pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0 far more quickly, if for no 
other reason that the psychological one of wanting to be using what my head 
tells me must be an improvement over my current version.

Of course release notes are available to determine what really has changed but 
I rather suspect that most users never read them.

The discussion of the different motivators for development and marketing people 
is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor anybody in my teams 
was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for very good reasons.

Cheers

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data​

From: Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco 
Sent: 05 April 2023 22:05
To: TDF Devs ; TDF Marketing 
; TDF Design 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to 
LibreOffice 8?

Hi Eyal, all!

 I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D

 I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation (if we
have, for sure it will be better).

 IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are
getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and
individual profiles).

 I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but thinking
about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this version
could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.

Best
Gustavo


On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg  wrote:

> I respectfully disagree with Italo.
>
> First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such as
> major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing
> decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is
> declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"
> before being "marketable".
>
> It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users
> receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t. version
> numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for coverage.
>
> A second point is that bumping a version number without a major
> innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say, Firefox
> and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning
> whatsoever. Italo, you said we are perceived as a "real innovator";
> well, when a real innovator starts having hollow version number bumping,
> that perception fades.
>
> Finally, everyone who likes the marketing potential of version 8 -
> great, but - keep that benefit for when we have a significant step
> forward to celebrate. Don't squander it.
>
>
> Eyal
>
> PS:  availability on a new platform is not a reason to bump a version
> number. It's the "same" software, but built for another target, so same
> version as before. IMHO anyway.
>
>
>
> On 27/03/2023 20:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> > Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
> > purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
> > the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists is
> > that we are forever stuck at 7.x.
> >
> > We all know that the next version will not include any significant
> > innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the new
> > build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
> > processors on Windows (which has not been announced).
> >
> > Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
> > "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for an
> > infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
> > operating systems for personal productivity.
> >
> > This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
> > insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for the
> > marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that I
> > am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision on
> > the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have a
> > very short memory).
> >
> > Looking forward to your thoughts.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Nigel Verity]

The ability to run LibreOffice on just about every mainstream processor and OS 
strikes me as a major achievement which ought to be shouted from the hilltops. 
Debian does the same and is known as "The universal operating system". Perhaps 
LO should become known as "The universal office suite".

No other office suite comes close in that context. It surely warrants something 
better than a point release.

I like the concept of turning the number 8 on its side, though there would 
inevitably be comments about the concept of "infinity point one" when the 
subsequent release hits the streets..

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data​

From: Italo Vignoli 
Sent: 27 March 2023 18:11
To: TDF Devs ; TDF Marketing 
; TDF Design 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists is
that we are forever stuck at 7.x.

We all know that the next version will not include any significant
innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the new
build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
processors on Windows (which has not been announced).

Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
"infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for an
infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
operating systems for personal productivity.

This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for the
marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that I
am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision on
the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have a
very short memory).

Looking forward to your thoughts.
--
Italo Vignoli - LibreOffice Marketing & PR
mobile/signal +39.348.5653829 - email it...@libreoffice.org
hangout/jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: LO at SCALE in March?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Italo

Unfortunately, being located in the UK, I cannot put myself forward for SCALE. 
I would, in any case, need an awful lot of briefing beforehand before I felt 
sufficiently confident to address the detail of issues likely to be raised by 
the calibre of people attending SCALE.

I have to say that it comes as a surprise that US participation in LO is mainly 
limited to a large number of enthusiastic users. Is this a phenomenon peculiar 
to the US/Canada or representative of the entire world outside Europe? If the 
latter then perhaps a way needs to be found to identify supporters who may be 
able to act as regional "ambassadors", for want of a better term, using local 
languages to further promote active participation in the project.

Easy to come up with "blue sky" ideas like this, of course. I realise it would 
be a job and a half to implement such a thing. The fact remains though that 
there is an enormous pool of development skills in North America. There must be 
some way of tapping into it for the benefit of LO.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website<https://www.libreoffice.org>
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data​

From: Italo Vignoli 
Sent: 09 January 2023 16:06
To: Nigel Verity ; Mike Saunders 

Cc: Ilan Rabinovitch ; marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
; Bala 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: LO at SCALE in March?


Hi Nigel, we would love to have a US based community of LibreOffice volunteer 
advocates, but it looks like in the US we have a large number of users but we 
completely miss volunteers who show up to help the global project with 
activities such as staffing a booth at SCALE. TDF is the organization 
representing the LibreOffice community, and has a budget to help these 
activities to happen (for instance, we can reimburse travel and lodging 
expenses for events, and the production of swag for the booth). Unfortunately, 
the old volunteers coming from the OOo project have retired or have passed away 
too early, and nobody has shown up to replace them. We have had to sadly turn 
down similar opportunities at other US FOSS events during 2022, and we don't 
see how to solve the issue.

We would be happy to work with you and with other organizers of FOSS events in 
the US to attract volunteer advocates for LibreOffice. Any suggestion? Should 
we organize a video chat to discuss the topic? I would be happy to organize the 
video chat, inviting you and other people who can help us, at least with 
suggestions about actions to address the issue.

Does it sound feasible for you? In any case, thanks for your message, which 
shows that we have loyal users and followers in the US, and best regards, Italo

On 1/9/23 16:52, Nigel Verity wrote:

Hi Mike Is a representative of TDF the only option? I'm sure there are some top 
notch LO supporters and/or developers within a reasonable distance of SCALE. 
With solid briefing from TDF beforehand such manning of a table at the event 
could demonstrate well the nature of the LO project as truly collaborative 
rather than a quasi-proprietary product of TDF. Nige Mon Jan 09 15:00:48 
GMT+00:00 2023 Mike Saunders 
<mailto:mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>:
 Hi Ilan! On 09.01.23 15:40, Ilan Rabinovitch wrote: > > Hi Libre Office Team, 
Any interest in joining us in March? Thanks for the offer of a table! None of 
us in the TDF Team are in north America, so I don't think anyone can attend in 
March, I'm afraid. If something changes though, we'll let you know :-) Have a 
good event! Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: 
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Re: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: LO at SCALE in March?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike Is a representative of TDF the only option? I'm sure there are some top 
notch LO supporters and/or developers within a reasonable distance of SCALE. 
With solid briefing from TDF beforehand such manning of a table at the event 
could demonstrate well the nature of the LO project as truly collaborative 
rather than a quasi-proprietary product of TDF. Nige Mon Jan 09 15:00:48 
GMT+00:00 2023 Mike Saunders : Hi Ilan! 
On 09.01.23 15:40, Ilan Rabinovitch wrote: > > Hi Libre Office Team, Any 
interest in joining us in March? Thanks for the offer of a table! None of us in 
the TDF Team are in north America, so I don't think anyone can attend in March, 
I'm afraid. If something changes though, we'll let you know :-) Have a good 
event! Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: 
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Re: R: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're different" part of new LibreOffice website

[Nigel Verity]

James makes a very good point. If you have a problem with MS Office you go down 
a single route to a single POC to try and get it resolved. If you had different 
support organisations for each of Outlook, Teams, OneNote etc, then MS Office 
would be very unattractive - especially in the enterprise space.

A replacement solution based on LO and other open source applications would be 
greatly enhanced if such a single POC existed. It doesn't mean other projects 
need to be subsumed into TDF. Some collaboration and a common support portal 
would allow each to continue independently, but with shared benefits and 
incentives for co-operation.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: James Harking 
Sent: 30 December 2021 14:36
To: sophi 
Cc: TDF Marketing 
Subject: Re: R: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're 
different" part of new LibreOffice website

Hi Sophie,

What I'm trying to 'tease' out is that LibreOffice in its current form can
not be a replacement for Microsoft Office, but clearly it is central to
this. As an example I have never heard of Blue Mind. What would go a long
way in my opinion is some guidance from the Document Foundation on
solutions that can replace missing functionality that an
enterprise/institution would have if migrating to FLOSS 'office' software
to form strategic partnerships with partner projects to grow the FLOSS
alternatives in this space. This will undoubtedly increase the viability of
LibreOffice as well as help projects that could support goals to the
Document Foundation such as Project Libre, Betterbird and Joplin.This is
why I suggested previously that a working group with associated projects
would be beneficial for the whole of the ecosystem.

Currently to replace the totality of Microsoft Office 365 takes around 5 or
6 applications I suspect which is a difficult ask given that you can go to
one provider for a solution but if there is a recommended migration path
using a number of 'partner' projects then it is an easier sell.

Kind regards

On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 2:11 PM sophi  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le 30/12/2021 à 14:39, James Harking a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Here's hypothetical for you, I don't have direct contact with our desktop
> > team but I do have some sway in decision making.
> >
> > Let's say we are a company with around 1000 Windows desktops, we
> currently
> > use Microsoft Office 365 and generally are happy with it, however license
> > costs are relatively expensive and we have a concern over our data
> > portability and so we are looking at alternatives. We would not migrate
> > away from Windows as this would cause excessive work for little benefit.
> >
> > We use Outlook for mail, calendaring and contacts which are essential for
> > us, we could for the most part substitute Word for Writer, Excel for Calc
> > and Impress for Powerpoint. However we also use Teams internally for
> > communication, meetings and document storage. Also One Note is used for
> > quick individual note keeping. Microsoft Project is used by a small
> subset
> > of colleagues.
>
> You have dedicated open source tools for that, this is not LibreOffice
> job to do video conference or mail. See one of them for example
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluemind.net%2Fen%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C4e38d3cfa0b846033be908d9cba1e30d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637764718476922396%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=Lj%2F98WuBdG1zwwbLDBdBSCv7smzi%2FXoxzWb%2BCX2Kh4A%3Dreserved=0
>
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier so...@libreoffice.org
> GSM: +33683901545
> IRC: soph
> Foundation coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're different" part of new LibreOffice website

[Nigel Verity]

When I hear about these custom distributions developed by governments I sense 
that the source code never finds its way into the public domain. Consequently 
they are more likely to be examples of the exploitation of open source rather 
than the adoption of open source principles. Given its track record of 
surveillance and secrecy does anybody seriously believe that a Linux-based 
operating system developed by the Chinese government would be any less closed 
and proprietary than Microsoft?

Local and regional governments, along with their agencies, tend to lack the 
resources to maintain their own applications and operating system versions. 
Because of that I would be more encouraged to learn of 20 smaller 
administrations or organisations adopting LO and other open source applications 
than one monolithic government. It has to be better overall for the open source 
"movement" and its principles.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Paolo Debortoli 
Sent: 28 December 2021 09:01
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: R: Re: R: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're 
different" part of new LibreOffice website


Hi. My humble opinion. Many years ago a small municipality here migrated to 
LibreOffice saying that ms office provides a higher quality, but It wasn't 
necessary. Since then LibreOffice improved. I guess ecosystem and compatibility 
are a good issue too.
But first problem Is that many people are not aware of the problems and don't 
want to change.
Ms Is still more used than open source, but things are slowly changing. Not so 
many people use Skype today and even the EU commission has suggested signal 
instead of whatsapp. Many governments (e g. Holland) are integrating open 
source in their policies.
The french police uses a Linux distribuzion Gendbuntu on their pcs. The same Is 
happening in Russia and China.
By the way many open source are competitive and widely used such as Red Hat 
linux, Apache,  LibreOffice, mysql, but not only.
I guess yes, integration, compatibility and ecosystem made ms more competitive  
and we need to think about.
Paolo



>

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're different" part of new LibreOffice website

[Nigel Verity]

A feature table is great for providing an "at a glance" list of what LO does 
that MS Office doesn't. It has the unfortunate side-effect, though, of 
providing a list of features for MS to build into the requirements for their 
next version of Office, thereby nullifying that difference.

There are other aspects which are less easy for MS to plagiarise, however. Try 
contacting Microsoft to ask for a new feature to be implemented and see how far 
you get either (a) contacting the person who makes such decisions or (b) 
succeeding in having your request actioned. Compare that with LO where, in 
principle at least, you could implement that feature yourself, or canvas other 
users for support to get it implemented. That user responsiveness is something 
that MS are structurally incapable of replicating.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 29 November 2021 15:42
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas wanted for "How we're different" part of 
new LibreOffice website

Hi everyone,

The website team is working on a new design (see the website list for
details). One of the planned features on the front page is a "How we're
different" table, providing a quick comparison with other projects:

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpuBkMZz.pngdata=04%7C01%7C%7C467dc0bebd2548f04f0008d9b34ef1d6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637737973904436344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=JOEGywdC0FHbfaKysp%2FS2iMeyg1XbFPJThg2Z9dzUVM%3Dreserved=0

This could be an opportunity to show some things that LibreOffice can
do, that eg MS Office can't, or how LibreOffice is by far the most
actively developed successor to the OpenOffice.org project.

What do you think -- what should go in there?

--
Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Basic / Java / Python

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Boudi

I can see where you are coming from in championing the use of Python for LO 
scripting. I imagine you would agree that your suggestion is driven by the 
current popularity of Python and the number of programmers who use it at the 
moment. The problem with programming languages is that they move in and out of 
vogue. Python is pretty much top of the tree at the moment, but it wasn't 10 
years ago and probably won't be in 10 years time.

When you have an application like LO with a long history - and hopefully a long 
future ahead - it is probably not practical to introduce or deprecate scripting 
languages every few years. Basic is much maligned, unfairly in my view given 
how powerful the latest variants like VB and Gambas are, but it still has a 
large user base and is easy to learn for anybody with any prior programming 
experience. This is indeed the case with Python. While Basic would certainly 
not be the first choice of many, it is already in place so the advantages of 
having to make what must be some fairly big changes to the LO codebase would 
need to be considered very carefully.

If LO scripting were currently implemented in something with the opaqueness and 
complexity of C then I would be with you 100% but as it is actually implemented 
in one easy-to-learn language I might struggle to make the case for changing it 
to another, given the effort required to do so.

I stress I am not a developer for LO, so this is just my take. It must 
certainly be worth escalating for a more definitive view.

Regards

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Clocked Modular 
Sent: 26 November 2021 08:39
To: Marketing 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Basic / Java / Python

Dear all,

Am I wrong when I conclude that Python is widely adopted by the new
programmers crowd?
And if I'm not, is it then not wise to focus more on Python?
I suggest to make Python the standard for LO-scripting. Keep Basic only for
legacy reasons, and define a phaseout timeline. The same for Java.
Maybe that way we can get more involvement in development?
Probably you are already aware of 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpypi.org%2Fproject%2Fodfpy%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C01dc0d5d916b4fc8cd2608d9b0b85d50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637735128155142362%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=BZ1AJk0i6HJ1z0tTSbwN6GDd0wb2Ra7AMP3XJYKiu%2FQ%3Dreserved=0
 for
example.

Met vriendelijke groet,
With kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen.

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will, **in time,  stop** to use email. If you want to contact us and are
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Let's do awesome things! Get support for your projects and ideas from our budget

[Nigel Verity]

Hi

Following Mike's email of last week one idea springs to my mind

If I were to create a short presentation about the history, features and 
benefits of LibreOffice it would be very different to such a presentation 
created by anybody else given the same brief. There would be things I miss 
which somebody else includes and vice versa. Somebody who doesn't use Calc, 
say, as much as Writer and Impress would doubtless overlook some key Calc 
functionality. Etc, etc

How about creating a standard (but evolving) crowd-sourced presentation, along 
with speaking notes - translated into multiple languages - which could be used 
to enable a supporter to give a talk at conferences and other events? In many 
countries there are business networking groups where representatives from new 
and/or local businesses congregate to generate contacts and provide mutual 
advice with a view to developing it into a business opportunity. A 10 minute 
talk on LO would be well suited to that kind of forum.

Such a presentation would inevitably need to address the issue of MS Office 
compatibility, but primarily the aim would be to spread awareness and sell the 
idea of LO as the office suite of choice for businesses and other 
organisations, as well as for individuals.

>From my own experience as a very reluctant public speaker I know that having 
>comprehensive notes and slides that cover all the angles are a great 
>confidence booster. Using my own home-made presentation I would be afraid of 
>missing important items and leaving myself open to questions I cannot answer, 
>thereby undermining the very aim of the presentation. The availability of a 
>professional quality presentation, created by subject experts, would for me be 
>the difference between giving a presentation and not giving one. I imagine 
>other LO supporters may be in a similar situation.

Regards

Nige


 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 15 October 2021 09:47
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Let's do awesome things! Get support for your 
projects and ideas from our budget

Want to organise a local (or online) LibreOffice event? Need some
merchandise to boost your project or community? Then we can help you!
The Document Foundation, the non-profit behind LibreOffice, is backed by
contributions from ecosystem members and volunteers, as well as
donations from end-users. This helps us to maintain TDF, but we can do a
lot more too. And next year, we want to do a lot of projects again!

Each year, we set a budget that LibreOffice projects and communities can
use for financial support. Some examples:

* Booking a location, and travel refunds for a local event (eg a
translation sprint)
* Merchandise for community members, to use at events and conferences
* Infrastructure to start a new project (or help an existing one)

So if you have some ideas for a meetup, project or activity that could
benefit from financial help, let us know! We can also assist you in
other ways: our team members are there to help you, and enable you to do
exciting and interesting things.

You don't need to work out all the technical details right now - the
main thing is that we have an overview. To help us with planning, we
kindly ask you to send your ideas by the end of November, as we try to
prepare the 2022 annual budget during December.

You can send your proposal (with estimated costs) to
budg...@documentfoundation.org and we'll take a look. Of course, can't
guarantee that everything will be approved, but we'd love to hear your
ideas!

Further reading:

Travel: 
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.documentfoundation.org%2FTDF%2FPolicies%2FTraveldata=04%7C01%7C%7Cf1b7ae6190c44b34421e08d98fb8aa4a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637698845561409727%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=HZm0kKshZOzZH2cCAontOHYzXi2gWbXwNEZO%2BlPqOow%3Dreserved=0
Refunding: 
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Boudi

It is a good catchy slogan but I've a feeling it may only really "work" with 
open source insiders. I think that the irony of "Open Windows" will be lost on 
people who know little or nothing about the benefits of open source vs 
proprietary software.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Cor Nouws 
Sent: 24 April 2021 12:06
To: Clocked Modular ; Marketing 

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

Clocked Modular wrote on 24/04/2021 12:08:
> About owning your own data,
> "Open Source or Open Windows"?
> That is the question!

A nice one, Boudi ;)

Cheers,
Cor

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Visual Identity of LibreOffice Ecosystem

[Nigel Verity]

The aim should, I think, be to come up with a logo that is both distinctive and 
simple. The more lines and shapes included in a logo the longer it takes to 
assimilate in the brain, and become intrinsically linked to a brand or product. 
The inclusion of alphanumerics, even in a distinctive font, can lead to 
ambiguity and don't help with internationalisation. Think of the really 
successful logos - they are all very simple - the 4 coloured squares of 
Microsoft or the 4 interlinked circles of Audi. Compare them, at the other end 
of the spectrum, with the logos for Peugeot and Vauxhall cars - both of which 
need to be studied to even work out what it is you are looking at.

Nige







 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Italo Vignoli 
Sent: 30 March 2021 22:06
To: Tdf Marketing 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Visual Identity of LibreOffice Ecosystem

We have started brainstorming about the development of a visual identity
for the LibreOffice Ecosystem, to help the recognition of companies and
individuals developing products based on the LibreOffice Technology or
doing business around LibreOffice.

We would like to get community members' opinions about this idea. Having
a visual identity would have a positive effect, as it would help
recognizing LibreOffice Ecosystem members, and would help TDF marketing
in supporting the annoucements under a single umbrella.

We are open to other opinions, and before launching a contest - based on
the experience of the anniversary visual - for the development of a logo
we would like to understand if the community feels it appropriate to
have such a visual identity (based on the logo).

Discussion is open on this list until April 20, in order to be able to
provide a summary for the following BoD meeting on April 23.

Thanks, Italo

--
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Stickers with LibreOffice 7 branding for community events/promotions

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

Would they be suitable for placing inside a car window facing outwards - front 
or rear windscreen perhaps? I had an FSF sticker inside the front screen of my 
last car for a couple of years and noticed quite a few people taking a closer 
look in car parks, etc.

Sending them out singly probably doesn't make sense economically. Can a full 
size image be made available on line for local printing + laminating perhaps?

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 07 December 2020 14:48
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Stickers with LibreOffice 7 branding for 
community events/promotions

Hi everyone,

We have some new LibreOffice stickers with the latest branding:

https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.documentfoundation.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F12%2Flo7_stickers.jpgdata=04%7C01%7C%7Cacf0adc0ad234d628aa908d89abf4220%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637429493528410277%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=bloY5wjwQPA2cdbrbVSxRvLh9TtdyInqKMvEuiVBPAE%3Dreserved=0

If you want any for events/promotions/activities, let me know!
Obviously, in-person events can't generally take place in many countries
at the moment, but you could use them for online promotions in
native-language projects, like Marcin is doing on Polish social media,
for instance...

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The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Edition Matter

[Nigel Verity]

Doesn't this imply there are some unofficial and, thereby, untrustworthy 
editions in circulation?

Nige

> On 23 Oct 2020, at 06:44, Simon Phipps  wrote:
> 
> Taking on board all the concerns about not giving the impression of a
> weaker version, and if "no label" is really not an option, how about
> calling TDF's package "official edition"?
> 
> S.
> 
>> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 14:31 Marc Paré,  wrote:
>> 
>> Perhaps Italo could chime in and inform us if having "no label is not an
>> option". We have to be consistent in a marketing plan, whether short or
>> long-term.
>> 
>> But, for me, the preference would be to continue with no label if this
>> is an option, however, if a label is needed, "Community Edition" is what
>> I would prefer. From my perspective, there is no negative connotation,
>> the public will get exactly what it is, a version of LibreOffice built
>> by members of the volunteer community and used by the members of the
>> TDF/LibreOffice. I don't believe that new-comers to LibreOffice site
>> will see the "LibreOffice Community Edition" as a negative, as long as
>> our website messaging is clear on the TDF and LibreOffice Mission
>> Statements.
>> 
>> As for any commercial versions of LibreOffice, then "Powered by" is
>> still my preferred, regardless of any community label.
>> 
>> But, really, Italo should chime in and set us straight, again, and
>> inform us if going with no label is an option. There is nothing wrong
>> with going back on a marketing plan, but as long as we are being
>> consistent in our planning discussions. More members need to chime in on
>> this important discussion ... I am surprised that non of the board
>> members nor any of the implicated commercially-connected members are not
>> participating in this discussion that was called by Italo. Especially
>> when Italo has set a deadline date for the discussion and then
>> membership vote. More members need to be informed that this discussion
>> is taking place; just so that the membership all get to have their say.
>> 
>> Marc
>> 
>>> Le 2020-10-23 à 07 h 40, Justin Luth a écrit :
>>> +1 to what Uwe and Michael and Telesto have been saying.
>>> 
>>> Personal / Community are not accurate labels because they imply
>>> missing features. LibreOffice as we currently know it is full
>>> featured. By introducing these labels, you are signaling an intent to
>>> "dumb down" LibreOffice.
>>> 
>>> The current real distinction is around support.  So, using Linux
>>> terminology, a more accurate label would be LibreOffice Rolling verses
>>> LibreOffice LTS.  But that is geeky terminology, so for that reason it
>>> probably isn't appropriate.
>>> 
>>> Therefore since none of the suggested labels properly convey meaning,
>>> I too prefer the supposedly unavailable "no label" solution for TDF
>>> builds.
>>> 
>>> Justin
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10/21/20 11:52 AM, Uwe Altmann wrote:
 Hi
 
> Am 20.10.20 um 10:50 schrieb Michael Weghorn:
> 
> If "no label is not an option" (as stated by Italo), I'd currently
> prefer something like "TDF Edition" over "Personal Edition" or
> "Community Edition" as well, given the negative/misleading connotations
> the latter may result in.
 "no label is not an option" is Italos and some others - professional
 as I have to admit - option. But "no label" also still is an option -
 no decision made yet.
 
 And imho no label is the preferred option (as stated in past).
 Uwe Altmann
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Marc Paré
>> m...@marcpare.com
>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentreprise.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C9f6b42654f164356111908d87759d3c7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637390574974336407%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=EtMLvTjpe9e7FKAGYTbzeamR4KpjVEBQNSR4ZTNdv3Y%3Dreserved=0
>> parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>> parEntreprise.com Supports 
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Edition Matter

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

Although I cannot think of a suitable alternative I have slight reservations 
about the use of the term "community". It may be just a British thing but in 
the UK the term is slightly nuanced to mean "good but not the very best", e.g 
The community hall is often the venue for amateur entertainment, run by a panel 
of well-intentioned but usually inexperienced untrained volunteers.

With that background I feel that to many ears the "community edition" of 
LibreOffice may be judged to be a slightly inferior version - a bit like the 
difference between MS Office Home Edition and MS Office Professional.

Regards

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Italo Vignoli 
Sent: 13 October 2020 16:56
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Edition Matter

The commercial label is Enterprise, while "powered by..." can be part of
the product name. We should remember that we are discussing a label and
not a product name, which does not change and is LibreOffice.

The label is an attribute, with the objective of adding information to
the product name.

On 10/13/20 3:17 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
>
> I suggest we try to keep it as honest as possible. The membership should
> speak out on this item re: "edition".
>
> IMO, "Community Edition" is fine, and agree that this could be modified
> at a future date when the membership would review the edition labels;
> perhaps reviewed every 4-5 years or something of the like.
>
> We profess how we are a community and collective of many different
> language groups working on the project, whether it be coders, designers,
> translation, docs, etc. So, in my mind "community" is the exact
> description. It does not bring up the idea of setting any commercial
> ties, etc. If members outside of the community, users, decide to adopt
> LibreOffice, then they do so and enjoy the fruits of the wonderful
> software solution that LibreOffice brings to them.
>
> As for any commercial versions of LibreOffice, they (the people behind
> "commercializing" LibreOffice) should also be made to abide by a
> membership-decided label. I like the idea of "Powered by ..." label, not
> sure if this would infringe on any trademarks.
>
> But, by and large, should any organization wish to use the LibreOffice
> suite as we know, coming from the community, then no problem. Just that,
> at this point, no commercial support is built into the community project
> for such a beast, Having a robust list of commercial businesses,
> advertised on the LibreOffice website, that can help install LibreOffice
> for commercial usage, IMO, is pretty well an accepted solution to most
> who run businesses and search for commercial application solutions. In
> this day of age, most businesses are used to seeing a community
> opensource version of software with an alternate commercial version of
> the same for a price.
>
> So, for me, "Community Edition" is fine. We would also need to decide on
> the commercial label at the same time, of which, I prefer "Powered by ...".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Email Signature -- Project Suggestion

[Nigel Verity]

An excellent idea.

I use the web variant of Outlook, so I can do a brief instruction for setting 
up a signature block - next day or so.

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 16 September 2020 14:02
To: Marc Paré ; Marketing list 

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Email Signature -- Project Suggestion

Hi Marc,

This is a great idea! And we can do this quite soon I think. One way the
wider marketing community can help -- so everyone on this list -- is to
provide instructions for adding/changing email signatures.

In this way, we can have a blog post encouraging people to mention
LibreOffice in their signatures, with a few examples. Then underneath,
quick instructions for common email clients/servics. I can do
Thunderbird, ProtonMail and Google Mail... Who can help with others? eg:

* Outlook (desktop app and web version)
* Apple Mail
* Yahoo! Mail

If anyone is using one of those and can write a couple of lines
explaining how to change signatures (eg where the option is), that'd be
great -- thanks a lot!

Mike


On 13/09/2020 22:53, Marc Paré wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we are talking about ways to attract new people to the
> TDF/LibreOffice project, I would like to suggest we choose a day in the
> year where the marketing team would run a campaign encouraging people to
> add to their email signatures their support for the LibreOffice project.
> This could be a yearly recurring event run by the marketing team and
> where we could suggest some signature links or comments for people on
> our mailing lists to add to their signature (at the bottom of their
> emails).
>
> This in itself would be a good way to promote the LibreOffice project
> and inspire others to try and perhaps join in on the fun.
>
> For example, on most of my email aliases I have added some lines of
> support for LibreOffice (see below). Most of my contacts are now aware
> of LibreOffice and I must say that many of my contacts are now using
> LibreOffice either exclusively or in conjunction with MSOffice.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Update proposals for "Get involved" page

[Nigel Verity]

Personalising the various function streams is an excellent idea. We are too 
used to faceless corporations. It would be a breath of fresh air.

The very fact that there are over 200 million users could make the prospect of 
contributing a little daunting, and I also think that many potential 
contributors would find it difficult to imagine anything they do ever reaching 
an audience of that size. How about a high level graphic showing how a change 
proposed by "little old me" finds its way to so many users.

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 10 September 2020 10:57
To: Marketing list ; Website list 

Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Update proposals for "Get involved" page

Hello everyone,

One of our long-term goals at TDF is to grow the project and community,
as much as the userbase. Like, it's awesome having 200M+ users, but if
few people contribute back, it's just a pretty number. So I've been
looking at ideas to improve this page:

https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.libreoffice.org%2Fcommunity%2Fget-involved%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C0e5ca58b8e8e4cd9c1d908d855702e41%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637353287578721326sdata=CKIHgVQj8UY9y9%2FQ5ezpO5PrBLkPHzi%2FikuHawWmr7c%3Dreserved=0


IDEAS

1. For each sub-project, have a photo and name of a "contact person" (eg
Heiko for Design, Xisco for QA etc.) The goal here is to make the
sub-projects look more welcoming and friendly, and provide a place to
start for newcomers. Of course, we don't want these "contact people" to
be overloaded with questions from newcomers, but they can at least point
newcomers to the right channels (Telegram, mailing lists etc.)

2. For each sub-project, add some specific tasks that people can do. So
not just "join this community" (and then what?), but "join and get
started straight away by doing X, Y or Z"

3. And also for each sub-project, add links to interviews with community
members from the TDF blog. These often describe how someone got started
in the community, and their experiences.


What do you think? Are there other ways to improve the page? Thanks in
advance for all feedback!

--
Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Magazines to give away: "Discover LibreOffice" from 2018

[Nigel Verity]

I had a batch of these from Mike last year and left copies in the coffee shops 
and cafeterias on the university campus where I was working at the time. Over 
the following month or so, before most had disappeared, I saw somebody reading 
them almost every time I went for a break. Because the magazine is about 
nothing other than LibreOffice it suggests that it is a subject of specific 
interest, so the mags are clearly good for raising awareness.

Incidentally the DVDs were gone almost immediately so it would seem they still 
have value as well.

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 09 September 2020 13:18
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Magazines to give away: "Discover LibreOffice" 
from 2018

Hello everyone,

We have around 130 "Discover LibreOffice" magazines to give away. They
look like this (albeit the 2018 version):

https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sparkhaus-shop.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F12%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2Fs%2Fe%2Fse37_libreoffice_uk_shop.pngdata=02%7C01%7C%7C48b42193ab184ce8b9bb08d854ba9f64%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637352507808110151sdata=Z6tDtP9QFT5I7HetJIxPtIR7rNtEi8CC7euRfoHTPRs%3Dreserved=0

Each magazine includes an introduction to LibreOffice, tutorials on the
main components, and extra articles about ODF, migrations, the community
etc. The included DVD has LibreOffice 6.1 and various extras.

So they're a bit old, but still potentially very useful. We'd like to
get the magazines out into communities around the world -- schools, user
groups etc. -- especially where internet access may not be 100%
reliable, so printed content and the DVD is especially useful.

If anyone wants some, please email me with details and I'll put them in
the post!

--
Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Bringing younger people/students into our community

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

These are all great ideas. I think, though, it's important to take a step back 
first and consider how LibreOffice must appear to a young and/or relatively 
inexperienced potential contributor.

It's a huge and complex application. Getting to grips with the code is a 
daunting prospect, even for someone like me who's been coding off and on for 
over 30 years. For the newcomer, I can well imagine their feeling they couldn't 
possibly make a useful contribution. Consequently, it is surely essential to 
highlight right from the start all the many ways that people can contribute 
beyond coding, and how "start small" is the way everybody gets involved. 
Perhaps the videos from experienced contributors can emphasise the important 
role that even small contributions can play in developing and supporting the 
project.

Cheers

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 21 August 2020 13:52
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Bringing younger people/students into our 
community

Hello,

Over the years we've seen various young people join our projects and
community, and their enthusiasm for LibreOffice and FOSS has been great
to see. We'd like to encourage even more to get involved, so here are a
few ideas I've been thinking about -- feedback very welcome!

* Set up a dedicated community channel (eg Telegram group) for younger
contributors. Needs to have a good name that's not patronising. Maybe
something with "next generation"? Ideaas:
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wordhippo.com%2Fwhat-is%2Fanother-word-for%2Fyoung_people.htmldata=02%7C01%7C%7C9cca20d780f9408e6ee608d845d12f19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637336112029645168sdata=LJl9ZVcZf9p5KPSvCZ2O9TImytHss9M9mVuPLiH9ldE%3Dreserved=0

* Do more in-depth video/audio interviews with younger contributors and
TDF members. The challenge here is that we don't always know someone's
age, but we can reach out and ask

* Build these into success stories, showing how participating in a FOSS
project has many advantages - leading towards studies/jobs

* Prepare an article/video about how LibreOffice is useful in
schools/unis, looking at certain features, options and extensions
particularly geared to education. Then encourage readers/viewers to join
our community

* Take advantage of the popularity of Python amongst younger coders.
Make a video showing how to write Python macros in LibreOffice - more
newcomer-friendly than the wiki page:
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.documentfoundation.org%2FMacros%2FPython_Design_Guidedata=02%7C01%7C%7C9cca20d780f9408e6ee608d845d12f19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637336112029650159sdata=YDDiFJ09cPyWNuW%2FeOaeUsToJxTJOL3gmuTwJv%2FEN3w%3Dreserved=0

* Organise an on-line virtual meetup for younger contributors, to answer
questions about the project and community. We probably can't say
"limited to people X years old", but try to make sure younger people who
are already active in LO are available to chat with newcomers

* Some more ideas/experiences in this video:
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.libreplanet.org%2Fu%2Flibreplanet%2Fm%2Fengaging-young-people-how-to-include-positive-youth-participation-in-our-free-software-community%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C9cca20d780f9408e6ee608d845d12f19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637336112029650159sdata=u4D3i4ljFpnC4xD3QVBAbUMhmZkZG%2Fkzm72a%2Fet4Myk%3Dreserved=0

What do you think?

--
Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Polish community poll results

[Nigel Verity]

It's both interesting and reassuring to note that there is considerably greater 
resistance to using open document formats than there is to using LibreOffice. 
I'm not sure what there is that anyone can do about that. The fact that MS 
Office formats are proprietary and ODF is not doesn't have any impact on most 
people. Whenever I've tried to push the adoption of ODF, the usual response is 
"There  already is a universal standard - MS Office". Obviously it's not 
"universal" but you can see what they mean.

In my experience most documents sent to me - regardless of format - are to 
read, not to update. That is a strong case for using PDFs instead of MSO 
formats but, again, try getting organisations to adopt that approach. 
Generating a PDF is another procedural step, and it can present a version 
control problem relative to its source document.

I may be imagining this, but didn't OpenOffice.org at one time ask you select 
your default document format on first use? While I think ODF should always be 
the standard for LibreOffice there perhaps needs to be a level or realism in 
order make it clear to new or potential users that they can continue to use MSO 
formats if that suits their workflows best.

Regards

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 29 May 2020 14:22
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Polish community poll results

Thanks for sharing, Marcin! When you have some documentation ready, let
me know and I can share on our blog...


On 29/05/2020 14:36, Marcin Popko wrote:
> Hello!
> I've prepared poll for Polish LibreOffice users - I got 30 answers, not a 
> lot, but it’s new fanbase and it shows us a little about comunnity in Poland.
>
> Most interesting results:
> 1. 93,3% use LibreOffice at home, 53,3% at work!
> 2. Over 80% rates LibreOffice more than 8 (in scale 1-10; 1=bad, 10=best)
> 3. 90% use LibreOffice for more than 5 years and love it's free software.
> 4. 40% of people avoid open document formats because:
> - Others have trouble reading them.
> - Because of other people who have to open such a document
> - At work, I need the greatest possible compatibility with MS Office
> - If I'm supposed to share this somewhere, people look at it and they don't 
> know what it is.
> - At work, I can't always. Someone's asking me for a different format.
> - to be compatible with other office packages
> - Because I need them to be compatible with other offices
> - I use Libre to open files created on other programs
> - because sometimes I send documents "outside" and I'm afraid other users 
> will have a problem with them
> - Due to the requirements of the manager
> - Sometimes I have to send a file to people using only MS Office
> 4. Most of people wants to hear more tips and support in Polish language. 
> There is lack of localized documentation and basic tutorials for modern 
> versions of LibreOffice. I work a little with translating documentation, I'm 
> going to prepare site which can be accessed directly from LibreOffice -> Help 
> -> User Guide. In LO with polish langpack it used to lead to page not found 
> error, now blank site is ready to be filled, will add some stuff there: 
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocumentation.libreoffice.org%2Fpl%2Fpolska-dokumentacja%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C380e6d6471b4416a8db708d803d37bb1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637263554128970906sdata=UetwS801mGF2stu%2BaEdbLuqAhsHGSdNwGN9iAqV8rNg%3Dreserved=0
>
> I attach link to anwers and results (note: in polish), I have no idea how to 
> translate whole site for you to English.
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fforms%2Fd%2F1KgiK4MumTa11LyaIoisZoMBNInZm3LFQXYpYBg4jrW4%2Fviewanalyticsdata=02%7C01%7C%7C380e6d6471b4416a8db708d803d37bb1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637263554128980896sdata=5gBGOefvGIF1HcBDZ4AeUBiO9iul%2B0cxGR0%2FxPb9TsE%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> Pozdrawiam / Regards
> Marcin Popko
>
>
> tel. +48661505678
>

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Polls/surveys on Twitter

[Nigel Verity]

Do you always save your documents using open formats?

If not, what percentage of your documents are saved using proprietary formats?

If not why not (employer policy, interoperability with other people, etc)?

Nige


From: kainz.a 
Sent: 07 May 2020 09:24
To: Mike Saunders 
Cc: Marketing list 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Polls/surveys on Twitter

* Where do you use LibreOffice? (Home, office, School, University)

* How old are you

* Where do you need LibreOffice to run (Windows, Linux, iOS, Android,
Browser)

* For which feature would you donate

Am Do., 7. Mai 2020 um 09:55 Uhr schrieb Mike Saunders <
mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I've thought about running some polls/surveys on our Twitter account.
> They're a good way to engage with followers and get feedback. On the
> other hand, we need to be careful about the polls we run -- for
> instance, we shouldn't do polls about features people may want, if we
> have no plans/resources to implement them.
>
> So I have a few ideas:
>
> * Where do you use LibreOffice? (Home, work, both)
>
> * What component of LibreOffice do you use most? (Writer, Calc etc.)
>
> * For how long have you been using LibreOffice?
>
> What do you think? Any other suggestions, or anything we should avoid?
>
> --
> Mike Saunders, Marketing & PR
> The Document Foundation
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas for 10,000th tweet?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

How about using it as summary of LibreOffice - what it is, its origins, an idea 
of how many people and organisations are believed to use it, its benefits vs 
proprietary software, etc.

Obviously a lot of people receiving the tweet will already know most of that 
stuff, but perhaps a request for everyone to retweet it as widely as possible 
could help spread the word.

Cheers

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 13 April 2020 13:04
To: Marketing list 
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Ideas for 10,000th tweet?

Hello!

At the time of writing, we've tweeted 9,654 times from @LibreOffice. Any
ideas for the 10,000th? :-)

--
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The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Roland, Mike


That is a very interesting point. Perhaps the challenge is to create a 
promotional video which appeals to both corporates and private individuals in 
equal measure.


Liberation and social responsibility should certainly appeal to individuals, 
but any justification for using LO which strays into the territory of 
"politics" may be of less appeal to companies. There will surely be 
decision-makers who have a social conscience but in the main I would suggest 
that a company which selects its business applications based on ethics rather 
than functionality is not doing its job properly. I don't necessarily applaud 
that standpoint but I think it is a fact all the same.


In short, I don't think LO should be promoted like those adverts we see 
proclaiming "buy our product because x% of our profits go to charity". LO is 
world-class software that justifies its existence on functionality alone. I 
think the challenge is to get the ethics message across without its being seen 
as a "bolt on" to increase its appeal further.


Regards


Nige



From: Roland Hummel 
Sent: 15 April 2019 21:47
To: Nigel Verity; Mike Saunders; marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Nigel and Mike,

On 4/15/19 2:43 PM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a while. I 
> have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not a lot of 
> information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is the 
> availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream rather than 
> as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to show these 
> would entail almost a total re-recording.
>
> There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that just 
> updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact, is the 
> cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be changed? 
> Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.
>

looking for other LO promo material I found "Trailer Curso LibreOffice
Ecuador" [1]. I don't understand Spanish language but a friend
translated the essential parts for me and this video describes how FLOSS
like LO liberates the IT of countries like Ecuador so as I tried to
explain in my last mail:
An update of the official LO promo trailer that is a little bit more
"inspiring" the people why using LO has something to do with liberation
and social responsibility in digital age would justify time and money
needed for the update a lot.

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=8wLGesOotrg


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a while. I 
have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not a lot of 
information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is the 
availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream rather than 
as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to show these would 
entail almost a total re-recording.

There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that just 
updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact, is the 
cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be changed? 
Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.

Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 15 April 2019 09:26
To: Roland Hummel; marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

On 15/04/2019 10:21, Roland Hummel wrote:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3KC0ZdcA6s8data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb9d02382f86b45d1ebf208d6c17c1e0f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636909136151711601sdata=KHuguMoLMkGVr3dgmEHGRwPm0b6%2FnYhyexggwxspkg0%3Dreserved=0
>>
>> Does that help?
>
> thank you, this looks promising, thank you!

Glad to hear it! Also, that video is three years old now, which is an
age in the software world of course, so I plan to make a new version at
some point. If you (or indeed anyone else) have any feedback or
suggestions for a newer version, just let me know!

Mike


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Default Currency for Nigeria is divisive

[Nigel Verity]

Onyeibo highlights an important issue which I'm sure might never have occurred 
to many of us, whether in the context of LO or anything else. There are many 
countries around the world where the "nation" does not define the lowest level 
of cultural or linguistic sub-division. Even in Europe there is Switzerland as 
an example.

Perhaps everyone contributing to LO should be asked to consider their own 
country/region to see if there are similar local issues which LO could address 
better.

Nige


From: Onyeibo Oku 
Sent: 22 February 2019 01:37
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] The Default Currency for Nigeria is divisive

Good morning everyone,

Recently, I tried to configure locale and Currency settings in
Libreoffice 6.2 to reflect my nationality.  I ended up with mixed-
feelings.  I was happy to see that the developers/designers considered
Nigeria.  However, the currency tag or short-description there
presented only one tribe in the multilingual country.  Nigerians are
sensitive to issues suggesting that one tribe has national privileges
over the rest.  Which is why an entry (currency) bearing "NGN
 Hausa (Nigeria)" is bad marketing for Nigeria.

Nigeria has three major tribes (with associated languages) namely:
Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba.  To avoid conflict between these tribes (and
others), vendors tend to present their product messages using the
national Language (English). Otherwise, all major languages will be
represented.

I suggest that the LibreOffice team should consider replacing the word
"Hausa" on that entry with "English" or provide entries for other
tribes as well.  This issue bothers on the Currency symbol and its
associated tag and not about Language settings.

I hope my observation is not convoluted

Regards
Onyeibo


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] plea to remove in-app advertising from LibreOffice

[Nigel Verity]

Good idea.

There is the "About LibreOffice" item at the bottom of the "Help" menu, but 
that doesn't elaborate on the fact that LO is open source without following a 
link to the website.

An "About" item is pretty much standard on many applications - both open source 
and proprietary. My guess is that not many people ever read it as they already 
"know" what it says without having to read it.

Perhaps the "About" item should be removed from the bottom of the "Help" menu 
(indicating perhaps the lowest priority of any menu item) and prominently 
placed instead on the File menu as suggested, only with a far more compelling 
item name than "About". Plus, of course, more information on the dialog about 
how the project is developed and funded without having to branch off to the 
website.

Nige


From: Tim Lungstrom 
Sent: 02 February 2019 10:08
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org; nigelver...@hotmail.com
Cc: LibreOffice-NA.US - Webmaster
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] plea to remove in-app advertising from 
LibreOffice


> On 30/01/2019 06:21, Justin Luth wrote:
>> Someone on ask.libreoffice.org wrote:
>>
>> “Lately, in LibreOffice 6.1.2.1 I get a nag window on top asking me to
>> get involved. Are you trying to become obnoxious windows-like software?
>> How do I get rid of that thing?” This succinct post is very revealing,
>> and perfectly mirrors my own initial and ongoing impressions.
I have not been following these posts in this thread. Yet, I wonder what
the user is talking about.

I have not seen the "nag message" while using different versions for 64
bit DEB based install.

I now use 6.1.4.2.  I have not looked into a newer version, if it has
been released yet.  I still not have seen the "get involved" nag message.

I have been using LibreOffice since the last release candidate before
the first official release of LibreOffice – version 3.3.0.4 RC in
October 2011 and replaced it with 3.3.1.2, of something like that.

I have been promoting LibreOffice Office Suite as a replacement to keep
buying newer and newer versions of MS Office – 2003 suite was last
version I have. If there is a nag message, or something that could be
thought it is a nagging message, then I would have seen it.  Of course
some people would call the message that there is a newer version of
LibreOffice as a nag message.

Well, instead of the idea of a nag message, could you add a new menu to
the File/Edit/View menu bar.  If possible, add a menu like “More Info”
to be after the “Help” menu.  Then you can have links to various
information that is not part of “getting help” options.  Then you can
have a link like “Get Involved” in the Help menu.  This way when a user
looks into the various menu options, you get more options that may link
to the various pages for the info about LibreOffice, the Document
Foundation, Marketing Info, Volunteering, and any other thing like
that.  No Nagging.  No popups except telling the user there is a newer
version of LibreOffice or the extensions you use has an upgrade.

>> Justin - volunteer developer, promoter, user-support  (who is damaged in
>> each of these capacities by this adware), and self-appointed end-user
>> advocate.
>>
>>
>> [1] It is completely unprofessional. Speaking about the “get involved”
>> pop-up, Michael Meeks writes that “No vendor (or in-house team)
>> providing an actually supported version would show this to their users”.
>>
>>
>> P.S. Sorry for not realizing that the ESC decision to remove GetInvolved
>> from 6.1.5 Stable should have been confirmed by other bodies before
>> being acted on.

Well, the P.S. states 6.1.5.x will not have the "nag" to Get Involved,
is great, but it seems to be removed in the 6.1.4.2 version.


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] plea to remove in-app advertising from LibreOffice

[Nigel Verity]

When I first saw this issue this morning, my initial reaction was to agree that 
perhaps a request for donations appearing within the application is 
inappropriate but, on reconsideration, I've changed my mind.

Whenever I have been promoting the use of LO, the advantages of its open source 
heritage are usually acknowledged but the fact that it can be downloaded and 
installed without any financial outlay is almost always the deciding factor. 
Once the "sale" is made, it is likely that many users don't really consider how 
LO is developed while continuing to enjoy its benefits.

There is a big difference between displaying an unsolicited 3rd party ad in an 
application, such as is common with phone apps, and a tasteful reminder of how 
LO is funded and developed. In fact I would not even consider the latter to be 
an ad at all.

The difference between an "informative reminder" and a "nagging ad" is probably 
a combination of appropriate, considered wording and the way in which the 
reminder appears - frequency, what part of LO usage, etc.

I have to admit I was staggered to learn that Thunderbird gets more funding 
than LO. Perhaps looking closely as Thunderbird's funding methods could be 
informative.

Nige


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 30 January 2019 09:16
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] plea to remove in-app advertising from 
LibreOffice

Hi Justin,

Thanks for raising this. I just want to offer my perspective:

I closely monitor the social media channels for LibreOffice and TDF
(Twitter with 23,000 followers, Facebook with 54,000 page likes, Google+
with 16,000 followers), along with Reddit and other sites.

I've read many hundreds of feedback messages across those channels since
the release of LibreOffice 6.1, and haven't seen a *single* complaint
(or even mention) relating to the "Get involved" infobar. (Of course,
there's a chance I've missed something, especially over the Christmas
break, but I hope you see my point!)

Now, that's not to deny that some people may find it a bit naggy. But I
just want to add those data points -- that it doesn't seem to be
bothering the vast majority of users.

Another data point: the infobar in the app brings around 800-900 users
every day to the "Get involved" page on our website. Of course, we
cannot easily measure how many of those visitors become active
contributors in the project, but it's a good start IMO.

And now my personal view: I think we are absolutely right to keep it.
Even if a few people find it naggy (and again, given that I've seen no
mention of it on social media, I don't think it's many), I think it's
extremely important that we remind people: this software doesn't just
happen by magic. It's the hard work of a community and ecosystem
members. If you want it to keep improving, contribute back.

One thing I *do* see a lot on social media is a rather entitled attitude
of "LibreOffice should do X" or "Why hasn't LibreOffice got Y?". I
gently remind those people that changes and improvements only happen if
someone steps up to do them :-) So a very occasional reminder in the app
is fine by me. People are getting a massively feature-rich office suite
for completely free, after all -- they should bear in mind who makes it!

Mike




On 30/01/2019 06:21, Justin Luth wrote:
> Someone on ask.libreoffice.org wrote:
>
> “Lately, in LibreOffice 6.1.2.1 I get a nag window on top asking me to
> get involved. Are you trying to become obnoxious windows-like software?
> How do I get rid of that thing?” This succinct post is very revealing,
> and perfectly mirrors my own initial and ongoing impressions.
>
>
> First, note the user perception of this new “feature”. It is classified
> as naggy. It is not seen as a legitimate request for help, but as an
> untargeted and intrusive irritant.
>
> Secondly, it is totally unwanted. This user terms it as obnoxious, and
> references the disrespectful and heavy-handed Windows attitude that has
> driven so many of us to FOSS in the first place.
>
> And that all leads to the obvious reaction of “how can I never see this
> again.” Seeing it once is already too much, and every 90 days is not an
> improvement.
>
>
> Do we really want to market LibreOffice as yet another piece of
> unprofessional[1] beggarware? Everyone already acknowledges that
> “GetInvolved” irritates us, but now imagine the scenario where someone
> has donated to LibreOffice and a week later the donate message pops up!
> That will feel extremely offensive!
>
> Having places (like help - get involved/donate/about) where the user can
> discover and actively seek out ways to support LibreOffice is fine, but
> intentionally irritating the user base is sure to back-fire. Please, let
> us remove the infobar advertisements before they cause too much damage.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Justin - volunteer developer, promoter, user-support  (who is damaged in
> each of these capacities by this adware), and 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Content marketing workshop: notes and ideas

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Mike

It strikes me that the "personas" are the fundamental step. If you don't who 
you are targeting then all the other outreach techniques are directionless and, 
therefore, pretty much useless.

I've often read blogs and other articles describing people's attempts to 
convert users from proprietary products to FLOSS alternatives. That is always 
going to be an uphill struggle as you will probably need a "killer" feature or 
attribute to persuade people away from a tool they probably know very well. 
Startups on the other hand have no legacy baggage, they're usually populated by 
people open to new ideas and, crucially, money is generally in very short 
supply. This has got to be fertile ground not only for FLOSS applications like 
LO but also for free operating systems. The key has got to be making contact 
before the details of IT infrastructure have been decided.

In the UK the data from the company registration agency (Companies House) is 
freely available, so it should be possible to identify new enterprises at a 
very early stage in their formation. Do you have a feel for whether there is a 
similar situation in the US and the rest of the EU?

Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 26 November 2018 10:55
To: Marketing list
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Content marketing workshop: notes and ideas

Hello everyone,

A couple of weeks ago I attended a great "content marketing" workshop in
Munich. As one of the goals of TDF is to share and spread information,
I'm pasting my notes here! There are various tips and ideas, and we can
discuss how to implement them to promote LibreOffice and FOSS:


OVERVIEW

* Traditional marketing approach is: talk about how great a product is

* Content marketing approach is different: create useful or entertaining
articles, tutorials, infographics, videos, that ALSO raise awareness of
a product (usually at the end)

* Example: 
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.makeup.comdata=02%7C01%7C%7C429dc69e708a405e4a6a08d6538dcc0a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636788265804062875sdata=DAkPyErYiqZQ6uLBwp3%2FQIOryVBPTPuE3rnjjtvHY7k%3Dreserved=0
 -- looks like a blog with beauty tips
and trends, but leads people to buy products

* Another classic example: "Will it Blend" videos -- people watch them
NOT because they're interested in blenders, but because it's fun:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlAl28d6tbkodata=02%7C01%7C%7C429dc69e708a405e4a6a08d6538dcc0a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636788265804062875sdata=i4pfltbwxTwsShX8DYC9%2F65FtXfPfWXA%2BuvuuD66J8w%3Dreserved=0
 -- but the videos go viral,
good for brand awareness

* Steps to take (1) entertain/inform/generate buzz, (2) raise awareness
of product, (3) then sell the product


AUDIENCE RESEARCH AND TARGETING

* Create "personas" for typical users -- invent a couple of typical
users of the product (age, gender, job, income, hopes, fears...) Give
them names and use stock pictures to make them seem real!

* Then think of how to reach these people -- what websites do they use?
How do they get recommendations? What may put them off trying a new product?

* Customer journey to buying/using a product: awareness, interest,
consideration, purchase, loyalty

* Each step requires different content (for instance, for
"consideration", use reviews or customer testimonials)

* Test new content ideas for 3 - 6 months. Think of holidays, and what
people are doing at different times of the year. Build on "Today is the
day of X"...


VIDEOS

* Use different videos for different audiences. Very short videos for
Facebook and Twitter, longer for YouTube channel

* So for LibreOffice "New Features" videos, consider breaking them up
for social media

* For Facebook, ALWAYS upload videos directly there -- don't just put
YouTube links! Facebook wants more content for itself

* Average video attention span on Facebook: 17 seconds

* Some people watch videos with sound turned off (eg at work or on the
train), so use subtitles appropriately

* Consider audience: slower videos for older users (or children)

* Consider devices: smart TVs, smartphones...


WRITING

* Humans generally lose attention with sentences longer than approx. 17
words

* Words like "sale" seem overused, but they are still very effective and
the brain perceives them as a picture

* Text is important, but the web (especially social media) is moving
towards text and pictures, then videos

* Infographics are effective, but don't use too much text -- social
media platforms recognise text-heavy images and don't promote them as much

* Useful website: canva.com for creating viral images and infographics

* Another website for checking (German) text quality:
wortliga.de/textanalyse


--
Mike Saunders, Marketing & PR
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Nigel Verity]

Drew/Mike

That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.

It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how popular 
the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure this can be 
automated without being intrusive

Nige

From: Drew Jensen 
Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Howdy Mike,

I will reply in line.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity 
mailto:nigelver...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be 
selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the 
user permits experimental features.

Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other versions 
of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected are still 
experimental.


This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I 
can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a 
decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the 
notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle 
between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as old 
and stayed as that look is).

Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the top 
level View menu.

When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed. The 
Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all tabs, 
there is  also a tab specific menu.

The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available from 
the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level menu also.

It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the 
Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions turn 
on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs drop down 
menu.

Best wishes,

Drew


Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
mailto:mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org<mailto:marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

[Nigel Verity]

Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be 
selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the 
user permits experimental features.

This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I 
can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a 
decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the 
notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle 
between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

Regards

Nige

From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Notebookbar out of Experimental

[Nigel Verity]

Hi

I am a newcomer to the LibreOffice marketing group so, first, greetings to 
everybody.

Now that the Notebook bar is no longer going to be an experimental feature 
perhaps the question of the default setting needs to be addressed.

When encouraging somebody to migrate from MS Office, if the first configuration 
they see is the classic menu bar then I can well imagine the reaction being 
that LO is "old fashioned". Defaulting to the Notebookbar should create an 
instant feeling of familiarity for such users. However, if that were to become 
the default we would be reinforcing the sense that LO is an MS Office clone, 
without emphasising the configurability advantage that LO has.

A lot of people still prefer the classic menu bar and find it far more 
intuitive. I am one of them. Perhaps on first run after installation the user 
could be presented with a welcome screen which illustrates the visual 
differences between the two menu types, and allows the user to select one or 
the other to be their personal default from that point onwards.

Just a thought.

Nige


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[libreoffice-marketing] Introduction

[Nigel Verity]

Hi

I have just registered with the marketing group, so I thought I'd introduce 
myself.

I am Nigel Verity from Shropshire, England but called "Nige" by everybody. I've 
done a few HPR episodes under the alias of "Beeza".

I've worked in a variety of fields including diplomacy, commerce, software 
development, tech writing and running art shows. Of these my longest spell was 
over 20 years in the defence industry developing and troubleshooting logistics 
tools. Right now I am self-employed, doing ad hoc tech writing, website 
development and IT consultancy - the latter specialising in simplifying 
business processes and reducing costs. Promoting the use of FLOSS plays a big 
part of that, though the "Free Libre" part is sometimes harder to push than the 
free (cost) and open source aspects.

Making the case for LibreOffice is usually the easiest "sell" as it does not 
require users to adopt a different operating system. To be honest, though, I am 
never entirely happy saying that LibreOffice is "just like" MS Office because 
that gives the impression it is an MS Office clone, which we all know it 
clearly isn't.

I would like to get involved with marketing LibreOffice because I would like to 
be able to develop a different angle showing not just the areas of functional 
overlap with MS Office but also differentiators to make the case for 
LibreOffice in its own right.

Cheers

Nige

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