[Marxism] Russian Folk Art
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Here is an amazing bit of “folk art” I just captured on Facebook. What’s amazing about it is that it turns all the impossible contortions that Russian state and mainstream media, and segments of Russian social media have been going through, over the past week, to befuddle the Russian public as to who might have shot down Flight MH17 (as described here, for example, by the indispensable Peter Pomerantsev) on their head, attributing them instead to US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki. In the past couple months, Psaki has been elevated by the “pro-Russian” crowd (meaning the same state/”grassroots” media synergy behind the contortionist act) into a Great Satan figure, emblematic of American stupidity and ignorance. Read the rest here: http://therussianreader.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/russian-folk-art/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel is being defeated in Gaza as it was in Lebanon,
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == -Original Message- From: Andrew Pollack via Marxism Finally there's the question of Resistance supporters such as Hezbollah, Syria and Iran, whose support is limited to training and material aid, and certainly has nothing to do with a strategy to mobilize the Arab and Iranian masses. And of course at the moment all three are involved in genocidal attacks on the Syrian component of those masses. The idea of these three along with the Palestinians as the Resistance or the Rejectionists is completely laughable. It is true that Iran has in the past provided weaponry to Hamas, and that Hezbollah's past conflicts with Israel, particularly in 2006, were at least in part motivated by opening another front to help Palestine. The Syrian regime has nothing to do with this dynamic; it has spent decades slaughtering the Palestinian resistance, assassinating its leaders, trying to destroy and take over its organisations, and while allowing some to have headquarters in Syria, making damned sure, with an iron fist, that none of them ever got anywhere near the occupied Golan border to do any resistance there. Israel fully understands and appreciates this and has said so clearly. As for support to the Palestinians in Gaza, states alleged to be part of an imaginary pro-imperialist or perhaps non-rejectionist (whatever that means) camp, such as Qatar, have certainly provided far more concrete aid than the Syrian regime. As for Iranian support, it was cut off in 2012 when Hamas made the principled decision to support the Syrian uprising, citing the fact that the Syrian people were undergoing a struggle similar to their own. Iran put its sectarian/geopolitical alliance with the Syrian counterrevolution ahead of any support to Palestinian resistance. This also strained Hamas-Hezbollah relations, being on opposite sides in Syria, but Hamas made sure to try to maintain a working relationship with Hezbollah inside Lebanon, in the interests of the safety of the Palestinian refugees, who largely live in similar areas to Hezbollah's Shia base. But as Andy said, even Hezbollah is irrelevant to the situation now; with both Iranian troops and Hezbollah fully engaged in the main counterrevolutionary war in the region in defense of tyranny, the time for Israel to launch another savaging of Gaza was perfect. World attention focused on ISIS' sudden surge in Iraq also made the time perfect. As people joke now, Hezbollah will come to the aid of the Palestinian resistance via Homs, Aleppo, Damascus and perhaps even Iraq, where Hezbollah was rumoured to be sending some forces to fight ISIS (and the Sunni rebellion) on behalf of its Iranian master. That's a pretty long road to Palestine. Let's be perfectly clear - all the talk of resistance in the region is a giant pot of shit. The one and only resistance is Hamas and the Palestinians it leads and its allies. The other alleged members of this ex-group were fairweather friends at best. And whatever its faults, of which there are plenty, Hamas' decision to back the Syrian uprising represents something that would have been good to see from the Cubans, Venezuelans etc - seeking allies among the masses rather than from among the class enemy. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What's new at Links: Israel's war on Gaza, MH17, Venezuela:'Trotsky vs Stalin'?, Marta Harnecker on El Salvador, Podemos, James Kilgore
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What's new at Links: Israel's war on Gaza, MH17, Venezuela:'Trotsky vs Stalin'?, Marta Harnecker on El Salvador, Podemos, James Kilgore * * * Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 You can also follow Links on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LinksSocialism or on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10865397643 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to linkssocial...@gmail.com *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. *Comments welcome on all articles *Return daily for new articles * * * (Updated July 23) Asia-Pacific socialists: 'Stop Israel's war crimes in Gaza!' http://links.org.au/node/3954 *Joint statement by Asia-Pacific left organisations* July 23, 2014 -- Israeli military forces have escalated their offensive on the Gaza Strip. Israeli warplanes have increasingly targeted houses, civilian-populated areas and civilian facilities in the Gaza strip. Israeli warplanes have destroyed a number of houses while their residents were inside, without any prior warnings, killing and wounding many Palestinian civilians. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3954 Ukraine: MH17 tragedy shows need for peace, not warmongering http://links.org.au/node/3967 */Green Left Weekly/* editorial July 19, 2014 -- The apparent shooting down of Malaysia Airlines passenger flight MH17 is an unspeakable tragedy and a criminal act that has sent shock waves around the world. /Green Left Weekly/ offers our condolences to the families of all its victims. Nobody yet knows who was responsible for this crime, despite Western media and governments pointing the finger at either the rebel forces in Ukraine's east, which the West accuses Russia of arming, or the Russian military itself... Yet many Western governments, with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott joining in, are exploiting this tragedy and using it to escalate rhetoric and tensions with Russia, raising the prospect of the war expanding. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3967 'Do unto apartheid Israel what you did to apartheid South Africa': trade unions protest attack on Gaza http://links.org.au/node/3959 Resolution on Palestine adopted by *Unite Union* (Aotearoa/New Zealand) July 18, 2014 -- Over 170 Palestinian political parties, unions and other organisations including the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions issued a call in July 2005 for a global campaign of boycotts and divestment against Israel similar to those imposed against South African Apartheid. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3959 Venezuela: Chavista debate more than 'pragmatists vs radicals', 'Trotsky vs Stalin' http://links.org.au/node/3968 By *Federico Fuentes* July 21, 2014 -- The publication of a document highly critical of the government of Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro, authored by one of the longest-serving ministers in former president Hugo Chavez's government, has triggered an unprecedented debate among Venezuelan revolutionaries. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3968 Marta Harnecker: El Salvador, a new progressive hope in Latin America http://links.org.au/node/3962 *Marta Harnecker* interviewed by*José P. Guerrero*[i], translated by *Federico Fuentes* July 22, 2014 -- The new El Salvador government faces the challenge of deepening the pro-majority changes that have occurred, while updating the historic experiences of a fighting and conscious people seeking social transformation, said contemporary critical thinker Marta Harnecker, in an interview with weekly newspaper/El Siglo XXI./ * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3962 Ukraine: Despite MH17 disaster, Kyiv regime escalates shelling of east http://links.org.au/node/3961 By *Roger Annis* July 19, 2014 -- I learned of the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when my plane landed in Montreal the same day, July 17, on my way home from Moscow. The Moscow-Munich leg of my flight departed one hour before the (delayed) departure of Flight MH17 from Amsterdam at 12:30 pm local time. I reckon the respective flight paths crossed each other somewhere just west of Ukraine. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/3961 Spain: Podemos MEP Pablo Iglesias condemns 'hijacking of democracy' by big business http://links.org.au/node/3960 July 2, 2014 -- *Pablo Iglesias* is one of the five members of the European Parliament elected from the lists of Podemos, a barely 100-day-old political party that in the May 2014 European elections won more than 1 million votes in Spain.
[Marxism] Joint Statement: Defend Gaza! Defeat Israel’s War!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Israel Starts Ground Offensive: Defend Gaza! Defeat Israel’s War! Support the Palestinian Resistance! For a Workers’ and Popular International Campaign to Boycott Israel! Down with the Regimes which Collaborate with Israel! For a Free, Red Palestine! Joint Statement of the Revolutionary Communist International Tendency, Internationalist Socialist League (RCIT-Section in Israel / Occupied Palestine), the Communist Left of Australia and the Editor of the Blog vansterparlan.v-blog.se (Sweden), 22.7.2014 1. Israel’s ground offensive marks another escalation in its terrorist campaign against the Palestinian people. Until now, at least 604 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been killed and more than 3,700 have been wounded. This is not a conflict between two religious or national groups. Rather, this is an arch-reactionary war of oppression on the side of the racist apartheid state of Israel and a just war of defense on behalf of the Palestinian people! Democrats and socialists can’t help but enthusiastically support the heroic Palestinian resistance and work for the defeat of Israel. Read more at http://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/joint-statement-defend-gaza/ -- To unsubscribe, click the following link: --In the actual newsletter, the unsubscribe link will be inserted here.-- About http://www.thecommunists.net/about -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG ak...@rkob.net www.rkob.net +43-650-4068314 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Palestine and the Arab counter-revolution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There are two things that are certain. One, the crisis of poverty and inequality and injustice that brought forth the Arab revolution has not been resolved and will not go away. Two, however terrible the defeats suffered by revolutionaries across the Middle East these past years, the flame of resistance has not been extinguished. Palestine and the Arab counter-revolution Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Gülden Özcan and Bora Erdağı, On Capital, Real Socialism, and Venezuela: An Interview with Michael A. Lebowitz
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Capital, Real Socialism, and Venezuela: An Interview with Michael A. Lebowitz by Gülden Özcan and Bora Erdağı Gülden Özcan and Bora Erdağı: In some of the interviews you gave, you talked about your own everyday life experiences that led you to discover that Marx's total critique of capitalism is an unfinished project. In this discovery, you emphasized elsewhere that your class background and political struggle you were involved in have played an important role. Let's first begin with your book Beyond Capital: Marx's Political Economy of the Working Class (Palgrave Macmillan, 1992) in which you came to a conclusion that, although Marx wanted to deal more deeply with the subject of human needs, it had never been realized as he focused more on his revolutionary project of demystifying capital than completing his epistemological project. Before getting into the details of your arguments in Beyond Capital, could you explain once again for your Turkish readers the road that took you to write this book? Michael A. Lebowitz: First of all, let me stress that demystification of capital is an essential revolutionary project. Marx answered the most important question of all -- what is capital, what is this world of wealth that stands opposite and over us? If we don't understand what Marx revealed, then even when we struggle against capital, we are most likely to be struggling against unfairness -- unfair wages, unfair working conditions, unfair distribution of income, unfair taxes, etc. And, in the absence of struggle, it's likely that we will blame the victims -- i.e., that we look upon problems as our own fault, the result of our own deficiencies, and that therefore the burden is upon us if we want to do better. full: http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2014/lebowitz220714.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Stephen F. Cohen on the 2001 Ukrainian shoot-down of a civilian airliner | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://louisproyect.org/2014/07/23/stephen-f-cohen-on-the-2001-ukrainian-shoot-down-of-a-civilian-airliner/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Russian Military Intelligence poor record for truth telling
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Why should they even bother? I've already discredited those reports. Russia showed graphics [not data] that had an Su-25 tracking MH17 at 10km. I've already shown the Su-25 has a ceiling of 7km when it isn't carrying any arms. So? An Su-25 flying at 20,000 feet can quite easily shadow a passenger liner flying at 33,000 ft. Why is his even a comment? Don't you know that an Su-25 can be a 1,000 feet and shoot down a plane at 40,000 feet? It can piggey back ground based phased-array radar to it's own upgraded weapons system and shoot any variety of air-to-air missiles to take it out. It's a flying BUK if you will. I think the Separatists shot it down but I can see the Ukrainian gov't, that ALLOWED this plane to fly over a military conflict zone, quite happy about the Russians shooting it down. The point is the 'ceiling' is a wholly irrelevant point unless it was going to use it's cannons to shoot it down. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Russian Military Intelligence poor record for truth telling
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Ukraine ALLOWED over 100 planes a day to fly over a conflict zone. If FORCED zero to do so. Should civilian planes be ALLOWED to fly over Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Congo, Sudan, CAR, etc. I'd like to see your map of where planes should be ALLOWED to fly. The real question is how long Russian attacks on Ukraine will be ALLOWED - and defended by people on this list. Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 7:27 AM, DW via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Why should they even bother? I've already discredited those reports. Russia showed graphics [not data] that had an Su-25 tracking MH17 at 10km. I've already shown the Su-25 has a ceiling of 7km when it isn't carrying any arms. So? An Su-25 flying at 20,000 feet can quite easily shadow a passenger liner flying at 33,000 ft. Why is his even a comment? Don't you know that an Su-25 can be a 1,000 feet and shoot down a plane at 40,000 feet? It can piggey back ground based phased-array radar to it's own upgraded weapons system and shoot any variety of air-to-air missiles to take it out. It's a flying BUK if you will. I think the Separatists shot it down but I can see the Ukrainian gov't, that ALLOWED this plane to fly over a military conflict zone, quite happy about the Russians shooting it down. The point is the 'ceiling' is a wholly irrelevant point unless it was going to use it's cannons to shoot it down. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or THE airliner in this case)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/ The guy who wrote this is a commercial air line pilot. He makes a very good technical case why an Su-25 could, or likely wouldn't, shoot down the plane. I don't agree with everything he writes but he makes a...better case...here than anything else I've read on blogs. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Better apology needed.....
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Wed, July 23, 2014 17:17, DW via Marxism wrote: Apology to Clay for calling him a state dept socialist. This was out of line here That's a good start and it not accurate (that positions are congruent with this or that Imperialist position doesn't make one a state dept socialist) No it wouldn't, but you are still careless in calling his words congruent with [an] Imperialist position. Saying which missile hit which plane is not a position, it is just an assessment of fact. If you count every simple fact (say, starting with the multiplication table) then I guess you could say that I agree with over 99% of imperialist positions. And finally: On Wed, July 23, 2014 17:11, DW via Marxism wrote: Clay, who has become the point man for the Russia is Evil, Ukraine Good crowd of state dept type socialists here The apology to Clay was insufficient because an entire crowd was labelled state dept type socialists. That might well include me and the majority of this list. And furthermore, who among us exactly says Russia is Evil, Ukraine Good? AFAIK everyone on this list agrees that Ukraine is a capitalist country and people don't come to this list if they think capitalist countries are good. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Better apology needed.....
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == this is not about Clay. So I'm not going to comment on Clay but on the issues.I don't want to debate here if Clay sounds like he's mimicking everything that comes out Kiev or lines up with the State Dept. (and even if he does or doesn't *I don't care*, it's not relevant). It's not relevant to examining the issue of the downed airliner, in fact it's a fucking distraction which is the unstated reason I apologized. 'nuff said. DW Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: AFA Press Release: SCREENWRITERS AND THE BLACKLIST: BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER August 22-September 2
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Original Message Subject:AFA Press Release: SCREENWRITERS AND THE BLACKLIST: BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER August 22-September 2 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:23:13 + From: Ava Tews a...@anthologyfilmarchives.org Reply-To: Ava Tews a...@anthologyfilmarchives.org To: l...@panix.com AFA Press Release: SCREENWRITERS AND THE BLACKLIST: BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER August 22-September 2 ANTHOLOGY FILM ARCHIVES + CINEASTE MAGAZINE PRESENT: *SCREENWRITERS AND THE BLACKLIST: BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER* August 22 – September 2 The damage wrought by the Hollywood blacklist, especially the hardships endured by its victims, has been well documented. This series showcases the artistic contributions of prominent blacklisted screenwriters, including well-known radicals such as Hugo Butler, Dalton Trumbo, Ben Barzman, Abraham Polonsky, and Ring Lardner, Jr. Recent scholarship by Thom Andersen, Pat McGilligan, and Larry Ceplair emphasizes how films by blacklisted personnel yielded scripts (written, in many cases, by unapologetic Communists or left-wing activists closely aligned with the party) that explored, both subtly and blatantly, the nuances of race, class, and gender, as well as issues of justice and equity. In the first installment of a three-part series, we’ll be focusing on films made before the imposition of the blacklist in 1947 or before the screenwriters in question were prevented from working under their actual names. Film noir, for example, a genre that proved fertile territory for Hollywood radicals, is represented by Abraham Polonsky’s FORCE OF EVIL, while the shifting political landscape during World War II is discernible in George Stevens’s WOMAN OF THE YEAR (co-written by Ring Lardner, Jr.) and Delmer Daves’s PRIDE OF THE MARINES (written by Albert Maltz). This first part of the series also encompasses rarely-screened films such as Bernard Vorhaus’s THREE FACES WEST (Samuel Ornitz) and John Farrow’s FIVE CAME BACK (Dalton Trumbo), among others, many of them discussed in Thom Andersen and Noël Burch’s brilliant essay film, RED HOLLYWOOD, which will be enjoying a re-release this summer at the Film Society of Lincoln Center. The second part of the series, coming this fall, will highlight films produced during the blacklist, by writers either working in exile in the UK, France, Mexico, and elsewhere, or toiling in the shadows of credited ‘fronts,’ while the third and final installment will feature ‘comeback’ films made in the post-blacklist era. Co-presented by Cineaste Magazine http://anthologyfilmarchives.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fd770539b60f2d1fce353848eid=c329ef9a4de=b8985af7d9, which has been a major source for blacklist-related scholarship throughout its 40-plus-year history, SCREENWRITERS AND THE BLACKLIST is also presented in collaboration with the Film Society of Lincoln Center, which will be hosting a week-long revival run of Thom Andersen and Noël Burch’s RED HOLLYWOOD, as well as a parallel series of films by blacklisted directors and writers, curated by Andersen. For more info on both Film Society programs, which will take place from August 15-21, visit www.filmlinc.com. http://anthologyfilmarchives.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fd770539b60f2d1fce353848eid=92af0d76c5e=b8985af7d9 Special thanks to series co-curator Richard Porton, as well as to Patrick McGilligan, Larry Ceplair, Daniel Bish (George Eastman House), Paul Ginsburg (Universal), Mark Johnson (Harvard Film Archive), Mark McElhatten (Sikelia), Kristie Nakamura (WB), Judy Nicaud (Paramount), Lynanne Schweighofer (Library of Congress), Todd Wiener Steven Hill (UCLA Film Television Archive). Abraham Polonsky *FORCE OF EVIL* 1948, 78 min, 35mm, bw. Screenplay by Abraham Polonsky and Ira Wolfert, based on Wolfert’s novel. 35mm preservation print courtesy of the UCLA Film Television Archive. Preservation funding provided by The Film Foundation and the Archive Council. Based on Ira Wolfert’s TUCKER’S PEOPLE, Polonsky’s film noir, dismissed upon its release and later celebrated as an unsung classic, is famous for making parallels between capitalism and the criminal underworld. The film’s emotional core resides in the fraught relationship between corrupt lawyer Joe Morse (John Garfield) and his ailing brother Leo (Thomas Gomez). Polonsky and Wolfert were subsequently blacklisted and John Garfield’s premature death is often attributed to the pressures exerted by HUAC; threatened with blacklisting, he refused to name names despite his disillusionment with the Communist Party. “The greatest debut in the history of noir.” –Jonathan Rosenbaum *–Fri, Aug 22 at 7:00 and Sat, Aug 23 at 7:00.* John Farrow *FIVE CAME BACK* 1939, 75 min, 16mm, bw. Screenplay by Dalton Trumbo,
[Marxism] Joe Catron on Israeli Carnage in Gaza
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This week Voice of Palestine interviews Joe Catron, a US International Solidarity Movement activist in Gaza, Palestine. He has been filing almost daily eyewitness reports of the carnage from the Israeli bombardment and was one of the volunteers trying to protect Al Wafa hospital last week. Previously he also co-edited The Prisoners’ Diaries: Palestinian Voices from the Israeli Gulag, an anthology of accounts by detainees freed in the 2011 prisoner exchange. We reached him live in Gaza to talk with us about what he is seeing and experiencing. Click on this Link to access a download of the show. Browse our archives for the past ten years on our homepage For earlier shows, visit our YouTube Channel Please join our Facebook page at: Voice of Palestine صوت فلسطين facebook group Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == With all the focus on the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine and the struggle of pro-Russian separatists, it should be lost on nobody that an imperialist Russia is conducting a war of aggression against its smaller neighbour, Ukraine. Those were Russian troops that occupied Crimea before it was annexed. More recently Russia has become even more aggressive and we have seen reports of Russian armor, operating under Russian flags entering Eastern Ukraine, for the first time - of course we are suppose to be stupid about where the separatists get their heavy weapons from. We also have reports of missiles being fired into Ukraine from Russia and Russian war planes downing Ukrainian planes. So quite apart of the demands and organization of pro-Russian Ukrainians in the east, we have a Russian war of aggression against Ukraine. Now to the case of MH17. We have the Ukrainian telephone intercepts. I believe they are accurate and have gone into detail as to why I think that. I have also debunked the Russian experts claims that they are fake. The story they tell is that the shoot down of MH17 was an accident on the part of the pro-Russian forces. They first thought it was a Ukrainian military plane and then found out otherwise. This is an explanation I can believe, although I would add that such an accident was the inevitable result of Putin's aggressive attempts to impose a no-fly zone over part of the country he is attacking. The Russian response is that Ukraine did it and it was no accident but the sacrifice of 298 lives by Ukraine in the hopes of winning support for its side, just as the FSA was willing to use sarin on its own people for the same reason. Their story has many parts. One is that the Ukrainian intercepts are fakes, prepared well in advance, another is that MH17 was filled with corpse in the first place, and another is that an Su-25 was tracking (and possibly shot down) MH17. All of this implies some grand conspiracy involving multiple branches of the Ukrainian government with advanced planning and support from the US and possibly also Malaysia Air. This is why I regard all those that try to argue that technically an Su-25 could shoot down MH17, leaving aside why anyone in the Ukrainian air force would even choose a plane so unequal to the task when they have much better, and all the other aspects of the implausible Russian tale, as first rank Putin apologists. Now to the question of who shot down MH17, one man, Igor Bezler, claimed We have just shot down a plane, and the only plane he could be referring to is MH17. So who does Igor Bezler work for? If we can answer that we know who shot down MH17. Bezler claims to be a separatist militia leader of Horivka, but he is also a Russian GRU agent. He was soviet army airborne in Afghanistan. Until 2002 he was a Lieutenant Colonel in the GRU, a few years ago he retired to eastern Ukraine. He was involved in the annexation of Crimea before turning up in Donestsk. He was talking to another Russian officer when he reported the downed jet. So is Bezler still under the same command he has been under for more than 20 years or is he a renege from it? If he still honors the Russian command, that could explain how he got control of a BUK. It also means Russia shot down MH17 as part of its war of aggression against Ukraine and thus even though it be an accident it was manslaughter committed during the commission of a violent crime, meaning Russia should be charged with 298 counts of murder in the first degree by any laws I would respect. Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] A tale of young Trotskyists in Quebec
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I called up comrades from Fightback (part of IMT) to show up at an organized protest this evening in front of the Israeli Embassy here in Montreal. They couldn't come because Wednesday evening is for revolutionary coordination meetings for its committee members. The discussion is supposed to be about how capitalism is the root cause for the ongoing Gaza pogrom and the shooting down of the Malaysia airlines. Frankly, I wish I was joking. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or THE airliner in this case)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Here is further documentation, from a source published by members of the U.S. armed forces, that Eastern Ukrainian popular fighters had nothing whatever to do with the shoot-down of the plane load of already-dead bodies blamed on seperatist militia members, who were not even there. http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/07/donovian-militants-mh17-shot-down/?omhide=trueutm_source=Duffel+Blog+Email+Newsletterutm_campaign=24782dbaf1-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGNutm_medium=emailutm_term=0_6128900c72-24782dbaf1-11813721#!bkHj0y He who has not understood this has understood nothing. The anti-fascist forces, whose wisdom and courage are higher than the Pamirs, have only to wiggle a little finger to secure victory. T -Original Message- From: DW via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jul 23, 2014 11:53 AM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: [Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or THE airliner in this case) == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/ The guy who wrote this is a commercial air line pilot. He makes a very good technical case why an Su-25 could, or likely wouldn't, shoot down the plane. I don't agree with everything he writes but he makes a...better case...here than anything else I've read on blogs. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Lars Lih: The Lies We Tell About Lenin
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lars Lih: The Lies We Tell About Lenin I will just point to one odd feature of this pro-October story: it has a pronounced anti-Bolshevik tinge. According to many writers in the Trotskyist tradition, the doctrine of Old Bolshevism was pernicious error that had to be rejected before revolutionary victory was possible. We are constantly reminded by writers in this tradition that the Bolsheviks themselves, taken as a whole, were a dull lot who stubbornly remained loyal to what they had been told yesterday, even when their brilliant and visionary leaders had moved on. So pronounced is this anti-Bolshevik mood that some writers still have not forgiven me for saying something nice about Bolshevik underground activists. Don’t I realize that these activists were stodgy, hidebound komitetchiki who mistakenly refused to listen to the wisdom of émigré leaders such as Lenin and Trotsky? https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-lies-we-tell-about-lenin/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] In Gaza, Israel is being defeated
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == By Ali Abunimah If military victory and strength are measured in the number of civilians, especially children http://www.dci-palestine.org/documents/death-toll-palestinian-children-spirals-israel-expands-gaza-offensive, that an army can deliberately target http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/15/israelpalestine-unlawful-israeli-airstrikes-kill-civilians and slaughter with sophisticated machines, then there is no doubt that Israel is winning in Gaza — and has always been the winner in Palestine. But even though it is still mercilessly killing civilians in Gaza as I write these words on July 22, Israel has, in political and strategic terms, already lost the “war” it launched on Gaza on the false pretext of stopping rockets. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/56921 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
