[Marxism] Former Hezbollah leader: Iran turned Hezbollah into a killing machine as bad as takfiris
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Iran turned Hezbollah into a killing machine as bad as takfiris:Tufaili Saturday, July 19, 2014 8:11 AM http://yalibnan.com/2014/07/19/iran-turned-hezbollah-killing-machine-bad-takfiristufaili/ Hezbollah’s former Secretary-General Sheikh Sobhi Tufaili, an outspoken critic of the current leadership of the Iranian backed militant group blasted the Shiite party’s military role in Syria, blaming it for deepening Shiite-Sunni tension in Lebanon and across the Middle East. Tufaili told Saudi daily Al-Yaum during an interview that was published on Friday that Hezbollah was transformed by Iran into a killing machine as fanatic and radical as the Islamic State for Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS), which is accused of committing atrocities in Syria’s raging civil war. “We regret to say that Hezbollah has been tuned into a sectarian party and a killing machine, as bad as takfiri groups, at the hands of the Iranians,” Tufaili said. He charged that Hezbollah’s battle was directed against Muslims for the sake of defending “the regimes of corruption and tyranny,” in reference to Syria and Iran. “Hezbollah’s involvement in the fighting in Syria against Syrian children and people is a main factor in igniting sectarian hostilities and animosity that only serve the Zionist enemy and its allies,” Tufaili stressed. Tufaili called for joint Arab efforts to “save the region” from rampant “sectarian madness.” “it is our duty to use all available means and exert all possible effort to restore peace in the region.” He added: “What we need are honest, non-sectarian leaders whose work would be of benefit to all subjects.” Tufaili , who is one of the founders of Hezbollah was its spokesman between 1985 and 1989, and the party’s first Secretary-General from 1989 until 1991. In July 1997 he broke away from Hezbollah and organized protests, dubbed the “hunger revolution”. In February 2013, Tufaili berated Hezbollah for fighting on behalf of the Syrian regime in the Syrian civil war. He said “Hezbollah should not be defending the criminal regime that kills its own people and that has never fired a shot in defense of the Palestinians”. Tufaili added: “those Hezbollah fighters who are killing children and terrorizing people and destroying houses in Syria will go to hell”. He also berated the Lebanese Army for not stopping Lebanese citizens crossing the border to fight in Syria Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == -Original Message- From: Jeff via Marxism . But you can't really blame people getting bombed from the sky for trying to shoot down the planes that bomb them. If you do, then you have to agree with the shabby and transparently dishonest excuse the US gives for blocking Manpads to the FSA for years - that jihadists might get them Jeff: But those have a much shorter range. I don't study military matters, but from what I understand bombing is normally done from low altitudes in order to increase target accuracy, against which the shoulder fired missiles would be effective, and actually more portable. The separatists who fired that missile surely did not think they were protecting themselves from a bomber. MK: OK, if we're making that kind of technical distinction between the range of manpads and the BUK system, then that seems sensible enough to me. So to be clear, we are in favour of the Syrian rebels getting manpads but not anything with a far greater range. Thanks for another good argument against the US excuse for blocking manpads to the FSA. Of course that technical discussion is entirely separate from the political discussion of right and wrong in Ukraine. Unfortunately, Clay got that confused: he also noted, very usefully, that: Because MH 17 was cruising at 10 km, it was in no danger from MANPADS. They can't reach that high. The Ukrainian AN-26 can't fly that high either. Only the Ukrainian IL-76 military transport, with a ceiling of 13km could have been seen were the Boeing 777 was. It is not a bomber and the Ukrainians haven't been conducting air attacks from 10km so the argument that shooting down a plane at 10km [ which require very special and expensive missiles ] was necessary air defense is weak. MK: Good, very useful. Unfortunately, he then confuses this with learn(ing) to justify Russian imperialist military aggression in the Ukraine with reference to what I want the FSA to have for self-defense against that aggression in Syria. A statement which is of course as irrelevant as it is confusing. I oppose both sides in the Ukraine, but specifically re this issue, if Putin supplied the rebels with warplanes to drop on Ukrainian-loyalist cities to try to subdue people who do not want to be subdued to them, then certainly Ukrainians would have the right to shoot down planes bombing their cities. But in this case, the shoe is on the other foot. Whatever your overall view on the Ukraine, launching an air war against cities in part of the country that does not want to be subdued by the current regime in Kiev is aggression, and the people below have the right to shoot down warplanes. But the more useful part of Clay's (and Jeff's) discussion clarifies that they don't need missiles of the range the rebels apparently have. Back to Jeff and Syria, Jeff says: The American concern for misuse of those portable missiles has to do with them being used closer to an airport where passenger planes are flying low. Is it? Or is it more that the US will use any excuse to make sure the FSA has hardly any arms? Given the fact that the US has also given pretty much nothing else in terms of actual arms (as opposed to night goggles, radios and readymeals), I suggest the latter. My understanding is that Jeff generally agrees with this. And anyway, I'm not particularly keen to see ISIS obtain them (though I'll concede they'd have a right to shoot at planes bombing them). But if ISIS were to obtain these BUK missiles? Whoa. Obviously I'm not keen on that either. But of course the only force in the region that has been actually fighting - indeed, putting up an epic battle - against ISIS has been the FSA, its Islamist allies and Jabhat al-Nusra. They need good arms to fight both Assad and ISIS. Of course, it is not out of the question that ISIS could capture manpads from the FSA if they defeat them in battle. But things then become difficult to the point of impossible: as the US says, it can't allow the FSA to have manpads (or any other arms) because the FSA fights *together with* JaN, so JaN may get the weapons; and it can't allow the FSA to have manpads (or any other arms) because the FSA fights *against* ISIS, so ISIS may get the weapons; so even against the most terrible continuous air war against a population in the world, the victims are never entitled to defense no matter what they do. I know this isn't Jeff's opinion, but again this is why we need to separate the political from the technical discussion. Of course, as I said, Kiev's air war compared to Assad's is like a flea next to an elephant, but the principle that air war is war crime remains, IMO. So in conclusion, Manpads, yes, BUKs, no.
[Marxism] You listen decide - Is this voice of man who shot down MH 17?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == from Linux Beach: You listen decide - Is this voice of man who shot down MH 17? http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-listen-decide-is-this-voice-of-mand.html On the same day that Malaysia Air flight MH 17 was shot down by a surface-to-air missile with the loss of life of all 298 passengers and crew aboard on 17 July 2014, the Ukrainian Security Service [SBU] posted a video to You Tube which they said contained a recording of Igor Bezler, A Russian GRU agent saying they had just shot down an aircraft. I reported on this inmy blog http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/who-was-igor-bezler-before-he-shot-down.html on Thursday. Today I am presenting a You Tube video I have produced that is a composition of three different recordings all of which claim to be of Igor Bezler. In the first [1] he is reporting that they have just shot down a plane 25 minutes after flight MH 17 goes missing. It is from http://youtu.be/BbyZYgSXdyw The 2nd [2] is from an earlier intercept on 17 April 2014 of someone identified as Igor Bezler plotting kidnap and murder and uploaded to YouTube by the SBU on 24 April 2014. It is from http://youtu.be/sA8Co1Sglgs. The 3rd [3] is from a video presentation by Igor Bezler on 12 June 2014. It is a studio recording and of higher quality than the intercepts. It is from http://youtu.be/Xb4xyvWKTrw. You will hear nothing in this video but those three segments. The order is [1] [2] [1] [3] [1]. Are they they same voice? Is the person claiming credit for killing 298 people on 17th July, the same one who is speaking here on 17 April and 12 June. Is Igor Bezler guilty of the murder of 298 people? You listen and you decide. *More...* http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-listen-decide-is-this-voice-of-mand.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Original message From: Louis Proyect I don't think the question is one of blame. Accidents happen. MK: Exactly. So we need to separate the informational issue of whose accident it was from the idea that this has some connection to the politics if the conflict. LP: In fact this discussion takes us away from the real issue, which is whether the Socialist Alliance is correct by siding with Boris Kagarlitsky who is not only on the Kremlin payroll but speaks at conferences hosted by the Austrian Freedom Party, a party once led by Jorg Haider and that openly promotes antisemitism and nativism. MK: The SA does not side with Kagarlitsky. A motion from Renfrey to adopt a more pro-Russian position was explicitly rejected. I'm not sure how many other than Renfrey himself holds the Renfrey/Roger/Boris view. But in any case that is irrelevant to the argument I made about the right to defense against air war - I explicitly prefaced my argument by saying regardless of who is right or wrong in Ukraine. It is also irrelevant to my own view since as you know SA is not a Zinovievist organisation. As another example, while the SA has a Syria line that is broadly both anti-Assad, and opposed to any imaginary US intervention, it is a broad policy that can cover both my pointedly pro-revolution view, and Tony Iltis' far more plague on both your houses view. I do not think the specifics of my view are a common SA view, nor should it be. LP: Would anybody from the Socialist Alliance, including Michael, care to defend this from the position adopted in early June? There needs to be a negotiated solution to the conflict that can allow a truce and for the issues driving the conflict, including the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine's east and their expressed desire for greater autonomy or separation from the Ukraine, to be negotiated and resolved. Is there anything wrong with that position which calls for a truce and negotiated settlement? I understand you also don't support the Ukraine govt ATO right? The excellent anarchist material you have sent expresses the view that no side is worth dying for. This SA view allows a great deal of interpretation and certainly doesn't commit anyone to supporting the rebels. LP: The Socialist Alliance has also endorsed a statement by the Borotba/Kagarlitsky left that includes the following statement: The denial of official status to the Russian language in regions where more than 90 per cent of the population speak and think in Russian (roughly half of Ukraine’s territory), together with bans on teaching in Russian in the schools; bans on advertisements and films in Russian; bans on the use of Russian in the courts and administration, and many other absurd segregationist demands and prohibitions amounts to additional humiliation of Ukraine’s Russian-speaking population. Richard Fidler asked: Can you specify whether the “bans” listed above are in force and are being implemented? I would agree that such prohibitions, if they exist, would indeed constitute “humiliation of Ukraine’s Russian-speaking population,” to say the least. However, it was my understanding that a resolution to make Ukrainian the sole official language in Ukraine was overruled by the government in Kyiv. Am I mistaken? MK: I agree with Richard's question and that is also my understanding. While I haven't been keeping up much, I wasn't aware of the SA endorsing any such statement. Can you give details? Of course, the fact that the govt even attempted to pass such reactionary laws understandably creates a view among Russian speakers that this isn't their govt. This is mixed up with an element of working class resistance in the east to the EU-IMF program. But the hijacking of this by pro-Russian regime nationalists and fascists is an entirely different matter. I've tried to ask Renfrey and others on the GL list the extent to which they see these different factors as all the same thing. My understanding is that this would be a gross simplification. In fact, at the very least the attempt to split regions off from Ukraine and join them to Russia is divisive of the Ukrainian working class as a whole in this necessary struggle against the EU-IMF program. Even within the east itself, where ethnic Russians are actually a minority in most places, and that among both the ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians in the east the support for separatism, as opposed to some kind of regional decentralisation, is also a minority view. But that's just my semi-formed opinion. --- This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 7/20/14 5:09 AM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism wrote: There needs to be a negotiated solution to the conflict that can allow a truce and for the issues driving the conflict, including the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine's east and their expressed desire for greater autonomy or separation from the Ukraine, to be negotiated and resolved. Is there anything wrong with that position which calls for a truce and negotiated settlement? I understand you also don't support the Ukraine govt ATO right? The excellent anarchist material you have sent expresses the view that no side is worth dying for. This SA view allows a great deal of interpretation and certainly doesn't commit anyone to supporting the rebels. Maybe I wasn't clear. The issue is the rights of Russian speakers in the East, as I was alluding to by referring to Richard Fidler's question, not a truce or negotiated settlement. It is too bad that the Socialist Alliance has not yet published the entire resolution that was adopted since I am curious whether there is any other reference to the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine's east. To be quite blunt about it, the separatists have used this as an excuse early on and when socialists echo that excuse, they are serving the propaganda aims of the Kremlin and the Donetsk People's Republic. Five months ago after a measure was adopted that Russia no longer be a second official language, it was vetoed immediately by an interim president. That was the beginning and the end of it. You would think that from the heated rhetoric from the separatists and RT.com that this was tantamount to Kurdish activists in Turkey being arrested for publishing a newspaper in their own language or something like that. This article from Open Democracy puts the question into context. My fear is that the SA leadership simply is not keeping track of articles such as this. A deeper fear is that it is keeping track but choosing to ignore them. http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/uilleam-blacker/no-real-threat-to-ukraine%E2%80%99s-russian-speakers-language-law-ban No real threat to Ukraine’s Russian speakers Uilleam Blacker [1] 4 March 2014 What are the ‘legitimate interests’ justifying Putin’s intervention into Ukraine? The most frequently identified interest is the situation of Russians and Russian-speakers. Is the Russian language really under threat? Commentators often use the vague phrase ‘legitimate interests’ to explain Putin’s intervention into Ukraine. These may include gas and oil pipelines, or mistrust of NATO and the EU, but the most frequently identified ‘legitimate interest’ is the situation of Russians and Russian-speakers in Ukraine. The law On the Guardian’s Comment is Free section on 2 March, Jonathan Steele stated [11] that: ‘Russia's troop movements can be reversed if the crisis abates. That would require the restoration of the language law in eastern Ukraine and firm action to prevent armed groups of anti-Russian nationalists threatening public buildings there.’ The idea that a sovereign government should be expected to legislate under the barrels of an invading force’s guns is a curious one. But there is also a simple factual error here: the 2012 ‘language law’, allowing regions to adopt more than one language for official purposes if they were spoken by at least 10% of the local population (for the Russian language, just under half of Ukrainian regions meet this standard) was not cancelled; the interim president of Ukraine, Oleksandr Turchynov vetoed [12] this snap move from the parliament. Ukraine’s new political elite has realised it needs to do everything it can to include Russian-speakers in the ‘revolution.’ Of course, the veto of this short-sighted decision came after the threat from Russia became apparent: but at least the interim government realised its mistake in potentially alienating Russian-speakers. Ukraine’s new political elite seems to have finally realised that it needs to do everything it can to include Russian-speakers in the ‘revolution’ that is being led from Kyiv. The Mayor of Lviv in the Ukrainian-speaking west recorded a special appeal to Russian-speakers, defending their right to use their language, while intellectuals in west and east engaged in a day of swapping languages; journalists who normally speak Ukrainian on TV have been switching to Russian. Such gestures are, in fact, largely unnecessary for many Russophone Ukrainians and ethnic Russians, who are already supporters of the Maidan; for others, terrified by Russian anti-western and anti-Maidan propaganda, they are badly needed. Russian media, which entirely dominates the Ukrainian east and south (where Russian is mother tongue for the
[Marxism] Fwd: Boeing 777: Between “Yes” and “No” | LeftEast
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.criticatac.ro/lefteast/boeing-777-between-yes-and-no/ July 19 2014 Boeing 777: Between “Yes” and “No” by Ilya Budraitskis We can say with confidence that the tragedy of Boeing 777, which took the lives of 298 people, has brought the conflict in Eastern Ukraine to a principally new level. Now the main centers of power—Russia, the US, and the EU—must make themselves known and must take the responsibility for stopping the war or conversely—for its practical legitimation and expansion. Even considering the possibility that the plane was shot down by mistake, it is events of such magnitude that divide history into “before” and “after.” “After” such an event the possibilities of such “strange,” “hybrid,” and other “wars without war” become exhausted. Over the past several months, as a constant stream of people and weapons passed across the gaping hole of the Russo-Ukrainian border, the nerve centre of the diplomatic struggle between Russia and the West was the question of whether Russia had a sway over the rebels or whether this was an intra-Ukrainian conflict. By giving a different answer to the question, each side could then propose a dramatically different solution: Russia needed a consensus around the idea that Ukraine was undergoing a “civil war,” which could be only ended through the dialogue of the outside parties, who would agree to a division of Ukraine into spheres of influence. The U.S., on the other hand, insisted that the conflict needs to be seen precisely as a form of undeclared but very real intervention by Russia on Ukrainian territory, that is, a variation of good old military operations, of which U.S. itself has a long and established record. A direct consequence of such a conclusion was the not-so-successful strategy of “containing” Russia, the gradual imposition of sanctions and other activities, which could force Putin to “end the war,” which he could end as easily as he began it. Compromises in this struggle to define what is taking place would mean a direct path to defeat for each of the sides. By the logic of this cynical and cruel diplomatic game, if the tragedy of Boeing 777 had not taken place it would have been necessary to invent it. Evidence of the role of the rebels from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR), which will probably be found very soon by the so called “international community”, will probably lead to its designation as a “terrorist organization.” Justifications for the most brutal and destructive measures against “international terrorism” were, as we know, one of trademarks of Putin’s rule. The downing of MH17 will now confront him with the question over support for the DNR, which he can only answer in the affirmative or the negative (in reality, a “yes” should no longer be possible). The point of this message, addressed to a single person, is most clearly expressed in the editorial of yesterday’s issue of The New York Times: “Vladimir Putin can stop this war.” Can Putin do this in reality? Does he have such a direct control not only over the rebel leaders but also over the regular rank-and-filers? Such questions have now been put in brackets, possibly forever. The space for maneuver Russian foreign policy enjoyed came to a sudden end somewhere over the Donbass region, at a height of 10,000 m. The question that has remained is as follows: can Putin back down? It is well known that many, both in Russia and abroad, doubt the strength of the reigning regime’s “home front.” Liberals console themselves with the thought that the mirages of propaganda will fade away once the population comes to feel the direct consequences of economic sanctions. Nationalists and some former leftists prophesy a Moscow “anti-Maidan,” that is, a patriotic mobilization, which may turn on Putin if he “betrays Donbass.” It seems that both underrate the scope of the destructive work conducted since this spring by the Russian state over Russian society. “The New Putin Majority,” cheerfully announced by Kremlin sociologists, seems in the immediate future ready to accept any actions proposed by its rulers. A combination between abstract aggression and fear before the ghosts of instability—these are the impulses governing the majority of our countrymen, who are ready to accept anything as long as the images of war and destruction from their TV screens do not move into their own apartments. It will take a lot of time and patience before the feelings of dignity, the ability for independent thinking, and most importantly, the capacity to fight for their own rights come back to Russia. (translated from Russian by Rossen Djagalov – original article at OpenLeft.Ru ) Ilya Budraitskis (1981) is a historian,
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's true that the Ukrainian authorities should have declared the whole of the eastern region of the country as dangerous, and putting a 32 000 foot minimum safe limit was a bit daft considering that they must have known, or at least strongly suspected, that pro-Russians in the east had anti-aircraft missiles that could reach twice that height (airliners usually cruise at between 30 000 and 40 000 feet). It's also wrong that airlines, in order to save a few bob on fuel, would insist on flying over a region in which aeroplanes are being shot down up to heights not that far short of the safe limit. On the other hand, if one does have possession of such weapons, then it would be best to have personnel in charge of them who know the dangers involved in using them. According to the reports of various military experts, the missiles' guidance systems and ancillary equipment are insufficient to obtain a detailed identification of the target. This has to be obtained by other means, usually via communication with the country's air traffic control, to ensure that one's target is the plane which you wish to hit. If this incident was the work of pro-Russian elements, I suspect that they were aiming at a Ukrainian transport plane and locked the missile on to the Malaysian airliner by mistake, or that they misidentified the Malaysian plane as a Ukrainian one. Either way, they were unable properly to identify it until it was far too late, after it had crashed. Were the missiles of this type supplied from Russia, taking into account the potentially disastrous -- and foreseeable -- consequences of a heavy-duty anti-aircraft missile in amateur hands, it's unlikely that they would have been just handed over and not accompanied with operators who knew how to handle them and hopefully avoid disasters (such as this one) occurring. If this did happen, then this was irresponsible in the extreme. The Ukrainian authorities were amiss in not declaring the region to be dangerous and prohibiting all over-flying; the airlines should have avoided the area once planes started to be shot down (some airlines did do this). True enough. But responsibility must firstly be placed upon those who launched the missile and who in so doing failed to establish beforehand the actual identity of the plane at which they aimed it. Paul F Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Can the world get by without Russia? « LRB blog
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == A third reason for Russia’s apparent ‘bigness’ is the legacy of its past: the decisive role of the Soviet Union’s vast armies in defeating Hitler, its 20th-century advances in space, the influence of its 19th-century writers and its role in the spreading of socialist ideology around the world. Just as American jingoists like John McCain flatter the Kremlin by portraying Putin and his colleagues as new-generation Brezhnevs, there are still those on the left in Europe and America who seem to find in speaking up for the mendacious, militarist kleptocrats of the Kremlin a sublimation of guilt at their own failure to inspire armed revolutionaries around the world with progressive alternatives to religious fundamentalism and patriarchal capitalism. full: http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2014/07/19/james-meek/can-the-world-get-by-without-russia/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Argentina: Out with the old, in with the new (unions) / Buenos Aires Herald
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Out with the old, in with the new (unions) Workers from Lear auto parts firm are seen staging a protest yesterday in downtown Buenos Aires. *By Mariano Parada López* *For The Herald* *From Lear, Gestamp conflicts emerge left-wing, independent groups* Around 650 workers at the car-parts company Lear are pressuring their bosses to respond to the dismissal of 100 of their colleagues. They have organized several demonstrations in the past two weeks, as well as a picket that was eventually countered by security forces last Tuesday. So far the firm has not allowed the shop stewards to enter the factory. A similar situation is playing out for the workers of Gestamp, which also manufactures car parts. They have demanded that the company rehire 70 dismissed workers. Meanwhile, employees of the printing firm RR Donnelley joined Lear workers at a recent rally to protest the layoff of 123 of their colleagues. Early in the year, SUTEBA — a Buenos Aires province teachers’ union — staged a lengthy strike against what they regarded as an insufficient pay hike (i.e. below the official inflation rate) offered by Governor Daniel Scioli’s administration. Roberto Baradel, the head of the teachers’ union, denied that left-leaning parties had been behind the conflict, despite some observers having considered the strike to have been propelled by left-wing activists within SUTEBA. These labour conflicts follow a common trend: new union organizations emerge, rejecting old leadership, before rallying for support from nervy businessmen. The result has been the renaissance of leftist trade unionism, which has also absorbed so-called “independent” workers. “The working-class is waking up,” said Silvio Fanti, a Lear worker and member of the local union representing the 650 employees. While he admits there are some union members in Lear who are part of left-wing parties, he said he himself is an “independent.” Fanti has worked at the car-part manufacturer for 15 years and became a regional shop steward in 2011, when his group won the internal elections against the pro-government SMATA auto workers union led by Ricardo Pignanelli. Fanti accuses SMATA officials of turning their backs on Lear workers in their demands for better working conditions. “Trade unions don’t want independent members, and even less so left-wing activists,” Fanti told the Herald. “We work with a lot of different people, but it doesn’t mean we’re all left-wing,” he added. “There are local committees which are claiming their independence from the trade unions. The working-class is waking up and demanding fairer working conditions,” he said. Fanti says he’s certain there will be more “democratic” trade unions as a consequence of the emergence of these regional committees, and accused SMATA of sharing the same interests as the company. Roberto Amador from Gestamp largely agreed: “The union wouldn’t listen to us. They told us in April that nothing was going to happen but then the firm fired 23 people, all of whom were opposed to the union.” He said the unions claim they’re powerless, suggesting that anyone with a critical opinion of them is considered a “leftist.” A PTS party activist, Amador told the Herald that a committee member was threatened: “One of the shop stewards received a letter which said he would be killed.” Local delegates have been operating within Gestamp since 2007. The committee was comprised of pro-Pignanelli activists until 2012, when three “independent” shop stewards were voted in. According to Amador, the election came as a result of a new generation of workers: “There were lots of young people hired by Gestamp who didn’t trust the ruling bloc. It’s not a case of the leftist parties agitating for change, but because of our own colleagues within many SMATA factories who are expressing their anger.” The relationship between the union and the local committee is quite different at RR Donnelley. “The union has declared that it is opposed (to the dismissals). Union support is really important for us,” stressed Jorge Medina, a shop steward. The eight members of the local committee at Donnelley, who form the “Brown List,” are against the ruling “Green List” linked to the Buenos Aires Province Graphics Union, still led by Raimundo Ongaro, a long-term union leader and the founder of the CGT de los Argentinos in the 60s. Despite their political differences, Medina has not criticized Ongaro: “We’re permanently in touch with the union. They’ve publicly denounced the dismissals and called on the entire union to be on the alert.” Both Lear and Donnelly workers recently held a protest in front of the US Chamber of Commerce in Buenos Aires. *Economic restraints* If the increasing mistrust of unions is one of the pillars of local committees,
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/20/2014 02:09 AM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism wrote: I don't think the question is one of blame. Accidents happen. MK: Exactly. So we need to separate the informational issue of whose accident it was from the idea that this has some connection to the politics if the conflict. I don't think we can just blow this off with shit happens. A very aggressive decision was made to take out a plane at 33,000 ft. This was not a plane involved in air attacks. It followed threats to attack anything flying over Eastern Ukraine and it required especially trained crews and weapons. Also see; http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/why-ukraine-erupted-again.html Russia has been escalating its war in Ukraine for weeks. The urgency to win turned to recklessness. President Putin has been recklessly escalating the crisis in eastern Ukraine since he was embarrassed and outmaneuvered by the Ukrainian president three weeks ago. Allowing a passenger jet to be shot down is the act of an increasingly desperate man. The Kremlin ordered tanks, heavy weapons and Russian fighters to pour over the border stoking up the crisis until tragedy struck. We should have seen it coming; on Wednesday morning the front page of Foreign Policy magazine had a headline that should have sent shockwaves through the geopolitical landscape: Russia Is Firing Missiles At Ukraine http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/16/russia_is_firing_missiles_at_ukraine_grad_rockets_us_sanctions. The story followed several Russian citizens posting videos to social media which they said show GRAD rockets being fired from Russian territory toward Ukraine. By triangulating the different camera angles, my team at The Interpreter proved that the unguided rockets were indeed being fired into Ukraine from Russia. Thursday morning, there were reports that a group of Ukrainian soldiers had been hit by the rocket fire and were actually receiving medical treatment on the other side of the border, ironically enough in the same town from which the rockets had been launched in the first place. This should have been huge news. How could things in Ukraine have deteriorated to the point where Putin was now engaged in such a reckless act of aggression? Of course, it was huge news... but for only a few hours. Quickly this headline was buried under the news that another Malaysian airlines flight was missing, and evidence is steadily growing that either Russian-backed separatists or Russia itself may have fired the missile that brought it down.While much of the media is trying to figure out who shot this aircraft down, with what weapon and where it was obtained, it might be more instructive to focus instead on the 'whys' of this incident. Why would Putin want to shoot down a commercial airliner? And if it was an accident, why would Putin allow the separatists to have a weapon this powerful without having full control over how it was used? The answer to that question reveals that the situation in Ukraine, and in Moscow, is much, much worse than many had feared. The first thing we have to understand is that the Kremlin spent a lot of time and money to bring down, either deliberately or accidentally, Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. The prime suspect is a Buk surface-to-air missile system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system. This is not a shoulder-fired weapon easily smuggled across the border, a point-and-shoot heat-seeking weapon that could be used with little training by anyone who got their hands on it. This is an advanced and battle-proven series of highly sophisticated vehicles which coordinate to track targets with radar and fire missiles so advanced that they were designed to knock smart bombs and cruise missiles out of the sky. Whoever launched this weapon was highly trained and extremely well-equipped. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://louisproyect.org/2014/07/20/robert-parrys-folly/ On Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:45:43 PM UTC-4, Clay Claiborne wrote: Robert Parry uses the Obama's administration's Rush to Judgement as to Assad's responsibility for the August sarin gas attack, which we all know was disproved by an assortment of conspiracy theories, as a cautionary tale against jumping to conclusions about Putin and MH 17. http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/ Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] TROTSKYIST ANALYSIS OF WORKERS' STATES; DUAL CHARACETR OF STALINISM; AND HOW TO STOP IMPERIALSIM MILTIARY ATTACKING THE RUSSIAN WORKRS' STATE WHICH WOULD BE NUCLEAR SUICIDCE!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == MY RESPONSE TO LINDSEY GERMAN'S ARTCLE ON THE SHOOTING DOWN OF THE PLANE IN UKRAINE! BY ANTHONY BRAIN MY RESPONSE TO LINDSEY GERMAN'S ARTCLE ON T... Despite major theoretical differences between the small minority left State Capitalists; Trotskyists like myself; Socialist Action supporters; and Stalinists is t... View on defendtrotskyism.wor... Preview by Yahoo Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] HOW TO BUILD BIGGEST DEMONSTRATION IN BRITISH HISTORY TO STOP MILTIARY ATTACK ON RUSSIA (BIGGER THAN THE 2 MILLION MARCH AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR ON THE FEBRUARY 15TH 2003!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == ONE POINT MISSING ON HOW TO STOP NUCLEAR SUICIDE BY PREVENTING A MILTIARY ATTACK ON RUSSIA! BY ANTHONY BRAIN ONE POINT MISSING ON HOW TO STOP NUCLEAR ... If a war with Russia looks more likely the Stop the War Coalition should unite around the single demand of no to war with Russia! which is the best way of uniting m... View on defendtrotskyism.wor... Preview by Yahoo I missed middle class out! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == So with all the back and forth on mainly egos and information on who did what - whether Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, etc. - I continue to detect on this Marxist List discussions people promoting/cheer leading U. S. (capitalist) government military and economic aggression and interference in these and other nations - and others promoting the Russia (capitalist) government and its allies/proxies (capitalist) states actions. While I like the historical information some people share on this list, I wish there was more a direction on how people can help REAL socialists in these different lands, than to this ideological and too much male ego strutting - on generals with no armies reviewing their battle strategies. There are real lives at stake - and those cheerleading for a USA or other capitalist military to occupy and cause destruction, does nothing concretely to change things that favor the poor and working people of this world. Why are people expecting/hoping/viewing on this List, the USA government and its allies/proxies - being a positive alternative to expand spheres of influence and power in this world? And everyone who has written their criticism of the USA government not doing more (meaning militarily/economically) under the Obama administration (who would not do so if Bush, Reagan were presidents) in Sudan, Iran, Libya, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine and now Ukraine - promote peace, justice or socialism? They seem to more identify with the USA military Empire, than in efforts to establish worker democracies. The collapse of the Stalinist Soviet Union, should have energized people on this list to help reach out and assist in many ways in building left groups in those former Soviet republics and in Eastern Europe. Instead we have seen people just writing among themselves - and instead of outreach building in other nations and the ones they reside in - cheerleading for president Obama to use MORE military and economic force to be the Big Bully in the world! We need to do away with the cheer leading for Putin and Obama and spend real time on promoting socialism - the only real hope for this world, that many such as myself on this List, STILL believe in. http://louisproyect.org/2014/07/20/robert-parrys-folly/ On Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:45:43 PM UTC-4, Clay Claiborne wrote: Robert Parry uses the Obama's administration's Rush to Judgement as to Assad's responsibility for the August sarin gas attack, which we all know Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == So with all the back and forth on mainly egos and information on who did what - whether Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, etc. - I continue to detect on this Marxist List discussions people promoting/cheer leading U. S. (capitalist) government military and economic aggression and interference in these and other nations - and others promoting the Russia (capitalist) government and its allies/proxies (capitalist) states actions. While I like the historical information some people share on this list, I wish there was more a direction on how people can help REAL socialists in these different lands, than to this ideological and too much male ego strutting - on generals with no armies reviewing their battle strategies. There are real lives at stake - and those cheerleading for a USA or other capitalist military to occupy and cause destruction, does nothing concretely to change things that favor the poor and working people of this world. Why are people expecting/hoping/viewing on this List, the USA government and its allies/proxies - being a positive alternative to expand spheres of influence and power in this world? And everyone who has written their criticism of the USA government not doing more (meaning militarily/economically) under the Obama administration (who would not do so if Bush, Reagan were presidents) in Sudan, Iran, Libya, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine and now Ukraine - promote peace, justice or socialism? They seem to more identify with the USA military Empire, than in efforts to establish worker democracies. The collapse of the Stalinist Soviet Union, should have energized people on this list to help reach out and assist in many ways in building left groups in those former Soviet republics and in Eastern Europe. Instead we have seen people just writing among themselves - and instead of outreach building in other nations and the ones they reside in - cheerleading for president Obama to use MORE military and economic force to be the Big Bully in the world! We need to do away with the cheer leading for Putin and Obama and spend real time on promoting socialism - the only real hope for this world, that many such as myself on this List, STILL believe in. http://louisproyect.org/2014/07/20/robert-parrys-folly/ On Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:45:43 PM UTC-4, Clay Claiborne wrote: Robert Parry uses the Obama's administration's Rush to Judgement as to Assad's responsibility for the August sarin gas attack, which we all know Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] FIDEL CASTRO CONTRADICTS BARNESITES ON UKRAINE AND CUBA!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Undue Provocation: Fidel Castro on Ukraine and Palestine Undue Provocation: Fidel Castro on Ukraine and Palesti... Cuba, which has always expressed solidarity with the Ukrainian people, cannot stand by without condemning the undue news of a Malaysia Airlines plane being shot dow... View on yclbritain.wordpress.com Preview by Yahoo Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 7/20/14 4:20 PM, John Obrien via Marxism wrote: I continue to detect on this Marxist List discussions people promoting/cheer leading U. S. (capitalist) government military and economic aggression and interference in these and other nations - and others promoting the Russia (capitalist) government and its allies/proxies (capitalist) states actions. You have to learn how to quote people, O'Brien. This kind of characterization of people's views without regard for what they actually are saying is not only provocative, it defeats the purpose of having a serious debate. Try not to do this in the future or else I will be forced to put you on moderation. It was this kind of reductionism that led to flame wars in the past. We really don't need that. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 20, 2014, at 4:53 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 7/20/14 4:20 PM, John Obrien via Marxism wrote: I continue to detect on this Marxist List discussions people promoting/cheer leading U. S. (capitalist) government military and economic aggression and interference in these and other nations - and others promoting the Russia (capitalist) government and its allies/proxies (capitalist) states actions. You have to learn how to quote people, O'Brien. This kind of characterization of people's views without regard for what they actually are saying is not only provocative, it defeats the purpose of having a serious debate... Methinks our listowner doth protest too much, since he has just slandered Robert Parry (Robert Parry is part of a cadre of investigative journalists who have put themselves at the disposal of the Kremlin) for having passingly expressed scepticism, in the course of a splendid piece of investigative journalism (investigative journalism, by the way, is the endeavor to uncover and publicize information that those in power wish to suppress), anent the US regime's official position on the Sarin incident in Syria. And, by the way, there is no analytic difference between denouncing someone for not doing something or not doing enough of it (as when Obama is denounced for not intervening actively enough in support of the armed insurgency in Syria) and cheerleading for that person doing something or doing more of it. John O'Brien has summarized that side of the discussion quite precisely. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 20, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: Maybe I wasn't clear. The issue is the rights of Russian speakers in the East, as I was alluding to by referring to Richard Fidler's question, not a truce or negotiated settlement. It is too bad that the Socialist Alliance has not yet published the entire resolution that was adopted since I am curious whether there is any other reference to the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine's east. To be quite blunt about it, the separatists have used this as an excuse early on and when socialists echo that excuse, they are serving the propaganda aims of the Kremlin and the Donetsk People's Republic. Five months ago after a measure was adopted that Russia no longer be a second official language, it was vetoed immediately by an interim president. That was the beginning and the end of it. It’s not quite so simple as that. The interim president vetoed the legislation under pressure from the European Union. The law was in conflict with the European Charter respecting Regional or Minority Languages. The European People’s Party, the right-centre majority in the European Parliament had passed a resolution calling “on the Ukrainian Parliament and the new government for the adoption of new legislation in line with Ukraine’s obligations under the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages which will assure the respect of the rights of citizens in the country and the use of Russian and other minority languages”. The EU subsequently welcomed “that the acting President of Ukraine did not sign into law the new language provisions, thus safeguarding the position of Russian as an official language in Ukraine”, stressing “that Ukraine must fully safeguard the rights of all communities and minorities in the country.” That was the real beginning and end of it. The decision by the interim president, a product of the new Ukrainian Parliament which passed the original measure, was not born of a spirit of tolerance for the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine’s east, as you would have it. It more reflected the new regime’s subordinate status to the Western powers. I hope my comment will not be misconstrued as serving the propaganda aims of the Kremlin and the Donetsk People’s Republic. I’m in agreement with those who say neither side is worth dying for - or becoming an apologist for. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 7/20/14 9:33 PM, Marv Gandall wrote: That was the real beginning and end of it. The decision by the interim president, a product of the new Ukrainian Parliament which passed the original measure, was not born of a spirit of tolerance for the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine’s east, as you would have it. It more reflected the new regime’s subordinate status to the Western powers. Let me repeat what I said. Even if Russian lost its status as an official language, Ukraine was never facing a situation analogous to Turkey where Kurdish speakers were victims of national oppression. Historically the ethnic Russians who settled in the eastern Ukraine were favored by the Kremlin. Sometimes I really get aggravated by the failure of Marxists to delve into Ukrainian history. I have a ton of writing assignments I am working on all the time but I have already read a history of Crimea and Anatol Lieven's book on the Ukraine (he is no nationalist.) I have plans to read Paul Magocsi's 900 page history of Ukraine when I get a chance. I sometimes get the impression that unless a Marxmail subscriber is a grad student, they read no scholarly literature at all. That accounts, I guess, for some of the mind-numbing stupidity I have seen here over the past 16 years. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] France: 100 years after Jaures' murder, his name still inspires
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == When you travel through France, there’s one name that appears most in public space ― on streets, schools and metro stations. Not Jeanne d’Arc, Napoleon, or even World War II resistance leader and later president Charles de Gaulle. No, the name you can pretty safely bet you’ll find on some sign in the next sleepy village is that of Jean Jaures. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/56903 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Bruce Franklin - re-writing Vietnam as a Noble War
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/americas-memory-vietnam-war-epoch-forever-war# http://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/americas-memory-vietnam-war-epoch-forever-war Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
