Re: [Marxism] Duplicitous Khashoggi Picked the Wrong Prince

[RKOB via Marxism]

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Things are a bit more complicated.

"Khashoggi Picked the Wrong Prince" - well, yes, he picked the one who 
is the most reactionary, most Trumpian, most dangerous, in short, a 
bulwark of the Arab counterrevolution.


"he was a loyal member of the Saudi propaganda apparatus" - well, not 
loyal enough obviously as he criticized the Yemen war, repression 
against women activists, etc.


It is true that Western media are sympathetic to Khashoggi.This is a) 
because he was one of them to a certain degree (columnist of Washington 
Post) and b) because many liberals hate Trump (and MbS is Trumps' man in 
the Arab world).


Of course, as Marxists we have a very different agenda than the 
liberals. But it is good (and not bad) if the liberals are forced to 
attack the most arch-reactionary enemies and to defend a moderate 
semi-liberal (like Khashoggi). This is particularly true if people like 
Khashoggi are slaughtered by the arch-reactionaries not because they 
were not left-wing enough but because they were not right-wing enough. 
(I hope my English is sufficiently understandable!)




Am 16.10.2018 um 05:20 schrieb Andrew Stewart via Marxism:

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The murder of Jamal Khashoggi should be denounced. Professor As`ad
AbuKhalil says western media’s uncritical praise of Khashoggi is unworthy,
he was a loyal member of the Saudi propaganda apparatus and chose the wrong
side of the House of Saud.





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Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for one-man rule

[RKOB via Marxism]

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In my opinion, the line should be like this:

Marxists denounce reactionaries like Trump for all their crimes 
("patriotic" and "unpatriotic").


There is nothing wrong to denounce him (resp. his camp) for crimes for 
which the mainstream of the bourgeoisie or the liberals denounce him 
too. (As Trotsky said, we don't make automatically a plus were the the 
bourgeoisie makes a minus.)


Naturally, Marxists at the same time also denounce reactionary actions 
and ideologies promoted by the mainstream/liberal wing of the 
bourgeoisie (like e.g. anti-Russian or anti-Chinese chauvinism, 
sanctions etc).


We don't chose between two big evils (Western or Eastern imperialism) 
but fight against both (and thereby defend the interests of the 
international working class).



Am 15.10.2018 um 23:35 schrieb Chris Slee via Marxism:

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When the "mainstream" of the US capitalist talks about Russian intervention all 
the time, but says little or nothing about voter suppression, they are using Russia as a 
distraction from the faults of the US political system.

I don't deny that Russia tried to influence the US elections.  The US has 
always tried influence elections in other countries, including in Russia where 
they helped Yeltsin to win.

It might be argued that in a globalised world it is normal for governments to 
use the internet to influence public opinion in other countries.

Of course we should criticise the specific content of Russian propaganda if it 
is reactionary, as much of it is.

The Russians reportedly sent different messages to different audiences.  One of 
the accusations is that they encouraged progressive voters to stay home or vote 
for third parties rather than Democrats.  Shock! Horror!

Another accusation is that they leaked DNC emails showing bias against Bernie 
Sanders.  The implication is that if only these emails had remained secret, all 
would have been well.

Of course we should criticise Russia for trying to help the election of such a 
reactionary figure as Trump.  But we should also criticise the Democrats for 
using Russia to distract attention from their own faults and those of the US 
political system.

Chris Slee

From: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2018 7:33:58 AM
To: Chris Slee
Cc: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for 
one-man rule

I'm not sure why Chris Slee raises the issue of Russian interference in the US elections in 
relation to this article, as I never mentioned it  there. However, I don't think it's simply a 
"gigantic distraction". Or, rather, I don't think it is insignificant. The fact is that 
the Putin regime did intervene in the US elections and did so to help Trump win. The reason is 
Trump's long time ties with the Russian mafia/capitalist class through his money laundering. That, 
in itself, is enormously significant. Even more so, it is an important aspect of the loss of 
control over the US presidency by the mainstream of the US capitalist class. The Democrats and the 
other representatives of this mainstream aren't raising the issue in order to "distract" 
workers; they are raising it because it really does represent a huge crisis for them.

As far as whether or not Putin's interference was decisive in swinging the election for 
Trump, the book "House of Putin, House of Trump" estimates that something like 
3-6% of the vote was influenced by Putin's intervention. In a close election like that 
one, that could have made the difference in some key states. yes, of course, had the 
Democrats had a less unappealing candidate than Hillary Clinton, they could have very 
well overcome that intervention, but nevertheless I don't think we can just dismiss the 
effects of it.

John Reimann

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:21 PM Chris Slee 
mailto:chris_w_s...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Tthe campaign to blame Russia for Trump's election victory is a gigantic 
distraction from talking about the failings of the US political system, 
including voter suppression.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism 
mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu>> on behalf 
of John Reimann via Marxism 
mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2018 6:31:58 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: 

[Marxism] A political memoir

[Ken Hiebert via Marxism]

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I have just finished reading The Girl I Left Behind.  Judith Nies is referring 
to herself as someone who changed under the impact of the ‘60s and the rise of 
Women’s Liberation.
Early on she was being groomed for the CIA or State Department.  As a student 
at the School of Advanced International Studies (John Hopkins) she studied 
alongside Madeleine Albright.

But she turned away from that milieu and became a staffer for the Women’s 
International League for Peace and Freedom and later a staffer for a group of 
liberal congressmen.  She left the congressional job when her liberal employers 
failed to pay her for eight weeks straight.

In one home she found papers of Joe Davies a former US ambassador to the Soviet 
Union and the author of Mission to Moscow.  During WWII this book was made into 
a movie in support of Stalin against Trotsky and others.

But most important is her report on the rise of the Women’s Liberation movement 
and her part in it.

I found it worth reading.

ken h



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[Marxism] Duplicitous Khashoggi Picked the Wrong Prince

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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The murder of Jamal Khashoggi should be denounced. Professor As`ad
AbuKhalil says western media’s uncritical praise of Khashoggi is unworthy,
he was a loyal member of the Saudi propaganda apparatus and chose the wrong
side of the House of Saud.



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Andrew Stewart
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Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for one-man rule

[Chris Slee via Marxism]

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When the "mainstream" of the US capitalist talks about Russian intervention all 
the time, but says little or nothing about voter suppression, they are using 
Russia as a distraction from the faults of the US political system.

I don't deny that Russia tried to influence the US elections.  The US has 
always tried influence elections in other countries, including in Russia where 
they helped Yeltsin to win.

It might be argued that in a globalised world it is normal for governments to 
use the internet to influence public opinion in other countries.

Of course we should criticise the specific content of Russian propaganda if it 
is reactionary, as much of it is.

The Russians reportedly sent different messages to different audiences.  One of 
the accusations is that they encouraged progressive voters to stay home or vote 
for third parties rather than Democrats.  Shock! Horror!

Another accusation is that they leaked DNC emails showing bias against Bernie 
Sanders.  The implication is that if only these emails had remained secret, all 
would have been well.

Of course we should criticise Russia for trying to help the election of such a 
reactionary figure as Trump.  But we should also criticise the Democrats for 
using Russia to distract attention from their own faults and those of the US 
political system.

Chris Slee

From: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2018 7:33:58 AM
To: Chris Slee
Cc: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for 
one-man rule

I'm not sure why Chris Slee raises the issue of Russian interference in the US 
elections in relation to this article, as I never mentioned it  there. However, 
I don't think it's simply a "gigantic distraction". Or, rather, I don't think 
it is insignificant. The fact is that the Putin regime did intervene in the US 
elections and did so to help Trump win. The reason is Trump's long time ties 
with the Russian mafia/capitalist class through his money laundering. That, in 
itself, is enormously significant. Even more so, it is an important aspect of 
the loss of control over the US presidency by the mainstream of the US 
capitalist class. The Democrats and the other representatives of this 
mainstream aren't raising the issue in order to "distract" workers; they are 
raising it because it really does represent a huge crisis for them.

As far as whether or not Putin's interference was decisive in swinging the 
election for Trump, the book "House of Putin, House of Trump" estimates that 
something like 3-6% of the vote was influenced by Putin's intervention. In a 
close election like that one, that could have made the difference in some key 
states. yes, of course, had the Democrats had a less unappealing candidate than 
Hillary Clinton, they could have very well overcome that intervention, but 
nevertheless I don't think we can just dismiss the effects of it.

John Reimann

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:21 PM Chris Slee 
mailto:chris_w_s...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Tthe campaign to blame Russia for Trump's election victory is a gigantic 
distraction from talking about the failings of the US political system, 
including voter suppression.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism 
mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu>>
 on behalf of John Reimann via Marxism 
mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2018 6:31:58 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for 
one-man rule

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"Oaklandsocialist has repeatedly pointed to Trump’s drive for one-man
dictatorial rule. He is doing this by whipping up his supporters into a
frenzy of denialism and hatred and outright violence. Through this, he has
seized near complete control over his party and, through them over
congress. He has also seized near complete control over the federal
judiciary, including the all-important federal Appeals Courts. He must
maintain that control to keep his money-laundering past hidden. That
control is threatened by the possible loss of a Republican majority in the
Assembly (and possibly the Senate) this November. In order to try to
prevent that loss, his representatives at the state level have organized
widespread removal of voters from the rolls. 

Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for one-man rule

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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I'm not sure why Chris Slee raises the issue of Russian interference in the
US elections in relation to this article, as I never mentioned it  there.
However, I don't think it's simply a "gigantic distraction". Or, rather, I
don't think it is insignificant. The fact is that the Putin regime did
intervene in the US elections and did so to help Trump win. The reason is
Trump's long time ties with the Russian mafia/capitalist class through his
money laundering. That, in itself, is enormously significant. Even more so,
it is an important aspect of the loss of control over the US presidency by
the mainstream of the US capitalist class. The Democrats and the other
representatives of this mainstream aren't raising the issue in order to
"distract" workers; they are raising it because it really does represent a
huge crisis for them.

As far as whether or not Putin's interference was decisive in swinging the
election for Trump, the book "House of Putin, House of Trump" estimates
that something like 3-6% of the vote was influenced by Putin's
intervention. In a close election like that one, that could have made the
difference in some key states. yes, of course, had the Democrats had a less
unappealing candidate than Hillary Clinton, they could have very well
overcome that intervention, but nevertheless I don't think we can just
dismiss the effects of it.

John Reimann

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:21 PM Chris Slee  wrote:

> Tthe campaign to blame Russia for Trump's election victory is a gigantic
> distraction from talking about the failings of the US political system,
> including voter suppression.
>
> Chris Slee
> --
> *From:* Marxism  on behalf of John
> Reimann via Marxism 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 October 2018 6:31:58 AM
> *To:* Chris Slee
> *Subject:* [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive
> for one-man rule
>
>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> "Oaklandsocialist has repeatedly pointed to Trump’s drive for one-man
> dictatorial rule. He is doing this by whipping up his supporters into a
> frenzy of denialism and hatred and outright violence. Through this, he has
> seized near complete control over his party and, through them over
> congress. He has also seized near complete control over the federal
> judiciary, including the all-important federal Appeals Courts. He must
> maintain that control to keep his money-laundering past hidden. That
> control is threatened by the possible loss of a Republican majority in the
> Assembly (and possibly the Senate) this November. In order to try to
> prevent that loss, his representatives at the state level have organized
> widespread removal of voters from the rolls. Here is a round-up of the
> voter suppression that Trump and his minions are carrying out for the
> upcoming elections:[see article for details]
>
> "It will take a massive show of power in the streets and in the work places
> to stop this further attack on the democratic rights of working class
> people. The union leadership, committed as it is to the Democratic Party,
> has proven it will not organize such power. DSA can and should do so."
>
> Read full article, including details on voter suppression:
>
> https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/10/15/voter-suppression-another-tactic-in-trumps-drive-for-one-man-rule/
>
> --
> *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
> Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
> _
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> Set your options at:
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>


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Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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Re: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for one-man rule

[Chris Slee via Marxism]

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Tthe campaign to blame Russia for Trump's election victory is a gigantic 
distraction from talking about the failings of the US political system, 
including voter suppression.

Chris Slee

From: Marxism  on behalf of John Reimann 
via Marxism 
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2018 6:31:58 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: [Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for 
one-man rule

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"Oaklandsocialist has repeatedly pointed to Trump’s drive for one-man
dictatorial rule. He is doing this by whipping up his supporters into a
frenzy of denialism and hatred and outright violence. Through this, he has
seized near complete control over his party and, through them over
congress. He has also seized near complete control over the federal
judiciary, including the all-important federal Appeals Courts. He must
maintain that control to keep his money-laundering past hidden. That
control is threatened by the possible loss of a Republican majority in the
Assembly (and possibly the Senate) this November. In order to try to
prevent that loss, his representatives at the state level have organized
widespread removal of voters from the rolls. Here is a round-up of the
voter suppression that Trump and his minions are carrying out for the
upcoming elections:[see article for details]

"It will take a massive show of power in the streets and in the work places
to stop this further attack on the democratic rights of working class
people. The union leadership, committed as it is to the Democratic Party,
has proven it will not organize such power. DSA can and should do so."

Read full article, including details on voter suppression:
https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/10/15/voter-suppression-another-tactic-in-trumps-drive-for-one-man-rule/

--
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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[Marxism] Voter suppression: Another tactic in Trump's drive for one-man rule

[John Reimann via Marxism]

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"Oaklandsocialist has repeatedly pointed to Trump’s drive for one-man
dictatorial rule. He is doing this by whipping up his supporters into a
frenzy of denialism and hatred and outright violence. Through this, he has
seized near complete control over his party and, through them over
congress. He has also seized near complete control over the federal
judiciary, including the all-important federal Appeals Courts. He must
maintain that control to keep his money-laundering past hidden. That
control is threatened by the possible loss of a Republican majority in the
Assembly (and possibly the Senate) this November. In order to try to
prevent that loss, his representatives at the state level have organized
widespread removal of voters from the rolls. Here is a round-up of the
voter suppression that Trump and his minions are carrying out for the
upcoming elections:[see article for details]

"It will take a massive show of power in the streets and in the work places
to stop this further attack on the democratic rights of working class
people. The union leadership, committed as it is to the Democratic Party,
has proven it will not organize such power. DSA can and should do so."

Read full article, including details on voter suppression:
https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/10/15/voter-suppression-another-tactic-in-trumps-drive-for-one-man-rule/

-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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[Marxism] ICYMI: Trump aide Steve Miller pushing ban on Chinese students

[A.R. G via Marxism]

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Gross but hardly unprecedented in the United States, given that the Chinese
Exclusion Act was one of the first explicit immigration restrictions and
case law from that era still floats around in the US judiciary.

http://fortune.com/2018/10/02/trump-stephen-miller-china-student-visa-ban/

Amith R. Gupta
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[Marxism] How chemical weapons have helped bring Assad close to victory - BBC News

[Richard Taylor via Marxism]

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> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45586903?ocid=global_bbccom_email_15102018_top+news+stories
>  
> 
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Re: [Marxism] The UN's Devastating Climate Change Report Was Too Optimistic - Motherboard

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 10/15/18 10:54 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:


https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hangs-tacky-fantasy-painting-of-himself-with-gop-presidents-in-white-house 



Sorry. This is the right link.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/43e8yp/the-uns-devastating-climate-change-report-was-too-optimistic
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[Marxism] The UN's Devastating Climate Change Report Was Too Optimistic - Motherboard

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hangs-tacky-fantasy-painting-of-himself-with-gop-presidents-in-white-house
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[Marxism] What is behind Turkey's strategy in handling the Khashoggi case?

[RKOB via Marxism]

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On goal of Ankara is to force the Saudis to drop their support for the YPG.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/turkey-strategy-dealing-khashoggi-case-181014193618340.html

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[Marxism] Syria/Idlib: How to Assess the Official Statement of HTS on the Sochi Surrender Deal?

[RKOB via Marxism]

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https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/how-to-assess-the-hts-statement-on-the-sochi-deal/


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[Marxism] Polish film attacks RC clergy

[Gregory Adler via Marxism]

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An interesting crack in the hold of Catholicism's hold on Poland possibly
heralding a similar development to the breakdown of clerical domination in
Ireland

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/15/polish-film-the-clergy-sparks-hundreds-of-allegations-of-abuse-kler-catholic
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[Marxism] Recent articles on Redline

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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Protecting paradise - 1080 and the fight to save NZ wildlife:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/13/book-review-protecting-paradise-1080-and-the-fight-to-save-new-zealands-wildlife-by-dave-hansford-patton-burton-2016/

Canterbury Socialist Society Founding Statement:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/11/canterbury-socialist-society-founding-statement/

Remembering Che: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/08/remembering-che/

Workers and left confront Labour Party in Dublin:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/04/workers-and-left-confront-labour-party-in-dublin/

General strikes in Costa Rica and Argentina:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/03/general-strikes-in-costa-rica-and-argentina/

Introducing 'Noes from Below':
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/10/01/introducing-notes-from-below/
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