Re: [Marxism] As Publishers Fight Amazon, Books Vanish - NYTimes.com

2014-05-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 05/24/2014 10:44 AM, Clay Claiborne wrote:
 Midnight Special Bookstore would have sold my film and Free Syria
 stuff  [to people in LA - Victorville not so much] 
On second thought, I'd like to amend that. Given't the standance of
almost the entire Left in LA these days, its not at all clear that
Midnight Special would be willing to carry my Free Syria stuff, maybe
they would even be pulling Vietnam: American Holocaust from the shelves
too like a few other Left outlets because if I am so wrong on Syria,
apparently in retrospect, I was wrong on Vietnam too.

-- 
Clay Claiborne, Owner
Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/
116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9
Venice Beach, CA 90291
(310)581-1536

(323) 219-6507 cell

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[Marxism] On ISIS takeover in Mosul, Tikrit and all

2014-06-11 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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My 3 most recent tweets:

The #USA trained and armed #Iraq-i Army may be the best example yet of a 
Paper Tiger. #Bush #Obama policy failure


The only force on the ground that is really fighting #ISIS is the #FSA 
and #Syria-n opposition. Failed #Obama policy.


Joke is because of #Obama's refusal to arm #FSA, now in the war between 
#ISIS  #FSA et al, ISIS will have most #US weapons.


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Re: [Marxism] Bush, Barack Bashar BFF to Islamic Extremists in Iraq Syria

2014-06-18 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I was tempted to just go with Islamic State of Iraq and Syria because all
the minutia is so tedious, but I hadn't really seen the details on
Baghdadi, ISI, AQI, ISIS and JAN teased out it a way that is easy to digest
so I included that an it took awhile.

Did you see the piece in NRB today? Completely glossed over last 8 years of
ISIS and Baghdadi. Got a lot wrong too,

I was going to send it to you for critical review first but then I just
wanted to get it done. Its no too late, if you anything that could be
improved.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com
wrote:

 fucking brilliant as always
 skimmed it and am now working my way through it more slowly
 the punchline:
  The only force that is doing it right, the only force on the ground that
 is actually fighting ISIS and winning is the Free Syrian Army and its
 allies and the best course of action for those concerned about the rise of
 the Islamic State of Iraq and al Sham is to see that they get the arms and
 supplies they need to defeat both ISIS and the Assad regime and set Syria
 on the road to a democratic future.


 On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 ==



 Major new piece from Linux Beach:


   Bush, Barack  Bashar BFF to Islamic Extremists in Iraq  Syria
   
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/06/bush-barack-bashar-bff-to-islamic.html
 


 Exceprts:

  When Obama reneged on his pledge to respond to Assad's growing and
  continued use of chemical weapons, he showed again that Western
  promises were worth nothing and Western regard for Arab lives was
  worth even less. This failure to act on long promoted humanitarian
  concerns greatly demoralized the democratic forces and represented a
  propaganda coup for those that said only fools would look to the West
  to find a vision of Syrian or Iraqi future. After 21 August 2013, many
  more fighters cast their lot with the jihadists. The fall of Mosul and
  Tikrit in Iraq to forces under the leadership of ISIS is blow back
  from Obama's failure to take action after Assad's chemical attacks.
 
  Odd as it may sound, the leadership of ISI may have seen its initial
  expansion into Syria as a defensive move! After the Syrian Revolution
  began, the eyes of young Arabs turned to the struggle going on in
  Syria against the Assad regime. Colonel Hajji Bakr feared that
  everyone would start going to Syria to fight, leading to a collapse of
  their group. Initially Baghdadi forbade anyone going to Syria and
  considered all who disobeyed his order to be defectors. This
  non-interventionist policy wasn't holding so Bakr proposed the forming
  of a non-Iraqi battalion to be sent to Syria. This new command would
  be under Syrian leadership and was to attract non-Iraqi fighters from
  abroad. No Iraqi officers could join. This was the beginning of Jabhat
  al Nusra [JAN], also know as al Nusra Front. Baghdadi sent Abu
  Mohammed al-Golani to Syria to run it.
 
  The Front, as it became known, came to Syria with fresh but seasoned
  fighters and better arms than the Free Syrian Army. They enjoyed some
  notable battlefield successes and soon became famous worldwide,
  attracting jihadists from the Gulf, North Africa, Yemen, even Europe
  and the US. Meanwhile, back in Iraq, Baghdadi and Bakr were beginning
  to fear they'd created a monster that out shined them. They ordered
  al-Golani to announce that al Nusra was officially under the State of
  Iraq and Baghdadi. Golani said he'd think about it. Then he sent
  Baghdadi a letter saying it wouldn't be in the best interest of the
  revolution, sorry Charlie.
 
  Baghdadi and Bakr were furious. Then US President Obama put al Nusra
  Front on the terrorist list, making Golani the most wanted man in
  Syria. That was the last straw. They feared al Nusra was getting off
  the reservation so as a test of loyalty, Baghdadi told Golani at a
  meeting in Turkey to conduct military operations against the FSA. The
  Front's Shura council unanimously rejected the orders. In a strongly
  worded letter Baghdadi responded by telling Golani to obey the orders
  or disband al-Nusra. After waiting for a reply, which never came,
  Baghdadi sent an envoy who Golani refused to meet.
 
  Baghdadi was now more

Re: [Marxism] Three reasons why Turkey misunderstands ISIS - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

2014-06-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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That the CIA might have inadvertently trained some ISIS fighters in Jordan,
according to Peter Clifford Online today, will really fuel these CT fires.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 5:34 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 (Apparently Turkish officials agree with Mike Whitney that ISIL is a CIA
 asset.)

 http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/akyol-
 isis-turks-iraq-syria-al-qaeda-mosul-consulate-cia.html
 
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Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS

2014-06-20 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 06/20/2014 09:58 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote:
 But what you should know about this list,
 is that the members who post frequently are naturally in attack mode.
 That means that if you post something that they disagree with, especially
 if it has some clear errors or problematic logic, then it will generate
 lots of angry responses. Conversely, if you don't get responses to a post,
 it means that everyone either agreed with it or couldn't find any point to
 attack it on.
Reminds me of my days blogging at the DailyKos. I got a lot of feedback
there, mostly from people in attack mode, until they finally got me
banned for saying stuff that has panned out 100% since then. I'm
certainly not looking for that kind of unprincipled feedback but at
least I knew the a piece was being read and discussed.

I'm not looking for a bunch of ataboys from those that agree or to waste
bandwidth, but I guess I am saying I need more feedback and I want to
thank everyone who took the time to give it to me this morning.

In Solidarity,

Clay



-- 
Clay Claiborne, Owner
Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/
116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9
Venice Beach, CA 90291
(310)581-1536

(323) 219-6507 cell

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Re: [Marxism] Cointelpro never ended

2014-06-20 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 06/20/2014 09:30 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote:
 At this stage of the game, such abuses by the government seem almost
 quaint.

 Sent from my Windows Phone
Which also CC'ed it to the NSA!

-- 
Clay Claiborne, Owner
Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/
116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9
Venice Beach, CA 90291
(310)581-1536

(323) 219-6507 cell

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Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS

2014-06-20 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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 On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Greg McDonald gregm...@gmail.com wrote:

 In the 2nd paragraph you write:


 They go back a long ways and are tied to the reality that this system of
 robbing the many to enrich the few creates economic crisis in which nobody
 can buy what they are selling. This gave us our most recent economic crisis
 and it also gave us the Great Depression of the 1930's.

 You are basically stating economic crisis is caused by a lack of
 purchasing power, whereas some others would argue economic crisis of
 capitalism is caused by overproduction.

I would argue that underconsumption and overproduction are two sides of the
same coin. The problem isn't that too much is being produced if the measure
is the capability of generating that much social production, obviously,
because it is being produced, or that the product isn't socially required.
The problem is that it isn't being sold. Anyway I meant nobody can buy
what they are selling to be a metaphor that was also accurate per se.

Anyway, I think losing that section in a rewrite makes sense for a
different placement.

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Re: [Marxism] O'Donnell's good question and Obama's bad answer

2014-06-23 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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His basic message is that such a revolution is a fantasy.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Of course Obama is horrified by the idea that mere farmers and workers
 could overthrow a capitalist regime. Obama has done us a favour not only in
 further clarifying imperialist policy towards the Syrian revolution, but in
 clarifying the *class* basis both of the revolution and of imperialist
 opposition to it, something for anti-class anti-imperialists to think
 about.

 MK

 -Original Message- From: Andrew Pollack via Marxism
 Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 7:27 AM
 To: Michael Karadjis
 Subject: Re: [Marxism] O'Donnell's good question and Obama's bad answer


 ==
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 Various media have different lists of job types in Obama's remarks. The
 official transcript says farmers, teachers or pharmacists:
 http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/19/
 remarks-president-situation-iraq


 But that's not my main point. Below is my comment when a Syrian
 revolutionary friend shared the article:

 The worst part about his speech is his slanderous denial of the ability of
 farmers or teachers or pharmacists to defeat Assad. It is PRECISELY those
 folks and the rest of Syria's working masses who alone can defeat Assad.
 The problem is not the class composition of the FSA, but rather that of its
 bourgeois leadership. (And one day the US working masses will overthrow the
 filthy ruling class whom Obama gladly serves here.)
 PS: I must say Obama clearly doesn't know shit about the Arab-American
 community or he wouldn't have slandered pharmacists in particular.

 This comment drew an impressive number of likes from other pro-Revolution
 Arabs. (And of course they're spitting mad about Obama's callous remarks in
 general, the essence of which is 'you Syrians are too low-class and stupid
 to deserve our support, so fuck off.'


 On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
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 From Linux Beach:


   O'Donnell's good question and Obama's bad answer
   
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/06/odonnells-good-
 question-and-obamas-bad.html
 

  /CBS This Morning /host Norah O'Donnell asked
  
 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-notion-that-syrian-
 opposition-could-overthrow-assad-a-fantasy/
 
  President Obama a very good question when she interviewed him about
  the growth of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham or ISIS and its
  dramatic return to Iraq after a year of growth in Syria:
 
  /Would that vacuum exist had we backed the moderate forces in 
 Syria?/
 
  President Barack Obama responded:
 
  /Yes, I think this notion that somehow there was this  ready-made
  moderate Syrian force that was able to defeat [Syrian President
  Bashar] Assad is simply not true, and, you know, we have spent a
  lot of time trying to work with a moderate opposition in Syria.
 
  But, as I said yesterday, when you get farmers, dentists and
  folks who have never fought before going up against a ruthless
  opposition in Assad, the notion that they were in a position to
  suddenly overturn not only Assad but also ruthless, highly  trained
  jihadists if we just sent a few arms is a fantasy. And I think
  it's very important for the American people - but maybe more
  importantly, Washington and the press corps - to understand 
 that./
 
  The correct answer is No, ISIS would probably not be leading the
  uprising in Iraq if Obama had backed the moderate forces in Syria.
  President Obama is just wrong when he implies that the Syrian
  opposition had to battle both the Assad regime and the hard-line
  Islamic jihadists from the beginning and he is wrong when he says  his
  administration did all it could to help them when it /spent a lot  of
  time trying to work with/ some

[Marxism] Juan Cole turns to the Dark Side

2014-07-06 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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/First I want to thank everyone who helped out in //my recent fund drive
http://www.gofundme.com/aqvxrs//. We reached 108% of the goal. And
now...//
/
New from Linux Beach:


  Juan Cole turns to the Dark Side
  http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/juan-cole-turns-to-dark-side.html

 Juan Cole has come out with a new book *The New Arabs: How the
 Millennial Generation is Changing the Middle East*
 http://www.amazon.com/New-Arabs-Millennial-Generation-Changing-ebook/dp/B00GEECHL6,
 1 July 2014 , in which he tells the Arab masses that have been
 struggling for freedom since 2011 /Better luck next time./ Here's a
 sample
 http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-cole-arab-spring-millenials-20140629-story.html:

 And two or three decades from now, the twentysomethings of Tahrir
 Square and the Casbah in Tunis and Martyrs' Square in Tripoli
 will, like the Havels of the Middle East, come to power as
 politicians.

 We haven't heard the last of the Middle East's millennial generation.

 The old state machinery was smashed in Tripoli, while it was left more
 or less intact in Tunis and Cairo, and the heroes of Martyrs' Square
 have yet to be decisively overthrown. They may still be a good ways
 from consolidating state power but nobody has any business throwing in
 the towel for them. They are still grappling with what state power
 should look like after 40 years of Qaddafi but it is far too early to
 lump them in with the others who never really brought down the old
 state machinery in the first place. But I suppose, acknowledging that
 the Libyan Revolution is still in play, would over-complicate the
 narrative that Juan Cole is selling on the Arab Spring, which appears
 to be /Nice try, better luck next time./

 Better luck next time is a cheer entirely acceptable to the bosses.
 We'll win the next strike. You'll get your freedom next time. There'll
 be pie in the sky when you die., etc. Hope for the future is a
 narrative that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie, revolution now is
 not, and Juan Cole is out to sell books. Perhaps that also explains
 why he attempts to put a knife in the back of the Syrian people with
 his *Top 5 Reasons US Aid to /Moderate/ Syrian Fighters is
 Quixotic*,
 http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/moderate-fighters-quixotic.html
 published on his blog, *informed COMMENT http://www.juancole.com/*,
 28 June 2014, just days before his book was released.

 I've learned a lot from Juan Cole over the years and I was a big fan
 of the principled stand he took in support of the Libyan people. His
 Open Letter to the Left on Libya
 http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/an-open-letter-to-the-left-on-libya.html and
 his Top Ten Myths about the Libya War
 http://www.juancole.com/2011/08/top-ten-myths-about-the-libya-war.html 
 were outstanding examples of how bloggers on this battlefield support
 revolutions.

 In the /US Aid ...is Quixotic/ piece, Juan Cole takes a turn towards
 the dark side as he attempts to realign his views on the Syrian
 conflict with the growing western drumbeat for selling any support for
 a democratic Syria short in favor of continued Assad rule in the name
 of fighting terrorism. He also has a very  /America First/ attitude
 when it comes to current dilemma of the people of Syria.

 Given the well earned respect Juan Cole commands, I find it necessary
 to look at this piece in great detail, but before we do that perhaps
 it is best that we begin where he ends because one gets the feeling
 that everything else was shaped to support this predetermined conclusion:

 I have concluded that the dangers of blowback from US intervention
 are so great and the danger of an ISIS victory in Syria so
 unacceptable that the US would be better off not intervening
 directly in this conflict. 

 The joke is /the danger of an ISIS victory in Syria/ and Iraq,
 overblown as it is by Juan Cole, is already the result of three years
 of doing what he advocates, namely, the US /not intervening directly
 in this conflict,/ What do they call a policy that keeps doing the
 same thing while expecting a different outcome?


*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/juan-cole-turns-to-dark-side.html

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at theLinux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ 

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[Marxism] STOPFAKE.ORG

2014-07-07 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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http://www.stopfake.org

This looks like a very good myth debunking site about Ukraine.



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

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Re: [Marxism] STOPFAKE.ORG

2014-07-08 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Calling it the Kiev coup regime (even after the election!) is also a
pro-Russian position.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Magnolia Bloomberg via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 ==


 I'd take them more seriously if they framed their statements more
 accurately. Their bias is showing.
 Such as:
 July 02, 2014 - 16:57


Pro-Russian Separatist Supporters Seek Western Support On Social
Media
http://www.stopfake.org/en/pro-russian-separatist-
 supporters-seek-western-support-on-social-media/

 Why call them 'pro-Russian'. They are just Ukrainians who don't recognise
 the Kiev coup regime. Looks fake to me like a NED fake front.


 On 08/07/14 09:53, marxism-requ...@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 Message: 21
 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:53:29 -0700
 From: Clay Claiborneclayc...@gmail.com
 To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
 marx...@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
 Subject: [Marxism] STOPFAKE.ORG
 Message-ID:
 CA++W49jbj0VpmtAEHRygdvkXW_-nOAUimk11eYgMHpShiVc47A@mail.
 gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 http://www.stopfake.org

 This looks like a very good myth debunking site about Ukraine.



 Clay Claiborne, Director


 
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Re: [Marxism] Netanyahu suppressed info to create a bloodlust

2014-07-08 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==


On 07/08/2014 05:04 PM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism wrote:
 the Angry Arab has
 published the photographs of the destruction caused and he rightly points
 out that the victims will receive no favorable coverage in the NYT. 
I'll bet they receive much more favorable coverage than Syria's victims.
I haven't read the NYT today, but I just finish watching France24,
BBCNews  CBSNews, each reported that 20 Palestinians were killed by
Israeli air strikes today. Nobody mentioned Assad's victims in Syria.
VDC has already put that at 21 for today, but I doubt that will be the
final total because for the week  29th June - 5th July for which they
have complete info, they show the following daily tolls 73 - 64 -46 -77
-93 -75 - 72.

The short story is that the slaughter of Syrians has become so regular
and so accepted by the West that they almost never report on it.

Worst still, the Left never protests it. Why doesn't the Angry Arab
get angry about that?






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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Questions about socialism and value theory | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

2014-07-08 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==


This also looks useful in the way of a more detailed explanation:

http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/marx/section3.rhtml

Although I would add that not all labor time is created equal. 1 hour of
a Linux SysAdmin is more valuable than 1 hour as a ditch digger because
more labor went into producing the Linux guy.

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[Marxism] Two new pieces from Linux Beach today

2014-07-09 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==



  Why won't this story be covered like Israel's attacks on Gaza?
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/why-wont-this-story-be-covered-like.html

 HOMS -- Fifteen people died as a result of an attack on a mosque late
 Tuesday in the town of Zafaran in Homs, in the western part of the
 country.

 The Syrian army fired missiles at Omer Bin Abdulaziz Mosque in
 Zafaran, Homs, during Ramadan prayer time, according to a statement by
 the Syrian Revolution General Commission.

 Fifteen people were killed and many were wounded some of whom are in
 critical condition, the commission said.
*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/why-wont-this-story-be-covered-like.html*
*


  Today's example of Assad's support for Islamic State
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/todays-example-of-assad-support-for.html

 SOHR has been informed that Dawud Brigade swore allegiance to the
 I.slamic State and conveied the fighters and ammunition from the town
 of Sarmin in the countryside of Idleb province to IS- held areas in
 the province of Al Raqqa, where a military convoy of more than 50
 vehicles were seen carrying fighters from Dawud Brigade and passing
 near the city of Saraqeb. *The convoy was going towards the provice of
 Al Raqqa through the road located between the two towns of Athrayya
 and Khanaser which is held by the regime foces which were able to
 target the convoy and prevent it to cross the area but they did not do
 so.*

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/todays-example-of-assad-support-for.html

Also recently from Linux Beach:


  Juan Cole turns to the Dark Side
  http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/juan-cole-turns-to-dark-side.html

...

 Given the well earned respect Juan Cole commands, I find it necessary
 to look at this piece in great detail, but before we do that perhaps
 it is best that we begin where he ends because one gets the feeling
 that everything else was shaped to support this predetermined conclusion:

 I have concluded that the dangers of blowback from US intervention
 are so great and the danger of an ISIS victory in Syria so
 unacceptable that the US would be better off not intervening
 directly in this conflict. 

 The joke is /the danger of an ISIS victory in Syria/ and Iraq,
 overblown as it is by Juan Cole, is already the result of three years
 of doing what he advocates, namely, the US /not intervening directly
 in this conflict,/ What do they call a policy that keeps doing the
 same thing while expecting a different outcome?

More...
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/juan-cole-turns-to-dark-side.html


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Re: [Marxism] Little Annis Fannis reports from Crimea

2014-07-10 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Shows not speaking the language can be an asset when you already know what
you are going to report before the visit.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

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http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Ukraine government, Malaysia Airlines confirm passenger plane crash, at least 295 presumed dead (UPDATES, VIDEO)

2014-07-18 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 4:36 AM, Sergii Kutnii via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 The liner was flying there at the 1m altitude because Ukraine
 didn't close the corridor.
 The rebels had only MANPADs before that can't reach such an altitude.

 News about the Buk anti-aircraft system in the hands of rebels
 appeared only a couple of days ago.

Here's a link to a Voice of Russia article dated 29 June and Buk in
pro-Russian hands.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/

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[Marxism] Who was Igor Bezler before he shot down MH-17?

2014-07-18 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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A new investigative piece from Linux Beach:


  Who was Igor Bezler before he shot down MH-17?
  
claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/who-was-igor-bezler-before-he-shot-down.html

 Everyone wants to know who was behind the downing of Malaysia Air
 MH-17 and the murder of 298 civilians completely uninvolved with the
 conflict over which they died in Eastern Ukraine. The most damning
 evidence to come out so far in that regard has to be the recording
 which Ukrainian officials have released
 http://www.sbu.gov.ua/sbu/control/uk/publish/article?art_id=129035cat_id=39574
 in which they say Igor Bezler takes credit for downing the plane in a
 conversation with a Russian military intelligence officer named Vasili
 Geranin.

*More...*
claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/who-was-igor-bezler-before-he-shot-down.html


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Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder

2014-07-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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This is so pathetic,

I heard commercial air planes had flown that route many times a day before
this shoot down. In any case they knew as well the government that Putin
forces had weapons that could shoot them down if they flew within 60km of
East Ukraine, So if you're going to blame Ukraine, you also have to blame
MH, KLM, and all other carriers who continued to use this route.

Or you can use normal logic and blame those who shot down the plane.

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Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder

2014-07-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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hundreds of commercial airplanes fly over Iraq every day.

Hindsight is always 20/20 so now after the shoot down of MH 17, everybody,
especially Putin apologists, want to know why Malaysia air was allowed to
fly there in the first place. Shane Mage even has the absolute gall to
begin this thread with the claim that because Ukraine gave international
civilian aircraft the right to cross Ukraine about 32,000 ft., if they so
chose, that, and I quote! Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder.

Here's a News Flash Shane: Major air carriers and air traffic organizations
track conflict zones as well as weather patterns and they hope every
country will open their airspace to transit by international civilian
traffic, and that's how they schedule the routes. They all know the risks
and they should have known that Putin was putting BUKs in the hands of
thugs like Igor Bezler, still they have to fly somewhere.

The short answer is that its a bad world out there and as a result
commercial aircraft overfly war zones all the time and generally speaking
because of the very high attitude of these flights, they are safe.

According to the a href=
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-why-planes-fly-over-warzones-9615967.html;Independent/a,
before the loss of MH17, flights over east Ukraine where restricted only
below 32,000 ft - Flight Level 320. MH17 was assigned FL330 - 33,000 ft.

Because MH 17 was cruising at 10 km, it was in no danger from MANPADS. They
can't reach that high. The Ukrainian AN-26 can't fly that high either. Only
the Ukrainian IL-76 military transport, with a ceiling of 13km could have
been seen were the Boeing 777 was. It is not a bomber and the Ukrainians
haven't been conducting air attacks from 10km so the argument that shooting
down a plane at 10km [ which require very special and expensive missiles ]
was necessary air defense is weak. But once you've justified the killing of
40 Ukrainian soldiers and a crew of 9 flying over Ukraine in a Ukrainian
air force transport by pro-Russian separatists who apparently can go
operational with extremely advanced crew served anti-aircraft weapons
systems, and who are also backed by Russian armor and air power.

So yes, once you've learned to justify Russian imperialist military
aggression in the Ukraine with reference to what I want the FSA to have for
self-defense against that aggression in Syria, I guess all things are
possible. But please remember, I have never advocated supplying the FSA
with weapons that could take out aircraft cruising at 10km. The range of a
MANPADS, about 4.5km will do nicely. Thank You.

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[Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...

2014-07-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Robert Parry uses the Obama's administration's Rush to Judgement as to
Assad's responsibility for the August sarin gas attack, which we all know
was disproved by an assortment of conspiracy theories, as a cautionary tale
against jumping to conclusions about Putin and MH 17.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

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[Marxism] You listen decide - Is this voice of man who shot down MH 17?

2014-07-20 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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from Linux Beach:


 You listen  decide - Is this voice of man who shot down MH 17?
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-listen-decide-is-this-voice-of-mand.html

On the same day that Malaysia Air flight MH 17 was shot down by a 
surface-to-air missile with the loss of life of all 298 passengers and 
crew aboard on 17 July 2014, the Ukrainian Security Service [SBU] 
posted a video to You Tube which they said contained a recording of 
Igor Bezler, A Russian GRU agent saying they had just shot down an 
aircraft. I reported on this inmy blog 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/who-was-igor-bezler-before-he-shot-down.html 
on Thursday.


Today I am presenting a You Tube video I have produced that is a 
composition of three different recordings all of which claim to be of 
Igor Bezler. In the first [1] he is reporting that they have just shot 
down a plane 25 minutes after flight MH 17 goes missing. It is from 
http://youtu.be/BbyZYgSXdyw The 2nd [2] is from an earlier intercept 
on 17 April 2014 of someone identified as Igor Bezler plotting kidnap 
and murder and uploaded to YouTube by the SBU on 24 April 2014. It is 
from http://youtu.be/sA8Co1Sglgs. The 3rd [3] is from a video 
presentation by Igor Bezler on 12 June 2014. It is a studio recording 
and of higher quality than the intercepts. It is from 
http://youtu.be/Xb4xyvWKTrw. You will hear nothing in this video but 
those three segments. The order is [1] [2] [1] [3] [1]. Are they they 
same voice? Is the person claiming credit for killing 298 people on 
17th July, the same one who is speaking here on 17 April and 12 June. 
Is Igor Bezler guilty of the murder of 298 people? You listen and you 
decide.


*More...* 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-listen-decide-is-this-voice-of-mand.html


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Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder

2014-07-20 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 07/20/2014 02:09 AM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism wrote:

 I don't think the question is one of blame. Accidents happen.

 MK: Exactly. So we need to separate the informational issue of whose
 accident it was from the idea that this has some connection to the
 politics if the conflict. 
I don't think we can just blow this off with shit happens.

A very aggressive decision was made to take out a plane at 33,000 ft.
This was not a plane involved in air attacks. It followed threats to
attack anything flying over Eastern Ukraine and it required especially
trained crews and weapons. Also see;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/why-ukraine-erupted-again.html
 Russia has been escalating its war in Ukraine for weeks. The urgency
 to win turned to recklessness.

 President Putin has been recklessly escalating the crisis in eastern
 Ukraine since he was embarrassed and outmaneuvered by the Ukrainian
 president three weeks ago. Allowing a passenger jet to be shot down is
 the act of an increasingly desperate man.

 The Kremlin ordered tanks, heavy weapons and Russian fighters to pour
 over the border stoking up the crisis until tragedy struck. We should
 have seen it coming; on Wednesday morning the front page of Foreign
 Policy magazine had a headline that should have sent shockwaves
 through the geopolitical landscape: Russia Is Firing Missiles At
 Ukraine
 http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/16/russia_is_firing_missiles_at_ukraine_grad_rockets_us_sanctions.

 The story followed several Russian citizens posting videos to social
 media which they said show GRAD rockets being fired from Russian
 territory toward Ukraine. By triangulating the different camera
 angles, my team at The Interpreter proved that the unguided rockets
 were indeed being fired into Ukraine from Russia. Thursday morning,
 there were reports that a group of Ukrainian soldiers had been hit by
 the rocket fire and were actually receiving medical treatment on the
 other side of the border, ironically enough in the same town from
 which the rockets had been launched in the first place.

 This should have been huge news. How could things in Ukraine have
 deteriorated to the point where Putin was now engaged in such a
 reckless act of aggression? Of course, it was huge news... but for
 only a few hours. Quickly this headline was buried under the news that
 another Malaysian airlines flight was missing, and evidence is
 steadily growing that either Russian-backed separatists or Russia
 itself may have fired the missile that brought it down.While much of
 the media is trying to figure out who shot this aircraft down, with
 what weapon and where it was obtained, it might be more instructive to
 focus instead on the 'whys' of this incident.

 Why would Putin want to shoot down a commercial airliner? And if it
 was an accident, why would Putin allow the separatists to have a
 weapon this powerful without having full control over how it was used?

 The answer to that question reveals that the situation in Ukraine, and
 in Moscow, is much, much worse than many had feared.

 The first thing we have to understand is that the Kremlin spent a lot
 of time and money to bring down, either deliberately or accidentally,
 Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. The prime suspect is a Buk
 surface-to-air missile system
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system. This is not a
 shoulder-fired weapon easily smuggled across the border, a
 point-and-shoot heat-seeking weapon that could be used with little
 training by anyone who got their hands on it. This is an advanced and
 battle-proven series of highly sophisticated vehicles which coordinate
 to track targets with radar and fire missiles so advanced that they
 were designed to knock smart bombs and cruise missiles out of the sky.
 Whoever launched this weapon was highly trained and extremely
 well-equipped.



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[Marxism] Russian lies on #MH17 are so easy to bust!

2014-07-21 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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More Linux Beach coverage on the controversies surrounding Malaysia Air
flight MH 17:


  Russian lies on #MH17 are so easy to bust!
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/russian-lies-on-mh17-are-so-easy-to-bust.html

 The Russian lies and fabrications relating to Malaysia Air flight MH
 17 have been coming fast and furious in the past last 48 hours. The
 general theme appears to be to push a false flag narrative similar to
 the one they had some success in selling with regards to the sarin gas
 attacks that took place in the Damascus suburbs the night of 21th
 August. There, in spite of all the damning evidence
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/09/who-used-sarin-in-syria.html
 that Assad was behind the deed, including the UN conclusion that the
 sarin used came from his stockpiles
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/03/un-assad-sarin-used-in-attacks-lefts.html,
 Putin and his minions supported a story that Assad's opposition
 poisoned their own people and made it look like Assad did it in the
 vain hope that it would provoke western military intervention on their
 side.

 Now they are selling the narrative that the downing of MH17 was
 actually a false-flag attack. They are /implying/ that the Ukrainian
 government shot down the plane and fabricated evidence to pin it on
 the pro-Russian forces in the hopes that it will provoke western
 military intervention on their side.

 Fortunately, some of their stories have been put together so quickly
 and are so sloppy that they can easily be disproved, even by a blogger
 in Venice that isn't an expert in anything. Call this /the Case of the
 Plane that couldn't fly that high./

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/russian-lies-on-mh17-are-so-easy-to-bust.html



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[Marxism] Russian Military Intelligence poor record for truth telling

2014-07-22 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Russian military intelligence has often been cited recently for proof
that somebody else has been behind a grand conspiracy to shoot down
flight MH17 and blame it on the Russians, but they have a poor record of
truth telling.

In this 30 June 2011 blog post Did Qaddafi Bomb Peaceful Protesters?
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2011/06/did-qaddafi-bomb-peaceful-protesters_7599.html
I caught them in an earlier lie. Briefly, RT and other pro-Qaddafi
sources were using Russian military intelligence reports to contradict
reports that Qaddafi was using his Migs to attack protesters. The
Russian military, monitoring the unrest via satellite from the very
beginning, says nothing of the sort was going on on the ground.  Then
Saif Qaddafi told Amonpour that they were only bombing ammo dumps not
protesters! Oops.



-- 
Clay Claiborne, Owner
Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/
116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9
Venice Beach, CA 90291
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(323) 219-6507 cell

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Re: [Marxism] Russian Military Intelligence poor record for truth telling

2014-07-23 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Ukraine ALLOWED  over 100 planes a day to fly over a conflict zone. If
FORCED zero to do so. Should civilian planes be ALLOWED to fly over Syria,
Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Congo, Sudan, CAR, etc. I'd like to see your map
of where planes should be ALLOWED to fly.

The real question is how long Russian attacks on Ukraine will be ALLOWED -
and defended by people on this list.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 7:27 AM, DW via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
 wrote:

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 Why should they even bother? I've already discredited those reports.
 Russia
 showed graphics [not data] that had an Su-25 tracking MH17 at 10km. I've
 already shown the Su-25 has a ceiling of 7km when it isn't carrying any
 arms.

 So? An Su-25 flying at 20,000 feet can quite easily shadow a passenger
 liner flying at 33,000 ft. Why is his even a comment? Don't you know that
 an Su-25 can be a 1,000 feet and shoot down a plane at 40,000 feet? It can
 piggey back ground based phased-array radar to it's own upgraded weapons
 system and shoot any variety of air-to-air missiles to take it out. It's a
 flying BUK if you will. I think the Separatists shot it down but I can
 see the Ukrainian gov't, that ALLOWED this plane to fly over a military
 conflict zone, quite happy about the Russians shooting it down. The point
 is the 'ceiling' is a wholly irrelevant point unless it was going to use
 it's cannons to shoot it down.

 David
 
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[Marxism] On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine

2014-07-23 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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With all the focus on the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine and the
struggle of pro-Russian separatists, it should be lost on nobody that an
imperialist Russia is conducting a war of aggression against its smaller
neighbour, Ukraine. Those were Russian troops that occupied Crimea before
it was annexed. More recently Russia has become even more aggressive and we
have seen reports of Russian armor, operating under Russian flags entering
Eastern Ukraine, for the first time - of course we are suppose to be stupid
about where the separatists get their heavy weapons from. We also have
reports of missiles being fired into Ukraine from Russia and Russian war
planes downing Ukrainian planes. So quite apart of the demands and
organization of pro-Russian Ukrainians in the east, we have a Russian war
of aggression against Ukraine.

Now to the case of MH17. We have the Ukrainian telephone intercepts. I
believe they are accurate and have gone into detail as to why I think that.
I have also debunked the Russian experts claims that they are fake. The
story they tell is that the shoot down of MH17 was an accident on the part
of the pro-Russian forces. They first thought it was a Ukrainian military
plane and then found out otherwise. This is an explanation I can believe,
although I would add that such an accident was the inevitable result of
Putin's aggressive attempts to impose a no-fly zone over part of the
country he is attacking.

The Russian response is that Ukraine did it and it was no accident but the
sacrifice of 298 lives by Ukraine in the hopes of winning support for its
side, just as the FSA was willing to use sarin on its own people for the
same reason. Their story has many parts. One is that the Ukrainian
intercepts are fakes, prepared well in advance, another is that MH17 was
filled with corpse in the first place, and another is that an Su-25 was
tracking (and possibly shot down) MH17. All of this implies some grand
conspiracy involving multiple branches of the Ukrainian government with
advanced planning and support from the US and possibly also Malaysia Air.

This is why I regard all those that try to argue that technically an Su-25
could shoot down MH17, leaving aside why anyone in the Ukrainian air force
would even choose a plane so unequal to the task when they have much
better, and all the other aspects of the implausible Russian tale, as first
rank Putin apologists.

Now to the question of who shot down MH17, one man, Igor Bezler, claimed
We have just shot down a plane, and the only plane he could be referring
to is MH17. So who does Igor Bezler work for? If we can answer that we know
who shot down MH17. Bezler claims to be a separatist militia leader of
Horivka, but he is also a Russian GRU agent. He was soviet army airborne in
Afghanistan. Until 2002 he was a Lieutenant Colonel in the GRU, a few years
ago he retired to eastern Ukraine. He was involved in the annexation of
Crimea before turning up in Donestsk. He was talking to another Russian
officer when he reported the downed jet. So is Bezler still under the same
command he has been under for more than 20 years or is he a renege from it?
If he still honors the Russian command, that could explain how he got
control of a BUK. It also means Russia shot down MH17 as part of its war of
aggression against Ukraine and thus even though it be an accident it was
manslaughter committed during the commission of a violent crime, meaning
Russia should be charged with 298 counts of murder in the first degree by
any laws I would respect.


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

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Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-25 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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when NATO attacked Sirte, there were Gaza-like casualties I know that was
widely claimed by the pro-Qaddafi crowd at the time but where's the proof?
I've never seen a specific number attached to the charge that NATO killed
civilians in Sirte or even specific names so I would very much like to see
the facts behind this statement.

it is best to oppose imperialist intervention across the board works for
all those without someone they cared about in Benghazi when Qaddafi's
artillery was about to open fire. Its a policy that doesn't work well for
revolutionaries in the real world that find they must exploit every
advantage, even inter-imperialist rivalries, to win. When the American
revolutionaries accepted French support, the Viet Minh accepted US OSS
weapons, or the Libyans accepted NATO air cover, giving the imperialists
good deeds to point to wasn't their biggest problem.

Andrew is right that ground troops pose the least danger to civilians. We
all know how PD swat teams take down bad guys in an apartment building full
of civilians. Nobody in LA would accept the LAPD slamming a missile into a
building and excusing it by saying the drug dealers or whoever were using
civilians as human shields.

HRW did not attempt to count every civilian death resulting from the
bombing, but only those ascribable to eight specific incidents which it
investigated.

That is wrong. Lenin's Tomb is implying that HRW was doing some sort of
sampling, whereas HRW says This report documents civilian casualties in
the air campaign by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Libya
in 2011. They reported on eight incidents including all reported to them
by the Qaddafi regime. Those that claim this report is too limited in scope
and leaves others uncounted, shouldn't be making nonsense arguments like:

this is not a comprehensive figure, but one based on an examination of
twenty NATO air strikes (out of 17,939 sorties) from which five were shown
to have led to civilian casualties. Clearly, the twenty strikes surveyed
cannot be representative, or the total number of deaths would be many times
higher than even the highest estimates.

All they have to do, and they've now had several years and a relatively
free [from the investigative standpoint] Libya to do it in, is document one
or more civilian deaths not named in the HRW or even more limited UN
report. This also applies to the claims of civilian deaths caused by NATO
in Sirte. All those who want to overthrow the NYTimes, UN  HRW studies
that put unintended NATO civilian deaths at ~72 just need to document a
significant number of such civilian deaths not counted by them. Babbling on
about how there must be more deaths because they believe there must be
doesn't cut it, whereas names and numbers will blow them out of the water.

Ditto the question what deaths were 'accidental.' Since there were
civilians NATO considered legitimate targets we are talking about the
number of civilians they killed that they did not target. Two questions
arise from this 1) What makes a person a legit civilian target in their
eyes? 2) Are they killing large numbers of civilians by using a very loose
definition of 1? Since we are talking about battles already fought, again
this simply requires the submission of names and numbers not already on the
list. General speculation won't do.

As to the Hitchens analogy. The one who made that comment apparently is
ignorant of my analysis of why NATO was willing to extend a helping hand to
the Libyan revolutionaries. It has everything to do with the need for
Libya's light sweet crude and European economic crisis and nothing to do
with imperialist enlightenment. I simply disagree they those that think
the revolutionaries should have turned down that help [ and let their
people be slaughtered Assad style ] because it was offered for
self-interested or even nefarious reasons, or especially because it would
help to legitimize the worst of cases.

As bad as Libya's current problems are, they are all of the general types
that must be faced after any revolution, and it is hard to associate them
with NATO's intervention beyond implying that NATO allowed the revolution
to win and Libya would be better off today with a Qaddafi victory. Contrary
to all the warnings that NATO support could only result in a NATO puppet
government and NATO boots on the ground, there never were boots on the
ground and Libya's current problem is much more no government than puppet
government.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-25 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I also consider C. J. Chivers very creditable [ we follow each other on
twitter ] His NY Times study is one of three I have generally cited to
back my view that NATO caused relatively few civilian causalities in
Libya. The UN put the number at 60, HRW said 72, this NYTimes report
reviewed 150 incidents at 25 locations and put the number at 40-70. None
have claimed they were just sampling and none claimed they had counted
all possible civilian causalities, just all they knew about. I have
generally said less than a hundred feeling that I was still allowing a
wide margin for new deaths to be incorporated in the count.

In Sirte, they document 7 women and children killed on 25 Sept when the
home of a Brig General was bombed. They also document another woman,
Aisha Abdujodil, killed when her apartment building was bombed. That
makes 9 of the 40-72, and while, as their narrative makes clear, every
death is an individual tragedy, I still have seen no facts that back up
a claim that NATO caused massive civilian deaths in Sirte.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at theLinux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ 



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Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 07/26/2014 04:20 AM, Lenin's Tomb wrote:
 So, to be clear: 

 I point out that the “studies” you are citing /neither attempt nor
 claim/ to be comprehensive estimates of civilian deaths arising from
 NATO’s bombing campaign.

 And your response is to demand of me that I supplement their data by
 providing documented instances of civilian casualties not counted by
 them.  

 I’m afraid you’re simply not thinking.

Lenin's Tomb examples the Left's main error on Libya, which is its
failure to learn from its mistakes. Lenin's Tomb has now demonstratively
been wrong on Libya but rather than examining its past analysis for
errors, it ignores them and doubles down on its generally negative
assessment of the Libyan Revolution. Let's examine the record:

In March 2011
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2011/03/un-votes-for-libya-air-strikes.html this
was its best-case scenario for the Libyan revolution, which it thought
unlikely:

The best-case scenario is that people are killed to little avail,
and the former regime elements in the transitional leadership have
just diverted energies and initiative down a blind alley. I suppose
you might object that the best-case scenario is that the air strikes
exclusively kill the bad guys, turning the initiative in favour of
the revolutionaries, allowing them to sieze power, build a liberal
democratic state, and the cavalry heads home. And the band played,
'Believe it if you like'.

My assessment of what did happen is that the air strikes killed 90-95%
bad guys, did turn the initiative in favor of the revolutionaries
allowing them to seize power and then the cavalry flew home. Process of
rebuilding the state virtually from scratch, and not in the way Lenin's
Tomb envisioned, is on going and continues to be the center of political
struggle.

In April 2011
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2011/04/springtime-for-nato-in-libya.html,
Lenin's Tomb offered the opinion that after NATO intervention only a
puppet government could emerge:

Can I just risk a modest proposition? NATO, the CIA and the special
forces belonging to the world's imperialist states are not forces of
progress in this world. Does anyone disagree with that? If not, then
it follows as surely as night follows day that the successful
cooptation of the Libyan revolution by NATO, the CIA and special
forces is a victory for reaction. It's no good hoping that the
small, poorly armed, poorly trained militias of the east of Libya,
who are now utterly dependent on external support, will somehow
shake themselves free of such constraints once - if - they take power.

LT thought the most likely outcome would be a deal brokered by NATO that
left the Qaddafi state machinery in place:

they [NATO] offer a prolonged civil war at best culminating in a
settlement with Saif and his sibling.

Given events in Syria, I wouldn't call Libya's civil war prolonged and
Saif's relation to state power is detention awaking trial. LT elaborates:

Yes, I know. A negotiated settlement would be a step back from
outright victory for the rebels. But that is an increasingly
improbable outcome anyway, and I thought we were trying to save
lives here? And as it happens, a diplomatic solution seems to be
exactly what is on the cards now.

LT came to the conclusion early that the Libyan Revolution had been
converted into the US War on Libya:

The opposition leaders are now adjuncts to a NATO strategy which may
not even have been disclosed to them. Let's at least give credit
where it's due. This is NATO's war. And that means, this is
Washington's war.

As things developed, the US never flew more than about 17% of the strike
missions in what LT had called Washington's war, so LT changed its
position accordingly, in April
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2011/04/where-is-bombing-of-libya-going.html
predicting a Qaddafi victory unless NATO put in troops:

The US is pulling out of the air war, amid divisions and
recriminations, and is saying that it will not engage in the
training or arming of the rebels. In short, it is retreating from
any explicit military involvement in the Libyan revolt. This may
amount to an admission of failure.

Qadhafi's recent recovery in some parts of the country may be
reversed, but he is unlikely to lose the core western territories
that he now commands. Is this the kind of stability that is sought?
A constant war of attrition between two slightly better matched
forces? What's the alternative, apart from a land invasion?

LT thought http://www.leninology.co.uk/2011/08/libya-downfall.html
Washington's war would ultimately result in a re-constituted Qaddafi
regime. This was said in August 

Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 07/26/2014 08:38 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote:
 the US and EU have arguably done more to provoke the crisis than has Russia. 
Russia side of ledger:

Thousands of unmarked Russia troops occupying Crimea.
The annexation of Crimea by Russia
The infiltration of thousands of Russian agents in east Ukraine to build
a separatist movement.
Providing armor and advanced anti-aircraft weapons to its military
forces fighting in Ukraine.
Filling its media with lies and fabrications about Ukraine
http://www.stopfake.org/en/russia-s-top-lies-about-ukraine-part-1/
http://www.stopfake.org/en/russia-s-top-lies-about-ukraine-part-2/
Using the Russian air force against Ukraine
Firing artillery into Ukraine.

And on the US  EU side of the ledger we have what exactly?

And why are we even having this conversation? Is it your job, Marv, to
distract us from discussing the real world?

Clay


 


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Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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LT,

I really had nothing to add to the original subject of how many civilians
NATO killed in Libya. The most anybody has counted is 72, we both agree
there may be more, you cling to the notion that there are a lot more but
feel no responsibility to say who they were and where they died.

I think you take this stand because you still need to believe in a set of
facts that support the conclusions you made about NATO's war over Libya
even before it began. My longer response was designed to explore the range
of wrong opinions about Libya that you are still trying to defend when you
should be trying to help the Libyan people succeed.

I hope that chapter you are re-writing is about Libya.

Clay


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

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Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza

2014-07-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 07/26/2014 05:36 PM, Michael Karadjis wrote:

 The problem with this discussion when it comes to Sirte is that, even
 if you convinced yourself that not many civilians were killed there
I didn't say and I don't think that few civilians were killed in the
battle of Sirte. Many were, but not by NATO. The battle of Sirte was
brutal and it was under siege for a long time and heavily damaged by
opposition artillery. Later the pro-Qaddafi forces circulated these
pictures of artillery damage in Sirte but labeled it NATO bomb damage
and began the myth of massive civilian casualties caused by NATO in
Sirte. During the Battle of Sirte, 15 Sept - 20 Oct, NATO carried out 45
strikes on buildings in Sirte, all designated as military
ammunition/storage facilities, command and control nodes, military
vehicle storage facilities, military barracks facility, etc and 117
strikes on vehicles, tanks, missile launchers and radar facilities.

   bombing the hell out of this city.
That is certainly a Qaddafi friendly way to describe the above air activity.

 then surely such support or toleration should only be for the most
 minimum time necessary. 
Would that be for as long as Qaddafi persisted in killing civilians or
only until he brought his targeting of civilians below a certain
threshold? Did NATO's responsibility encompass the siege of Misrata too
or only Benghazi? At what point was NATO relieved of its responsibility
to protect civilians? At what point did Qaddafi stop attacking civilians?
 In fact even Gilbert Achcar, who was essentially misquoted as
 supporting (rather than not opposing) the initial intervention to
 protect Benghazi, said within a couple of weeks of that event, that
 once that was done, if NATO settles in for a more prolonged
 involvement, we should vigorously demand NATO out.
That answers my question. Misrata was SOL as far as the socialists
were concerned.
 Whatever Gaddafi was, 
meaning even if he was a fascist, racist, mad dog killer.
 I don' think socialists should have supported a 6-month NATO
 intervention fighting on the side of the NTC to help bring it to power
 in Libya.

socialists shouldn't support his overthrow once NATO offered to help.
  Gaddafi fell in August, yet the bloody sieges of Sirte and Bani Walid
 continued for another two full months. 
Micheal may have known he fell in August but that fact wasn't clear to
either the Qaddafi forces or the rest of the world until Sirte and Bani
Walid fell.

  surely the roles by now were completely reversed: 
In both Sirte and Bani Walid, the Qaddafi regime refused to let
civilians leave the areas under siege. Truly they were using them as
human shields. That is why those sieges were so drawn out. The NTC was
trying to win them with a minimum further lost of life. The true
banality of the Qaddafi regime showed nowhere as in these last two
battles because after the fall of Tripoli it had to be clear to all
involved just how things were doing to turn out. Still the Qaddafi
forces barricaded themselves in these two strongholds, refused to let
the people leave [ and most did want to flee the scene of a battle ] ,
used summary executions to keep them there and forced a series of very
bloody, if hopeless battles at the end. This was not a reversal of
roles, this was a continuation of Qaddafi's same policies even when they
had become irrational. Under these circumstances I don't think NATO's
responsibility to protect would have been served by washing their hands
of these final battles, as Michael wishes, so much as using their air
power and smart weaponry to much more quickly reduce Qaddafi's military
power with considerably less danger to civilians than the NTC's artillery. 


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[Marxism] Fwd: Famous last words on Libya

2014-07-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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 Original Message 
Subject:Famous last
Date:   Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:30:16 -0700
From:   Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com




 I think the notion of 'no fly zone' is a lot of prettifying spin.  If
 it simply means wiping out Gaddafi's planes and helicopters, so he
 can't fly, that's rather easily done. Then what? Obviously, it means
 much more than that, and we are watching it unfold. What it really
 means is to use NATO air and sea power to destroy Gadaffi and his
 regime and supporters, regardless of 'collateral damage.'  And its
 turning out not to be easy without trained and disciplined 'boots on
 the ground.' Whether Obama and NATO are willing to take that step is
 what they are up against, and that is the step Kucinich is trying to
 block--and I agree with him.  Their initial claim that Gadaffi could
 be wiped out with a week or two of air strikes has been proven wrong.
 The question for you and Gilbert is whether you are willing to go the
 distance to supporting a NATO invasion and occupation, and still call
 the results progressive.
Carl Davidson, Jul 11, email to me.



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Re: [Marxism] Stockman On Dominoes, WMDs And Putin’s “Aggression”: Imperial Washington Is Intoxicated By Another Big Lie

2014-07-30 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I tend not to read things that make gross factual errors designed to serve
a political agenda in the first sentence. The 5 billion was spent in the
last 23 years, not the last decade as this piece states. Judging from the
rest of this short excerpt, it doesn't improve.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Shane Mage via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:


 in any event, it was the $5 billion that Washington spent during the last
 decade meddling in Ukrainian politics,


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[Marxism] 50 years ago today: Tonkin false flag attack kills millions

2014-08-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Today from Linux Beach:


  50 years ago today: Tonkin false flag attack kills millions
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/50-years-ago-today-tonkin-false-flag.html

 /This ship is allegedly uh to be attacked tonight./
   - Defense Secretary to President before phony
 attack http://www2.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm.

 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q5Z5lKyucR4/UZO95ojw5wI/ATU/wx3T6557G5M/s1600/VAH-Danang-800.jpg
 Fifty years ago today, on the 4th of August 1964, the claim was made
 that North Vietnamese PT boats attacked US warships in the Gulf of
 Tonkin. Based on that claim, Congress passed the /Gulf of Tonkin/
 resolution empowering the Commander-in-Chief to /do whatever may be
 necessary./ As a result of what was seen as /necessary,/ more than
 fifty-thousand Americans and some three million Vietnamese would be
 slaughtered over the next eight years in the war authorized by the
 Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

 However, the claimed 4th of August attacks that were the casus belli
 for the Vietnam War never took place. It was a hoax perpetrated on the
 World by the White House and as I revealed in *Vietnam: American
 Holocaust http://vietnamamericanholocaust.com/*, US President Lyndon
 B Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S McNamara were at the
 center of it.

 White House recordings are made public after forty years, so one
 advantage I had in doing this documentary in 2006-2008, as compared to
 earlier works, was access to White House tapes [ as well as other
 documentation released by statue after 40 years. ] for those war
 years. This included the White House tapes for 4 August 1964, the day
 of the so-called Gulf of Tonkin attack. This co-incidentally was also
 the day that the FBI found the three slain civil rights workers.
 [/Mississippi Burning/] They reported to the White House which then
 decided how to make the news public. All and all a /big news/ day at
 the White House and the recordings are an incredible record of how LBJ
 juggled these two major events.

 a day in the life...August 4, 1964


 *At 9:15pm* LBJ is on the phone planning his announcement of the
 bombing of North Vietnam in response to the alleged Gulf of Tonkin
 attacks and tells McNamara /I don't see why we bring Goldwater in
 on this. Why don't we just say I felt it appropriate just to
 communicate my decision to the Republican candidate for president.
 And I'll say he's assured me of his full support. I think it makes
 us sound like we're very much together and buddies and agreein' on
 bombing everybody./

 *Twenty minutes later* he is on the phone with the Governor of
 Mississippi about the found bodies of Michael Schwerner, Andrew
 Goodman, and James Chaney. He tells the Govenor /I've been in
 this Vietnam Security Council and we're, uh, we're having to
 retaliate out there tonight, uh, that this shooting that took
 place at our destroyer today. I'm goin' on television after a
 while, as soon as I get our planes off the ground, and tell the
 people about it./

 Then he gets to the business of finding the killers of the civil
 rights workers. The President tells the Governor /I thought I'd
 better talk to you. I know you're gonna do everything you can to
 apprehend 'em. And anyway in the world we can help, we want to do
 it./ When the Governor pledges continued cooperation, Johnson
 tells him /You've, uh, you certainly, uh, acted fine under all
 the circumstances. And I certainly do appreciate you attitude and
 your cooperation./ 

 Most significantly, the first discussion of the North Vietnamese
 /surprise/ attack takes place before the attack with McNamara and
 Johnson already planning their response /in the event this attack
 takes place within the next six to nine hours. /No such attack took
 place 50 years ago today even though it was dutifully reported by the
 task force commander and used to justify a war by the President. While
 it has long been conceded, even in the official Navy records
 http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-m/dd731-k.htm that
 /that there was actually no North Vietnamese attack that night,
 /These recordings provide the /smoking gun/ that shows the fraud
 used to justify the murder of millions involved the very highest
 levels of the US government.

 *Vietnam: American Holocaust* was the first documentary to reveal this
 /smoking gun/ to the World. Below is the screenplay of the section
 on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident from the film: 

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/50-years-ago-today-tonkin-false-flag.html





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[Marxism] Israel massacres Gaza - Like Shooting Fish in a Barrel

2014-08-05 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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/Today from Linux Beach:/


  Israel massacres Gaza - Like Shooting Fish in a Barrel
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/israel-massacres-gaza-like-shooting.html

 Israel is a European-American settler state in Palestine. The Bible
 stories of the Old Testament and the Torah gave it a mythological
 history. The holocaust of the Jews in Europe created the 20th century
 impetus. But it remains, at heart, what most such settler states are,
 a land grab aimed at taking a section of the Earth's surface [and
 what's under it!] away from the indigenous population and putting it
 under the control of the /settlers./

 The United States grew out of a settler state, so did Australia.
 Calling themselves /settlers/ was already a part of their mythology.
 They pretended that they were settling an /unsettled/ land. They
 pretended that there weren't already people living on that land that
 they intended to remove by force and murder. The Zionists promoted the
 myth of /A land without a people for a people without a land/ and as
 soon as they got a mandate, they started removing Palestinians from
 the land.

 Palestine was already a colonial land under British rule, and fighting
 against it, when large parts of it were given over to European Jews to
 form the settler state of Israel. Using one excuse or another, the
 amount of land under settler control as steadily increased since 1948
 [the year I was born] because that's what settler states do. They tend
 to gobble up all the land to the water's edge and beyond - if you let
 them.

 This brings us to Israel's latest offensive in Gaza and the thousands
 of Palestinians Israel is now killing there. It's an operation they
 refer to as /mowing the lawn./ It is a procedure of the occupation
 and and continuation of the Zionist effort to rid Palestine of
 Palestinians. All the talk about tunnels and rockets is besides the
 point, however the Palestinians resist, Israel would complain.

 Every time Israel massacres another school or UN center, President
 Obama repeats his mantra about Israel's /right to defend itself/ and
 every time he says this he green-lights another massacre. As long as
 Israel is carrying on the occupation and as long as it is expanding
 settlements, both illegal under international law, its claim to a
 right to self-defense have as much standing as that of a bank robber's
 claim to a right to self-defense  while committing a bank robbery.

*More ...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/israel-massacres-gaza-like-shooting.html
including Einstein's 1948 letter on Israel



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[Marxism] Libya on the Brink

2014-08-07 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Today from Linux Beach:


  Libya on the Brink
  http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/libya-on-brink.html

 The new congress elected 25 June held its first official session
 Monday in Tobruk as the rejected Islamist dominated congress vows to
 continue meeting in Tripoli. 4 August had been set as the date for the
 power transfer. Because the Islamists have controlled the General
 National Congress since the last election and like the power, this
 transfer is being strongly resisted. This has also lead to fierce
 fighting over control of the Tripoli Airport which has long been under
 the control of militias protected by the Islamists dominated congress.
 Meanwhile the renege General Khalifa Haftar has been leading a much
 needed struggle against the Islamist militias but he is not trusted by
 most Libyans because of his past Qaddafi and alleged CIA ties. Few
 want to see a new strongman running Libya.

 The violence in post-Qaddafi Libya has reached new peaks in recent
 weeks, many on the /anti-imperialist/ Left have been gleefully
 predicting total collapse, pointing to their opposition to UN and NATO
 intervention and saying /I told you so./ They find it convenient to
 forget that this is not what they predicted at the time.

 At the time they predicted the NATO air campaign would lead to NATO
 /boots on the ground/ and an occupied Libya which would also become
 the new home of AFRICOM. They called the Transitional National Council
 a puppet organization and predicted that any future government enabled
 by NATO's support would necessarily be an instrument of Western
 imperialism that would sell-out the Libyan people and their resources.
 As Carl Davison wrote me about the NATO project on 11 July 2011:

*More...* http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/libya-on-brink.html

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[Marxism] On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine MH17

2014-08-08 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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New from Linux Beach:


  On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine  MH17
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-russias-war-of-aggression-against.html

 With all the focus on the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine and
 the struggle of pro-Russian separatists, it should be lost on nobody
 that an imperialist Russia is conducting a war of aggression against
 its smaller neighbour, Ukraine. Those were Russian troops that
 occupied Crimea http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26379722 before
 it was annexed. More recently Russia has become even more aggressive
 and we have seen reports of Russian armor entering Eastern Ukraine
 http://online.wsj.com/articles/nato-says-images-show-russian-tanks-in-ukraine-1402760713
  
 - of course we are suppose to be stupid about where the
 /separatists/ get /their/ heavy weapons. We also have reports of
 missiles being fired into Ukraine from Russia
 http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/16/russia_is_firing_missiles_at_ukraine_grad_rockets_us_sanctions
 and Russian warplanes downing Ukrainian planes
 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/earlier-downing-of-transport-plane-over-ukraine-foreshadowed-tragedy.html?_r=0.
 So quite apart of the demands and organization of pro-Russian
 Ukrainians in the east, we have a Russian war of aggression against
 Ukraine.

 Now to the case of MH17. We have the Ukrainian telephone intercepts
 http://www.sbu.gov.ua/sbu/control/uk/publish/article?art_id=129035cat_id=39574.
 I believe they are accurate
 http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-recordings-ukraine-rebels-admitting-mh17-downing-161443402.html
 and have gone into detail http://youtu.be/xT66VFuTYVc as to why I
 think that. I have also debunked the Russian /expert's/
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/07/us-recordings-on-pro-russian-downing-of.html
 claim that they are fake. The story they tell is that the shoot down
 of MH17 was an accident on the part of the pro-Russian forces. They
 first thought it was a Ukrainian military plane and then found out
 otherwise. This is an explanation I can believe, although I would add
 that such an accident was the inevitable result of Putin's aggressive
 attempts to impose a no-fly zone over part of the country he is attacking.

 The Russian response is that Ukraine did it and it was no accident but
 the sacrifice of 298 lives by Ukraine in the hopes of winning support
 for its side, just as, according to Putin and Assad, the Free Syrian
 Army was willing to use sarin on its own people for the same reason. I
 have recently been reminded just how common this twisted logic is
 after reviewing events surrounding the /Mississippi Burning/ murder
 of three civil rights workers in 1964. The KKK city officials
 suggested the civil rights movement disappeared the three kids
 themselves in a ploy to get the federal government involved! Those
 /anti-imperialists/ who rallied to Assad's claim that the rebels
 gassed themselves in hopes of provoking NATO intervention? This is the
 company they keep. 

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-russias-war-of-aggression-against.html

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Quand la peur change de camp: Fathers of ISIS

2014-08-22 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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ISIS stands for Islamic State
of Iraq and al Sham. I tend not read authorities on ISIS that can't even
get the name right.
On Aug 22, 2014 11:04 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 The organization abbreviated as ISIS (Islamic State in Iraq and Syria) is
 not new in the region, nor is it a newfound expression of the crises
 afflicting Arab societies at a moment of profound transformations,
 initiated by 2011 revolutions.

 To the contrary, ISIS is the offspring of more than one father, and the
 product of more than one longstanding and widespread sickness. The
 organization’s explosive growth today is in fact the result of previously
 existing, worsening conflicts that were caused by the different fathers.


 full: http://vendredis-arabes.blogspot.fr/2014/08/fathers-of-isis.html
 
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[Marxism] Some thoughts on Michael Brown the Law in St. Louis

2014-08-23 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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New from Linux Beach:


 Some thoughts on Michael Brown  the Law in St. Louis
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/some-thoughts-on-michael-brown-law-in.html

I've been busy in San Antonio this week learning a new job so I 
haven't had time for blogging. Haven't had time for much of anything 
else. That doesn't mean my heart hasn't been with the protesters in 
Ferguson, especially since I have my own history with St. Louis law 
enforcement. Now comes the weekend, which suddenly has new meaning for 
me, like time to write a blog.


Before I get to my own experiences, I have a few words for the media, 
especially CNN. I'm working second shift and I have been catching 
their late night coverage from my Home2 @ the Hilton:


What you don't seem to get is that it isn't particularly about what 
Michael Brown did or whether Officer Darren Wilson was justified in 
killing him. Its about a culture in this country that pre-dates the 
United States that says a white law enforcement officer is /always/ 
justified in gunning down a black man and the lack of evidence, with 
each new /Michael Brown,/ that that has changed or ever will change. 
Honestly, I don't know whether Darren Brown is guilty of murder, but I 
know they can't all be innocent and I know they all get off. I was in 
Los Angeles when the verdict came down in the Rodney King case. The 
video tape made no difference. When's the last time a white cop went 
to jail for killing a black person? Hence the rage.


*More...* 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/some-thoughts-on-michael-brown-law-in.html




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[Marxism] Counter-revolutionary Leftwill again be with NATO

2014-08-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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New from Linux Beach:


 Counter-revolutionary Leftwill again be with NATO
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/counter-revolutionary-leftwill-again-be.html


This time it will be by their silence.

Here's the situation:

The rise as ISIS, a group that al Qaeda calls too extreme, and the 
connection of a British voice to the brutal beheading of James Foley, 
has caused the leaders of western imperialism to address the fact that 
many holders of European, British, Canada, Australian and American 
passports have gone to fight in Syria.


This has in turn forced them to address the question of motivation: 
Why have thousands of young people from those countries given up 
relatively comfortable lives in the west to play /Lawrence of 
Arabia/ in the very land that Lawrence made a name for himself? Why 
have they joined the Arab revolt? And here they start to sound like 
idiots. They talk about the attraction of jihad and Internet 
brainwashing and everything else they can think of but in the end they 
can conjure up no good reasons why a sane person would risk his young 
life in a foreign land.


The simple, and for them, unspeakable fact is that what motivates 
these recruits most is that having witnessed the valor and the 
suffering of the Syrian people on the Internet these past few years, a 
growing number have desired to come to the aid of the Syrian people 
and have taken up their cause. I think these foreign fighters in Syria 
have much in common with the internationalists that went to Spain to 
fight for the republic as the clouds where gathering for World War 2. 
Coincidentally, war clouds are gathering in Europe again. They were 
motivated by the cause of the republic, the courage of the 
revolutionaries, and the suffering of the Spanish people fighting 
against such uneven odds. It will ultimately save humanity that young 
people are willing time and again to put aside their fears and 
personal safety in the service of others.


While its true that the Lincoln Brigade and groups like it came under 
relatively progressive leadership, whereas most of the young 
foreigners fighting in Syria have given themselves to very reactionary 
leadership, the motivations are quite similar, they want to intervene 
against Assad's murder of the children. It certainly isn't the fault 
of these young people that there is no /left/ or progressive road to 
Damascus, no /Lincoln Brigade,/ those that occupy the high ramparts 
of the /Left/ have seen to that. But for Muslim youth around the 
world the Islamists have put in place a highway that leads from the 
local mosque to the front-lines. Because they have mobilized for the 
Syrians while the Left has cheered on Assad, these reactionary 
jihadists have gained in strength while the /Left/ has been complete 
discredited in their eyes. [The Left is with Assad.]


Of course, these commentators on CNN, Fox News and the like can't 
afford to talk about these more noble motivations for going to Syria 
and fighting with whoever claims to be fighting Assad, because then 
they would have to talk about what is really happening in Syria and 
try to explain why the murder of two hundred thousand people in three 
years in a relatively small country merited so little coverage. They 
can't do that.


And the /anti-imperialist/ Left can't raise these points either 
because they are guilty of the same crimes as the bourgeoisie when it 
comes to Syria.


Click here for a list of my other blogs on Syria 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/my-syria-diaries_1014.html





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Re: [Marxism] Vijay Prashad's mistranslation

2014-08-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Anyone setting out to correct Vijay Prashad really has it work cut out for
himself.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Anas via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Can someone let Vijay Prashad know that Jabhat Al-Nusra doesn't translate
 from the Arabic to support front as he asserted in Monday on DN, but
 victory front.
 
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[Marxism] If Obama doesn't want to do it, he'll go to Congress

2014-08-28 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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New from Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 If Obama doesn't want to do it, he'll go to Congress
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/if-obama-doesnt-want-to-do-it-hell-go.html

That's what the commentator or politician, I didn't get the name, said 
on CNN this morning. He was talking about President Barack Obama's 
threat to attack ISIS in Syria. His point was that if Obama was 
bluffing and really didn't want to attack, as was the case after 
Bashar al-Assad's use of sarin to kill more than a thousand people in 
East Ghouta, Syria last year, he would go to Congress and let it die. 
If he did want to bomb ISIS in Syria, he would just do it.


When Obama was looking for a reason to renege on his promise to attack 
Assad if he killed with chemical weapons, he took his problem to 
Congress. Most of the anti-imperialist /Left/ promptly started 
organizing anti-war protests to protect Assad from Obama, /as if/ 
Obama ever had any real intentions of attacking the fascist dictator 
that for years he has been publicly appealing to /step down/ 
voluntarily.


When Congress did what everyone knew they would do, oppose Obama's 
/proposed/ military action against Assad, the whole anti-imperialist 
/Left/ burst out in celebration, took credit for the /reversal/, 
and bragged about their growing power. I heard David Swanson do 
exactly that when he spoke in Los Angeles afterwards. Now he calls 
http://warisacrime.org/blog/1568 Obama's new bombing in Iraq without 
going to congress first /justified./ What jerks these people are! At 
the time I likened them to the little boy in car commercial dressed as 
Darth Vader that thinks he started the family car with /the Force,/ 
while his father creates the magic with the cars remote start.


*More...* 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/if-obama-doesnt-want-to-do-it-hell-go.html



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Re: [Marxism] Questions for Vijay Prashad

2014-08-28 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 08/27/2014 01:23 PM, Jon Flanders via Marxism wrote:
You know, they essentially ceded that part of the country. Libya was 
going—Gaddafi’s rule was going to fall. There was no need 
forNATOintervention. 
Tell that to the people of Homs. When French jets swooped in to destroy 
Qaddafi tanks on ~19 March, they were starting to enter Benghanzi, to 
carry out the cleansing operation Qaddafi had been promising for days, 
From your comfortable position I'm sure you valued political purity 
over stopping Qaddafi from doing to Benghazi and Misrata what Assad has 
done to Homs and Aleppo. I disagree and so do my Libyan followers.


So, the second reason I opposed intervention in Libya was it was 
inevitable that Gaddafi was going to lose power. Let the process take 
its own way. 

Like Syria?
Let them fight a little bit. Let there be a political dialogue within 
the rebellion. Let them create alternative structures of power. 
And. as a Marxist, [ and an internationalist? ] what did you do to help 
with that? My record is clear. 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-libyan-diaries_786.html
If you just give the Libyan people a destroyed country, how are they 
going to build a future? And that was the real danger of aerial 
bombardment of the style the Americans conduct.
Syria is a destroyed country [infrastructure wise] because there has 
been no UN intervention, no no-fly zone, and Assad has been allowed to 
use his air force, artillery and chemical weapons to destroy whatever 
the chooses in Syria for more than 3 years now. Libya suffered very 
little infrastructure damage because NATO stopped Qaddafi from doing the 
same to Libya. The chaos [not destruction] is the result of 42 years of 
Qaddafi rule not NATO destruction.


And its a slight against the Brits, French, Italians and Dutch to call 
it an American aerial bombardment. The US conducted only about 17% of 
the strike missions.




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Re: [Marxism] Obama Again Tips the Scales Toward Caution on Syria

2014-08-29 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 08/29/2014 03:02 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:


(So when will WSWS.org and all the rest figure out that regime 
change was never on the agenda?)
In the 60's which side of the barricades to stand on with regards to the 
Vietnam war was a point of debate among the people. It never was among 
Marxists.


I am becoming increasingly convinced that the debate around certain 
questions in the Left are a waste of time for revolutionaries. In fact 
that is the point. They divert revolutionaries from developing Marxism, 
engaging in struggle and winning people that have it in the heart and 
really have something on the line. I've come to feel these debates serve 
a counter-revolutionary purpose and hold back the mass movement.


While we have been debating which side of the barricade to stand on in 
Libya and Syria, with the revolutionary people or with the dictator and 
friends, whether on not Assad is behind all the sarin use, whether or 
not Putin is invading Ukraine, ISIS has been recruiting the dis-affected.


We are fools to engage these people. They have no real heart for 
revolution and no real concern for the people. I think Syria has proven 
that decisively.
I have figured out that these people don't even engage in honest debate. 
They are in it to win it regardless of what it means to the real 
struggle. For example, they have adapted their position on Libya by 
making use of post revolutionary chaos but they have done nothing to 
examine their earlier positions in the light of real world events. They 
have stooped to the most dishonest techniques to defense of Assad's use 
of sarin.


So it is not a question of them figuring out what is going on vis 
Syria, The answer to your question is never.


I am more and more convinced that we can never make progress until we 
break from them decisively and completely expose and disassociate from 
them. Only then can we hope to make progress in building the much needed 
mass movement.


We can never make progress as long as these counter-revolutionaries 
occupy the positions we should be fighting from!


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[Marxism] Another example of the rank dishonesty of these people - highlighting Jason Ditz

2014-08-30 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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http://news.antiwar.com/2014/08/29/ukraine-claims-thousands-of-russian-troops-invaded-offers-no-evidence/

In yesterday's mis-named antiwar.com Jason Ditz claims no Russian invasion
of Ukraine is taking place and no proof has been offered.

The US, which had been rubber stamping Ukrainian allegations for months,
 seems to be particularly hesitant this time, and is saying they can’t
 independently confirm
 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/world/europe/ukraine-conflict.htmlany
 of the allegations being made this time.


In the link above.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/world/europe/ukraine-conflict.html?_r=0
we find:

Russian troops and weaponry were creating momentum for a counteroffensive
 along a significant new front that threatened Mariupol, a key southeastern
 seaport and one of the region’s biggest cities with nearly half a million
 residents.
 Continue reading the main story
 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/world/europe/ukraine-conflict.html?_r=0#story-continues-6

 In the town of Novoazovsk, Ukrainian militiamen manned checkpoints. But
 evidence of a Russian presence was abundant, including unmarked Russian
 military vehicles with no license plates. A soldier on a truck greeted
 journalists by shouting in English: “Back in the U.S.S.R.!”

 A cashier at a Novoazovsk grocery store said Russian soldiers had bought
 sausages and cigarettes. Asked how she knew they were Russian, the cashier,
 who identified herself as Olga, snapped: “You think I’ve only lived one
 day?”



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

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Re: [Marxism] Another example of the rank dishonesty of these people - highlighting Jason Ditz

2014-08-30 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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rackspace may be happy to let you take your company supplied notebook on
vacation with you but what army would allow you to borrow a tank for your
vacation?


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Tristan Sloughter via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 My favorite has been the always wrong WSWS seeming to accept Russia's claim
 that the Russian troops in Ukraine are just on vacation,
 http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/29/ukra-a29.html
 
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Re: [Marxism] One in six French people say they support ISIS

2014-09-01 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I tend not to trust polls because they can so easily be skewed. I didn't
see the range of questions asked, the order or the context. They said that
the ~ 1000 respondents in each country were selected by random dialling,
but they didn't say what the total number of people dialled was. I find it
hard to believe all those dialled participated because I know what I do
when I receive a call from a pollster. That means the respondents were to
some extent self-selecting. Then the question becomes why would some people
be willing to take the time to express an opinion about ISIS and others
not? You might find that the answer to that question already creates a pool
favorable to ISIS.

Then you must consider why the poll was commissioned by Russian money. I
suspect they were looking for the results they got more than they were
looking for the truth.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Joseph Catron via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 I'm particularly happy to see that more in Gaza have an unfavorable
 view than in France, the United Kingdom, or Germany. (That has
 something to do with people here knowing what it is, but still.)

 http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll

 --
 Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure
 mægen lytlað.

 
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Re: [Marxism] Pendulum of the Islamic State.

2014-09-06 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Vijay,

I can't say I like the way you let Assad off the hook with regards to the
growth of ISIS in Syria. You say:


 It will not direct its armies to the north. To do so would leave it
 vulnerable to the rebels’ Southern Front, which continues to be egged on by
 the West to seize Damascus. The U.S. trains Syrian rebels in the deserts of
 eastern Jordan. Full Syrian participation against the IS will not happen if
 the threat to Damascus remains intact.


You make it sound like Assad really would fight IS if only we wasn't under
so much pressure from his US trained (what's that 50 soldier a month?)
opposition. My understanding is that Assad didn't even bother to bomb ISIS
in Raqqa until after Obama started bombing them in Iraq. Surely he could
have spared a few jets from barrel bombing schools and hospitals in the
same region if he wasn't actually using ISIS. There is also the matter of
the jihadists he let out of prison knowing and even telling them to join
ISIS. Syria security officers found in the leadership of ISIS. Oil
purchased by Assad from ISIS. ISIS turning over SAA defectors to Assad.
Assad providing air support for ISIS in battles with the FSA and many more
indications of collusion between the two.

Overall, I'd say you cut Assad a lot of slack. Why am I not surprised?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Prashad, Vijay via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 This morning's The Hindu carried my latest report from the Syria-Iraq
 conflict. It is called the Pendulum of the Islamic State.

 You can read it here:
 http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-pendulum-of-the-islamic-state/article6384028.ece
 .

 This follows my previous monthly dispatches:
 (August 11): The Metastasis of the Islamic State,
 http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/metastasis-of-the-islamic-state/article6301567.ece?ref=relatedNews
 .

 (July 3): The Geopolitics of the Islamic State:
 http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-geopolitics-of-the-islamic-state/article6170651.ece?ref=relatedNews
 .

 and backwards..



 Warmly, Vijay.

 
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Re: [Marxism] From the Guardian: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 might have been shot down from air

2014-09-12 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Is this a rehash of SU-25's punching 5km above its ceiling?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

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On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 9/12/14 9:01 PM, Shane Mage wrote:

 NOT FROM INSIDE THE PLANE. Got it?


 I think you might be confused with the planned denotations at the WTC, no?


 
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Re: [Marxism] From the Guardian: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 might have been shot down from air

2014-09-12 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Shane, aren't you overlooking the possibility that it was a missile from
outer space. Maybe a UFO did it. I don't think anybody with any sense
claimed it was a bomb inside the plane that just happened to detonate over
an active war zone (coincidence).
Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that your opinions come NOT FROM
INSIDE THE BRAIN. Get it?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
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 ==





 On Sep 12, 2014, at 1:54 PM, Louis Proyect wrote:

  On 9/12/14 12:25 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote:

 one of whom was actually acquitted while the other was convicted by NATO
 judges despite the total absence of evidence against him. But what the
 hell--they managed to extort a few billion from Qaddafi and made sure
 the real story would never be heard while the Libyan dictator would get
 all the blame. Like now, when it will take years to come up with a
 report blaming the present Russian dictator, after which the Western
 media will have so thoroughly entrenched the thesis of Russian Guilt
 in public consciousness that any prosecutorial fiction, however grossly
 stitched together, will pass as common knowledge.



 Shane, at this point I've gotten use to having the same relationship to
 the Kremlin that Gus Hall once had but where in the Guardian article is
 support for the idea that the MH17 might have been shot down from air. I
 read the article 3 times, taking my cataracts into account, but found
 nothing to support that notion.

  The Dutch statements were that the most likely scenario was that it
 was shot down from the ground and that it *definitely* was downed by 'high
 velocity projectiles from outside the plane. Which leaves two
 possibilities: that those projectiles came from the ground or from the air.
 NOT FROM INSIDE THE PLANE. Got it?




 Shane Mage

 Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64






 
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[Marxism] Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!

2014-09-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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From Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 


http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

After US president Barack Obama's initial request on 26 June, 2014 for 
funding to arm those fighting the fascist regime of Bashar al-Assad, 
the media was full of stories like this 
http://www.ktvn.com/story/25881313/president-obama-seeks-500-million-to-train-equip-syrian-rebels:


President Barack Obama is asking Congress for $500 million to
train and arm vetted members of the Syrian opposition, as the U.S.
grapples for a way to stem a civil war that has also fueled the
al-Qaida inspired insurgency in neighboring Iraq.

Many on the so-called anti-imperialist /Left/ found this request 
somewhat embarrassing because they had been saying for years that 
Obama has always been the principal force funding and training Assad's 
opposition. So without offering something like a shred of evidence of 
previous funding, they simply claimed it and made reports like these.


*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
At rackspace everyday is bring your kids to work day. They say it is  
harder to get a job at rackspace than it is to get into Harvard. YTD 
more than 32,000 have applied, only 900 have been hired, including your 
truly.



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[Marxism] Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!

2014-09-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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==


From Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 


http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

After US president Barack Obama's initial request on 26 June, 2014 for 
funding to arm those fighting the fascist regime of Bashar al-Assad, 
the media was full of stories like this 
http://www.ktvn.com/story/25881313/president-obama-seeks-500-million-to-train-equip-syrian-rebels:


President Barack Obama is asking Congress for $500 million to
train and arm vetted members of the Syrian opposition, as the U.S.
grapples for a way to stem a civil war that has also fueled the
al-Qaida inspired insurgency in neighboring Iraq.

Many on the so-called anti-imperialist /Left/ found this request 
somewhat embarrassing because they had been saying for years that 
Obama has always been the principal force funding and training Assad's 
opposition. So without offering something like a shred of evidence of 
previous funding, they simply claimed it and made reports like these.


*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
At rackspace everyday is bring your kids to work day. They say it is  
harder to get a job at rackspace than it is to get into Harvard. YTD 
more than 32,000 have applied, only 900 have been hired, including your 
truly.



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[Marxism] Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!

2014-09-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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From Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 Obama still seeking $500 million to arm Syrian rebels!
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 


http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html 

After US president Barack Obama's initial request on 26 June, 2014 for 
funding to arm those fighting the fascist regime of Bashar al-Assad, 
the media was full of stories like this 
http://www.ktvn.com/story/25881313/president-obama-seeks-500-million-to-train-equip-syrian-rebels:


President Barack Obama is asking Congress for $500 million to
train and arm vetted members of the Syrian opposition, as the U.S.
grapples for a way to stem a civil war that has also fueled the
al-Qaida inspired insurgency in neighboring Iraq.

Many on the so-called anti-imperialist /Left/ found this request 
somewhat embarrassing because they had been saying for years that 
Obama has always been the principal force funding and training Assad's 
opposition. So without offering something like a shred of evidence of 
previous funding, they simply claimed it and made reports like these.


*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/obama-still-seeking-500-million-to-arm.html
At rackspace everyday is bring your kids to work day. They say it is  
harder to get a job at rackspace than it is to get into Harvard. YTD 
more than 32,000 have applied, only 900 have been hired, including your 
truly.



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[Marxism] How a 24hr truce to pick up bodies became a non-aggression pact between ISIS Syrian rebels

2014-09-16 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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From Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 How a 24hr truce to pick up bodies became a non-aggression pact
 between ISIS  Syrian rebels
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/how-24hr-truce-to-pick-up-bodies-became.html

Today *Democracy for America* sent this out in an email 
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/16/Liberal-Group-Urges-No-Vote-on-Obama-s-Syria-Request:


Recent reports have claimed some of the so-called /moderate/
Syrian rebels that would receive money and weapons under this plan
have agreed to a /non-aggression pact/ with ISIS. It's possible
that, despite the president's best intentions, weapons sent to
Syrian rebels could find their way into the hands of ISIS -- and
be used to target Americans.

By most reliable accounts, one group, Sons of Golan, associated with 
the Free Syrian Army, that had been waging a heroic and hard fought 
campaign to rid an area near Damascus of ISIS agreed to a 24 hour 
truce so that both sides could remove their dead from the battlefield 
and bury them, after which the battle between the two forces resumed. 
This led to widespread reports in the western anti-war movement that 
the Free Syrian Army generally had concluded, in words design to 
invoke memories of the opportunistic agreement made between Hitler and 
Stalin, a /non-aggression pact/ with the extreme jihadist group ISIS 
in Syria.


*More...* 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/how-24hr-truce-to-pick-up-bodies-became.html


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[Marxism] UPDATED: How a 24hr truce to pick up bodies became a non-aggression pact between ISIS Syrian rebels

2014-09-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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After I got off work @ rackspace this evening, I updated


 How a 24hr truce to pick up bodies became a non-aggression pact
 between ISIS  Syrian rebels
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/how-24hr-truce-to-pick-up-bodies-became.html

with the following:

*UPDATE 19 September 2014:* When Secretary of State John Kerry testified 
before the Senate on Wednesday he added a new dimension to this 
particular controversy because he made the claim 
http://www.c-span.org/video/?321504-1/hearing-us-strategy-isis that it 
was a propaganda ploy of the Islamic State. He said this about the story 
of a non-aggression pact between ISIS (or ISIL as he calls it) and the 
Free Syrian Army: /Let me say to you, that's---disinformation 
fundamentally put out by ISIL./ Not reading Arabic I have seen this 
disinformation spread most widely by whose in the /anti-imperialist/ 
Left. I don't know the basis of Kerry's statement and have to say I 
don't have much faith in his intelligence no matter how you mean it, but 
upon reflection, I have to agree with him.


Here is my reasoning: Its not hard to understand why a section of the 
FSA would agree to a 24hr truce to remove the dead from the battlefield. 
Such breaks in the fighting to evacuate the dead and wounded are quite 
common in the annals of warfare, even between the most bitter of 
opponents, if only in the name of simple decency. They happened in the 
American Civil War and after the truce the two sides returned to killing 
each other. But ISIS is not known for its decency. If this is indeed the 
first such truce that they have agreed to, which is what most of these 
/anti-imperialist/ reports claim, then the real question it why did 
ISIS agree to it at this juncture?


The logical answer is that they agreed to it precisely so that their 
propaganda allies could use it as the grain-of-truth in a 
dis-information campaign that claimed, as the women in the pink blouse 
did on CNN this morning, that /hundreds of FSA units have entered into 
a non-aggression pact with ISIS/ at the very moment when the United 
States is considering whether to support the FSA with training and arms 
in a serious way for the first time. So I think Kerry has a point.


ISIS is very sophisticated in it propaganda, as is the Assad Regime. The 
highlight of the ISIS video released today is a North American sounding 
jihadist executing members of Assad's army. Now that they have gotten 
the attention of the American people, they are making a great show of 
opposing Assad, just as Assad appears, for the first time, to be 
opposing ISIS. Of course, in the past, Assad has been much quicker 
https://www.facebook.com/Sham.Althawrah/posts/160075994091488 to shoot 
his own soldiers 
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/03/world/meast/syria-unrest/, as punishment 
for attempting to defect 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/09/syrian-soldiers-executed-damascus-barracks, 
than he has to bomb ISIS headquarters in Ragga or ISIS camps anywhere. 
Had he done so, they never could have had the safehaven that has allowed 
them to conquer so much territory in Syria and Iraq, just as ISIS has 
waged war against the FSA and not Assad, who purchases their oil 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/01/bashar-al-jihad-how-assad-finances.html. 
As I have reported earlier 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/02/man-behind-curtain-for-al-qaeda-in.html, 
ISIS prisons have been found 
http://www.petercliffordonline.com/syria-news-3 to be filled with FSA 
soldiers while defecting Syrian soldiers so foolish as to flee to ISIS 
have been turned over 
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/01/21/Al-Qaeda-detainees-reveal-ties-with-Assad.html 
to Assad, most likely to be shot. Now it is convenient to boaster claims 
that ISIS is the main force fighting Assad and visa versa with these 
displays. Those who have been following this conflict for the past three 
and a half years are not fooled but those that have just waken up to it 
may be.


So ISIS allowed a truce in one area, near Damascus, with one FSA unit, 
and with the help of its friend and allies, have scored another 
propaganda victory. These /anti-imperialists/ only oppose western 
imperialism and follow the logic of /the enemy of my enemy is my 
friend./ This has long made them supporters of Putin and Assad. Now 
they seem quite willing to add ISIS to that club and spread ISIS 
misinformation for the purpose of discrediting the forces that have 
remained in the struggle, in spite of three and a half years of pounding 
by Assad and over a year of fighting ISIS, as either non-existent or 
having concluded a /non-aggression pact/ with ISIS.


I regret to inform you that to his roll call of dishonour we can also 
add Syrian Arab Republic 

[Marxism] Vijay Prashad's Syrian contradictions

2014-09-21 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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==


This evening from Linux Beach in San Antonio:


 Vijay Prashad's Syrian contradictions
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/vijay-prashads-syrian-contradictions.html


Vijay Prashad's latest defense of Bashar al-Assad, *Obama’s Syrian 
dilemma* 
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/obamas-syrian-dilemma/article6416557.ece?homepage=true, 
is a bundle of contradictions . The only thing that holds it together 
is his covert support for Assad.


Vijay say near the very beginning of his piece:

In Syria, IS faces three adversaries: Kurdish fighters, the Syrian
government and an assortment of the Syrian opposition.

This is a laugh, after all that has been written on this score, Vijay 
still counts Assad as a force fighting ISIS in Syria. Sure there have 
been a few outbreaks but on balance, Assad has been much more friend 
than foe to ISIS.


The sad news this week is that ISIS has succeeded in taking 60 
villages away from the badly out-gunned Syrian Kurdish forces and 
sending another 60,000 of Assad's citizens fleeing across the border 
to Turkey. The Kurds don't have an air force, but Assad does, well 
supplied by Putin. So why was Assad's air force MIA, while ISIS took 
another slice out of Syria? Were they too busy bombing Syrians 
demanding democracy in Aleppo and Idlib? Vijay takes the position that 
Obama should team up with Assad to battle ISIS in Syria, rather than 
those who are really fighting ISIS. In fact, near the end of his piece 
Vijay seems to contradicted himself when he excuses Assad's failure to 
take the fight to ISIS with:


Mr. Assad will not throw his troops at the IS unless he has an
assurance that the rebellion against him is over.

So if Assad has yet to throw his troops at the IS [i.e. ISIS], while 
the Free Syrian Army certainly has, in what sense is he an adversary 
of IS, to be named ahead of those that have actually been fighting it? 
This statement is also an admission that both Vijay and Assad know 
that IS is not a part of the rebellion against him!


Vijay goes on to confuse rhetoric with reality when he speaks of:

Mr. Obama’s commitment to the overthrow of Syrian President Bashar
al-Assad

Based on what does he make this claim? Is it like Obama's 
/commitment/ to a living wage, affordable healthcare, and clean 
energy? If Obama has been so /committed to the overthrow of Assad,/ 
why is this morning's CNN headline /US plans to arm Syrian rebels/, 
sometime in the future, 3.5 years into the conflict? V



*More...* 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/vijay-prashads-syrian-contradictions.html


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Re: [Marxism] What if FDR had declared war against both Hitler Stalin

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==


I'm am trying to drive home a few political points in a few paragraphs and
that runs counter to trying to lay out more nuanced views on the USSR or
JAN for the sake of political correctness in the eyes of a handful of
people who will be looking for any reason to attack me anyway. Thay aren't
my audience.

That being said, I stand behind what I did say about Stalin and JAN and
disagree with those that think I should have included more of what I didn't
say.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
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 ==


 I think Clay's first paragraph makes a valid point about the choices
 available in a three-way war, and whether and why to try to make it
 two-way. I wouldn't use the same formulations as he does to characterize
 the Soviet regime, but that's irrelevant to the point of the parallel he
 draws re the various combatants.
 I will say though that on the web in the last couple days the justified
 exposure and outrage over Obama's cuddling up to Assad has sometimes let
 JAN politically off the hook. Yes, they have fought both Assad and ISIS.
 And yes, that Obama is attacking them and not Assad is rightly seen (as the
 Syrian quotes in the article make clear) as proof of US imperialism's
 disregard for the Syrian people. But, as Syrian and other Arab
 revolutionaries have been pointing out, JAN are reactionary scum.
 Depicting the reality of the contending forces accurately does not require
 glossing over the politics of any of those forces.

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:28 AM, David P Á marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
 wrote:

  ==
  Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
  ==
 
 
  Great, now we don't only get calls for imperialist intervention but
  anti-soviet cold war propaganda too.
 
  --David.
 
  
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Re: [Marxism] What if FDR had declared war against both Hitler Stalin

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Since everybody knew the US was going to bomb in Syria, what was the point
in specifically informing the Assad regime? Was it to get their permission
- so the US planes won't be painted, necessitating taking out some of his
forces - so that Assad could feel secure in reserving his air force for
bombing Syrian civilians that very same day? And was bombing the anti-Assad
JAN part of the deal made with Assad?

As for Assad's storied air defense, why hasn't he ever brought down any
Israeli planes over Syria? They have been there often enough!

And certainly al Nusra, like everyone else, knew Obama was going to bomb in
Syria, but they didn't know they were going to be a target. Hell, they
didn't know they had a new name until Obama announced it. That was the
surprise I was talking about. Are you really that dense?

And what do you mean by despie protestations that the US would not hit
ISIS in Syria? By who? Where do you get your news?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:49 AM, DW via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==


 On the US informing the Syrian gov't.

 Clay writes, cynically to say the least: The Obama administration was also
 so kind as to give the Assad regime a /heads-up/ as to the coming attack.
 ISIS also had plenty of time to fortify and reposition itself in
 preparation for the US air campaign. In fact the only forces caught by
 surprise were those that have been fighting both the Assad regime and
 ISIS.

 Nonsense. Everyone knew it was coming (despite protestations that the US
 would not hit ISIS in Syria) including the forces on the ground in Syria.
 Duh...the US announced it over and over again. They wanted to attack ISIS
 and other forces deemed attackable by the US without having their planes
 painted by anti-air radar systems, of which the Syrian gov't has some of
 the most sophisticated in the world along with the missiles to go with it.
 If not, the US would have had to use it's anti-radiation air craft to take
 these out first and that would entail attacking Syrian forces and thus, in
 effect, bringing the Russians into the entire scenario.

 As the US has no interest, at this time, to attack the government, it makes
 perfect sense to warn the gov't there of the impending raid's exact timing.

 DW
 
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Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==


Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of accuracy?
Your statement should read:

I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
 help confuse the matter.


Then you would be correct.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==


 I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
 this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can only
 help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
 hell

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
 
 
  http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
  a-damascus-neighborhood/
 
 
  Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
  Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
  people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should look
  elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
 
  More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
 
  Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
  al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an international
  lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
 
  “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria and
  talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging and
  repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
 Press
  TV on Friday.
 
  full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
  show-growing-support-for-assad/
 
 
 
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Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
==
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==


Ron,

May I take it then that you don't oppose Assad, even though he's been
bombing breadlines for years?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ron Jacobs ronj1...@gmail.com wrote:

 the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed to
 Assad have chimed inanyone else?

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of
 accuracy?
 Your statement should read:

 I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
 help confuse the matter.


 Then you would be correct.

 Clay Claiborne, Director
 Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
 Linux Beach Productions
 Venice, CA 90291
 (310) 581-1536

 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
 http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==


 I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
 this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can
 only
 help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
 hell

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
 
 
  http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
  a-damascus-neighborhood/
 
 
  Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
  Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
  people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should
 look
  elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
 
  More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
 
  Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
  al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an
 international
  lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
 
  “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria
 and
  talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging
 and
  repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
 Press
  TV on Friday.
 
  full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
  show-growing-support-for-assad/
 
 
 
 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
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Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
==
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==


Then you have succeeded. Sorry I can't continue but I have to go to work
now, so

TTFN

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==


 I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, Louis.  Provoke, perhaps,
 but not convince.

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 9/24/14 1:39 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
 
  the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed
 to
  Assad have chimed inanyone else?
 
 
  In fact, anything I have ever written about Syria draws support from
  either the bourgeois press or academic scholars--exactly the same kind of
  sources found in Noam Chomsky. When would Chomsky ever quote a hack like
  Franklin Lamb to convince anybody? Surely you can do better than that,
 Ron.
 
 
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Re: [Marxism] Lying to Ourselves About the Air War

2014-09-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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==


Good piece. Assad has been barrel bombing his own people - and targeting
civilians by attacking breadlines and hospitals, but I won't hold by breath
waiting for Counterpunch to publish an article pointing to the terror of
Baathist bombing. Such is the nature of their internationalism.:

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:03 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==



 http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2014/09/lying-to-ourselves-about-air-war.html
 
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Re: [Marxism] The Resilience of Moderate Syrian Rebels

2014-09-26 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Thank you Michael for clearing that up. We should also note that while the
nationalist forces have received a handful of TOWs the ban on MANPADS
remains in force even as Assad has stepped up his air campaign against
civilians. And even as US and allies enter Syrian skies, nothing like a
no-fly zone is in the works. Assad was comfortable barrel bombing Syrians
on the ground THAT VERY SAME DAY, without US interference.

And once again David shows how these anti-imperialists will grasp at a
tiny grain of truth to promote a despicable lie.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 The article says Moderate groups, starved of proper equipment for over
 three years, began to receive small
 numbers of advanced weapons in spring and summer 2014.

 Yes, we know. It is widely known that the very first US weapons in the
 entire war, these handful of TOWs, began arriving for some select FSA
 groups in April 2014. What most of us have written about, that the FSA was
 starved of proper equipment for over three years, is shown here to be
 correct.

 The US began to send some TOWs to select groups in the context of the
 FSA's magnificent attack on ISIS from January 2014. The US had always
 insisted the FSA had to first attack ISIS *and Nusra* before the US would
 consider sending any arms. The FSA had always refused to be the Sawha. But
 since ISIS fascism became unbearable, the FSA and its allies decided, based
 on their own needs and not those of the US, to launch a frontal attack on
 ISIS (but not on Nusra, which in fact joined the FSA/IF attack on ISIS).

 The US decided it was time to test them out. The TOWs were never very many
 (here's a good article on the reality of these shipments:
 http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-
 harakat-hazm-20140907-story.html#page=1); in some cases the US tried to
 get them to attack Nusra as well as ISIS, but they refused; in other cases
 they explicitly gave them weapons to fight ISIS *but not the regime* (I
 have documented all this here: http://mkaradjis.wordpress.
 com/2014/06/25/iraq-and-syria-the-struggle-against-the-
 multi-sided-counterrevolution/).

 The outcome? Nearly all these groups that go a few TOWs have condemned the
 current US bombing of Syria as an attack on the revolution, and stand in
 solidarity (even if holding their noses) with Nusra. Above all, the
 7000-strong FSA militia Harakat Hazm - the first to famously receive TOWS,
 discussed in that LA Times piece I just linked to, came out with the best
 and strongest anti-imperialist statement condemning the US bombings (see my
 new article detailing the reactions of the bulk of FSA and allied rebel
 units to these strikes: http://mkaradjis.wordpress.
 com/2014/09/25/syrian-rebels-overwhelmingly-condemn-us-
 bombing-as-an-attack-on-revolution/).

 Revolutionaries that face the actual heat of the double battle against a
 fascist regime that dwarfs most of the Latin American tyrants of the
 1970s-1980s and a clerical-fascist ISIS, who have to make real decisions in
 these circumstances, receive a handful of half-useful arms after being
 starved of them for years against such massively armed opponents, and
 then when the US attacks their country to help them they take a
 principled revolutionary stance. Meanwhile other revolutionaries who have
 never had to make these kinds of decisions in their lives and never will
 content themselves with sitting back and condemning the revolutionaries in
 Syria for dirtying their hands by finally receiving a little something
 (never mind that what they need for defense against the regime's mostly air
 war is Manpads, which the US Congress explicitly forbade sending, whereas
 TOWs could only be useful against ISIS).

 We've come a long way when that is the distinction between revolutionaries
 and revolutionaries. Or perhaps David didn't really mean it in the way
 his contribution came across. I'll got for the second option.

 MK

 -Original Message- From: DW via Marxism
 Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 1:03 AM
 To: Michael Karadjis
 Subject: [Marxism] The Resilience of Moderate Syrian Rebels


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Re: [Marxism] What if FDR had declared war against both Hitler Stalin

2014-09-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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While my article was meant to be an exposure of Obama's covert support for
Assad, this thread was about anything but. Instead it turned into a
discussion of whether US Marines could be among the best people or was I
comparing the Soviet Union to the Nazis and all sorts of garbage, but
really, their defense of the Soviet Union was a defense of Stalin and their
defense of Stalin was as a practical matter, in a discussion that should
have been about the merits of my article in its main thesis, a defense of
Obama without ever addressing it as such.

So I find it interesting, and by no means a coincidence, that those on one
side of this argument have long argued that Obama was an enemy of Assad,
even though their arguments. as long and verbose as they were, spoke to
anything but.

Still, I believe they won this round, even if I believe they feel short in
the individual arguments because their purpose was to create a diversion,
to obfuscate and waste the time of revolutionaries who's time should have
been much more productively used in educating honest people rather than
trying to win arguments with those absolutely committed to their
underhanded defense of imperialism.



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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Re: [Marxism] What if FDR had declared war against both Hitler Stalin

2014-09-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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sic - should have been fell short - its almost 4am after a long work day.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 3:51 AM, Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com wrote:

 While my article was meant to be an exposure of Obama's covert support for
 Assad, this thread was about anything but. Instead it turned into a
 discussion of whether US Marines could be among the best people or was I
 comparing the Soviet Union to the Nazis and all sorts of garbage, but
 really, their defense of the Soviet Union was a defense of Stalin and their
 defense of Stalin was as a practical matter, in a discussion that should
 have been about the merits of my article in its main thesis, a defense of
 Obama without ever addressing it as such.

 So I find it interesting, and by no means a coincidence, that those on one
 side of this argument have long argued that Obama was an enemy of Assad,
 even though their arguments. as long and verbose as they were, spoke to
 anything but.

 Still, I believe they won this round, even if I believe they feel short in
 the individual arguments because their purpose was to create a diversion,
 to obfuscate and waste the time of revolutionaries who's time should have
 been much more productively used in educating honest people rather than
 trying to win arguments with those absolutely committed to their
 underhanded defense of imperialism.



 Clay Claiborne, Director
 Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
 Linux Beach Productions
 Venice, CA 90291
 (310) 581-1536

 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
 http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track




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Re: [Marxism] Nusra Front dissolving into Islamic State?

2014-09-27 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Once again you've got it all wrong Marv,

ISIS is not part of the opposition to the Assad Regime. al Nusra, along
with the rest of the Syrian opposition have been fighting both ISIS and
Assad, which have only made a show of fighting each other.

That the US-led air campaign in intended to halt ISIS is only their
propaganda and your opinion.

al  Nursa is not splintering and the question that you hopeful pose in the
subject line is not supported by the article you link to. Why am I not
surprised? It does however reflect the hopes of ISIS:

However, one Islamic State fighter said he believed there was an 80
 percent chance that the brothers of Nusra will join the State.


But what Reuters says is:

 Sources close to Islamic State said some Nusra fighters were joining them
 after the strikes and there was a growing sense among many that it was time
 to put their differences aside.

So again, the source is ISIS, so really the only question your post raises
is why are you embellishing ISIS propaganda on a Marxist list?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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[Marxism] The role of US Imperialism in Syria and the Left's Dilemma

2014-09-28 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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/From Linux Beach near SAT:/


 The role of US Imperialism in Syria and the Left's Dilemma
 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-role-of-us-imperialism-in-syria-and.html

US President Barack Obama's air war in Syria has been a long time in 
the making. I wrote about it more than 18 months ago in a blog post 
titled *Obama planning drone strikes against Assad's opposition in 
Syria*, 16 March 2013. I reported then 
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/03/obama-planning-drone-strikes-against.html:


From the LA Times today

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-syria-20130316,0,3989647.story
we have breaking news that the Obama Administration is presently
in the planning stages for direct US armed intervention into the
Syrian civil war. The plan will be to intervene on the side of
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad with a series of armed drone
strikes against his opposition.
...
While drone strikes against Islamist militants fighting Assad may
be taken in the name of saving US lives in some hypothetical
future, they won't save any Syrian lives now or hinder Assad's
massive /Death from Above/ campaign against Syrian civilians.
Actually, since al-Nustra has been most effective in relieving
Assad of bases for his air operations and is attempting to
implement a /no-fly zone/ over Syria, any Obama attack against
al-Nusra would certainly be most welcomed by the embattled Assad
regime.

Now those strikes have come, the danger to US lives has been declared 
/imminent,/ and not just drones are being used, but the whole range 
of the US air arsenal is being employed. I was banned from blogging 
http://notthesingularity.com/455/clay-claiborne-banned-from-daily-kos-for-speaking-truth-about-syria/ 
at the Daily Kos http://www.dailykos.com/blog/clay%20claiborne for 
talk like that, but as I predicted, these strikes are against Assad's 
opposition, have not interfered with his own air campaign of bombing 
hospitals, schools and breadlines, and have been most heartily 
welcomed by the regime.


The same day Obama killed 50 al Nusra militants 
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Sep-23/271641-eight-civilians-30-fighters-killed-in-us-led-strikes-on-nusra-front-in-syria-activists.ashx#ixzz3E8z2uYK4e 
and 27 civilians 
https://www.facebook.com/RadioFreeSyria/posts/706573779427832, 
including at least 6 children and 4 women, Assad continued his own 
devastating air campaign against those seeking to end his 42 year old 
dictatorship, and this US intervention was most welcomed by the Assad 
regime. The *New York Times* reported 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/world/middleeast/clashing-goals-in-syria-strikes-put-us-in-fix.html?_r=0:


A Syrian diplomat crowed to a pro-government newspaper that /“the
U.S. military leadership is now fighting in the same trenches with
the Syrian generals, in a war on terrorism inside Syria.”/ And in
New York, the new Iraqi prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, said in
an interview that he had delivered a private message to Mr. Assad
on behalf of Washington, reassuring him that the Syrian government
was not the target of American-led air strikes.
...
/“Of course coordination exists,”/ said a pro-government Syrian
journalist speaking on the condition of anonymity for fear of
retribution, who had criticized the prospect of the strikes but
turned practically jubilant once they began. /“How else do you
explain the strikes on Nusra?”/

Ali Haidar, Assad's minister for national reconciliation, told 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/us-syria-crisis-minister-idUSKCN0HJ19S20140924 
*Reuters* on Wednesday:


/As for the raids in Syria, I say that what has happened so far
is proceeding in the right direction in terms of informing the
Syrian government and by not targeting Syrian military
installations and not targeting civilians,/ he said.

/Notification of the Syrian government happened,/ he said.
/Confirmation that they would not target Syrian military
installations, and confirmation they would not target civilians
happened./

Targeting civilians is what the Assad regime does best, and having 
been assured by Obama that US warplanes were not entering Syrian air 
space to interference with that, Assad has felt free to continue his 
own campaign of /Death from Above./ *Reuters* reported on Friday 
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/26/uk-mideast-crisis-oil-raids-idUKKCN0HL0D220140926


Assad steps up bombing as West strikes militants in Syria


U.S.-led forces hit Islamic State bases in eastern Syria on Friday
and a monitoring group said the Syrian army had intensified its
   

Re: [Marxism] U.S. Focus on ISIS Frees Syria to Battle Rebels

2014-10-10 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-role-of-us-imperialism-in-syria-and.html

*Tuesday 23 September 2014* On the day the US strikes started, this is what
Assad's air force did:
[1]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586934101414932 Aleppo
Province: Helicopters dropped 2 barrel bombs onto areas near al Imam al
Nawawi mosque in the neighborhood of Tariq al Bab leading to the injury of
some people. Two other barrels were dropped onto the neighborhoods of
Masaken Hanano and Jabal Badro in the east of Aleppo.

[2]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586919738083035 Idleb
Province: Some surface-to-surface missiles struck areas in the city of Khan
Sheikhon followed by the dropping of barrel bombs onto the city killing a
man, his daughter and a woman while others were injured. Helicopters
dropped barrel bombs onto areas in the town of Saraqeb with no information
about casualties.

[3]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586904001417942 Helicopters
dropped 5 barrel bombs onto areas in the west of Khan al Shih Camp and 5
barrels onto places in Bet Sayer in the Western Ghouta,  casualties were
reported in Bet Sayer.

[4]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586834484758227 Idleb
Province: Warplanes carried out a raid on the town of Ma’er Zayta in the
southern countryside of Idleb.

[5]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586809574760718 Warplanes
carried out a raid on al Dokhaneyyi area and 9 raids on the Wastelands of
al Qalamun.

[6]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586792534762422 Idleb
Province: Warplanes carried out 3 raids on areas in the town of Khan al
Sobol, 2 raids on the town of Madaya in the southern countryside, a raid on
the outskirts of al Hbet town, a raid on the southern outskirts of Ma’arret
al Nu’man, a raid on the town of al Rkaya and a raid on the town of Deir
Sonbol leading to the killing of 2 children from the same family in Khan al
Sobol. They also attacked areas in the town of al Taman’a.

[7]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/586791581429184 Daraa
Province: Warplanes carried out a raid on an area in the town of Kafar
Nasej.

*Wednesday 24 September 2014*
[8]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587465788028430 Helicopters
dropped barrel bombs onto areas in Handarat Camp. Two barrel bombs dropped
near the Central Prison of Aleppo. A woman died while other were injured
due to air raids launched on the town of Qbasin near the city of al Bab.

Most telling about the unity that has developed between the US air force
and Assad's is that in one case the SOHR had to report:
https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587443524697323 *It is unknown
till the moment whether the aircrafts that attacked the area are affiliated
to the Syrian regime or to the International-Arab Coalition. *

[9]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587432728031736 Deir Ezzor
Province: Warplanes attacked areas in the village of al Shola with no
information about casualties. They also carried out a raid in the vicinity
of Deir Ezzor airbase.

[10]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/58741682130
Helicopters dropped 7 barrel bombs onto the city of al Rastan with no
information about casualties.

[11]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587270454714630
Helicopters dropped 2 barrel bombs onto areas in the town of Allatamneh.

[12]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587104414731234
Helicopters dropped 4 explosive barrels on al-Zabdani, no reports of losses.

*Thursday 25 September 2014*
[13]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587617804679895 8
civilians ( 3 children and a woman ), killed by aerial bombardment on Duma,
a man killed by regime's bombardment on Duma, a woman killed by air strikes
on Arbin, and a man from al-Abada town.

Apparently, in the first days of US air strikes, Assad didn't entirely
trust the US promise that he could carry on with his usual routine. The
SOHR reported: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/587795524662123*
The provinces of Deir Ezzor, al Raqqa, al Hasaka, Homs, Aleppo and Idleb
have witnessed a significant reduction in the regime’s aerial bombardment,
where the rate of strikes has declined since the beginning of the
International- Arab Coalition aerial strikes 2 days ago. There have been
only few sorties during the last two days while aerial bombardment stopped
completely in some provinces.* That changed as his confidence built that
the US was not going to interfere with his carnage.

*Friday 26 September 2014*
[14]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/588349971273345 Homs
Province: Helicopters dropped 4 barrel bombs onto the city of al Rastan
causing the death of 7 people while others were injured.

[15]: https://www.facebook.com/syriahroe/posts/588187541289588 A man was
killed by 

[Marxism] #AirDrop2Kobane

2014-10-13 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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The Kurds in Kobane are running low on food and ammo. This is their biggest
problem and they have been demanding air drops to re-supply them. Yesterday
there was a massive twitter storm campaign that pushed the hashtag
#AirDrop2Kobane to 3rd place in Trending Worldwide for much of the day. Its
the way I spent part of my Sunday.

The media isn't reporting any air drops but they aren't reporting the
demand or the twitter campaign either, just US bombs being dropped on who
knows who.

FYI



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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Re: [Marxism] [Critical-Syria] #AirDrop2Kobane

2014-10-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I posted a few I'm fond of:
https://twitter.com/Gorran_Change/status/521400957213880322
https://twitter.com/re2baz/status/52140658648576
https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/521385173284171776
https://twitter.com/baghdadinvest/status/521407355817558017
https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/521393084907548672
https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/521392195753218048
https://twitter.com/ProfJCharmley/status/521408998550290432
https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/521401864454017024


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Danny Postel dannypos...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks, Clay. If there are any good articles/appeals/petitions pertaining
 to this crisis, please do post them here. I just looked up #AirDrop2Kobane
 on Twitter and didn't see any particuarly good tweets -- but I suppose that
 comes with the territory if it's the 3rd most popular hashtag in the world
 at the moment...

 On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 The Kurds in Kobane are running low on food and ammo. This is their
 biggest problem and they have been demanding air drops to re-supply them.
 Yesterday there was a massive twitter storm campaign that pushed the
 hashtag #AirDrop2Kobane to 3rd place in Trending Worldwide for much of the
 day. Its the way I spent part of my Sunday.

 The media isn't reporting any air drops but they aren't reporting the
 demand or the twitter campaign either, just US bombs being dropped on who
 knows who.

 FYI



 Clay Claiborne, Director
 Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
 Linux Beach Productions
 Venice, CA 90291
 (310) 581-1536

 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
 http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 5 Things About Slavery You Probably Didn't Learn In Social Studies: A Short Guide To 'The Half Has Never Been Told'

2014-10-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Since I'm now in San Antonio, I will add one more piece to this story. I
resentful got around to visiting the Alamo, but I didn't see one indication
that the real freedom Davy Crockett etc al were fighting for was the
freedom to own slaves. Mexico had recently outlawed slavery.
On Oct 24, 2014 7:49 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/the-half-has-never-
 been-told_n_6036840.html
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 5 Things About Slavery You Probably Didn't Learn In Social Studies: A Short Guide To 'The Half Has Never Been Told'

2014-10-29 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Just got home from work and too tired to care.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Mark Lause markala...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, I'm sure you're so much busier than I am, but if you don't have time
 to discuss it--and insist on attributing whatever positions to me--I just
 won't bother trying either.

 ML



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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 5 Things About Slavery You Probably Didn't Learn In Social Studies: A Short Guide To 'The Half Has Never Been Told'

2014-10-31 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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*

On slavery in Mexico, Wikipedia says this:

 Slaves were nearly non-existent in the late colonial census of 1792.[9]
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexican#cite_note-proctor-9 While
 banned shortly after the beginning of the Mexican War of Independence, the
 practice did not definitively end until 1829.[8]
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexican#cite_note-lovell-8

To restate what I quoted earlier:

 The Republic of Texas was a natural outgrowth of the Austin colony which
 brought slavery onto Mexican soil in 1821. In 1825, twenty five per cent of
 the people in Austin’s colony were slaves and by 1836 there were 5,000
 slaves.

Your claim that the defenders of the Alamo:

 they were actually fighting for the arrangements that
 had eliminated slavery.

Is just so much white supremacist propaganda - and on a Marxist list -
which is why I feel compelled to take time out of my busy schedule [working
9 hrs/day in an industrial plant with 4k other workers] to combat it.

The constitution they fought for, the constitution of the Texas Republic
legalized slavery in a way neither the US or Mexican constitutions never
did. Again read what I quoted from it above. Your most recent claim that
the re-introduction of slavery onto Mexican soil was just the outcome but
not the cause is again some more white supremacists BS, as is your claim
that the Hispanic population was the driving force behind the Texas revolt.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Tejanos refers to the Hispanic population.
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Re: [Marxism] Defending white supremacy

2014-11-01 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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There are no white supremacists on the civil war either, and no defenders
of slavery. They all argue that it was about states rights, freedom and
being invaded. Generally speaking they argue along the lines that Mark
defended the defenders of the Alamo. But don't you dare call them white
supremacists. There are no white supremacists any more, maybe a few
self-declared racists, but no one else - these are all legitimate debates
about something else.

Been there, heard that a thousand times.

Clay Claiborne, Director
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Linux Beach Productions
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On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Jeff via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 I found the posts on this history topic, which I had no previous exposure
 to, rather interesting. But I wish it could be discussed without raising
 the tone of the debate in terms such as:

 On Fri, October 31, 2014 17:38, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote:
 
  To make it even more clear. I said that those fighting at the Alamo were
  fighting for white supremacy. You said they weren't. If I am right, you
  are defending white supremacy.

 Well of course the latter conclusion doesn't follow, as I'm sure Clay
 would agree after thinking about it. While differing analyses of history
 certainly can reflect the ideologies of the respective analysts, one can
 never just assert such a relationship. And even if Clay could prove that
 Mark's views are exactly those of white sepremacists, that doesn't even
 prove those historical assessments wrong (very often those further on the
 right have a clearer view than liberals). Even if Mark is wrong and has
 the exact views of white supremacists (or whatever) I am quite sure that
 he does NOT defend white supremacy as attested to by all of his other
 views on various historical and political issues.

 We could have a more productive discussion if people don't make such
 charges, and especially if differing takes on historical questions are not
 automatically taken to reflect different world views or political
 positions on current issues. I know we all are tempted to do that during a
 heated argument. But to make such a valid charge, you would need to show
 how that person's conclusion flowed from the evil ideology or from flawed
 historical records, for instance. Let's try to keep the discussion more
 civil.

 - Jeff








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Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah: US Not in Favour of Destabilizing Syrian Gov’t

2014-11-12 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Many people both among the imperialists and the anti-imperialist Left
prefer Libya as it was and Syria as it is, a people under a fascist
dictatorship that is routinely willing commit mass murder to stay in power
when the wretched police state system of prisons and torture chambers
proves not up to the task, to the chaos of a free people reinventing
themselves and re-creating the state.

This is well known. What's your point?

Clay Claiborne, Director
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Linux Beach Productions
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Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah: US Not in Favour of Destabilizing Syrian Gov’t

2014-11-12 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I documented all this in great detail, and released over 20 new Wikileaks
documents while doing so, over two years ago:

*Barack Obama's Courtship of Bashar al-Assad*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2012/09/barack-obama-courtship-of-bashar-al_4519.html

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
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[Marxism] FYI: The Other Side of Diversity

2014-11-12 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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 Forwarded Message   Subject: Re: Interesting
Article...Thoughts?  Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:01:03 +  From: Walter
walte@rackspace  Reply-To: Walter  walter@rackspace  To:
Deedee.@rackspace., raap@lrackspace raap@rackspace

 This is a very powerful article.  Reading someone else’s emotions on a
topic you can directly relate to…has great value to me.  Personally I can
relate.  I have always been the only African American dude in all the IT
teams I have ever worked on in 16 years.  Despite how much I excelled in my
role and despite how much I was promoted…I was never given the title I
deserved.  It was never a compensation thing…always a title issue.  Caused
me to question, was it something more I needed to do? Or is it something
unrelated to what I can control?

 It took me years to settle on the fact that…it was NOT me and it was
something out of my control.  Can not control my nationality :)…  African
American forever!!!  With that clear understanding I could then move
forward and not carry that baggage.  I also can care less about titles and
have been able to prove that it does not matter just by the levels of
responsibility and technical ownership I have gained in my recent career
opportunities.

 Things to come to reality on is:

   - You will be a loan wolf in IT…just what it is
   - There will always be haters…the more folks hate you the better you are
   doing at your job :).  As long as your Director and VP love you…keep up the
   good work.
   - You will always have to be smarter, work harder and be better than
   others.  I teach this to my daughters daily.  There is no provision to fall
   off your game.
   - Embrace being special and let others know that you know you are
   special…and that it is cool with you!


 Sorry for the long email but, I was inspired.

 P.S.:  I hope I have not offended anyone with my direct note here…it comes
from the heart with love.


  Thanks,

 *Walter Bentley*
Cloud Solutions Architect – RPC
*Rackspace* – *the #1 Managed Cloud Company*

 Mobile:
Email: walter.b@rackspace
Learner | Achiever | Relator | Restorative | Individualization


  From: Dee dee@rackspace
Reply-To: Dee dee@RACKSPACE
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 at 2:43 PM
To: raap@rackspace raap@rackspace
Subject: FW: Interesting Article...Thoughts?



Hi Ladies and Gents!

   This has been floating around and I wanted to see what people thought:
https://medium.com/@ericajoy/the-other-side-of-diversity-1bb3de2f053e

Also has any one seen Interstellar I thought it was AMAZING!



Dee
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[Marxism] The latest from Obama on Assad

2014-11-15 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Just minutes ago in the QA after Obama's speech at the G20 in Brisbane.
Reporter: Just to be clear. are you active looking for a way to remove him
[Assad] as a part of that political transition?
President Obama: No.

Like I've been saying:

How Obama has supported Assad's gas murder always
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-obama-has-supported-assads-gas.html

Obama's Real Syria Policy: Endless War
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/10/obamas-real-syria-policy-endless-war.html

The Courtship Continues: Obama stopped French strike on Assad
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-courtship-continues-obama-stopped.html

The Courtship Continues: Obama's New Gift to Assad
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/09/the-courtship-continues-obamas-new-gift.html

How Obama Helped Assad Kill with Poison Gas in Syria
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/09/how-obama-helped-assad-kill-with-poison.html

Win-Win for Assad as Obama Response to CW Mass Murder Put on Hold
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/win-win-for-assad-as-obama-response-to.html

Obama Denied Gas Masks to Assad's Victims
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/obama-denied-gas-masks-to-assads-victims.html

Obama's Dilemma and Assad's Opportunity
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/08/obamas-dilemma-and-assads-opportunity.html

Barack Obama's Courtship of Bashar al-Assad
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/09/barack-obama-courtship-of-bashar-al_4519.html

Barack Obama's Courtship of Bashar al-Assad Exposed!
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/02/barack-obama-courtship-of-bashar-assad_6351.html

Obama green lights Assad's slaughter in Syria
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/08/updated-obama-lights-assad-slaughter-in_4655.html

Assad's Redline and Obama's Greenlight!
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/08/assad-redline-and-obama-greenlight_2292.html

Chemical weapons use in Syria, Has Obama's red-line has been crossed?
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/breaking-chemical-weapons-use-reported_2829.html

AP weighs in on Obama's Green Light for Assad's slaughter in Syria
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/ap-weighs-in-on-obama-green-light-for_1624.html

Syria: Obama's moves Assad's red line back as SOHR reports 42,000 dead!
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/syria-obama-moves-assad-line-back-as_1581.html

SecState John Kerry and his dear friend Bashar al-Assad
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2012/12/secstate-john-kerry-and-his-friend_6865.html

How Obama's *'No MANPADS for you'* policy in Syria is backfiring
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-obama-manpads-for-you-policy-in_8827.html

More thoughts on Obama's 'No MANPADS for you!' policy
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/01/more-thoughts-on-obama-manpads-for-you_1371.html

Obama: Did the CIA betray Assad's opposition in Syria?
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/02/obama-did-cia-betray-assad-opposition_1831.html

Obama planning drone strikes against Assad's opposition in Syria
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/03/obama-planning-drone-strikes-against.html

How Obama helps Assad: US tried to start war between FSA  al Nusra Front
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-obama-helps-assad-us-tried-to-start.html



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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[Marxism] Interesting Read: First Thanksgiving, , Red Eyes, , Invisibility of Racism

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I came across this in my Googling yesterday. Haven't read it all but
have already found it interesting enough to post here:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/First_Thanksgiving_LMTTM.html

First Thanksgiving,
Red Eyes,
Invisibility of Racism
excerpted from the book
Lies My Teacher Told Me
Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
by James W. Loewen
Touchstone Books, 1995, paper

p75
Michael Dorris
Considering that virtually none of the standard fare surrounding
Thanksgiving contains an ounce of authenticity, historical accuracy, or
cross-cultural perception, why is it so apparently ingrained? Is it
necessary to the American psyche to perpetually exploit and debase its
victims in order to justify its history?

p76
Howard Simpson

The Europeans were able to conquer America not because of their military
genius, or their religious motivation, or their ambition, or their
greed. They conquered it by waging unpremeditated biological warfare.

79
The scarcity of disease in the Americas was also partly attributable to
the basic hygiene practiced by the region's inhabitants. Residents of
northern Europe and England rarely bathed, believing it unhealthy, and
rarely removed all of their clothing at one time, believing it immodest.
The Pilgrims smelled bad to the Indians. Squanto tried, without
success, to teach them to bathe, according to Feenie Ziner, his biographer.

For all these reasons, the inhabitants of North and South America (like
Australian aborigines and the peoples of the far-flung Pacific islands)
were a remarkably healthy race before Columbus. Ironically, their very
health proved their undoing, for they had built up no resistance,
genetically or through childhood diseases, to the microbes that
Europeans and Africans would bring to them.

In 1617, just before the Pilgrims landed, the process started in
southern New England. For decades, British and French fishermen had
fished off the Massachusetts coast. After filling their hulls with cod,
they would go ashore to lay in firewood and fresh water and perhaps
capture a few Indians to sell into slavery in Europe. It is likely that
these fishermen transmitted some illness to the people they met. The
plague that ensued made the Black Death pale by comparison. Some
historians think the disease was the bubonic plague; others suggest that
it was viral hepatitis, smallpox, chicken pox, or influenza.

Within three years the plague wiped out between 90 percent and 96
percent of the inhabitants of coastal New England. The Indian societies
lay devastated. Only the twentieth person is scarce left alive, wrote
Robert Cushman, a British eyewitness, recording a death rate unknown in
all previous human experience. Unable to cope with so many corpses, the
survivors abandoned their villages and fled, often to a neighboring
tribe. Because they carried the infestation with them, Indians died who
had never encountered a white person. Howard Simpson describes what the
Pilgrims saw: Villages lay in ruins because there was no one to tend
them. The ground was strewn with the skulls and the bones of thousands
of Indians who had died and none was left to bury them.

During the next fifteen years, additional epidemics, most of which we
know to have been smallpox, struck repeatedly. European Americans also
contracted smallpox and the other maladies, to be sure, but they usually
recovered, including, in a later century, the heavily pockmarked George
Washington. Native Americans usually died. The impact of the epidemics
on the two cultures was profound. The English Separatists, already
seeing their lives as part of a divinely inspired morality play, found
it easy to infer that God was on their side. John Winthrop, governor of
the Massachusetts Bay Colony, called the plague miraculous. In 1634 he
wrote to a friend in England: But for the natives in these parts, God
hath so pursued them, as for 300 miles space the greatest part of them
are swept away by the smallpox which still continues among them. So as
God hath thereby cleared our title to this place, those who remain in
these parts, being in all not 50, have put themselves under our
protection ', God the Original Real Estate Agent!

Many Indians likewise inferred that their god had abandoned them. Robert
Cushman reported that those that are left, have their courage much
abated, and their countenance is dejected, and they seem as a people
affrighted. After a smallpox epidemic the Cherokee despaired so much
that they lost confidence in their gods and the priests destroyed the
sacred objects of the tribe. 25 After all, neither Indians nor Pilgrims
had access to the germ theory of disease. Indian healers 

Re: [Marxism] US Support to Ukraine

2015-02-03 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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James,

So are you of the opinion that We [ the world's people or We, the Marxists,
not the war party ] should allow Russia to militarily annex parts of
poor little Ukraine or any place else it likes without a fight , any time
Putin threatens to go nuclear?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:14 PM, James Creegan via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 After seeing Stephen Cohen on Democracy Now! this morning,
 I became much more aware of the possibility that the US-Russia proxy war
 in Ukraine could turn into an actual, perhaps nuclear, war. Cohen said
 that the war party (Samantha Power, Strobe Talbot) was now in the
 ascendancy in
 the Obama administration, and it looks more and more like the US is about
 to provide Kiev with military aid. Putin has said that Russia wouldn't
 hesitate
 to use tactical nukes if US/NATO forces were coming too close for comfort.

 So I think it only fair to ask Proyect and other partisans of poor little
 Ukraine on this listserve: Do you sympathize with the war party?
 Do you think US military aid to Ukraine would be a good thing?

 Jim Creegan  .
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Syria and the Left | New Politics

2015-02-03 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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 Yassin Al Haj Saleh. I am afraid that it is too late for the
 leftists in the West to express any solidarity with the Syrians in
 their extremely hard struggle. What I always found astonishing in
 this regard is that mainstream Western leftists know almost
 nothing about Syria, its society, its regime, its people, its
 political economy, its contemporary history. Rarely have I found a
 useful piece of information or a genuinely creative idea in their
 analyses.*My impression about this curious situation is that they
 simply do not see us,*

 This is racism. Can  we have a psychological and political discussion
 of the mechnanism white people us to render colored people invisible.

 The number ! problem with the US Left is racism.
  
I made these brief comments before I went to work this morning. I am
surprised, and frankly saddened, to see the lack of response.

Racism is one of the central problems of our movement. I believe racism
is the main factor holding back a Left that is dominated by white people.

Racism is an extremely complex system with intertwined economic,
political, cultural and psychological aspects.

The invisibility of non-white people by white people has long been
recognized as one of the key features or methods of racism and it
operates in many and complex matters. From a theoretical POV it has long
been discussed in a wide range of academic materials and I think it can
be useful in explaining things as wildly different as why the suffering
of the Syrian people can be ignored down to why my comment can be ignored.

Sometimes that is simply the easiest way to deal with an unpleasant
issue, provided you are in a position to ignore people and get away with it.

But this question of the invisibility of colored people goes deeper than
that. I would recommend Joel Kovel's White Racism: A Psychohistory as
a good starting point. As he says, Race, is already a produce of white
racism

You can not explain the reaction of the US Left to the struggle in
Syria, of the reaction of Americans generally to much of what goes on in
the world without looking at the role racism plays. While Yassin did not
name it. I think that we should. His observation about the US Left with
regards to Syrians is spot-on. *they simply do not see us *is an
aberrant behaviour of white people that we can given a name to, that we
can connect to the invisibility of non-white people that is a disease
which runs through our society and without the defeat of which
revolution is impossible.

But that's okay, just carry on as through I never made that important
observation.



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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Syria and the Left | New Politics

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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More on this:
 they simply do not see us; it is not about us at all. Syria is only an
 additional occasion for their old anti-imperialist tirades, never the
 living subject of the debate. So they do not really need to know about
 us. For them the country is only a black box about which you do not
 have to learn its internal structure and dynamics; actually it has no
 internal structure and dynamics according to their approach, one that
 is at the same time Western-centered and high-politics centered. 
Yes, Think about just about any King Kong, Tarzan, John Wayne movie set
in Africa, or it could be Asia, Latin America, Arabia, The people and
culture are just extras and setting. The real action, the real good guys
and bad guys, the real story is always about white people.

That is how the Left approaches the deaths of 200,000 non-white people
in Syria.
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Syria and the Left | New Politics

2015-02-03 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 Syria and the Left
 by Yassin Al-Haq Saleh

 Yassin Al Haj Saleh is one of Syria’s leading political dissidents. He
 spent from 1980-1996 in Syrian prisons and became one of the key
 intellectual voices of the 2011 Syrian uprising. He spent 21 months in
 hiding within Syria, eventually escaping to Istanbul. He was interviewed
 via email by New Politics co-editor Stephen R. Shalom in early November
 2014.

 New Politics. You have written eloquently about the ongoing struggle for
 progressive values in Syria. In most Western nations, particularly in the
 United States, the left has relatively little power. What do you think the
 Western left could best do to express its solidarity with the Syrian
 revolution?

 Yassin Al Haj Saleh. I am afraid that it is too late for the leftists in
 the West to express any solidarity with the Syrians in their extremely hard
 struggle. What I always found astonishing in this regard is that mainstream
 Western leftists know almost nothing about Syria, its society, its regime,
 its people, its political economy, its contemporary history. Rarely have I
 found a useful piece of information or a genuinely creative idea in their
 analyses. My impression about this curious situation is that they simply do
 not see us,

This is racism. Can  we have a psychological and political discussion of
the mechnanism white people us to render colored people invisible.

The number ! problem with the US Left is racism.
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[Marxism] Interesting Read: First Thanksgiving, , Red Eyes, , Invisibility of Racism

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I came across this in my Googling yesterday. Haven't read it all but
have already found it interesting enough to post here:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/First_Thanksgiving_LMTTM.html

First Thanksgiving,
Red Eyes,
Invisibility of Racism
excerpted from the book
Lies My Teacher Told Me
Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
by James W. Loewen
Touchstone Books, 1995, paper

p75
Michael Dorris
Considering that virtually none of the standard fare surrounding
Thanksgiving contains an ounce of authenticity, historical accuracy, or
cross-cultural perception, why is it so apparently ingrained? Is it
necessary to the American psyche to perpetually exploit and debase its
victims in order to justify its history?

p76
Howard Simpson

The Europeans were able to conquer America not because of their military
genius, or their religious motivation, or their ambition, or their
greed. They conquered it by waging unpremeditated biological warfare.

79
The scarcity of disease in the Americas was also partly attributable to
the basic hygiene practiced by the region's inhabitants. Residents of
northern Europe and England rarely bathed, believing it unhealthy, and
rarely removed all of their clothing at one time, believing it immodest.
The Pilgrims smelled bad to the Indians. Squanto tried, without
success, to teach them to bathe, according to Feenie Ziner, his biographer.

For all these reasons, the inhabitants of North and South America (like
Australian aborigines and the peoples of the far-flung Pacific islands)
were a remarkably healthy race before Columbus. Ironically, their very
health proved their undoing, for they had built up no resistance,
genetically or through childhood diseases, to the microbes that
Europeans and Africans would bring to them.

In 1617, just before the Pilgrims landed, the process started in
southern New England. For decades, British and French fishermen had
fished off the Massachusetts coast. After filling their hulls with cod,
they would go ashore to lay in firewood and fresh water and perhaps
capture a few Indians to sell into slavery in Europe. It is likely that
these fishermen transmitted some illness to the people they met. The
plague that ensued made the Black Death pale by comparison. Some
historians think the disease was the bubonic plague; others suggest that
it was viral hepatitis, smallpox, chicken pox, or influenza.

Within three years the plague wiped out between 90 percent and 96
percent of the inhabitants of coastal New England. The Indian societies
lay devastated. Only the twentieth person is scarce left alive, wrote
Robert Cushman, a British eyewitness, recording a death rate unknown in
all previous human experience. Unable to cope with so many corpses, the
survivors abandoned their villages and fled, often to a neighboring
tribe. Because they carried the infestation with them, Indians died who
had never encountered a white person. Howard Simpson describes what the
Pilgrims saw: Villages lay in ruins because there was no one to tend
them. The ground was strewn with the skulls and the bones of thousands
of Indians who had died and none was left to bury them.

During the next fifteen years, additional epidemics, most of which we
know to have been smallpox, struck repeatedly. European Americans also
contracted smallpox and the other maladies, to be sure, but they usually
recovered, including, in a later century, the heavily pockmarked George
Washington. Native Americans usually died. The impact of the epidemics
on the two cultures was profound. The English Separatists, already
seeing their lives as part of a divinely inspired morality play, found
it easy to infer that God was on their side. John Winthrop, governor of
the Massachusetts Bay Colony, called the plague miraculous. In 1634 he
wrote to a friend in England: But for the natives in these parts, God
hath so pursued them, as for 300 miles space the greatest part of them
are swept away by the smallpox which still continues among them. So as
God hath thereby cleared our title to this place, those who remain in
these parts, being in all not 50, have put themselves under our
protection ', God the Original Real Estate Agent!

Many Indians likewise inferred that their god had abandoned them. Robert
Cushman reported that those that are left, have their courage much
abated, and their countenance is dejected, and they seem as a people
affrighted. After a smallpox epidemic the Cherokee despaired so much
that they lost confidence in their gods and the priests destroyed the
sacred objects of the tribe. 25 After all, neither Indians nor Pilgrims
had access to the germ theory of disease. Indian healers 

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Syria and the Left | New Politics

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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This is where I am coming from.

There are many disadvantages to being black in a racist society.
Generally speaking, white people are better educated and have greater
access to technology. For these reasons alone, I don't find it
surprising that white men are found in the tech industries, even
Rackspace, in greater numbers than their part of the population would
otherwise explain.

But as something is taken away, something is also given.

I have also found that the various experiences of racism, and especially
the experiences of my generation and since in consciously fighting
against it, coupled with an economy that relegates most black people to
its bottom and offering less opportunity for salvation within the
capitalist model, have fostered a consciousness that is more advanced
politically, how shall I put, more left, than among white people
generally. This view can easily be supported by differences in voting
patterns, attitudes toward imperialists wars, third world countries,
etc. Another aspect of this is that white chauvinism tends to retard the
thinking of white people to the extend that it affects them. For these
reasons alone, I would expect to find black people in greater numbers
than their part in the population in what we generally refer to as the
Left, and also in a greater part of the leadership. But that is not the
case.

The question is why?

I have my own opinions on this based on 48 years in the Left that had
hardly begun before I found myself leading and overwhelmingly white SDS
chapter at an overwhelmingly white university in St. Louis, MO. in 1968.
But its not my opinion that is important. What is important is that
nothing is really done about it. People don't even want to discuss it.

Yassin started this conversation with a very current example of why the
Left ego-centric approach to the suffering of the Syrian people repels
Arabs and will for some time. It will also tend to repel black people
more than white people because black people tend to identify with the
victim and refugee more.

The question is why does the Left repel black people generally?

I think this is a critical question to resolve because I think it is the
single most important problem holding back the revolutionary forces in
what we like to call the belly of the beast. The problem as I see it is
that this white-centric Left occupies the ground we should be fighting
from and little will change in prospects for revolution in the US before
this nut is cracked. I raise the issue for discussion and get back this:

On 2/4/2015 12:26 AM, Charles Faulkner wrote:
 clay, the left has done more in the fight against racism than
 liberals, moderates or the right. 
That is a congratulatory, self-serving opinion that probably the
majority of people wouldn't agree with if you consider MLK Jr. and most
of those who rallied with him liberal or moderate.

Why does this strike a cord with me?
http://www.hipmama.com/features/black-invisibility-and-racism-punk-rock-tasha-fierce

 I'd always get pissed off when, on IRC in a punk chat room, people
 would just assume I was white. Even when I gave them my pics, they'd
 think of every ethnicity but black to guess as my race.
  
 When I would tell them, Well, I'm half black and half white, they'd
 be shocked.
  
 You're /black?/?? would invariably be the reply. Wow, I've never
 met a black punk.
  
 I suppose eventually I learned to take it in stride, but I also
 started to think about the subtle racism contained in that reaction.
 It's as if when I state my race as being black, automatically a taste
 in music, a style of clothing, and a type of speech come with it. I'm
 sure most of these punk rock revolutionary kids don't even notice that
 they're prejudiced the way they are. I'm sure they believe they are
 totally open-minded and that there is nary a racist thought in their
 liberty-spiked head. I'm sorry to say that this is not the case.
Emphasis on the last two sentences. And yes, I know you're better than
the punk rockers. Is that your argument? Is that your claim to fame?
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[Marxism] More from Black Invisibility and Racism in Punk Rock

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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http://www.hipmama.com/features/black-invisibility-and-racism-punk-rock-tasha-fierce

 Invisibility is paired with racism. Once I got here, they had insults
 waiting. The invisibility manifests in the fact that they don't even
 know a black person could like punk. The racism illuminates the
 reality that, although I have that one thing in common with them, I am
 still an alien being. Maybe it’s because punk hasn't been
 infiltrated by blacks for as long as some other forms of music, and
 they don't know how to act around a black person who likes anything
 other than rap or RB. Maybe all they know of black people are the
 stereotypes they've been force-fed by popular culture. You can't turn
 on a TV today and see many black people doing anything but what white
 people think they're supposed to. It's like a caricature, and in all
 my encounters with people in the scene, they are operating off of
 this caricature - and I don't fit it. They pay lip service to stopping
 racism yet it's not racism when they say a thousand black men at the
 bottom of the ocean is a good start and then laugh. Saying nigger
 isn't appropriate but nothing is said when I'm called, disparagingly,
 a Rastafarian because I have braids. Because we're all fighting for
 the same cause, right? We all hate the government and we all love
 punk, and what does it matter that I feel isolated because I never see
 another black face and you're constantly telling me I'm an aberration?
 This isn’t about fuck punk. It's about fuck you and your racist
 attitudes. It's about you waking up and realizing that you're not some
 kind of revolutionary while you continue to support this
 institutionalized racism that has poisoned even your precious little
 punk rock community.
 The idea of punk rock as some kind of beacon of open-mindedness is
 bullshit. Most white punk rockers like to consider themselves absolved
 of their privilege simply because they publicly denounce racism and
 don't attend weekly KKK meetings. Let me reiterate: JUST BECAUSE YOU
 THINK RACISM IS WRONG DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT A RACIST.

 Whites will always have that underlying residual racism, and that
 applies as much to the punk rocker as it does to the redneck. People
 will always have the need to feel superior, and for whites one area
 that they have been made to feel is superior about them for so many
 years is the color of their skin. This does not change when you start
 to like punk rock. Yes, you can recognize that white superiority is
 false. Yes, you can work to change it, and yes, you have all made such
 wonderful progress. But shreds of memories of being number one, even
 if it wasn't in your lifetime, will always haunt you. This is what
 causes my invisibility in your punk rock world and this is what causes
 you to believe that it is O.K. to say one thing and do another.
 I seriously doubt the issue of racism and invisibility in punk will
 ever be resolved, much like the issue of racism in society. I just
 want it to be known that although punk rock claims to be fighting the
 larger war, it must first win its own internal battle before any
 progress will be made.
These questions are far more important in the world of revolutionary
politics than they are in the world of punk.
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[Marxism] White Black attitudes

2015-02-04 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Here's another example of what I was talking about earlier:

http://www.everydaysociologyblog.com/2014/08/michael-brown-ferguson-missouri-and-the-invisibility-of-race.html

 According to a recent Pew Research Center poll
 http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/,
 Blacks and whites, as well as Democrats and Republicans, have starkly
 different views of this tragic incident. Whites and Republicans tend
 to downplay the racial significance of this tragedy whereas Blacks and
 Democrats are more likely to emphasize the importance of race. Here
 are some of the key findings of the poll:

   * 80% of Blacks said that the Michael Brown case raised important
 issues about race whereas only 37% of whites expressed this opinion
   * 47% of whites felt that race is getting more attention than it
 deserves in this case whereas only 12% of Blacks expressed this
 opinion
   * 65% of Blacks thought the police response had gone too far whereas
 only 33% of whites felt the same way
   * 68% of Democrats thought that this case raises important issues
 about race whereas only 22% of Republicans expressed this opinion
   * 61% of Republicans felt that race was getting too much attention
 with this issue whereas only 22% of whites felt the same way

 When I consider these findings I can't help but feel confusion and
 concern. How is it possible that /anyone/ could think that the
 shooting of Michael Brown /does not/ raise important issues about
 race? The fact that two-thirds of whites expressed this viewpoint is
 astounding.

How do we square this reality with the reality of a white dominated Left?
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[Marxism] How the Left's shill for Obama's red-line con fueled the rise of ISIS

2015-02-02 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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/New from Linux Beach://
/


  How the Left's shill for Obama's red-line con fueled the rise of
  ISIS
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/02/how-lefts-shill-for-obamas-red-line-con.html

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/02/how-lefts-shill-for-obamas-red-line-con.html
 For four years now, US President Barack Obama has been conning the
 world and most importantly, the Syrian people, about his support for
 the popular uprising to overthrow the fascist dictatorship of Bashar
 al-Assad. He has been playing an old con game with Assad's opposition,
 one best played by people with power, known as /Good Cop, Bad Cop./

 In the game of /Good Cop, Bad Cop/ you are confronted by two cops.
 One is mean, roughs you up, and is clearly intent on sending you to
 Hell. The other speaks out in your favor, claims to see your side,
 befriends you, complains about the /Bad Cop/ and brings you the
 occasional candy bar. In the case of some /favored/ Syrian rebel
 brigades, that might be as little as 16 bullets
 http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/27/exclusive-obama-cuts-funds-for-the-syrian-rebels-he-claims-to-support.html
 per man. Just enough for the shills to call them /the US-backed
 rebels./ The /Good Cop/ always claims that he would do more but for
 the constraints put on him by the police organization, in this case
 the United Nations, and his partner, in this case Vladimir Putin. The
 /Good Cop/ works hard to convince the target that he is in the
 mark's corner just so that he will be in a position to pull the rug
 out from underneath the victim of the con at the critical moment,
 known as The Sting.

 Getting the mark to believe something that is not true is pivotal to
 every con job and that's why every grift requires a shill. The Long
 Con http://leverage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Con says of this role
 /The Shill: An accomplice to the grifter, who has no apparent
 connection to the con. Shills are put in place to encourage the mark
 to act in the desired way. /The book also says /Long cons play on
 one or both basic human frailties: greed and desperation./ In the
 case of Syria, it has been the desperation of a people facing daily
 slaughter that has led the mark to seek the aid of the grifter in the
 first place.

 Given the lack of much of a material reality behind Obama's /support
 for the Syrian rebels/, he badly needed a shill to pull his con off.
 He needed a seemingly independent, or better still, seemingly
 oppositional voice, also loudly claiming that Obama really was for
 overthrowing Assad. The Left obliged him, even staging years of
 /Hands off Syria/ demonstrations, as if! As if Obama was ever going
 to get militarily involved in a serious way except on Assad's side.

 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m35rpCW5ai0/UX7D9Le4CbI/API/Bx5iaRwIZWs/s1600/Obama-stolls-Assad.jpg
 Obama's famous /red-line/ proclamation of August 2012 has turned out
 to be his most cynical and destructive con job to date. At the time I
 said
 http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2012/08/updated-obama-lights-assad-slaughter-in_4655.html
 he was giving a green light to Assad's slaughter by every other means.
 Here we had the /Good Cop/ saying, I may not be able to stop the
 /Bad Cops/, Assad and Putin, from shelling hospitals and barrel
 bombing schools, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let them kill you
 with chemical weapons too. It was a con from the minute he said it.
 Who uses language like /a whole bunch of chemical weapons/ in an
 ultimatum he wants taken seriously? Just what constitutes /a whole
 bunch of chemical weapons/ anyway? How do we know when /that/
 red-line has been crossed?


*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/02/how-lefts-shill-for-obamas-red-line-con.html
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[Marxism] On Democracy Now today: Amy sends another Valentine to Bashar

2015-02-06 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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New from Linux Beach:


  On Democracy Now today: Amy sends another Valentine to Bashar
  
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/02/on-democracy-now-today-amy-sends.html

 This is what Amy Goodman had to say
 https://www.blogger.com/www.democracynow.org/2015/2/6/headlines#268
 about yesterday's carnage in Syria on *Democracy Now* this morning:

 Scores of people were killed in and around the Syrian capital of
 Damascus on Thursday when rebels fired a barrage of rockets into
 several neighborhoods and government warplanes bombed
 opposition-held areas.

 Other than the fact that she has the rebels attacking neighborhoods
 and the regime attacking military positions, the report sounds pretty
 even handed. So why do I say this is pro-Assad propaganda? Because
 according to a more detailed report from *EAWorldView*, yesterday was
 one of Assad's bloodiest. 130 people were killed by the Assad regime
 while 6 may have been were killed by the rebel rockets Amy chose to
 highlight. This is typical of *Democracy Now's* shameful reporting on
 Syria and why I say /even-handed/ Amy's reports on Syria are
 Valentines to Bashar. As Desmond Tutu famously said /If you are
 neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the
 oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you
 say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality./

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/02/on-democracy-now-today-amy-sends.html


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Re: [Marxism] oops, re White NZ policy - there should have been four pieces

2015-02-06 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Thanks,

I look forward to reading them.

On 2/6/2015 8:00 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism wrote:
 the initial four articles we've stuck up on the White New Zealand policy
 and the theoretical tools for analysing it.  We'll be looking at the


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Re: [Marxism] Overview of the war in Ukraine, Feb 6, 2015

2015-02-06 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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On 2/6/2015 7:53 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:
 The entire international left except me, Andy Pollack, Zbigniew
 Kowalewski and Gabriel Levy support the separatists. Maybe I forgot
 one or two others.
You can add me to that list. Only, I don't call them separatists. How
often are seperatists better armed, have heavier and more advanced
weapons, better communications, and a stronger supply chain than the
state they are trying separate from? The joke is that a Left that is
so quick to condemn any Libyan or Syrian revolutionary as a US pawn if
they accept as little as 16 bullets from NATO, can see all this
obviously Russian heavy weaponry across the border in Ukraine and still
accept the mythology that these are seperatists . [ A mythology which
the Western bourgoise is also clinging too because they don't want to
face the reality that a rival imperailist power is willing to go to the
matresses.]

But it is already clear after the absolute bankruptcy of what passes for
the Left these days on Syria, anything is possible.

I think we should call it like it is and call them what they are:
ANNEXATIONISTS!.
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Re: [Marxism] Ukraine

2015-02-07 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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I US was also the biggest imperialist power in the 1930's. Was it also the
primary threat to world peace? Or was that Britain then?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Ron J via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 But this is about a lot more than the concerns of the average Ukrainian.
 Those concerns merely make it easier for the US supported government to
 manipulate Ukrainians to war.



 On Feb 7, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 2/7/15 11:57 AM, Ron J via Marxism wrote:
  Both sides are proxies for outside interests. US imperialism remains
 the primary threat to world peace, not a wannabe empire in Moscow.
 
  That's definitely true but for the average Ukrainian, Russia has been a
 threat to Ukrainian peace for 300 years.

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Re: [Marxism] Ukraine

2015-02-08 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Calling this a  proxy war is entirely too kind to Russia. Russian troops in
Ukraine aren't proxies, they are Russian troops invading Ukraine, and on
the US side, just talking about arming one side doesn't make them a proxy.

My point about the 30's is not to make the point about whether the US or
Britain was the biggest imperialist, it was to point out that among
imperialist powers, it is often the up and coming power(s) that are
demanding a bigger piece of the imperialist pie that is the main threat to
peace.

Wars are generally initiated to force a change, so the biggest threat to
peace is generally the party demanding change, even if their demand is for
a just peace. In Syria and Libya, pre-2011, the biggest threat to peace
were the masses who showed they were now willing to go to the mattresses in
the fight for justice. I think this is where the peace movements in the
western countries have a problem with these revolutions. They break the
peace and bring war so its easy for these Leftists to assume the US must be
behind something terrible. Generally it is those that are comfortable in
their positions that want peace at any price, because the price of the
current un-just peace isn't too high for them.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ron J via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Poor analogy and as meaningless as the argument that the US client regime
 is all fascist.



 On Feb 7, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 2/7/15 2:23 PM, Ron J wrote:
  But this is about a lot more than the concerns of the average
 Ukrainian. Those concerns merely make it easier for the US supported
 government to manipulate Ukrainians to war.
 
  Funny thing here.
 
  Kim Scipes wrote about this stuff a few days ago (
 http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/02/06/us-ukraine-and-russia-what-went-wrong),
 giving his nod to John Mearsheimer, the U. of Chicago realist:
 
  -Mearsheimer labeled Russia’s response highly understandable. Russia
 made clear this situation was categorically unacceptable. He said that if
 we wanted a good analogy, we should look at the US response to the Soviet
 Union’s placement of missiles in Cuba in 1962 or even the Monroe Doctrine
 itself, which he described as telling other world powers to stay out of
 our neighborhood, the entire Western Hemisphere.-
 
  That this appalling analogy has so much traction with the left makes me
 all the more committed to my stand on Ukraine. Think about it. Mearsheimer
 says that Russia has just as much right to control what happens on its
 borders or nearby as the USA had in Cuba. What kind of left can read this
 horseshit and pat itself on the back that an establishment figure has come
 over to our side. In reality, it is the left that has gone over to his
 side and don't you ever forget it.
 

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Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist

2015-01-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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What CH does is use extremists of color as an excuse to use the traditional
racist caricatures to imply by their focused coverage that non-white people
are responsible for the main problems in the world.

CH is racism done the modern way, It has the distant of deniablity that
so-called Marxists like Dan can support.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
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[Marxism] Obama and Israel Love Assad

2015-01-19 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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/New from Linux Beach:/


  Obama and Israel Love Assad
  http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/obama-and-israel-love-assad.html

 The terror industry is now working hard to create the perception that
 any European or American that goes to Syria to fight against the
 fascist regime should automatically be considered an Islamic terrorist
 and locked up immediately. This is yet another boon to the Assad
 government from the NATO powers. While its true that due to the almost
 complete abandonment of the Syrian people's struggle by the Left,
 those young people worldwide moved by the suffering of Syria are
 likely to fall under the influence of extreme rightwing jihadist
 groups, it is not true that most who have travelled to Syria to take
 up the fight against the Assad regime pose a danger to civil society
 in Europe or America. The NATO powers are more and more coming out of
 the closet with their support for Assad and this is one more way of
 accepting his proposition that the only thing we have in Syria are the
 terrorists he's been funding and his fight against then. From the Wall
 St. Journal we have
 http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/01/15/why-the-u-s-prefers-assad-to-isis-in-syria/:

 Why the U.S. Prefers Assad to ISIS in Syria


 By Aaron David Miller
 15 Jan 2015
 The news that the Obama administration supports Russian efforts to
 convene negotiations between Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s
 government and opposition forces is a stunning reminder of where U.S.
 policy on Syria has devolved. As happened with the Russian chemical
 weapons proposal of 2012, Vladimir Putin is once again rescuing U.S.
 Syria policy from itself. The Moscow talks are not likely to succeed.
 But the announcement reflects a growing view in Washington that Mr.
 Assad, while a huge part of the problem, may also now be part of the
 solution. Washington will not abandon President Barack Obama’s “Assad
 must go” trope. But the administration clearly is moving to accept
 that Mr. Assad isn’t going anywhere. And here’s why.

*More..*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/obama-and-israel-love-assad.html
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Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???

2015-01-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Thank you Charles.

After reading how Charlie Hebdo has had an obsessive anti-Islamic focus
since 9/11/2001 and seeing millions of people unwittingly uniting with that
history under the popular hash tag #JeSuisCharlie (I'm with Charlie) in
the name of freedom of speech, I sought to fashion an effective agitational
response that would sharply point out what was wrong with raising this
slogan in defense of free speech. So:

#JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is
quite another to march with them.

and

#JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the KKK's freedom of speech. It is
quite another say Je Suis KKK.

Since the medium of this campaign is twitter, I had to fit my agitation
into 140 characters or less.  I suspect Ken's nuanced and long winded
writing style doesn't understand twitter too well.

I posted it here because I think it is a good example of political
agitation and education on twitter, not to start an inflamed discussion on
this list about the differences between Charlie and Adolph.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

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[Marxism] Charlie Hebdo is Racist

2015-01-15 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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/Republished on Linux Beach:/


  Charlie Hebdo is Racist
  http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-is-racist.html

One can and should defend freedom of speech without at the same time
uniting with those who abuse free speech to spread a racist message of
hatred. After the brutal political murders of twelve Charlie Hebdo
staffers in Paris last week, the slogan Je Suis Charlie or I'm with
Charlie has become the rallying cry of those outraged by this attack.
People are properly outraged by these attacks in France and right to see
them as attacks on free speech and freedom of the press and to rush to
the defense of those freedoms. It is possible to do all that without
uniting with a magazine which has had an obsessive focus on stoking
Islamaphoba since 11 September 2001. What follows is a piece written by
Oliver Cyran, who worked at Charlie Hebdo from 1992 to 2001. He wrote it
5 December 2013 in response to an opinion piece on Le Monde written by
Charb [Stéphane Charbonnier, one of the cartoonists murdered in January
2015] and Fabrice Nicolino. I want to thank Richard Seymour of Lenin's
Tomb
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-not-racist-if-you-say-so.html
bring attention to this. The original
http://www.article11.info/?Charlie-Hebdo-pas-raciste-Si-vous was
published in French and translated to English
http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm
by Daphine Lawless
http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charlieindex.htm. I am
re-printing in in my blog because I want all those who are shouting /Je
Suis Charlie/ to know just what they are uniting with. I must also add,
as one who appreciates good wordsmithing, that this is a great read!

*More...*
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-is-racist.html

-- 
Clay Claiborne, Owner
Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/
116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9
Venice Beach, CA 90291
(310)581-1536

(323) 219-6507 cell
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Re: [Marxism] US to train Syrian rebels

2015-01-16 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Curious why the US has been saying for 4 years now that its going to start
training Syrian rebels any day now?
Curious why they keep lying?
Curious why you keep spreading their propaganda as if it had some substance?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 All I'm saying is curioser and curioser.

 On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

  On 1/16/15 8:56 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
 
 
  http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0KP0FO20150116?irpc=932
 
 
 
  The U.S. military is planning to deploy more than 400 troops to help
  train Syrian rebels to fight the ISLAMIC STATE, along with hundreds of
 U.S.
  support personnel, a Pentagon spokesman told Reuters on Thursday.
 
  Yes, the USA trains rebels to fight ISIS, while Assad drops barrel bombs
  on the rebels. This is all part of the American imperialist strategy to
  consolidate a stable Baathist state over the ashes of a failed armed
  struggle. The NY Times report on the peace negotiations conveyed this
  exactly:
 
   “The U.S. has no irons in the fire,” Mr. Hokayem said. “It basically
   wants to maintain the illusion of involvement, while maintaining the
   reality of disentanglement and distance from this whole nightmare.”
 
 
 
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Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???,

2015-01-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
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Its perfectly okay if you want to branch my original post off into this
tangent as long as you recognize the fact that the statement:

#JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the Nazis right to march and quite
another thing to march with them.

Does not imply that anyone, even the writer, does in fact support the
Nazis' right to march, only that there is a big political difference
between between these two stands. Further, this was directed at people who
probably do support the Nazis's right to march but won't march with them
but are now doing both with the extreme Islamaphobic Charlie Hebdo.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/
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