Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 06/07/2015 08:56 πμ, Sheldon Ranz via Marxism wrote: All along, Tzipras' offer of concessions was a bluff. He knew that the Troika would reject them, so he 'offered' them knowing that the Troika's arrogant rejection of them would galvanize the Greek electorate into giving him a majority Too speculative per se. Yet facts are very stubborn and this http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/01/news/economy/greece-prime-minister-letter-bailout-concessions/ does not look like three dimensional chess. You can not bluff with no cards. JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 06/07/2015 10:53 πμ, Lüko Willms wrote: on Montag, 6. Juli 2015 at 02:07, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote: * And we in ANTARSYA had the right thing to say. It was us who have something to say about the next day. * and what did you say? I just don't know. How do you think to mobilize the 25% unemployed back into productive activity, really taking their destiny in their working hands? Cheers, Lüko Willms Well it was not a legislative election and the point of gravity was not on your question. Of course you can find Antarsya's positions summed up at: http://antarsya.gr/node/2867 and this article http://rs21.org.uk/2015/01/21/greek-elections-the-strategic-challenges-for-the-left/ by P Sotiris of ARAN, ANTARSYA's right wing. JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * on Montag, 6. Juli 2015 at 02:07, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote: And we in ANTARSYA had the right thing to say. It was us who have something to say about the next day. and what did you say? I just don't know. How do you think to mobilize the 25% unemployed back into productive activity, really taking their destiny in their working hands? Cheers, Lüko Willms _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Agreed totally. I confess to thinking the YES camp would win. But this is just wonderful news. The working class vote was up to 90% NO. Decisiveness on the part of the people won the day. I particularly enjoy recalling Alan Kohler's prediction of a YES as he cl;aimed there was no alternative. He can shove his no alternative now. I will be so bold as to predict a retreat by Merkel and co. If they do not deal with Tsirpas and Varoufakis, then they may have to deal with someone a lot tougher. comradely Gary On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:44 AM, John Passant via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There is joy in the streets of Greece that echoes in my heart. Thank you to the working class in Greece. You have restored hope for humanity. http://enpassant.com.au/2015/07/06/the-greek-working-class-overwhelmingly-rejects-austerity/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The proletariat won a victory today in greece. In spite of the terror crusade of the bourgeois parties and EU officials In spite of Syriza's ambivalence about the referendum: till Wednesday it was unclear whether the referendum was to take place or not. In spite of Tsipras letter to the troika begging for any compromise and the declarations of retreat by top government officials, talking again about a deal as soon as in 48 hours after the referendum! The level of the greek working class was too high for the referendum. The victory was visible in the streets: Working class people were asking for more NO leaflets for their friends. I had phone calls at home from people i just knew who were asking questions about the no vote. It is the first time in my militant life since 1977 that the masses were looking for me to hear my opinion and not me for them. And we in ANTARSYA had the right thing to say. It was us who have something to say about the next day. People were asking us because nobody could take seriously syriza's bullshit about restarting the negotiations. We were the only political force speaking out a clear no to memoranda, whether right wind or left wing here and now. No, till the end was our banner and that is the meaning of the vote It is now clear enough that Tsipras wanted a stalemate result, a shy no vote to struggle for its government's survival. And that he had dared call for a referendum because of the hesitation and ambivalence of the greek bourgeoisie who refused to sacrifice capital (in tourism and pharmaceutics industry and, above all, in shipping industry) refused to see itself slipping down in the imperialist chain. But OXI, no got a 61,3% of the vote and that had already a seismic effect. Samaras resigned from his party's presidency. He could not even wait until the election of a new leader. KKE has lost at least two thirds of his January votes. Many of its members and cadres were overtly for the no vote. This is more than crossing the Rubicon for a Stalinist CP. The government is steping aside, hiding itself behind the bourgeois parties.Late this night Tsipras declared that he will ask president Pavlopoulos to convene the council of the political leaders which will decide about the eventual negotiations. Decide with whom? With ND's transitional president since Samaras resigned. With the lords of terror, the bourgeois leaders who for a whole week were repeating Armageddon in every single phrase, who till yesterday were chanting that voting NO means NO to EU and euro and today have no shame to declare that after all, the NO vote of the people does NOT at all mean a rejection of the EU and euro. The class struggle is getting really acute here, and this is not a third world country... JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The class struggle is getting really acute here, and this is not a third world country... ...and there is no proof that Tsipras is some sort of sell-out, your claims notwithstanding. All along, Tzipras' offer of concessions was a bluff. He knew that the Troika would reject them, so he 'offered' them knowing that the Troika's arrogant rejection of them would galvanize the Greek electorate into giving him a majority during the ensuing referendum. Getting a majority was crucial since Syriza itself won less than a majority during its initial election victory. Unlike Obama, Tzipras is the true master of three-dimensional chess! He doesn't do stalemates. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Congratulations to the Greek working class and to you JA, Your hard work helped get the good results. Thanks for telling us about your experiences, about what's going on... Best wishes for good results in the coming struggles, Dayne On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 6:07 PM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: The proletariat won a victory today in greece. In spite of the terror crusade of the bourgeois parties and EU officials In spite of Syriza's ambivalence about the referendum: till Wednesday it was unclear whether the referendum was to take place or not. In spite of Tsipras letter to the troika begging for any compromise and the declarations of retreat by top government officials, talking again about a deal as soon as in 48 hours after the referendum! The level of the greek working class was too high for the referendum. The victory was visible in the streets: Working class people were asking for more NO leaflets for their friends. I had phone calls at home from people i just knew who were asking questions about the no vote. It is the first time in my militant life since 1977 that the masses were looking for me to hear my opinion and not me for them. And we in ANTARSYA had the right thing to say. It was us who have something to say about the next day. People were asking us because nobody could take seriously syriza's bullshit about restarting the negotiations. We were the only political force speaking out a clear no to memoranda, whether right wind or left wing here and now. No, till the end was our banner and that is the meaning of the vote It is now clear enough that Tsipras wanted a stalemate result, a shy no vote to struggle for its government's survival. And that he had dared call for a referendum because of the hesitation and ambivalence of the greek bourgeoisie who refused to sacrifice capital (in tourism and pharmaceutics industry and, above all, in shipping industry) refused to see itself slipping down in the imperialist chain. But OXI, no got a 61,3% of the vote and that had already a seismic effect. Samaras resigned from his party's presidency. He could not even wait until the election of a new leader. KKE has lost at least two thirds of his January votes. Many of its members and cadres were overtly for the no vote. This is more than crossing the Rubicon for a Stalinist CP. The government is steping aside, hiding itself behind the bourgeois parties.Late this night Tsipras declared that he will ask president Pavlopoulos to convene the council of the political leaders which will decide about the eventual negotiations. Decide with whom? With ND's transitional president since Samaras resigned. With the lords of terror, the bourgeois leaders who for a whole week were repeating Armageddon in every single phrase, who till yesterday were chanting that voting NO means NO to EU and euro and today have no shame to declare that after all, the NO vote of the people does NOT at all mean a rejection of the EU and euro. The class struggle is getting really acute here, and this is not a third world country... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A wonderful result indeed Gary. Now for the hard work. John -- From: Gary MacLennan gary.maclenn...@gmail.com To: en.pass...@bigpond.com; marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu; Subject: Re: [Marxism] The Greek working class overwhelmingly rejects austerity Agreed totally. I confess to thinking the YES camp would win. But this is just wonderful news. The working class vote was up to 90% NO. Decisiveness on the part of the people won the day. I particularly enjoy recalling Alan Kohler's prediction of a YES as he cl;aimed there was no alternative. He can shove his no alternative now. I will be so bold as to predict a retreat by Merkel and co. If they do not deal with Tsirpas and Varoufakis, then they may have to deal with someone a lot tougher. comradely Gary On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:44 AM, John Passant via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There is joy in the streets of Greece that echoes in my heart. Thank you to the working class in Greece. You have restored hope for humanity. http://enpassant.com.au/2015/07/06/the-greek-working-class-overwhelmingly-rejects-austerity/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
