Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This part of the city is almost entirely black and has been for many years. All of the whites I work with supported Obama and live in essentially white communities. And almost all of my neighbors supported Obama--except for one oddball hyperpatriot African American veteran and gun nut around the corner. I can't recall once where the presidential election came up among my white coworkers--including the nominal radicals, socialists, and Marxists--where one or another of them did not challenge my racist opposition to Obama, though charges that I was complicit in the Republican War On Women seemed to be about twice as popular. In contrast, none of my black neighbors saw the election this way. They have always tended to view my Green Party yard signs rather charitably, as a kind of well-intentioned eccentricity on my part, I guess. A few talked about the need for role models, etc., though this seemed part of a more general American brainwashing about celebrity--better to have a celebrity who did crappy things than no celebrity at all. Their general view wasn't that Obama would do anything at all to improve conditions here but that a Republican victory would be seen as a green light for the whites to crack down actively more aggressively on the black community across various fronts. We've seen a series of policy decisions that should be conveying a lesson, most dramatically perhaps the stream of stories about shootings and brutalization of blacks by police forces functioning more like armies of occupation. But the lessons learned, I fear, is the groundless assertion that the Republicans would have done much worse, and this view vindicates their earlier decision. As to the whites, I think the undaunting and undented self-love most of them have in such ample supply will prohibit any critical examination of any of their many past errors. As I've said before, the imminent campaign to put Hillary in the White House just makes me cringe. Here in Ohio, we're already getting polled by robo-calls regularly. The prospect of spending the election year out of its earshot is very appealing. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lause got it right. The first time Obama ran, the customary leafy-headed white liberals on my job were all wetting their pants with delight. A black fellow union brother said he didn't think Obama could win. When I asked how come he said, Because he's got a black wife. Perhaps some white radicals need to go through some experiences, whatever that means. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sep 13, 2014 3:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What did I mean that Afro Americans had to go through the experience of a black presidency? The answer seems obvious to me. The class always has to learn and often the hard way through experience. I do not live in the USA of course and so cannot speak from direct experience, but I would hazard the guess that Afro-Americans are probably still rusted on to Obama and will remain loyal to the end. I have no criticisms of that- comprendre est tout pardonner. What I do criticize, is the continued fostering of the noxious illusion that there is a progressive moment left in the Democratic Party. Hopefully the experience of the Obama presidency may have hastened the end that particular delusion. Without wishing to strike a far left note, it seems to me that the deep structure of Moore's criticism of Obama is that a progressive Democratic President is still a possibility. I would hold that it is not. comradely Gary On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lause got it right. The first time Obama ran, the customary leafy-headed white liberals on my job were all wetting their pants with delight. A black fellow union brother said he didn't think Obama could win. When I asked how come he said, Because he's got a black wife. Perhaps some white radicals need to go through some experiences, whatever that means. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sep 13, 2014 3:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1
[Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams-obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
