Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

http://www.blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire

That is the same link I posted;

Trump Way to the Left of Clinton on Foreign Policy – In Fact, He’s Damn
> Near Anti-Empire


 Donald Trump may have done the world an even greater service, by calling
> into question the very pillars of U.S. imperial policy: the NATO alliance;
> the U.S. nuclear “umbrella”; the global network of 1,000 U.S. bases;
> military “containment” of China and Russia; and U.S. “strategic” claims in
> the Persian Gulf. Were the U.S. to actually rid itself of these strategic
> “obligations,” the military hand on the doomsday clock would immediately be
> rolled back, giving humanity the breathing space to tackle other
> accumulated crises.



> Trump’s language is sloppy, but there can be no mistaking the thrust of
> his position on key points. He calls NATO, the globe-strutting
> Euro-American military juggernaut that extended its domain to Africa with
> the 2011 war of regime change in Libya, an alliance that is “unfair,
> economically, to us.” Trump told the New York Times that NATO should focus
> on “counter-terrorism” – clearly a fundamentally scaled-down mission.


Like I said before BAR may want to pull a Jill Stein and re-write this post
without admitting it given the massive increases in the US military that
Trump proposed today.

The adjective "objectively" isn't necessary. BAR is pro-Trump.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:16 PM, A.R. G via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> I do recall BAR posting some arguments that Trump is "anti-imperialist," so
> while they may not be pro-Trump, I think Clay is correct that they've at
> least posted some Trump apologetics.
>
> Here is the piece in particular:
> http://www.blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire
>
> And here is the antidote:
> https://newrepublic.com/article/135775/liberals-keep-
> calling-donald-trump-dove
>
> - Amith
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%
> 40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[A.R. G via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I do recall BAR posting some arguments that Trump is "anti-imperialist," so
while they may not be pro-Trump, I think Clay is correct that they've at
least posted some Trump apologetics.

Here is the piece in particular:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire

And here is the antidote:
https://newrepublic.com/article/135775/liberals-keep-calling-donald-trump-dove

- Amith
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

On 9/7/16 9:06 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote:

**

Black Agenda Report is pro-Trump, which is extremely rare among black
organizations. In fact, its the only one I know of.


Yeah, well, BAR is as "pro-Trump" as me, Jill Stein, and anybody else 
who doesn't want to join the Hillary Clinton express. If you want to use 
Marxist language to make this bogus argument even slightly credible, you 
need to say that we are "objectively pro-Trump". When you throw in 
"objectively", it gives you the necessary wiggle room.

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I should also add that maybe Glenn Ford might want to pull a Jill Stein

on this blog post given the powerful new military Trump called for today.

Clay

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> Black Agenda Report is pro-Trump, which is extremely rare among black
> organizations. In fact, its the only one I know of.
>
>  http://www.blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire
>
> Of course, they are also pro-Putin, pro-Gaddafi and pro-Assad, so go
> figure.
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
>
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Black Agenda Report is pro-Trump, which is extremely rare among black
organizations. In fact, its the only one I know of.

 http://www.blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire

Of course, they are also pro-Putin, pro-Gaddafi and pro-Assad, so go figure.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust <http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com>
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/>
<http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track>

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Thomas <thomasfbar...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> For a different opinion, see:
>
> http://blackagendareport.com/black_millennials_reject_duopoly
>
> T
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: Clay Claiborne via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>
> >Sent: Sep 6, 2016 1:59 AM
> >To: Thomas F Barton <thomasfbar...@earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement
> >
> >  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> >#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> >#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> >*
> >
> >This is what I'm seriously trying to understand. Just as an example A.R.F.
> >you give this summation:
> >
> > the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
> >> different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the
> ballot. I
> >> think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
> >> were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the
> guy
> >> who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP
> President of
> >> failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in
> on
> >> it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
> >> tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his
> time
> >> in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
> >> they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist
> (if
> >> only!).
> >>
> >> So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
> >> endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
> >> mode as their party collapses.
> >
> >
> >And the national question doesn't enter the discussion at all. Its like
> the
> >above is just about how white people see the election. Differences around
> >McCain get mentioned, differences around the national question ignored. I
> >mean why is the GOP collapsing? Doesn't the national question loom large
> on
> >that question? How about the Brexit vote? the AfD victory? I see a growing
> >white nationalist influence in all of this, but generally speaking, people
> >on this list don't.   People of color don't spend 2 paragraphs on this
> >election without touch on the questions of white nationalist, Trump's
> >hateful message and dangerous threats. I'm trying to understand why it is
> >so different here. I know you are all tired of hearing from me about it
> but
> >I'm just trying to understand the disconnect.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Clay
> >
>
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Thomas via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

For a different opinion, see:

http://blackagendareport.com/black_millennials_reject_duopoly

T

-Original Message-
>From: Clay Claiborne via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>
>Sent: Sep 6, 2016 1:59 AM
>To: Thomas F Barton <thomasfbar...@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement
>
>  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
>#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
>#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
>*
>
>This is what I'm seriously trying to understand. Just as an example A.R.F.
>you give this summation:
>
> the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
>> different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the ballot. I
>> think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
>> were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the guy
>> who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP President of
>> failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in on
>> it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
>> tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his time
>> in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
>> they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist (if
>> only!).
>>
>> So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
>> endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
>> mode as their party collapses.
>
>
>And the national question doesn't enter the discussion at all. Its like the
>above is just about how white people see the election. Differences around
>McCain get mentioned, differences around the national question ignored. I
>mean why is the GOP collapsing? Doesn't the national question loom large on
>that question? How about the Brexit vote? the AfD victory? I see a growing
>white nationalist influence in all of this, but generally speaking, people
>on this list don't.   People of color don't spend 2 paragraphs on this
>election without touch on the questions of white nationalist, Trump's
>hateful message and dangerous threats. I'm trying to understand why it is
>so different here. I know you are all tired of hearing from me about it but
>I'm just trying to understand the disconnect.
>
>Regards,
>
>Clay
>

_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

This is what I'm seriously trying to understand. Just as an example A.R.F.
you give this summation:

 the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
> different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the ballot. I
> think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
> were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the guy
> who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP President of
> failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in on
> it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
> tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his time
> in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
> they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist (if
> only!).
>
> So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
> endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
> mode as their party collapses.


And the national question doesn't enter the discussion at all. Its like the
above is just about how white people see the election. Differences around
McCain get mentioned, differences around the national question ignored. I
mean why is the GOP collapsing? Doesn't the national question loom large on
that question? How about the Brexit vote? the AfD victory? I see a growing
white nationalist influence in all of this, but generally speaking, people
on this list don't.   People of color don't spend 2 paragraphs on this
election without touch on the questions of white nationalist, Trump's
hateful message and dangerous threats. I'm trying to understand why it is
so different here. I know you are all tired of hearing from me about it but
I'm just trying to understand the disconnect.

Regards,

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 8:05 PM, A.R. G via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> My guess is that the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
> different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the ballot. I
> think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
> were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the guy
> who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP President of
> failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in on
> it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
> tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his time
> in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
> they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist (if
> only!).
>
> So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
> endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
> mode as their party collapses.
>
> I really think we should spend less time discussing the same stuff over and
> over about Clinton and Trump and more time discussing what a long-term
> strategy after November looks like. It seems that most of you have resigned
> yourselves to voting Green. I am doing the same, but A) I don't live in a
> state where it matters and B) that is only a ritual I do every 4 years,
> it's not much of a plan. Perhaps we should discuss that instead.
>
> - Amith
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%
> 40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[A.R. G via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Yes, so let's talk about what that Clinton-less strategy looks like instead.


-- 
- Amith
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

We've heard promises about long-term strategies in 2008 and again in 2012.
They never happened.

No strategy that isn't ready, willing and able to take on newly elected
President Clinton and her administration will amount to a hill of beans and
won't be worth the electrons wasted to write it up.  Because the
alternative is a strategy predicated on defending the administration you
just helped put into power.  We saw that through two terms of Obama.

And, yes, in the narrow possibility that Trump wins, we will have to take
him on.  But any strategy predicated on making common cause with the likes
of Paul Wolfowitz, John Negroponte, etc. is nuts.  And, remember, that
these are not just people who've endorsed Clinton but people she has
publicly welcomed into her camp.

ML


On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 9:05 PM, A.R. G  wrote:

> My guess is that the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
> different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the ballot. I
> think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
> were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the guy
> who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP President of
> failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in on
> it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
> tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his time
> in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
> they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist (if
> only!).
>
> So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
> endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
> mode as their party collapses.
>
> I really think we should spend less time discussing the same stuff over
> and over about Clinton and Trump and more time discussing what a long-term
> strategy after November looks like. It seems that most of you have resigned
> yourselves to voting Green. I am doing the same, but A) I don't live in a
> state where it matters and B) that is only a ritual I do every 4 years,
> it's not much of a plan. Perhaps we should discuss that instead.
>
> - Amith
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[A.R. G via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

My guess is that the Republicans are in a similar place as us, but for
different reasons: they, too, do not see "their" candidate on the ballot. I
think it was obvious that most of the traditional Republican Party types
were backing Rubio and Cruz. Now they're being expected to endorse the guy
who insulted them and their families, who accused the last GOP President of
failing to stop 9/11 (while hanging out with people who think he was in on
it), who mocked one of the last GOP nominees for being captured and
tortured by communist guerrillas in Vietnam, and who spent much of his time
in the orbit of the Clintons. On the other hand, they have Clinton, who
they and their party machine have spent decades painting as a Communist (if
only!).

So I would not put too much stock into who the Republicans end up
endorsing, whether Clinton, Trump, Johnson or nobody. They are in panic
mode as their party collapses.

I really think we should spend less time discussing the same stuff over and
over about Clinton and Trump and more time discussing what a long-term
strategy after November looks like. It seems that most of you have resigned
yourselves to voting Green. I am doing the same, but A) I don't live in a
state where it matters and B) that is only a ritual I do every 4 years,
it's not much of a plan. Perhaps we should discuss that instead.

- Amith
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I get it, Clay.  As you say, you are agreeing with the Reagan and Bush
people whose support your candidate embraces.

The question is whether you get it.
On Sep 5, 2016 6:27 PM, "Clay Claiborne"  wrote:

> Former members of Republican administrations are "crossing over" precisely
> because they see Trump as an extreme white nationalist and not a
> Republican. Its the Green Party argument that he is just another Repub.
> like, paradoxically, many that are defecting. These Republicans probably
> would agree with me that Trump has hijacked the GOP.
>
> I'm complaining that you again failed to address my main points which are
> that Trump is the leader of a white nationalist movement and will bring
> the alt-right white nationalist gang to power in the WH and that if
> qualitatively different from Obama or Bush.
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:
>
>> So you're complaining because I didn't suggest compiling a list of former
>> members of a Democratic administration crossing over to support Trump to
>> mirror the suggestion that we keep a running list of former members of
>> Republican administrations crossing over to agree with you in supporting
>> Clinton--who has publicly embraced their support and not yours . . . .
>>
>> Said list follows . . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Former members of Republican administrations are "crossing over" precisely
because they see Trump as an extreme white nationalist and not a
Republican. Its the Green Party argument that he is just another Repub.
like, paradoxically, many that are defecting. These Republicans probably
would agree with me that Trump has hijacked the GOP.

I'm complaining that you again failed to address my main points which are
that Trump is the leader of a white nationalist movement and will bring
the alt-right white nationalist gang to power in the WH and that if
qualitatively different from Obama or Bush.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> So you're complaining because I didn't suggest compiling a list of former
> members of a Democratic administration crossing over to support Trump to
> mirror the suggestion that we keep a running list of former members of
> Republican administrations crossing over to agree with you in supporting
> Clinton--who has publicly embraced their support and not yours . . . .
>
> Said list follows . . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

So you're complaining because I didn't suggest compiling a list of former
members of a Democratic administration crossing over to support Trump to
mirror the suggestion that we keep a running list of former members of
Republican administrations crossing over to agree with you in supporting
Clinton--who has publicly embraced their support and not yours . . . .

Said list follows . . . .
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Mark,
No need to jump to insults.

When I said no plans to protest Trump, I was referring to your suggestion
that this list gather a list and circulate it to protest Clinton. I haven't
seen any proposals put forward to protest Trump on this list but perhaps I
missed them.

Perhaps, I also missed were Jill Stein targeted Trump as almost founder of
the birhter movement and a national leader of the white nationalist
movement, about his new campaign leadership and their connect of
alt-right,1488 and extreme racists elements. Also Trump's connects to white
nationalist militias.

Perhaps I need to be educated so please send me a link to the best Jill
Stein piece on these questions because from what I've seem she says almost
nothing about his white nationalism. This is typical of most Green Party
and "anri-imperialist" complaints about Trump, to be sure, there are plenty
but somehow they always miss the key difference between the Trump campaign
and the Clinton campaign - there different relationships with white
nationalisms, white nationalist organizations and leadership.

Here's an example from Chris Hedges on DN today:

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/5/chris_hedges_vs_robert_reich_on

CHRIS HEDGES: Well, reducing the election to personalities is kind of
> infantile at this point.

Is this his opinion of non-white people that overwhelmingly oppose Trump?

> The fact is, we live in a system that Sheldon Wolin calls inverted
> totalitarianism. It’s a system where corporate power has seized all of the
> levers of control.

Then there is nothing we can do - don't even try to organize a strike or
rebellion - he also blames the Libyans and Syrians for even trying.

> There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs or
> ExxonMobil or Raytheon.

That would seem to make even voting for the Green Party futile.

> We’ve lost our privacy. We’ve seen, under Obama, an assault against civil
> liberties that has outstripped what George W. Bush carried out.
>

No clue here that the 2 campaigns have very different relations to the kkk

>
> So, is Trump a repugnant personality? Yes. Although I would argue that in
> terms of megalomania and narcissism, Hillary Clinton is not far behind. But
> the point is, we’ve got to break away from—which is exactly the narrative
> they want us to focus on. We’ve got to break away from political
> personalities and understand and examine and critique the structures of
> power. And, in fact, the Democratic Party, especially beginning under Bill
> Clinton, has carried water for corporate entities as assiduously as the
> Republican Party. This is something that Ralph Nader understood long before
> the rest of us, and stepped out very courageously in 2000. And I think we
> will look back on that period and find Ralph to be an amazingly prophetic
> figure. Nobody understands corporate power better than Ralph. And I think
> now people have caught up with Ralph.
>
>
> The fact is, Clinton has a track record, and it’s one that has abandoned
> children. I mean, she and her husband destroyed welfare as we know it, and
> 70 percent of the original recipients were children. This debate over—I
> don’t like Trump, but Trump is not the phenomenon. Trump is responding to a
> phenomenon created by neoliberalism. And we may get rid of Trump, but we
> will get something even more vile, maybe Ted Cruz.
>

Do you see what I mean? Plenty of criticism of Trump. That's not my
complaint. My complaint is that this is typical of the Green
Party/anti-imperialist "complaints" about Trump - they generally share
three characteristics 1) They steer clear of the national question
[generally sticking to just economics-as if those were the only defining
questions of 2016 ]  2) They ignore Trump's history as a particularly mean
and racist billionaire class capitalist to claim Clinton has a track record
but The Donald doesn't. 3) Using the advantages 1) & 2) give to them,
manage to balance the scales so that Clinton looks like the greater of two
evils in any case.


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> Stein complains continually about Trump.  Are you deaf?  Dumb?  Blind?  Or
> just operating on the usual yankee-doodledy faith-based politics?
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Stein complains continually about Trump.  Are you deaf?  Dumb?  Blind?  Or
just operating on the usual yankee-doodledy faith-based politics?
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

No plans to protest Trump, just Clinton. Why does that not surprise me?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Mark Lause via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> I do hope someone's keeping track of all the Republican cabinet members,
> miscellaneous war criminals and Grand Dragons endorsing Clinton.  We should
> widely circulate the list a few days before the election.
>
> ML
>
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
> >   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> > *
> >
> > When leftists endorse the "lesser evil" imperialist party, they don't get
> > to pick and choose which policies they support and which they oppose. If
> I
> > found myself endorsing Kissinger's protege, I'd drop out of politics.
> >
> > http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/38955-
> > focus-hillary-clinton-courts-henry-kissingers-endorsement-
> > even-after-meeting-his-victims
> > _
> > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/
> > options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com
> >
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%
> 40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

That's a very real possibility.

We could even see a platform with both Clintons, both Bushes and Obama
carrying a big "Mission Accomplished" banner . . . .


On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Steven L. Robinson via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> I am betting that before the end of October we will see one or both of the
> Ex-Presidents Bush endorse Clinton, a move that will likely be trumpeted
> with great fanfare and most certainly little effect in number of votes. SR
>
> On 9/4/2016 1:49 PM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote:
>
>> *
>>
>> I do hope someone's keeping track of all the Republican cabinet members,
>> miscellaneous war criminals and Grand Dragons endorsing Clinton.  We
>> should
>> widely circulate the list a few days before the election.
>>
>> ML
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt
> ions/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Steven L. Robinson via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I am betting that before the end of October we will see one or both of 
the Ex-Presidents Bush endorse Clinton, a move that will likely be 
trumpeted with great fanfare and most certainly little effect in number 
of votes. SR


On 9/4/2016 1:49 PM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote:

*

I do hope someone's keeping track of all the Republican cabinet members,
miscellaneous war criminals and Grand Dragons endorsing Clinton.  We should
widely circulate the list a few days before the election.

ML





_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I do hope someone's keeping track of all the Republican cabinet members,
miscellaneous war criminals and Grand Dragons endorsing Clinton.  We should
widely circulate the list a few days before the election.

ML

On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> When leftists endorse the "lesser evil" imperialist party, they don't get
> to pick and choose which policies they support and which they oppose. If I
> found myself endorsing Kissinger's protege, I'd drop out of politics.
>
> http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/38955-
> focus-hillary-clinton-courts-henry-kissingers-endorsement-
> even-after-meeting-his-victims
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/
> options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] seeking Henry Kissinger's endorsement

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

When leftists endorse the "lesser evil" imperialist party, they don't get
to pick and choose which policies they support and which they oppose. If I
found myself endorsing Kissinger's protege, I'd drop out of politics.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/38955-focus-hillary-clinton-courts-henry-kissingers-endorsement-even-after-meeting-his-victims
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com