Artesian writes:
[...]
No, I don't consider the end of apartheid a joke-- never said any such
thing-- but the sort of Mandela-de Klerk deal does not bring democracy, or
secularism, or socialism.
Thanks for clarifying.
Does anyone think the Afrikaners made this deal out of the goodness of
Artesian writes:
I no more deny that apartheid was broken than I would deny that segregation
by race has been dismantled in the South.
My last word on the subject but as you know I say that often, usually
after I have already given assurances of my last word on the subject.
Dennis Brasky writes:
If the Israeli Jews are offered self determination after the coming
socialist revolution, what form will that take? Won't it be a Jewish state
in Palestine - where the Palestinians would want their state? But the Jews
already have such a state, so why do they need a
Someday I will produce a post without typos etc. I don't know when, but the
odds say sooner or later, I will.
- Original Message -
From: S. Artesian sartes...@earthlink.net
To: David Schanoes sartes...@earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] self
I would be wary of such a solution though Louis. France in 1940 is a good
example of how fast a terribly oppressive people can transformed into an
oppressed group in a flash. Demographically it's also a different game than
in Algeria and South Africa and I think it does matter--- in terms of how
Bhaskar Sunkara wrote:
I would be wary of such a solution though Louis. France in 1940 is a good
example of how fast a terribly oppressive people can transformed into an
oppressed group in a flash. Demographically it's also a different game than
in Algeria and South Africa and I think it
Artesian writes:
Dennis is quite write to point out that there is no such thing as
self-determination for the Afrikaners in South Africa, for the Israelis in
the Middle East, just as the French in Algeria were not entitled to, nor
struggling for self-determination.
Proyect l...@panix.com
To: Marv Gandall marvgand...@videotron.ca
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors
Marv Gandall wrote:
It's not possible to conceive of a socialist revolution in
Palestine/Israel
which would not involve the participation
i put Marv on moderation for a couple days until he gets clipping text
straight.
Les
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bhaskar.sunk...@gmail.com wrote:
One state-solution theorists admit that their triumph would lead to a mass
exodus of a large percentage of the current population of Israel.
I read lots of one-state literature and that's news to me.
Emotionally, I am for every single Russian immigrant from the
On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Bhaskar Sunkara
bhaskar.sunk...@gmail.comwrote:
The project to found Israel as a settler state was and still is ?a
crime?,
said comrade Conrad. But that crime has resulted in the coming into
being
of
an Israeli Jewish, or Hebrew, nation and a working
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Marv Gandall marvgand...@videotron.cawrote:
So you are both saying that, following the dissolution of the Zionist
state,
you would not support cultural rights for the Hebrew-speaking minority and
even a limited measure of political autonomy as an interim
10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors
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On Oct 18, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Dennis Brasky wrote:
Self determination means the oppressed nation BY AND FOR ITSELF
makes decisions concerning its status without feeling the need to
get approval...
And exactly how do 'Marxist Wilsonians think such a granfalloon as a
nation is supposed to
Artesian writes:
[...]
If, however, you're referring to the the type of deal struck by de Klerk,
Botha with Mandela, then preserving cultural identity of the minority is
a
non-issue at best, a joke at worst, as the economic and social power of
the
minority has been preserved.
in the deteriorating conditions for those living in the townships.
- Original Message -
From: Marv Gandall marvgand...@videotron.ca
To: David Schanoes sartes...@earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors
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