M-TH: Re: Oh My Darwin! (Back to May/December)

1999-11-30 Thread Charles Brown

Yoshie,

This is an interesting article 

 Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/30/99 04:00AM Like Fodor, Lewontin and 
Gould argue that the EPists have it wrong:
Language, consciousness, and most of our distinctively human mental
capacities are side effects of the fact that our brain grew big for other
reasons. Furthermore, they caution, these reasons cannot be reconstructed.
Our extraordinary human abilities are epiphenomena of "all those loose
connections with nothing to do," explains Lewontin. As an example of a
nonadaptive trait, he offers the uniquely human ability to use recursion in
language, that is, to make sentences of the form: "I say that Noam Chomsky
says, when people say..." Though chimps can be taught to compose simple
sentences of the form "I want" or "I see" on a computer, they cannot be
taught to use recursion.

Does Lewontin have a theory about the origin of this unique linguistic
ability of humans? "You could invent a story," he explains with distaste.
"You could say it was an advantage to early human beings in being able to
say, 'I saw Joe doing that,' but that's just yak!"

(

Charles: Isn't it true that biologists don't know the actual Darwinian mechanism for 
the origin of almost any traits of ANY life forms ( except for that experiment with 
moths in England; but somebody said even that experiment was flawed) ? 

Seems to me the best hypothesis for the adaptive advantage of language , but more 
completely all culture and symbolic conduct, is that it allows the experiences of dead 
generations of the species to be shared to some extent by the living generation. 
Culture's advantage is that it is a LaMarckian (i.e. super-Darwinian) mechanism. I 
mean an extrasomatic, non-genetic mechanism. Culture is a superexpansion of the social 
realm to include dead generations in the sociality of the living generation.

(


-clip-

Even if God were to descend on Cambridge and part the waters of the Charles
River at Lewontin's feet, it would still be unthinkable to imagine the
skeptical biologist embracing religion. Gould, on the other hand, has
recently been evincing a new sympathy for the realm of the unscientific. In
his most recent book, Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness
of Life (1999), he not only sets out terms for a peaceful coexistence with
the obdurate religious believers among us but seems to offer another
defense against the sociobiological threat. His thesis is that it makes
perfect sense to see science and religion as distinct and complementary
forms of human endeavor: Science addresses the "factual character of the
natural world"; religion is concerned with spiritual meaning and morality.

(((

Charles: The rational kernel I see in religion is in ancestor worship. It is an overt 
form of what I say above: messages from dead generations to the living generation in 
the form of complex symbolic and pnemonic systems. Contra Engels, who only focuses on 
the superstition and fear and awe of uncontrollable forces in ancient religion, 
ancestor worship is a LaMarckian, super-Darwinian adaptive mechanism (extrasomatic, 
non-genetic).  Of course, new discoveries are made superceding the ancient knowledge, 
and the tough thing is to know when "to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em". That is 
the eternal challenge of human culture.

(

This dualism stands in stark contrast to the views of Wilson, Dawkins, and
Pinker, who categorically deny the existence of a soul or spirit. Indeed,
from the outset, it was Wilson's goal to deny the existence of an
independent moral realm. In On Human Nature, he says, "Human behavior...is
the circuitous technique by which human genetic material has and will be
kept intact. Morality has no other demonstrable ultimate function."
Consilience (1998), Wilson's latest and most ambitious statement to date,
takes an even more radical position, arguing that "there is intrinsically
only one class of explanation." He goes on to make the bold assertion that
"all tangible phenomena, from the birth of stars to the workings of social
institutions, are based on material processes that are ultimately
reducible, however long and tortuous the sequences, to the laws of
physics."

((

Charles: A form of ultimate vulgar materialism. Arch reductionism. Anti-dialectics. No 
levels of organization of reality.

(

three cheers for Richard Lewontin,

Yoshie


CB


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Re: M-TH: Re:LOV, butterflies and babies

1999-11-30 Thread J.WALKER

Hello Simon,

When you write:
 that imperialism is (arguably) the current  international capitalist relationship
 does not mean that our definition of capitalism is somehow inadequate

What is the relationship between the two part of the sentance as 
they do not seem to logicall follow. Surely a definition of 
capitalism which does not take into account it curent international 
relationship is inadequate. While I may share the fear about those 
who seek to 'update' Marxism it is equally wrong to have the view 
that every part of his economic theory is unaltered by the continuous 
developments within capitalism. His own positions changed within his 
life-time and if you count Engels as a Marxist (which perhaps you 
don't) then clearly by the 1880s thing had changed a lot. Marx may 
have said much more if he had lived to write volume six of Captial 
but the task was left to others. And it continues constantly.
 I am saying that there is nothing magical about the universe giving
 agency to it, consciously or unconsciously.

No one is arguing that the universe chooses to be dialectical no more 
than gravity chooses to put things onto the floor.

 I am showing
 then that a dialectical WAY of seeing the world, thus acting on the world,
 and thus changing it over time, is supported by such a materialist
 position.

From this do you think that dialectics is confined to social 
relations or to nature. Or just WAY merely apply to an appearence of 
dialectics in nature. Do you disagree with Engels (and possibly 
Marx) or do you think that blind devotion to his theory is the 
problem?

Sorry have to go stop there but I will pick up on a few other things 
from that post if it is not too annoying!

Regards,
John
 


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M-TH: Seattle

1999-11-30 Thread Charles Brown

A forward.

CB

(



Hi everybody,

Solidarity!

They have given up on giving any type of conference today. We have
completely blocked the ability for the delegates to reach the Convention
Center.  The police are starting to gas  make arrests, but it's just a
manifestation of their frustration.

There has been no violence.  Talk to you all later.  Hope you are having a
good day.

Ian
(transcribed via cell phone...)




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