Dave writes!
What do you mean? DOn't you understand even the most elementary thing
about imperialism, that it is the main enemy, and when it attacks a
semi-colony we defend the semi-colony, even to the extent of
militarily blocking with the national bourgeoisie, maintaining the
armed independence of the working class. Why don't you read Trotsky
on China.
Bob
Yeah but we are talking about New Zealand which is hardly a semi colony.
Dave
As for WW2 your precious Cannon blocked with his bourgeoisie against
Hitler. See if you can deny that.
Bob
Oh that is why Cannon and half of the leadership wound up in prison!
Dave
And as for Chechnya. As you well know in the exchanges we had on the
character of Russia today, when you stupidly claimed that Russia
today was imperialist becuase it was before the Revolution, I stated
that despite Russia's semi-colonial character today, if it attacked
breakaway nationalist movements that were not backed by imperialism,
then I would be against Russia. Just as I am against Indonesia in E
Timor, but would subordinate this to the defence of Indonesia if
attacked by imperialism.
Bob
I certainly did not say Russia was imperialist. But I did say that Russia
has imperialist intentions. And you did not answer the question Dave on
Chetchenen. McDonald makes some very interesting arguments in general on
this stuff.And I tend to lean towards his argument but against his
conclusion to support Russia. Perhaps defeatism on both sides in this war
would be my position.
I notice that Straight Facts has a line of supporting self determination on
this stuff and I have not seen the ICL position on this.Below is Mcdonald's
comments on this stuff.
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Actually, Bob, I'll get a lot of heat for this, but bear with me. I'm with
Russia on this one. Why on earth do I say that?
Times change, and so with do strategies. The global ruling class has its
strategy nicely set out today, that new strategy (among many) is simple: in
any country and/or region that may pose a threat, back reactionary
"liberation movements" that can help balkanise (forgive the pun) the entire
plantet. While Yeltsin's Russia is nothing at all like the former USSR, the
Chechen rebels are much like the Afghani Mujahideen- cutthroat vile
anti-woman butchers, who recieve their blood money for a "holy war" from the
greater Imperial powers.
The German-led strategy in the destruction of what is/was left of socialist
Yugoslavia is to reduce the country into a whole series of weak useless
client states. We should recognise (and, to the Sparts credit, when the
bombs fell, they did) that it wasn't Kosovars vs Yugoslavia for the land of
Kosovo, it was Imperialism trying to wrest it away, vs Yugoslavia trying to
maintain it.
The same can be said of Chechnya and Dagestan. These "rebels" would not
have a single day of fighting to do if it weren't for the caches coming from
the Western powers. The contest is really between the US'huge military
machine, where they use legitimate grievances to spark an illegitimate
succession and those in the Russian ruling class/clique who want to "prove"
that they can keep the country together. There is a bigger long term impact
coming here. In the event that the next Russian revolution comes along, what
will the power base for the new baby be? the outskirts of Moscow?
The Imperialist strategy is also working currently in DR Congo. Kabila may
only be a shade of what he was in his days in the bush with Che Guevara, but
that doesn't stop him from being on the bad list. All he did so far was try
to rest some extra concessions from the Imperialists before they carted off
DR Congo diamonds. However, that was enough to get the entire continent into
a war against him.
What we will soon see in this case, is the re-drawing of the DRCongos map
along "ethnic" or "ancient tribal" lines. In fact, we will just be
witnessing the fracturing of the large and possible-to-resist state into
smaller, weaker and dependant states.
When we are going to wake up to this, and realise that the old lines we
raised of "self determination for____" just don't cut it anymore, I'm not
sure.
Here's hoping the poor Chechen peoples are able to get through their
horrible situation quickly, it is ironic that this time around we see
refugees fleeing en masse and no one says they are fleeing anything other
than bombs.
Hmmmm....
Macdonald
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