There is no way to save GM as it is currently constituted.
In a bankruptcy, but labor and capital will be sacrificed, and the irony
is that capital also been coming from labor these days. So GM workers
will be shafted both coming and going, losing their jobs and their
pension in one big move.
CB: Modern Industrial(ization) revolutionarily combines labourers, removing
them
from their isolation in competition.
. . . . the recent ( last thirty years) scattering of the industrial
points of production of the U.S. is an anti-revolutionary process in terms
of what it does to the U.S.
Henry C.K. Lui writes:
The October Revolution was an unexpected anomaly because geopolitical
circumstances caused it to take place in a pre-industrial country the
majority population of which was peasants rather than factory workers,
and the main socio-economic conflict was between landlord
CB: Revolutionary in the sense of one of the revolutions in the
instruments of production that the bourgeoisie have been constantly making
ever since they were bourgeoisie. Not revolutionary in the sense of a
social revolution, because the steam engine did not result in the overthrow
of
CB: Revolutionary in the sense of one of the revolutions in the
instruments of production that the bourgeoisie have been constantly making
ever since they were bourgeoisie. Not revolutionary in the sense of a
social revolution, because the steam engine did not result in the overthrow
of
So, it is not true that every revolution in science and technology results
in social revolution.
So, it is not certain that the cybertech rev in communication and
transportation will result in social revolution. It is an open question. The
initial result has been to reverse the geographical
Something else must happen in history to dig the grave of an existing social
system and that something else is all ways bound up in the material
development of the instruments of production. I refuse to glorify the so-called
workers.
Their struggle have driven the bourgeois mode of production
CB: Your whole discussion here goes off wrong because you seem to think that
communications and transportation are not part of production. But they are.
The specific way in which the cyberrev impacts production is in the
communication and transportation aspects of production, especially.
What are
CB: The solution is the same as ever. Workers of all countries and races,
unite!
WL: There is no such thing as race. This is a totally bourgeois conception of
reality.
Sometimes it fell as if this discussion is with someone from the 1930s. Are
the African American people a race of different
CB: The wage-laborer or proletarian, by definition owns no property but her
labor power. All proletarians are propertyless.
Anyway , new class is fine to develop as an idea, but not it's not honest
to insist that Engels and Marx didn't say that the whole of the proletariat,
not just a sector of
A chairde,
After reading Nelson Peery's work on the Negro National Colonial
Question, I thought it would be good to read where he is at now and got
a hold of The Future is Up to Us written in 2002. I have to say it is a
very interesting book and presents arguments in a manner which at times
CB: Things don't make social revolution. That's use-value commodity
fetish revolutionism. People make social revolution.
WL: That's use-value commodity fetish revolutionism. (?) Explain.
Everything in human society presupposes the existence of human being as the
first starting point of the
CB: Things don't make social revolution. That's use-value commodity
fetish revolutionism. People make social revolution.
WL: That's use-value commodity fetish revolutionism. (?) Explain.
Everything in human society presupposes the existence of human being as the
first starting point of the
Engels wrote:
This contradiction contains the germ of the whole of the social antagonisms
of today. The point is clear: the widening and deepening of capitalist
relations over time has turned capitalism into a near universal system, reduced
nearly everything that humans desire to the cash
The Causes and Effects of the Sino-Soviet Split
by
Henry C.K. Liu
The October Revolution of 1917 was launched on the slogan: ‘All Power to
the Soviets’ through which the minority Bolsheviks won leadership in the
Soviets, workers councils that constituted the power behind the new
socialist
WL: A second observation is that the working class, because of its position
in the system of social production, is the gravedigger of capitalism. This is
impossible because the two basic classes of a social system cannot - are not
free, to overthrow the system of which they constitute. It is
WORKERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE!
FOR BOLSHEVISM INSIDE THE COMMUNIST AND WORKERS' MOVEMENT
No.9 November 2003
CRIME OF THE CENTURY
MARKING THE 10TH YEAR SINCE THE SHOOTING OF RUSSIA'S SUPREME SOVIET
The events going back 10 years ago to September-October 1993 will always
remain in the
What is the difference between 'the national question' and the 'racial'
problem in America?
I apologise genuinely if I have not framed these matters in a comprehensible
manner.
C
Reply
Comrade,
The framing of the national question and then the national colonial question
from the
WL: Where does Engels ground or implies that the materialist conception of
history grounds analysis of human society in its productive relations, because
productive relations
include our necessary activities . . .
^
CB: Right here in the first sentence of what you quoted of him
The
Nelson Peery Entering an Epoch of Social Revolution
Including additional essays Dialectics of the Leap and the Destruction of
Capitalism and... Polarization in U.S. -- Basis for a Workers Party
http://www.scienceofsociety.org/texts/epoch/epoch.complete.html
The above article from 1993 - 13
I got a copy of Negro National Colonial Question. I have read it and it is
quite interesting. I found his description of the 'anglo-american' minority in
the Negro nation to be quite relevant to the situation here in the British
occupied North of Ireland.
I'm wondering if the concept of the
This rebellion of the productive forces, as they grow more and more
powerful, against their quality as capital, this stronger and stronger
command that their social character shall be recognized, forces the capital
class itself to treat them more and more as social productive forces, so far
as
You guys obviously have a history I know nothing of, but I'm hoping this
is
the last I'll see of this form of discourse, emoticon notwithstanding.
WL: Of course we do or could not argue as such.
CB: Black Bottom up in this mother fucking emoticonical area.
Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Summary
^
CB: The very fact that Engels et al use two different terms - historical
materialism and materialist dialectics - means they are talking about two
different levels of organization.
WL: Really. Let me get this right before I am accused of distorting your
utterances and being contrary.
1).
Here is the fun part. Marx is quoted as stating:
Merely quantitative differences, beyond a certain point, pass into
qualitative changes. --Karl Marx, Capital, Vol. 1.
This is translated as number two of the three laws of dialectics.
The three laws of dialectics are:
*The law of the
I wrote, for about the twentieth time over the past four years, in response
to by dear friend and Comrade CB:
It is not accurate to say that quantity or quantitative change turns into
qualitative change and quality turns into quantity because this expresses only
a perceptual understanding of
CB: This is from the book _The Souls of Black Folk_. How many souls do
Black folk have ? Two, one Black and one white.
JF: I was going to bring up DuBois because Dr. King's thesis concerning the
dual character of African-Americans was obviously drawn from DuBois's work,
with which King was
WL: OK Charles but this is your individual understanding of the meaning of
level.
CB; No , it is not my individual understanding of level;it is the English
meaning of the word level. I thought you were just being contrary for the
sake of being contrary, as you often seem to be, when you
These black neocon intellectuals--most of whom are dumb shits, no, all of
them--are taking big money to scapegoat the black poor, and they're not
taking a holiday from it.
Comment
Much of this cramp from the black neo-con, I cannot stomach. Since WW II
black America - if you will, has gone
CB; Mary, Mary quite contrary !Well, no it is not entirely ridiculous, if we
think that there is some form of cultural and other customary differences
between Black and white Americans. It is not ridiculous at all, when we
consider Dubois' milieu and his audience, especially Black Folk, soul
CB; Naw, I basically quote Marx, Engels and Lenin as much or more as
anybody. Your statement is pretty much false here.
WL: We always arrive at this point Charles because you are from a different
political group. You are no more than a continuation of the Negro Bourgeoisie
and the black
The Specter of Communism Is Still Haunting Europe
By Herwig Lerouge
Fifteen years after being declared dead and buried, the specter of communism
is again haunting the minds of some of Europe's political leaders.
On February 24, 2005, the European Ministers of Justice were to discuss a
common
Strategy and Tactics of the RCWP
V.N. Chechensev
The recognition of the realization of the symptoms of a revolutionary
situation is something that vividly distinguishes revolutionary
communists from opportunists. An opportunist, as a rule, does not get
ready for a revolution. He might be
CB: These are the levels of organization of reality. Materialist dialectics
encompasses all the levels of organization of reality, actually. Historical
materialism is the most important level for us humans , because it brings to
bear all the rest of the levels with a plan for action at our
The old Hegelian synthesis still offers the best answer to many of life's
dilemmas. The American Negro is neither totally African nor totally western.
He is Afro-American, a true hybrid, a combination of two cultures.
Who are we? We are the descendants of slaves. We are the offspring of
...Lenin further developed Marx's teaching on classes and defined them as
'large groups of people differing from each other by the place they occupy
in a historically determined system of social production, by their
relation...to the means of production, by their role in the social
organization
(I snuck this in under the title Stalin hoping that Ralph would not see it
and blow a piston rod. You know how upset he gets about everything and
nothing) :-)
Class is not a physical relation, for example. If that makes me not a
materialist in your book, I'm not a materialist, so what?
CB; When an idea grips masses, it becomes a material ( physical) force.
Class is defined by relationship ( ownership or lack thereof) to the means
of production, which are physical or material.
However, it is true that there are two levels of Marxist materialism , thus
we need historical
CB: Yes, of course, the SU had the hammer and the sickle, with the sickle
representing the agrarian working masses. In the U.S., going back to the
historical era in question, the agrarian masses were the slave workers, as
you correct me, and the petty farmer masses. I suppose these could
CB; Does Stalin himself use terms like ascendency of the industrial
system, Fordism, transition from agrarian ecnonomic..etc., or are these
terms derived from concepts and terms Stalin used ?
WL:
Here is how Stalin speaks - presents things:
During this period, the U.S.S.R. has become
It is a fact that the socialist system of economy in the sphere of industry
now constitutes 99 per cent of the total; and in agriculture, according to the
area sown to grain crops, it constitutes 84.5 per cent of the total, whereas
individual peasant economy accounts for only 15.5 per cent.
Ok. I'm just thinking that Stalin is speaking concretely about the SU. The
US had gone through significant industrialization before Russia/SU. Also,
the Russian agrarian society was feudal and the US agrarian society was
petit bourgeois/small farmer with petty plots. Doesn't the latter make a
of course, is no small item. In the so-called consuming zone there are about
5 million hectares of virgin soil, covered with scrub. It is well known that
the climate in this zone is not bad; precipitation is ample, and droughts
unknown. If this land were cleared of scrub and a number of
Stalinism has been described as being synonymous with totalitarianism, or a
tyrannical regime. The term has been used to describe regimes that fight
political dissent through violence, imprisonment, and killings.
The term Stalinism is sometimes used to denote a brand of communist
theory,
Was Stalinism the logical conclusion of Leninism?
Historians are divided over that question. The continuity theorists believe
that Stalinism was the logical conclusion of Leninism and that both of them
have more similarities than differences. Whereas the discontinuity theorists
claim that
The socialist camp divides
The Sino-Soviet and Soviet-Albanian conflicts in the 1960s and 1970s
by A Baryshev
A Baryshev is Secretary of the Central Committee Communist Party of the
Soviet Union headed by Oleg S Shenin. The CPSU is one of the many communist
parties
active in Russia and
Brother Ralph states that my following statement is meaningless verbiage
and aks if I am a fucking moron?
I am of course familiar with Ralph's style of discourse, but need to reprint
what I stated. I wrote:
Perhaps no individual in American history so well captures the time of a
great
I remember this jackass Grover Furr well. You must be a first-class
imbecile to defecate this excrement into this discussion list.
Reply
WL: Actually, my approach to the question of the bureaucracy is fairly
advanced. Which is of course why you have nothing to say. Really.
Hey . . . I have
CB; What I want to say is how the fuck does Ralph think he can get away with
calling people morons or claiming they have damaged minds without getting
blasted into next week. The threads on this list for several months have been
one
big refutation of his claims that Engels, Marxism-Leninism,
My problem lies in the demarcation of 'marxism' and the body of accumulated
knowledge and methodology, and especially the institutionalization of
'marxism' that effects its teaching and transmission and thus its relation to
the
totality of human knowledge.
Now you can quote Engels all you
Excellent!
Comrade Stalin's battle until death is always presented by the degenerate
bourgeoisie and their left front men outside every elementary concept implied
in
our materialist approach to history. For instance, if one is discussing the
domination of the bureaucracy and not simply the
.aol.com/entertainment/article.adp?id=20051210162409990003
Richard Pryor is dead.
Perhaps no individual in American history so well captures the time of a
great transformation in American society. Perhaps, more than any other
individual
in our history, Pryor having lived, proves that
Angela DAVIS: Actually we've had a black bourgeoisie or the makings of a
black bourgeoisie for many more decades if we look at one of our great
leaders, W.E.B. Du Bois, he was associated with a very minuscule black
bourgeoisie in the 19th century so this is not something that is
substantively
V: The prime pre-conditions for developments of tradition and culture are in
the development of human interaction with nature (the forces of production),
but these are subject to changes initiated by developments in social
relations (of which class is only one of a diversity of significant
CB: Importantly, the dialectic of history is that changes in the mode of
human interaction with nature determine changes in history, that is, the
whole of a people's tradition. The developments of tradition and culture
initiate in the dialectic of economic classes.
WL: The developments
CB: In the long run, the running away of manufacturing shops in the last 40
years may become a stuning an blunting with respect to the benefit of U.S.
workers such that they do something working class conscious. In that respect,
we
might see fulfillment of the unchaining of the productive
CB: The antagonism between the social nature of production and the private
nature of appropriation or property is what you are trying to get at. Technical
production as it develops makes itself more and more social. Marx assumes that
the overall division or socialisation of labor increases ;
J.H. Greetings!
read your handling of scientific communist concepts and thought about how you
will reconciled them with today's division of both the working class movement
and the communist movement in order to solve those contradictions you are
talking about.
WL: Today's division of ...
CB: What you quote below doesn't have the word antagonism in it that I
find.
WL: That is because the antagonism is explained in detail rather than
screaming from the roof top antagonism.
CB: But the activity of Communists is not with respect to development
of the productive forces, but to
WL: The antagonism being lived out during the time of Marx was between the
evolution and rise of the industrial system and its bourgeois mode of
production
versus the landed property relations and its political superstructure called
feudalism.
^^^ CB: But this is not the way in which Marx
CB: Commodithy production does not arise, as you say, on the basis of a
certain stage in the development of the productive forces.
WL: Really.
This is what I wrote and you quote:
bourgeois property does not arise on the basis of private property but
rather on the basis of a certain stage in
CB: But this is not the way in which Marx and Engels use antagonism to
describe the antagonism being lived out during the time of Marx and Engels.
They use antagonism to refer to the irreconcilable conflict or
contradiction between antagonistic classes, not, as you say, between the
evolution and
CB: Yes, you have stated this many times. Marx and Aptheker discuss that the
South dominated the U.S. ( and colonies before) before the Civil War. So, on
that part I don't have much of a problem. I don't know if I would use the
formulation , America was a Southern country . The slavocracy was
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property
generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois
private
property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing
and appropriating products that is based on _class
CB: Yea, LA pretty much looks like revolt, not revolution.
What is this a Stalinist theory of permanent revolution?
**
WL: I of course have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
^^^
CB: Liar
**
WL:
Ving
Question: What do you mean by Stalinists?
^^^
CB: Same thing you mean.
***
WL: I will return to this question of the Stalin polarity within the American
Communist movement and why it was compelled to delineate itself on the basis
of the National Factor and the movement of the African
--
FI-press-l Fourth International Press List
--
This article will be posted on the IVP site.internationalviewpoint.org
FRANCE
It is easy enough to see that wreaking havoc in their own neighbourhoods
causes damage to their neighbours and families. This can and is being exploited
by the government to divide their communities between generations and between
French and immigrants. But when the despair of those to whom
Here is the stirring of the new proletariat following the same social logic
as the 1992 Los Angeles rebellion. Sorry if this does not look like the
workers revolts.
^^
CB: Yea, LA pretty much looks like revolt, not revolution.
What is this a Stalinist theory of permanent revolution?
This says Toffler talks about a super-industrial society.
CB
^^
WL: Have you read the books? I have - many times, back when they were first
published. Here is the curve of Tofflers writings, which provide an outline and
back drop: 1970 - Future Shock - read; 1980 - The Third Wave - read,
This article was rejected by Asia Times without explanation.
Superpower Vulnerability
By
Henry C.K. Liu
That the US is now the world’s sole remaining superpower is above
challenged. This unchallenged status has affected US approach to
formulating foreign and domestic policies in the
CB: Repeat: THE COMPUTER REV IS NOT BEING DEVELOPED IN A WAY THAT COMES INTO
CONFLICT WITH THE EXISTING BOURGEOIS CONTROL IN RELATIONS OF PRODUCTION. IT IS
BEING DEVELOPED IN A WAY THAT IS IN HARMONY WITH AND ENHANCES BOURGEOIS
CONTROL IN RELATIONS OF PRODUCTION IN THE USA.
WL: In America -
CB: The computer development of the material productive forces has _not_ yet
come into conflict with the existing relations of production so as to cause
a revolution in the legal expression of the relations of production. It has
not changed the laws controlling relations of production, which is
The old society in which I was born and grew into manhood, is being destroyed
by an objective process and nothing can stop it. Old formula is useless. We
have inherited a treasure house of Marxist literature covering virtually every
conceivable subject. We have also been wounded in the past my
Thursday, November 03, 2005
The world is watching North Carolina
Today in Raleigh, North Carolina, state workers will be holding a historic
public hearing.
Jurists from around the world will hear testimony from employees about racist
incidents, forced overtime, and most critically a Jim
CB: Then WL proceeds to give _WL'S_ conception of CB's conception of the
relations of production, in which WL at will and at his leisure sticks in
all kinds of distortions and misrepresentations of what CB says, just as CB
told WL a few days ago. Let me go back and find where told him that and he
WL: Revolution comes about as a result of
the development of the means of production.
CB: However in the current computer rev in the means of production , a
revolution has not come about.
WL: That is your opinion. I defined what I mean by revolution as a process
that is taking place in
CB: Basically, two phrases with the words relations of production in them.
I'll take
social relations of production = organization of the shopfloor
relations of producttion in their totality = property relations
**
WL: Well Marx states in the quote you presented from the
CB: I have already dealt with the issue several times. The curent or
latest leaps in the development of the instruments of production have not
led to a rev over throwing bourgeois private property.
WL: Revolutions do not overthrow a civic power. That is called the act of
insurrection. What the
CB: I act no more like the self appointed designator of what is classical
Marxism than you do. You constantly assert authority as a to Marxism. There
is nothing wrong with me doing the same thing right back at you.
No I don't demand a thousand definitions to everything. This is a
WL: -clip-
I defined what I mean by revolution as a process
that is taking place in front of us.
WL: Revolutions do not overthrow a civic power. That is called the act of
insurrection. What the revolution in the means of production do is sublate
one
form and quality of the organization of
^^^
CB; That's because you are the self-appointed arbiter of understanding
dialectic and antagonism.
WL: Actually I stated my source. Please state yours and prove me a liar.
Where have you ever stated your source on antagonism in the history of the
International Communist movement. I began with
DG: I wish it was like this and we could pass to a higher civilisation than
capitalism without any reorganisation of production, distribution etc. But
transitions in history do not work like that. I do not deny the fact that the
more
a society is advanced the shorter may be the transition. I
The distinguishing feature of communism is not the abolition of property
generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois
private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of
producing and appropriating products that is based on _class antagonisms_
CB: I cited the passage from _The Manifesto of the Communist Party_. Therein
Marx and Engels discuss class antagonism in terms of the irreconcilable
conflicts of interest between the oppressing and exploiting class and the
oppressed and exploited class. I'll send it to you again tomorrow. But you
WL: OK . . . your feeling are hurt. Sorry. Lets make up and go to the motel.
^
CB: I'm agitating you. Agitation and propaganda.
I think you got me mixed up with somebody else.
WL: Not in the least bit. This is old hat and a set up.
Apparently I have the wrong relations of production. :-)
As the theory of the national question and the African American people, I've
heard your discussion of it a number of times, and your criticism of the
CPUSA positions. What you say is ... I don't know what to call it...It's
doesn't seem out and out wrong, but it's not particularly persuasive. I
but revolutions are not voluntary acts. there are objective and subjective
preconditions need to be ripe historically and to be met on the subjective
level.
DG
**
WL: Agreed. We Marxists have been fighting as a coherent group in society
every since we distinguished ourselves within the
CB: Yea, property is the laws ( literally , laws in the sense of rules backed
by the state power) that define the relationships between people with respect
to things. Property defines ownership. It defines the different
relationships to the means of production. Different relationships to the
CB: Good to hear from you , Ian .
I'm pretty much in agreement with the above.
I'd say relations of control over production and relations of obedience in
production. One side of the relation controls ( the capitalists) and the
other side obeys ( the working class). These are the class or
WL: I stated my source in Theories of Surplus Value for my use of
antagonism.
^^^
CB: Is that the same meaning as in _The Manifesto of the Communist Party_
Class antagonism, as in The Manifesto ? Antagonistic classes as oppressor
and oppressed classes ?
Answer: WL: Antagonism embody
WL:Classical Marxism? You mean classical American Marxism - as you
understand
it?
CB: I mean do you or do you not consider that your theory is the same as the
classical theory of Marx , Engels and Lenin , or do you consider that you
have a different theory than they ?
***
CB: I'm using relations of production as Marx uses it in the passage
below, which we had been discussing at length. Since he says the relations
of production and property relations are the same thing, I am saying
relations of production and property relations are the same thing.
WL: I am aware
Part 3
Earlier today, a memorial was held for Rosa Parks, who passed October 24,
2005. Rosa Parks was crowned the Mother of the Civil Rights Movement for her
individual role and arrest December 1, 1955, in Montgomery Alabama. Parks story
is pretty well known. The period between the end of
THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE NEW
LEFT
History is stepping into the arena of revolution and the
revolutionaries have never known such confusion. Led by the
Communist Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) much of
the so-called left is entering its final
CB: Problem is using the same terms as classical Marxism and giving them a
different meaning. Don't use relatioins of production or forces of
production, antagonism, etc., if you are giving them a different meaning
than the classical meaning, because it is just confusing. Make up new terms.
WL:
CB: I've heard it said that Rosa Parks was in the CPUSA at the time she
satdown.
WL: What is the point? Rosa Parks as individual narrative of American history
exists on a continuum related to Plessy. The CPUSA's role in our history is
never disputed by me, nor am I a party hater. For valid
2
The presentation of the National and National Colonial Question within the
Stalin polarity of the American Communist Movement has evolved and is not
identical to the formulations forced on the CPUSA in 1928 and 1930.
A concise statement is necessary to clarify our specific body politic.
a. History progresses not as a result of conflicts (contradictions) of
ideas, but by class conflict: free man and slave, patrician and plebeian,
lord and serf, guild master and journeyman, bourgeoisie and proletariat
(870).
WL: Actually, history progressive as the result of the development
CB: Which is it ? Very well put or you beg to differ ?
WL: What you stated very clearer clarify the difference. I differ with your
explanation.
___
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