Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography

[yves coleman]

Dear Ralph, you can write to Savas ( e...@ath.forthnet.gr ) and arlene
clemesha ( aec...@hotmail.com ) to know if the first has an English version
of his article and the second an English version of her book, or an article
in English related to your research.
I have never met them but they know me because I have translated articles
from them for the journal Ni patrie ni frontières. So you can quote my
name...
The Jewish Question has been recently republished with articles and prefaces
notably for the Trotskyist philosopher and 4th international leader Daniel
Bensaid but they are in French, as far as I know.
Enzo Traverso has extensively written on the Jewish question and I see that
some of his books are translated in English but I cant remember if he has
explicitly written about the Jewish Question of Marx. I'll check
Will look if I find any interesting things in French about your subject.
Yours
Yves

Le 17/11/09 11:53, « Ralph Dumain »  a
écrit :

> 
> Thanks. I got some main ideas out of a cursory
> scan of this article, but I'm confused at other
> points. Also, I didn't follow the historical
> exposition too closely. If I could read this is a
> bone fide English translation I'd do better. I'll
> just note the points that leapt out at me.
> 
> 1. The author counterposes pseudo-materialist
> interpretations to idealist-culturalist
> conceptions, suggesting that both must be
> transcended. On the face of it I agree. I am
> uncertain about what his final view is, though.
> 
> 2. He singles out Abram Leon as having the most
> sophisticated historical explanation, dissenting
> however from the notion of a people-class.
> 
> 3. The quotation from Rosa Luxemburg reveals an
> underdeveloped aspect of Marxism, not only on the
> Jewish question, but on national questions
> generally. Without unpacking Luxemburg's meaning, it seems incredibly obtuse.
> 
> 4. The author correctly points out that Marx's
> article on the Jewish Question is not entirely
> Marxist but marks a turning point in the break from Hegelianism.
> 
> Furthermore, he claims: "Après Marx, les
> marxistes, à quelques exceptions près (dont
> Trotsky durant les années 30), n'ont pas analysé
> de façon exhaustive et profonde cette base
> séculière réelle."  [After Marx, the Marxists,
> with few exceptions (including Trotsky during the
> 30s) have not exhaustively analyzed this deep and genuine secular basis.]
> 
> And of course he goes on to elaborate on this
> secular basis. But I want to point out something
> about Marx's essay. It is purely schematic in its
> contrast and positing of the relationship between
> the Sabbath and secular Jew, because in
> actuality, aside from not taking the trouble to
> describe the secular Jew in other than
> generalized stereotypical terms, Marx simply
> states that the Sabbath Jew is an illusory
> self-image of the Jew, contrasted with the real
> Jew, but without actually relating the material
> basis of Jewish existence to the form of
> consciousness known as Judaism, so as such fails
> to account at all for this religious illusion in
> the past or in the present, and most importantly
> its persistence from one epoch to a radically different ones.
> 
> 5. The author does at some point relate the Old
> Testament as a form of consciousness to the
> material existence of the Jews in antiquity, and
> later, I think, but I do not understand this exposition.
> 
> 
> At 04:08 PM 11/16/2009, yves coleman wrote:
>> http://www.mondialisme.org/spip.php?article1315
>> 
>> Here you will find many texts about the socalled Jewish question but in
>> French, translated from English, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian.
>> Specifically about your subject maybe you will find of interest the text of
>> Savas Michael-Matsas a Greek marxist (trotskyist) which has an original
>> point of view, even if I strongly disagree with his  political views on
>> Israel today.
>> 
>> You also have a book of Arlene Clemesha (a Brazilian Marxist) but in
>> portuguese
> 
> 
> ___
> Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
> Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
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> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
> 





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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography

[Ralph Dumain]

Thanks. I got some main ideas out of a cursory 
scan of this article, but I'm confused at other 
points. Also, I didn't follow the historical 
exposition too closely. If I could read this is a 
bone fide English translation I'd do better. I'll 
just note the points that leapt out at me.

1. The author counterposes pseudo-materialist 
interpretations to idealist-culturalist 
conceptions, suggesting that both must be 
transcended. On the face of it I agree. I am 
uncertain about what his final view is, though.

2. He singles out Abram Leon as having the most 
sophisticated historical explanation, dissenting 
however from the notion of a people-class.

3. The quotation from Rosa Luxemburg reveals an 
underdeveloped aspect of Marxism, not only on the 
Jewish question, but on national questions 
generally. Without unpacking Luxemburg's meaning, it seems incredibly obtuse.

4. The author correctly points out that Marx's 
article on the Jewish Question is not entirely 
Marxist but marks a turning point in the break from Hegelianism.

Furthermore, he claims: "Après Marx, les 
marxistes, à quelques exceptions près (dont 
Trotsky durant les années 30), n'ont pas analysé 
de façon exhaustive et profonde cette base 
séculière réelle."  [After Marx, the Marxists, 
with few exceptions (including Trotsky during the 
30s) have not exhaustively analyzed this deep and genuine secular basis.]

And of course he goes on to elaborate on this 
secular basis. But I want to point out something 
about Marx's essay. It is purely schematic in its 
contrast and positing of the relationship between 
the Sabbath and secular Jew, because in 
actuality, aside from not taking the trouble to 
describe the secular Jew in other than 
generalized stereotypical terms, Marx simply 
states that the Sabbath Jew is an illusory 
self-image of the Jew, contrasted with the real 
Jew, but without actually relating the material 
basis of Jewish existence to the form of 
consciousness known as Judaism, so as such fails 
to account at all for this religious illusion in 
the past or in the present, and most importantly 
its persistence from one epoch to a radically different ones.

5. The author does at some point relate the Old 
Testament as a form of consciousness to the 
material existence of the Jews in antiquity, and 
later, I think, but I do not understand this exposition.


At 04:08 PM 11/16/2009, yves coleman wrote:
>http://www.mondialisme.org/spip.php?article1315
>
>Here you will find many texts about the socalled Jewish question but in
>French, translated from English, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian.
>Specifically about your subject maybe you will find of interest the text of
>Savas Michael-Matsas a Greek marxist (trotskyist) which has an original
>point of view, even if I strongly disagree with his  political views on
>Israel today.
>
>You also have a book of Arlene Clemesha (a Brazilian Marxist) but in
>portuguese


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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography

[yves coleman]

http://www.po.org.ar/edm/edm22/sobre.htm

Here is the article of Michael-Matsas in Spanish. I cant find it in English.


Le 16/11/09 18:37, « Ralph Dumain »  a
écrit :

> 
> I've added some further references to my bibliography in progress,
> and I'm too worn out to go looking for more material, but here's a good start:
> 
> Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography
> compiled by Ralph Dumain
> http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/jews-marxism.html
> 
> There are some idiosyncratic inclusions, but there are a variety of
> angles presented here so as to get a good view of the issues and the
> various applications of these concepts.
> 
> As I've mentioned, with but a few exceptions I've deflected attention
> from Marx's "On the Jewish Question", which is a whole topic by
> itself regarding in-depth investigation.
> 
> I could not find any noteworthy work by Engels on this subject. Most
> of his remarks consist of reportage of specific events and situations
> or very specific comments. Of more general interest, the only thing I
> could find was a commentary about the politics of the anti-Semitic peasantry.
> 
> I have never been able to find a bibliographic reference for the
> oft-quoted but never-sourced remark by August Bebel: "Anti-semitism
> is the socialism of fools."  It doesn't matter all that much, but
> maybe someday . . . My bibliography aims at an analytical,
> theoretical perspective, and is not so much concerned about the
> specifics of the problem except insofar as the issue is tied into
> larger struggles over the national question, as per the Bolsheviks
> vs. the Jewish Labor Bund, which features prominently.
> 
> Similarly, Zionism plays an ancillary role here, though it is an
> integral historical component.
> 
> My explanatory note at the end states my principles of composition.
> 
> My initial motivation for doing this comes from research into the
> late 19th-century Eastern European Jewish intelligentsia, without
> concern for contemporary controversies. However, sad to say, I find
> this excursion into the past all too relevant to the political
> degeneracy of the present historical moment. The Internet is a
> magnificent tool for disseminating poison, and detecting its presence
> globally. I find that when I have absolutely no intention of getting
> involved in debates over the Middle East, and even when I'm
> researching topics having no direct connection with either the past
> or the present politics of the region or anywhere, I'm bumping
> constantly into the most vile bigotry as well as the more subtle
> kind. Such are the fruits not only of the resurgence of the right and
> neo-nazism, but of the poison tree of Stalinism, ultraleftism,
> leftist thirdworldism, and third world nationalism, finally dumbed
> down to the retarded trinity of vulgar anti-imperialism,
> anti-Americanism, and anti-Zionism, which has been labeled the
> "anti-globalism of fools." (Excuse all the mixed metaphors, but I'm
> in a hurry.)
> 
> In this regard, see:
> 
> Postone, Moishe. 
> " >History 
> and Helplessness: Mass Mobilization and Contemporary Forms of
> Anticapitalism," Engage, Issue 5, September 2007.
> 
> I am unfamiliar with the political situation in the UK, but I find
> the group Engage of interest:
> 
> http://engageonline.wordpress.com/
> 
> I actually am more interested in pursuing my original research
> project, but given the number of assholes I encounter each day, I
> find myself deflected from my original mission.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> "Scholars of Wisdom have no rest in this world or in the world to
> come."  -- Talmud
> ___
> Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
> Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
> To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
> 





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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography

[yves coleman]

http://www.mondialisme.org/spip.php?article1315

Here you will find many texts about the socalled Jewish question but in
French, translated from English, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian.
Specifically about your subject maybe you will find of interest the text of
Savas Michael-Matsas a Greek marxist (trotskyist) which has an original
point of view, even if I strongly disagree with his  political views on
Israel today.

You also have a book of Arlene Clemesha (a Brazilian Marxist) but in
portuguese




Le 16/11/09 18:37, « Ralph Dumain »  a
écrit :

> 
> I've added some further references to my bibliography in progress,
> and I'm too worn out to go looking for more material, but here's a good start:
> 
> Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography
> compiled by Ralph Dumain
> http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/jews-marxism.html
> 
> There are some idiosyncratic inclusions, but there are a variety of
> angles presented here so as to get a good view of the issues and the
> various applications of these concepts.
> 
> As I've mentioned, with but a few exceptions I've deflected attention
> from Marx's "On the Jewish Question", which is a whole topic by
> itself regarding in-depth investigation.
> 
> I could not find any noteworthy work by Engels on this subject. Most
> of his remarks consist of reportage of specific events and situations
> or very specific comments. Of more general interest, the only thing I
> could find was a commentary about the politics of the anti-Semitic peasantry.
> 
> I have never been able to find a bibliographic reference for the
> oft-quoted but never-sourced remark by August Bebel: "Anti-semitism
> is the socialism of fools."  It doesn't matter all that much, but
> maybe someday . . . My bibliography aims at an analytical,
> theoretical perspective, and is not so much concerned about the
> specifics of the problem except insofar as the issue is tied into
> larger struggles over the national question, as per the Bolsheviks
> vs. the Jewish Labor Bund, which features prominently.
> 
> Similarly, Zionism plays an ancillary role here, though it is an
> integral historical component.
> 
> My explanatory note at the end states my principles of composition.
> 
> My initial motivation for doing this comes from research into the
> late 19th-century Eastern European Jewish intelligentsia, without
> concern for contemporary controversies. However, sad to say, I find
> this excursion into the past all too relevant to the political
> degeneracy of the present historical moment. The Internet is a
> magnificent tool for disseminating poison, and detecting its presence
> globally. I find that when I have absolutely no intention of getting
> involved in debates over the Middle East, and even when I'm
> researching topics having no direct connection with either the past
> or the present politics of the region or anywhere, I'm bumping
> constantly into the most vile bigotry as well as the more subtle
> kind. Such are the fruits not only of the resurgence of the right and
> neo-nazism, but of the poison tree of Stalinism, ultraleftism,
> leftist thirdworldism, and third world nationalism, finally dumbed
> down to the retarded trinity of vulgar anti-imperialism,
> anti-Americanism, and anti-Zionism, which has been labeled the
> "anti-globalism of fools." (Excuse all the mixed metaphors, but I'm
> in a hurry.)
> 
> In this regard, see:
> 
> Postone, Moishe. 
> " >History 
> and Helplessness: Mass Mobilization and Contemporary Forms of
> Anticapitalism," Engage, Issue 5, September 2007.
> 
> I am unfamiliar with the political situation in the UK, but I find
> the group Engage of interest:
> 
> http://engageonline.wordpress.com/
> 
> I actually am more interested in pursuing my original research
> project, but given the number of assholes I encounter each day, I
> find myself deflected from my original mission.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> "Scholars of Wisdom have no rest in this world or in the world to
> come."  -- Talmud
> ___
> Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
> Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
> To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
> 





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[Marxism-Thaxis] Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography

[Ralph Dumain]

I've added some further references to my bibliography in progress, 
and I'm too worn out to go looking for more material, but here's a good start:

Marxism & the Jewish Question: Selected Bibliography
compiled by Ralph Dumain
http://www.autodidactproject.org/bib/jews-marxism.html

There are some idiosyncratic inclusions, but there are a variety of 
angles presented here so as to get a good view of the issues and the 
various applications of these concepts.

As I've mentioned, with but a few exceptions I've deflected attention 
from Marx's "On the Jewish Question", which is a whole topic by 
itself regarding in-depth investigation.

I could not find any noteworthy work by Engels on this subject. Most 
of his remarks consist of reportage of specific events and situations 
or very specific comments. Of more general interest, the only thing I 
could find was a commentary about the politics of the anti-Semitic peasantry.

I have never been able to find a bibliographic reference for the 
oft-quoted but never-sourced remark by August Bebel: "Anti-semitism 
is the socialism of fools."  It doesn't matter all that much, but 
maybe someday . . . My bibliography aims at an analytical, 
theoretical perspective, and is not so much concerned about the 
specifics of the problem except insofar as the issue is tied into 
larger struggles over the national question, as per the Bolsheviks 
vs. the Jewish Labor Bund, which features prominently.

Similarly, Zionism plays an ancillary role here, though it is an 
integral historical component.

My explanatory note at the end states my principles of composition.

My initial motivation for doing this comes from research into the 
late 19th-century Eastern European Jewish intelligentsia, without 
concern for contemporary controversies. However, sad to say, I find 
this excursion into the past all too relevant to the political 
degeneracy of the present historical moment. The Internet is a 
magnificent tool for disseminating poison, and detecting its presence 
globally. I find that when I have absolutely no intention of getting 
involved in debates over the Middle East, and even when I'm 
researching topics having no direct connection with either the past 
or the present politics of the region or anywhere, I'm bumping 
constantly into the most vile bigotry as well as the more subtle 
kind. Such are the fruits not only of the resurgence of the right and 
neo-nazism, but of the poison tree of Stalinism, ultraleftism, 
leftist thirdworldism, and third world nationalism, finally dumbed 
down to the retarded trinity of vulgar anti-imperialism, 
anti-Americanism, and anti-Zionism, which has been labeled the 
"anti-globalism of fools." (Excuse all the mixed metaphors, but I'm 
in a hurry.)

In this regard, see:

Postone, Moishe. 
"History
 
and Helplessness: Mass Mobilization and Contemporary Forms of 
Anticapitalism," Engage, Issue 5, September 2007.

I am unfamiliar with the political situation in the UK, but I find 
the group Engage of interest:

http://engageonline.wordpress.com/

I actually am more interested in pursuing my original research 
project, but given the number of assholes I encounter each day, I 
find myself deflected from my original mission.



___

"Scholars of Wisdom have no rest in this world or in the world to 
come."  -- Talmud
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