Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Pierre Bourdieu and Erich Fromm

2010-06-02 Thread c b
On 6/1/10, Domhnall Ó Cobhthaigh dona...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I'm trying to expand my horizons. One person who's work I'm looking into is 
 Pierre Bourdieu.



 What are the key works from a marxist perspective? I'm also keen to find out 
 any marxist critiques on his work - although I have to say from the little I 
 have read it looks to be very much marxist but fully expanded to grasp both 
 moments of the subject-object dialectic.

^^^
CB:  Which moment of the subject-object dialectic does the not  fully
expanded Marxism not grasp ?

^



 Also, on Erich Fromm, I wonder if anyone has any critiques of his work 
 (aside, that is, from Marcuse). On that latter, what are the opinions on 
 Fromm's own critique of Marcuse - i.e. that he doesn't fully grasp 
 psychoanalysis and that his method is weak because it is not informed by 
 empirical data.



 Thanks for all responses.



 Yours,

 Domhnall

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[Marxism-Thaxis] Pierre Bourdieu and Erich Fromm

2010-06-02 Thread Domhnall Ó Cobhthaigh

Stephen, sorry I don't speak German very well at all, certainly not sufficient 
to read any of this material in German. But thanks anyway.

 

CB, I think you misinterpreted me - perhaps it's my own inadequate 
self-expression - I think Bourdieu's approach is fundamentally marxist - it 
does not negate marxism. On the other hand I think that he adds some additional 
thoughts coherent with marxism. He has the advantage of expressing himself very 
carefully and precisely.

 

Here's a good piece by him which covers a lot of ground:

 

http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/fr/bourdieu.htm

 

I think Fromm approached the same issue from a slightly different perspective 
using psychoanalytic methods. 

 

Again, I see Fromm took great care to maintain the decisive but not finally 
determinate role of the (productive) material base but I think it is valid to 
see how fundamentally human (animal) drives are repressed by dominant material 
(social) conditions can influence ideology through the subconscious.

 

In both cases, I was wondering if comrades here had come across arguments which 
might run counter to these. The issue at stake is the accusation of 'idealism' 
a la Lenin or from Marcuse. In regard to the latter, I think I would tend to 
agree with Fromm who reversed the accusation to point to Marcuse's philosophy 
being based on a disconnect with psychoanalytic research (and the dogmaticism 
of Freudian concepts). 

 

In regard to Lenin's assault on idealism, that's another question - perhaps 
comrades would be able to give their opinions on it? There would appear to be 
some consensus that it was misplaced although Timpanaro appears to stand over 
the bulk of his remarks pointing to their context as opposed to their expressed 
content. I do not know enough on this to really have a set opinion so would 
value any thoughts.

 

Yours,

Domhnall
  
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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Pierre Bourdieu and Erich Fromm

2010-06-02 Thread Ralph Dumain
Here are some Fromm links:

Socialist Humanism: An International Symposium edited by Erich Fromm
http://autodidactproject.org/other/socialist-humanism.html

Internationale Erich-Fromm-Gesellschaft e.V. (English version)
http://www.erich-fromm.de/e/index.htm

Origin Myths in the Social Sciences: Fromm, the Frankfurt School and the 
Emergence of Critical Theory by Neil McLaughlin
http://www.ualberta.ca/%7Ecjscopy/articles/mclaughlin.html

On the 100th anniversary of his birth: Erich Fromm's Marxist dimension 
by Kevin Anderson
http://www.newsandletters.org/Issues/2000/Aug-Sept/8.00_essay.htm

Note esp. the essay by Neil McLaughlin, which deals with the disputes 
between Fromm and the others.


On 06/02/2010 05:46 PM, Ralph Dumain wrote:
 Lenin is a separate question from the Fromm vs Marcuse controversy. I
 will have to make another thorough study of Lenin's MAEC one day. My
 take on it is that Lenin's critique of positivism's phenomenalism is
 basically sound. Whether he missed something important about positivism
 I won't venture to say at this point. Lenin's critique of Bogdanov's
 theory of perception and Lenin's general theory of reflection have come
 in for criticism; these seem to be his weakest points. It is important
 to understand that Lenin's intervention into the philosophy of science
 (antural sciences0 needs to be distinguished from his or others' views
 of historical materialism;  pace Lenin, these are not all of a piece.

 It seems that Horkheimer, Marcuse, and Adorno treated Fromm quite badly.
 In his turn, he disdained their philosophizing. Fromm and the others
 were two very different sorts of people. Fromm did not understand their
 brand of philosophy. His idealism is of the order of moral idealism
 (also influenced by his youthful immersion in Judaism); he seems to be
 overly idealistic in his assessments of others, for example. Politically
 he seems rather light, though his critiques of American politics and
 pathology were quite influential and important.

 One can see why Marcuse and the others were irritated by him, but their
 dismissal of his psychoanalytic work and their own rather dogmatic
 appropriations of Freud can be faulted.

 There are some articles on Marcuse vs Fromm online. I'll look for the
 links. The author's name eludes me at the moment, but it will come to me.

 On 06/02/2010 09:53 AM, Domhnall Ó Cobhthaigh wrote:

 Stephen, sorry I don't speak German very well at all, certainly not 
 sufficient to read any of this material in German. But thanks anyway.



 CB, I think you misinterpreted me - perhaps it's my own inadequate 
 self-expression - I think Bourdieu's approach is fundamentally marxist - it 
 does not negate marxism. On the other hand I think that he adds some 
 additional thoughts coherent with marxism. He has the advantage of 
 expressing himself very carefully and precisely.



 Here's a good piece by him which covers a lot of ground:



 http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/fr/bourdieu.htm



 I think Fromm approached the same issue from a slightly different 
 perspective using psychoanalytic methods.



 Again, I see Fromm took great care to maintain the decisive but not finally 
 determinate role of the (productive) material base but I think it is valid 
 to see how fundamentally human (animal) drives are repressed by dominant 
 material (social) conditions can influence ideology through the subconscious.



 In both cases, I was wondering if comrades here had come across arguments 
 which might run counter to these. The issue at stake is the accusation of 
 'idealism' a la Lenin or from Marcuse. In regard to the latter, I think I 
 would tend to agree with Fromm who reversed the accusation to point to 
 Marcuse's philosophy being based on a disconnect with psychoanalytic 
 research (and the dogmaticism of Freudian concepts).



 In regard to Lenin's assault on idealism, that's another question - perhaps 
 comrades would be able to give their opinions on it? There would appear to 
 be some consensus that it was misplaced although Timpanaro appears to stand 
 over the bulk of his remarks pointing to their context as opposed to their 
 expressed content. I do not know enough on this to really have a set opinion 
 so would value any thoughts.



 Yours,

 Domhnall
  
 _
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 https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
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[Marxism-Thaxis] Pierre Bourdieu and Erich Fromm

2010-06-01 Thread Domhnall Ó Cobhthaigh

I'm trying to expand my horizons. One person who's work I'm looking into is 
Pierre Bourdieu. 

 

What are the key works from a marxist perspective? I'm also keen to find out 
any marxist critiques on his work - although I have to say from the little I 
have read it looks to be very much marxist but fully expanded to grasp both 
moments of the subject-object dialectic.

 

Also, on Erich Fromm, I wonder if anyone has any critiques of his work (aside, 
that is, from Marcuse). On that latter, what are the opinions on Fromm's own 
critique of Marcuse - i.e. that he doesn't fully grasp psychoanalysis and that 
his method is weak because it is not informed by empirical data.

 

Thanks for all responses.

 

Yours,

Domhnall
  
_
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