In a message dated 1/17/2005 1:01:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>The League of Black Revolutionaries and Communist League was led by Nelson Perry into (League of Revolutionaries" [or something like that, that still put out People's Tribune which appears regularly on laborpartypraxis postings by Mike] not to the PLP. Being a Black person and member of the Black movement in the 60s does not mean you understood it, any more than being Black validate your ideologies regarding either nationalism; or having been raise in the Church constitute and understanding of Christianity. And, you are wrong about Trotsky and the SWP, what he had were discussions with CLR James, James Cannon and others regarding the Negro question, and made suggestions to them. BTW - my criticism of Aristide and the Church has nothing to do with the crude atheism of Stalinists masquerading as "Bolsheviks".<<< Reply Lil Joe . . . you left of the word "Worker" in describing what you believe to be aspects of the formation of the League of Revolutionary Black Workers. Then you delibrately twist things to read "The League of Black Revolutionaries" (this is what you wrote, not I) to present a different political concept and obscure our conscious understanding of the polarity we gave shape to during the transition from one phase of the working class movement and its industrial sector as it intersected with the industrial sectors of the African American Liberation Movement. You go to far. Perhaps it is wrong to call this being dishonest but I do not know what else to call matters. Where did I speak of "The League of Black Revolutionaries," which you attribute to me in your response? You of course lie about Nelson Peery and his role in "The League of Black Revolutionaries," which you invented in your mind for reasons known only to you. Fine. Would it not be prudent to deal with matters one is familiar with and can authenticate? Nelson Peery was never a member or leader of the League of Revolutionary Black Workers LRBW). Where did you get this information and what is your source? Herein resides the dishonesty of presentation. The League of Revolutionary Black Workers is converted into the "League of Black Revolutionaries" - something invented in your mind Lil Joe, and then an outright lie takes place. The Dodge Revolutionary Union Movement (DRUM) came into existence as the result of the May 3, 1968 wildcat strike at Hamtramck Assembly plant. This was the catalyst that made DRUM into a viable in-plant Black workers' organization. Organization and structured didn't come into existence until two months after DRUM's development. The LRBW came later as a federated form of organization. The concept of a "League of Revolutionary Black Workers" had been in the minds of activists General Baker, John Watson, John Williams and Luke Tripp for many years. In 1964 and 1965 they had put out a theoretical journal called "Black Vanguard" which called for a "League of Revolutionary Black Workers." Between December 1968 and Spring 1969, meetings were held with the "cadre collective" (a loose coalition of activists who had worked together since the days of UHURU) to discuss the formation of the "League of Revolutionary Black Workers." The book on the League, "Detroit: I Do Mind Dying" by Dan Georgakas and Marvin Surkian, somewhat distorts the history and development of the LRBW. I was also a founding member of the League. "The LRBW legally incorporated in June 1969 and opened its headquarters at 179 Courtland Street in October. I had "run away from home" to join the movement and lived in the office of the LRBW at the time. The League began public projection In July 1969 with the Inner City Voice as its official organ. For the most part, a city-wide Black student movement developed in the high schools and colleges and affiliated themselves with the League. The high school groups, led by the students at Northern High School, put out a newsletter called Black Student Voice. While in Detroit, Glanton Dowdell - (who would later flee to Sweden), was the students' mentor. I state categorically, that Nelson Peery was on the West Coast at the time and involved in the California Communist League and had nothing what so ever to do with the League of Revolutionary Black Workers. Why would you state the opposite, which cannot be authenticated by anyone and understood by everyone involved in this activity to be an outright lie? As far as the need to validate ones ideology (you state: Being a Black person and member of the Black movement in the 60s does not mean you understood it, any more than being Black validate your ideologies regarding either nationalism) . . . I have no need to validate anything to anyone and most certainly the Black Intellegenica has never needed to validate its precepts and the various ideologies within the African American Liberation Movement. Further, I am familiar with every major writing by CLR James (the Trinidad intellectual) on the Negro Question. I am familiar with much of Trotsky's writings and utterances on the Negro Question. CLR James was the leading spirit of the "Changing Reality Group" in Detroit. James Boggs (Notes from a Negro Workers Notebook) left the groups and was one of several mentors of the LRBW. The LRBW was formed in June 1969 - legally incorporated and as I understand it the League of Revolutionaries for a New America came into existence almost 30 years later. My point is that you go to far and simply do not know the historically confirmed facts. You state I am wrong on Trotsky and the SWP and I assume that you have already read the series of articles I wrote dealing with CLR James writings and Trotsky's criticism of his American comrade on the Negro Question, which to call "the black movement" and which I call African American Liberation and the African American peoples movement. These writings appeared on the A-List. Others appeared on Marxmail and Pen-L. The problem is that you will not quote where I am incorrect in dissecting CLR James articles on the Negro Question and this seems to me to be dishonet. Specifically, I wrote about the following articles of CLR James, which is old hat for many of us: "The Right of Self-Determination and the Negro in the US SWP," New York Convention Resolutions, July 1939: The SWP and Negro Work SWP New York Convention Resolutions 1939: "Revolution and the Negro" New International, December 1939. "Socialism and the National Question" New International, October 1943: "Negroes in the Civil War" New International, December 1943 and of course the mockery of history called "The Historical Development of the Negro in the United States," Workers Party document, 1943. The last article by James, "The Historical Development . . ." is an affront to anyone with a basic common sense history of the American Union. I did try to place CLR James in a historical context and generally used the 1928 document of the Comintern as the turning point in the Leninist presentation of the Negro Question. The words "historical development" means to me the path of evolution and or formation of that, which is being discussed. Mr. James traces this historical development of the Negro to the Revolutionary War, while I choose to trace the formation of the Negro people as a people within the framework of slavery and the completion of the evolution under the pressures and violence of the whites and the system of Jim Crow and segregation and Black Belt fascism. CLR James makes the same basic mistakes of most immigrant intellectuals relocating to America and gravitating to Marxism . . . although there are exceptions like Claudia Jones. In one article for Marxmail I directly quote the writings of Leon Trotsky on the Negro Question and his criticism of how his comrades approached matters. This can be validated and authenticated by a quick search of the index. The issue is not ones membership in a group of people - what ever that means: ("Being a Black person and member of the Black movement in the 60s"). Ac tually, my parents were active during the period of the 1960s and in 1969 I was seventeen (17) years old. My activity in the union and election to union position occupies the time frame of the 1970s to the year 2001, when I retired from Chrysler Motors. Specifically I occupied the position of Committeeman and for a moment was Chairman of the Shop Committee, the highest elected positions in a Chrysler facility. I did not consider this work the "Black Movement" - whatever that means, but revolutionaries in American have strange individual logic. I was also an Executive Board member of the American Writers Congress and never considered this the "Black Movement" but everyone has their opinion. As Editor of the Southern Advocate, which was part of the old Equal Rights Congress, I did not consider this the Black Movement and most of the Chicano's and Mexican Nationals did not consider the ERC as such but what the hell do I know. Even as an Executive Board member of the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists Metropolitan Detroit, none of us considered this activity to be the "Black Movement" but rather the trade union movement par excellence, and the impact of the African American Peoples Movement on its structures. There of course was the Vote Communist Campaigns in Detroit - 1976 and 1978, and one can call this the "Black Movement" if they wish but the participants and organizers was majority Anglo American. I headed the "Labor for Baker Committee." This is not to say I understood anything I was involved in, which you apparently understand better. What it is to say is that the basis of my politics is rooted in an authenticity of activity. I simply will not discuss whether to work amongst the member of the trade unions or the Church. I am always amazed and grateful at the efforts of individuals to aid the battered lowest sector of the proletariat and old sharecropping class in understanding their historic battering of the state. I am such that if these segments of the population knew such help and understanding was forthcoming they would have baked a cake. Lil Joe - you go to far and bite off more than you can chew. If you desire to speak of the old League of Revolutionary Black Workers and this history, would it not be more prudent to get the basic facts available to anyone? If you desire to speak of the specific features of what you call the "black Movement" you are of course going to be challenged on the basis of authenticity (what is ones history of activity in a distinct sphere) and run into the African American intelligencia and not simply face conflict within the Marxist intelligencia. This thing about Nelson Peery being a leader of the League of Revolutionary Black Workers and/or the existence of a group called "The League of Black Revolutionaries" . . . where did you get this source of information from? Or did you invent this? Waistline _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis