Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

Youse might like to skim my article on planning/market called 'Marxism Deformed: the default into market socialism' which is on my webpage www.geocities.com/davebedggood. tho its now a few years old. I just mention it. Dave On 28 Mar 00, at 18:00, Hugh Rodwell wrote: > Rob huffs and puffs a bi

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

Rob obligingly answers my questions: >G'day again Thaxists, > >Quoth Hugh: > >>a) that Trotsky is in fact arguing for market socialism as an *alternative* >>to the dictatorship of the proletariat with centralized planning and >>centralized control of finance and foreign trade; > >No, he's arguing

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

Hugh Rodwell wrote: >This is clearly the stumbling block. Joanna sees a kind of transitional >phase between bourgeois ownership of the means of production and >proletarian ownership. As if the bourgeoisie would let go of them without >some other force immediately taking over the reins of ownershi

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

> >Is there a gleam of light at the back of Rob's mind here? Is he at last >groping towards the key that can unlock the gate keeping him in that dark >tunnel? All he's got to do is see how the mass leadership of the workers >could be transformed from the revolutionary Marxism of October to the >c

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

In article , Hugh Rodwell writes >Not mine, Marx's! > >Why? Well, I wrote: > >>>Yes. With the rider that productivity will need to be higher than that >>>attained by capitalism (at least with respect to the economy as a whole) in >>>order for the setting

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

G'day Hugh'n'Dave, Quoth Hugh: >Yes. With the rider that productivity will need to be higher than that >attained by capitalism (at least with respect to the economy as a whole) in >order for the setting of prices by planned labour input to supersede the >pressures of the Law of Value working thr

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

Dave B writes: >Further to Hugh's. >Isnt capitalism generalised commodity production which includes >labour-power i.e. wage-labour? Very much so. >Prior to capitalism commodity production was secondary to use- value >>production, and typically not by means of wage labour. Therefore the >social

Re: M-TH: Re: Capital is wrong (production for sale, or not)

Further to Hugh's. Isnt capitalism generalised commodity production which includes labour-power i.e. wage-labour? Prior to capitalism commodity production was secondary to use- value production, and typically not by means of wage labour. Therefore the socially necessary labour time was not set b