Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Feitshization -things vs relations

2009-01-19 Thread Waistline2
BodyS writes:
 
 Fetishizing, it seems to me, is the transformation of the  thing
into a social entity. (end) 
 
The problem is that Marx's view is the exact opposite. For  him,
fetishization is the transformation of a social relation of power into  a
thing -- for instance, the car is assigned the status that comes with  the
power over others expressed by the owner's ability to dispose over  social
value, or money is seen as a source of wealth rather than an  expression of
power over the labour of others embodied in a product of  labour. 
 
Cheers,
 
Hugh 
 
 
Comment 
 
Things as relations seem more appropriate to a title of  Feitshization.
 
I am of the opinion that Marx concept of the fetish that attaches itself to  
commodity production, (THE FETISHISM OF COMMODITIES AND THE SECRET THEREOF) 
is  much richer than status seeking or the assignment of status over 
product(s) or  raw consumerism or ideas concerning why an individual prefers a 
Cadillac over a  Jeep. One can imaginably develop a fetish (idol worship) or 
lust 
over anything,  but this is not Marx meaning. 
 
Industrial production is by definition social production because of the  
concrete configuration of the instruments, tools, machines and energy source  
driving production. Because of the society division of labor, people must  
cooperate a certain way - even against their will, in order for society  
reproduction 
to take place. Capitalism is an interlocking system of buying and  selling - 
commodities, and selling and buying, with the means of production  owned/run 
or made operational on the basis of capitalist private property  principles. 
 
In a society where all products acquire the form/function, of a commodity;  
social relations between (of) people, appear and is expressed, assert  
themselves, as a material relations between things. 
 
The material act of buying and selling or exchanging everything  
(commodities) is how bourgeois production relations express the unity of  
production. 
 
The mode of production in which the product takes the form of a commodity,  
or is produced directly for exchange, is the most general and most embryonic  
form of bourgeois production. It therefore makes its appearance at an early 
date  in history, though not in the same predominating and characteristic 
manner 
as  now-a-days. Hence its Fetish character is comparatively easy to be seen 
through.  But when we come to more concrete forms, even this appearance of 
simplicity  vanishes. Whence arose the illusions of the monetary system? To it 
gold and  silver, when serving as money, did not represent a social relation 
between  producers, but were natural objects with strange social properties. 
 
Since the producers do not come into social contact with each other until  
they exchange their products, the specific social character of each producer’s  
labour does not show itself except in the act of exchange. In other words, 
the  labour of the individual asserts itself as a part of the labour of 
society, 
only  by means of the relations which the act of exchange establishes 
directly between  the products, and indirectly, through them, between the 
producers. 
 
SECTION 4 : THE FETISHISM OF COMMODITIES AND THE SECRET THEREOF 
_http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm#S4_ 
(http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm#S4)  
 
A commodity is not merely a product created by labor. When individuals in a  
society creates products for their own immediate consumption, these products 
do  not acquire a commodity form. Products acquire a commodity form when they 
are  produced for their exchange value. A table is a table whether produced in  
antiquity or today. However, the King of antiquity table does not acquire the 
 form of a commodity. It is only at a certain stage in the growth and 
development  of production and exchange that the social relations between 
people 
appear as  and express a real existing material relations between items being 
exchanged -  things. Only through exchange is that one common ingredient to all 
products -  value, expressed, revealed or made manifest. 
 
However, it is not just exchange of values that create the fetish attached  
to commodities. Money hides the social (production) relations of producers. 
 
1). The characters that stamp products as commodities, 
2). and whose  establishment is a necessary preliminary to the circulation of 
commodities,  
3). have already acquired the stability of natural, self-understood forms of  
social life, before man seeks to decipher, not their historical character, 
for  in his eyes they are immutable, but their meaning. 
4). Consequently it was  the analysis of the prices of commodities 
5). that alone led to the  determination of the magnitude of value, and it 
was the common expression of all  commodities in money 
6). that alone led to the establishment of their  characters as values. 
7). It is, however, just this ultimate money form of 

[Marxism-Thaxis] Feitshization -things vs relations

2009-01-16 Thread Charles Brown
Fetishization -- things vs relations
Hugh Rodwell m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se 
Fri Sep 25 01:20:38 MDT 1998 

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BodyS writes:

 Fetishizing, it seems to me, is the transformation of the thing
into a social entity.

The problem is that Marx's view is the exact opposite. For him,
fetishization is the transformation of a social relation of power into a
thing -- for instance, the car is assigned the status that comes with the
power over others expressed by the owner's ability to dispose over social
value, or money is seen as a source of wealth rather than an expression of
power over the labour of others embodied in a product of labour.

Cheers,

Hugh





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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Feitshization -things vs relations

2009-01-16 Thread Mehmet Cagatay
I differ here with both BodyS and Hugh Rodwell. I think Marx applied the term 
fetishism to denote the singularity that in capitalist societies the commodity 
form of our mutual objects converts them to fetishes that provide the 
recognition of social relations in the imaginary form through concealing the 
reality whenever we exchange our products we equate the different kind of labor 
expended in production. As a result, the real relations of production is 
disavowed and at the same time accepted but through fetishism in an illusory 
fashion. 

Mehmet Çagatay
http://weblogmca.blogspot.com/


--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Charles Brown charl...@cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us wrote:

 From: Charles Brown charl...@cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us
 Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Feitshization -things vs relations
 To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
 Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 8:19 PM
 Fetishization -- things vs relations
 Hugh Rodwell m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se 
 Fri Sep 25 01:20:38 MDT 1998 
 
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 author ] 
 
 
 
 BodyS writes:
 
  Fetishizing, it seems to me, is the transformation of
 the thing
 into a social entity.
 
 The problem is that Marx's view is the exact opposite.
 For him,
 fetishization is the transformation of a social relation of
 power into a
 thing -- for instance, the car is assigned the status that
 comes with the
 power over others expressed by the owner's ability to
 dispose over social
 value, or money is seen as a source of wealth rather than
 an expression of
 power over the labour of others embodied in a product of
 labour.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Hugh
 
 
 
 
 
 This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl
 plc. www.surfcontrol.com
 
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