Re: [Marxism] Alain Badiou on Ukraine, Egypt and Finitude [23th April 2014]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/1/14 5:21 PM, Ralph Johansen wrote: Similarly, the fact that Ukraine has always had separatist tendencies and that these have constantly been reactive: that is, backed by strongly reactionary powers and even worse. The Ukrainian Orthodox clergy, whose sacred city is Kiev, has played a determining role in all this, and it goes without saying that it is the most reactionary on Earth, a megalomaniac centre of Imperial Orthodoxy. This separatism at certain moments reached extremes that no one could forget, particularly not the Russian people, knowing that the vast mass of the Nazi-armed and organised armies coming from Russian territory were Ukrainian. The Vlasov army was a Ukrainian army. Do people take the trouble to fact-check the bullshit they forward to the list? You don't have to go to the library. Just look at the Wikipedia link that comes up when you google Vaslov army. There was no Vaslov army. Adolf Hitler permitted the idea of the Russian Liberation Army to circulate in propaganda literature so long as no real formations of the sort were permitted. (Wiki) When they finally got the green light to form divisions made up of Russians, they were only deployed in the West as part of the Wehrmacht because Hitler feared that they would be susceptible to local anti-Nazi feelings in the East, especially in a place like Ukraine that the Nazis turned into a graveyard. As I have pointed out on multiple occasions, polls taken in Ukraine indicate that 98 percent of those polled regard the Red Army positively while only 2 percent feel the same way about the Bandera militias. Those in Vaslov's army who did fight in the West were worthless to the Third Reich. A number of such soldiers were on guard in Normandy on D-Day, and without the equipment or the motivation to fight the Allies, most promptly surrendered. (Wiki) In fact, the ROA or Russian Liberation Army did not come into existence as such until Heinrich Himmler convinced Hitler to permit the formation of 10 divisions. By February 1945 only one division had come into existence. The only active combat the Russian Liberation Army undertook against the Red Army was by the Oder on 11 April 1945, done largely at the insistence of Himmler as a test of the army's reliability. After three days, the outnumbered first division had to retreat. (Wiki) Alan Badiou is a horse's ass. I won't comment on Ralph Johansen's carelessness in forwarding his junk except to say that if Ralph was still practicing law, I'd hate to be in his client's shoes. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Alain Badiou on Ukraine, Egypt and Finitude [23th April 2014]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Notice his denial that there even is a Ukrainian nation. Maoist asshole. It has no past because we do not know where all this is coming from, for example the fact that Ukraine is a component part of what was for centuries called Russia; that only very recently did an independent Ukraine take shape, within the framework of a very particular historical process: the unravelling of the Soviet Union On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Ralph Johansen mdriscol...@charter.netwrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What strikes me about the Ukrainian situation, considering what we learn reading the press, listening to the radio etc., is that it is captured and understood according to an operation that I would call the complete stagnation of the contemporary world. The commonplace narrative is to say that Ukraine wants to join free Europe, breaking with Putin's despotism. There is a democratic and liberal uprising whose goal is to join our beloved Europe -- the motherland of the freedom in question -- while the sordid, archaic manoeuvres of the Kremlin's man, the terrible Putin, are directed against this natural desire. What is striking in all this is that everything is framed in terms of a static contradiction. Well before the Ukraine affair there was already a fundamental schema constantly at work, distinguishing the free West from all the rest. The free West has but one mission, that of intervening everywhere it can in order to defend those who want to join it. And this static contradiction has neither a past nor a future. It has no past because -- and it is particularly typical in the Ukrainian case -- nothing about Ukraine's own real history is ever considered, named or described. Who cared about Ukraine before last week? Many people did not even have much idea where it was... Ukraine, champion of European freedom, suddenly takes to the stage of History; and this is possible because what is taking place there can be described in terms of the static contradiction between Europe, motherland of freedom, democracy, free enterprise and other such splendours, and then all the rest, including Putin's barbarism and the despotism that goes with it. It has no past because we do not know where all this is coming from, for example the fact that Ukraine is a component part of what was for centuries called Russia; that only very recently did an independent Ukraine take shape, within the framework of a very particular historical process: the unravelling of the Soviet Union. Similarly, the fact that Ukraine has always had separatist tendencies and that these have constantly been reactive: that is, backed by strongly reactionary powers and even worse. The Ukrainian Orthodox clergy, whose sacred city is Kiev, has played a determining role in all this, and it goes without saying that it is the most reactionary on Earth, a megalomaniac centre of Imperial Orthodoxy. This separatism at certain moments reached extremes that no one could forget, particularly not the Russian people, knowing that the vast mass of the Nazi-armed and organised armies coming from Russian territory were Ukrainian. The Vlasov army was a Ukrainian army. Today we can even read the history of Ukrainians turning entire villages to blood and fire, including French ones. A good part of the repression of the /maquis/ in central France was carried out by Ukrainians. We are no identitarians, we are not going to say: 'What bastards, those Ukrainians!', but all this does constitute a history, the history of a certain number of the political subjects in Ukraine. Moreover, the contradiction has no future, because the future is pre-constituted: the Ukrainians' desire will be to rally to good-old Europe, an already-existing citadel of freedom. The operations imposing this finitude here bear on time itself. If time is finished, it is because it has been stopped. The time of propaganda is an immobile time. It is very difficult to make propaganda for a time-in-becoming: we can make propaganda for what /is /but not for what /is/ /becoming/. And here we have the propaganda that the Ukrainian uprising is static, in that it came out of nothing and is heading towards something that already existed, democratic free Europe. full at: http://simongros.com/text/articles/alain-badiou/alain- badiou-ukraine-egypt-finitude-present-defaults-unless-crowd-declares/ --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [Marxism] Alain Badiou on Ukraine, Egypt and Finitude [23th April 2014]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Louis Proyect wrote something typically intemperate. I'm not writing for the New Yorker, vouching for every word, nor are most who post here. And I know nothing of the history of the Vlasov army, nor do I think it's material. Badiou was making a far deeper point, not hinging on the accuracy of his recounting of the activities of the Vlasov army. He's commenting that what he learned reading the press, listening to the radio etc., is that it is captured and understood according to an operation that I would call the complete stagnation of the contemporary world. That's his topic thesis and that's what I paid attention to in reading the article. Did you? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Alain Badiou on Ukraine, Egypt and Finitude [23th April 2014]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/1/14 8:14 PM, Ralph Johansen wrote: something typically intemperate. I'm not writing for the New Yorker, vouching for every word, nor are most who post here. And I know nothing of the history of the Vlasov army, nor do I think it's material. Actually, we have higher standards than the New Yorker that routinely publishes garbage from Jon Lee Anderson and David Remnick despite its long-vanished reputation for fact-checking. If you can't figure out that Badiou's article was identical to the ones posted 5 times a week on DissidentVoice, Counterpunch, and Global Research--except with some high-falutin' philosophical verbiage--than I can't help you. I guess I've developed a nose for bullshit having been around it for over 3 years on Syria. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Alain Badiou on Ukraine, Egypt and Finitude [23th April 2014]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/1/14 8:40 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: Judging from that Žižek article you posted here last night, I should certainly think so! :-D Seriously, I know of no one who fact-checks everything they post here, or on any comparable forum. And: glass houses, stones, etc., etc. For the edification of new subscribers, Joseph--who went a year or so without posting here--is a supporter of Bashar al-Assad. I am not sure why since he called himself an anarchist some time ago (I think--at least he adores the Black bloc). Most anarchists would like to see him hung in Syria by his entrails. I of course am referring to al-Assad, not Joseph. Despite his admission that he is not a Marxist, he has no trouble interjecting himself into the ongoing discussions here. My guess is that he is influenced by the pro-Baathist elements of the Palestinian leadership since he resided (or may still reside) in Gaza. As people can easily figure out, there are very few people--probably none--who don't line up on Ukraine as they do on Syria. For them, geopolitics trumps the class struggle. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
