Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 09:41 04-07-14 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 7/3/14 8:18 PM, martin schiller wrote: when I 'reply' to a list msg, the new msg is addressed to the original sender and the list. If an original sender is the person who reported the problem, and is receiving duplicates of replies to his own messages, that should be the explanation. I tend to remove the original sender address and leave the list address when I reply. Hi, Martin I am cc'ing the list on this since I too was a bit puzzled by this. It turns out that there is no need to delete the sender of the email when replying because it only goes to the list and not to the sender, ie. you. Actually that is wrong (usually, at least). If someone just hits Reply, then the new email acquires 2 recipients in the To: field. One email goes to the list server and is forwarded to the list members, and the other one goes directly to the author of the mail that was replied to. So in this case, Louis should be receiving TWO copies of this email, one directly from Jeff, and the other one as a member of the list from Jeff via Marxism. Actually that isn't a great problem, just a bit confusing. Normally when replying I delete the recipient other than the list address (but didn't in this case, as a demonstration). It happens because the Reply-To: field has both addresses included. It should really only have the list address, like it used to, before things were changed a month ago to deal with an unrelated problem. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 12:03 06-07-14 -0400, you wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 7/6/14 11:55 AM, Jeff wrote: Actually that is wrong (usually, at least). If someone just hits Reply, then the new email acquires 2 recipients in the To: field. One email goes to the list server and is forwarded to the list members, and the other one goes directly to the author of the mail that was replied to. So in this case, Louis should be receiving TWO copies of this email, one directly from Jeff, and the other one as a member of the list from Jeff via Marxism. No. I only received one email. Well that's real funny, because I just got two emails from you!! It is a bit confusing but Mailman sorts this out. No, the mail server couldn't possibly sort it out because it only received one of the emails, not the one that was sent (using the internet, as usual) directly to the sender. I'm sure others can attest to having received such double copies as I have described (and just received myself). I cannot understand why Lou doesn't observe this himself. Perhaps his email program collapses what it perceives as duplicates, though that's hard to imagine. Or perhaps he has two different addresses and is only looking at one. But there is no question that what I described is the case. The bigger problem is that sometimes when you do a reply, the list address is dropped, never the person who wrote the email. That is to watch out for. Specifically, in this instance when I replied, I had to add the list address Well that has never happened to me, but is interesting. The email that I sent out a few minutes ago includes the following header: Reply-To: Jeff meis...@xs4all.nl, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Therefore if your email program is properly honoring the Reply-To header, it should have composed an email to both addresses. But all this shows is that email programs are not totally standardized, even dealing with plain email. But don't imagine that everyone's system is exactly the same as yours, or that I am just imagining that I get duplicate emails in the exact way I described for the exact reason I described! - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 12:26 06-07-14 -0400, Les Schaffer via Marxism wrote: Jeff: can you check that you do not have a double filter rule that copies the same message twice ... we have discovered this with two Outlook users. its an honest enough mistake to check once. Les No, I'm quite sure that isn't the case and wouldn't explain exactly what I have described. Rather, when Lou sent an email to the list (but which also included my address) I received two similar emails, one from Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu (sent by the list, with the added Rule #1 etc.) and one from Louis Proyect l...@panix.com sent directly by his personal email account. Les, do you not likewise receive two copies of THIS email (which I just hit reply to, thus containing both addresses), as I have described? If not, then I am really confused. But aside from what Lou reported, it all makes sense given the Reply-To that is generated by the list server in its latest incarnation. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 7/6/14 12:26 PM, Les Schaffer via Marxism wrote: can you check that you do not have a double filter rule that copies the same message twice ... we have discovered this with two Outlook users. its an honest enough mistake to check once. Les I should add that after polling the list, the only people who reported getting dupes had the Outlook problem Les alludes to. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 12:36 06-07-14 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: I should add that after polling the list, the only people who reported getting dupes had the Outlook problem Les alludes to. Well I don't understand that (and I certainly don't use Outlook myself!) but if it's not a problem to others then I'm certainly not going to waste any time worrying about it. And I'm sorry if I wasted others' time with an issue that, as I had said, doesn't cause any real harm to begin with. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I said I wasn't going to worry about this (and I'm not worried). But looking back, I see that there were two totally separate issues involved. I just received this communication: Recently I have been receiving duplicates of all mailings from this list. That must be the problem you were talking about with two filter rules, so that EVERY email from the list gets duplicated ON HIS COMPUTER. That isn't what I was talking about. I was talking about a totally distinct problem which was reported under the same subject heading: On 7/3/14 8:18 PM, martin schiller wrote: when I 'reply' to a list msg, the new msg is addressed to the original sender and the list. If an original sender is the person who reported the problem, and is receiving duplicates of replies to his own messages, that should be the explanation. I tend to remove the original sender address and leave the list address when I reply. Hi, Martin Martin's experience is exactly mine, and is why I got two emails when Lou thought he was only posting to the list. But his email program also sent out one directly to me (as it should have done, given the Reply-To), as did one other post where someone responded to a post of mine. Again, I can't understand why no one else has noticed this. But if someone is looking at the list's email in a mailbox where all list emails are filtered into, then that mailbox will (depending on the rule) only show the one that came from the list, and the one sent directly might stay in the inbox, for instance. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Jeff: can you send me, offlist, the FULL internet headers for each of the duplicates. one pair should be enough. if others have this problem do the same thing. if you dont know how to insert the full headers into an email to me, ask me. Les On 07/06/2014 12:40 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 12:36 06-07-14 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: I should add that after polling the list, the only people who reported getting dupes had the Outlook problem Les alludes to. Well I don't understand that (and I certainly don't use Outlook myself!) but if it's not a problem to others then I'm certainly not going to waste any time worrying about it. And I'm sorry if I wasted others' time with an issue that, as I had said, doesn't cause any real harm to begin with. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/schaffer%40optonline.net Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/06/2014 01:02 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: Martin's experience is exactly mine, and is why I got two emails when Lou thought he was only posting to the list. But his email program also sent out one directly to me (as it should have done, given the Reply-To), as did one other post where someone responded to a post of mine. Again, I can't understand why no one else has noticed this. egads with the new way that Mailman is handling the addressing: IF someone replies to a list email from person XXX and both the original sender AND the list are in the To/CC, THEN will receive two emails. the solution is to get people to remove from their reply. i posted on this ages ago when the switch in Mailman occurs. Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/06/2014 01:36 PM, Les Schaffer via Marxism wrote: with the new way that Mailman is handling the addressing its been a while since we switched servers, i''ll ask Hans for a short explanation for why things are done differently now. i used to know, can't remember the details any more other than it was a change that was to fix delivery issues to yahoo addresses as well as some other classes of subscribers (maybe google, cant remember). Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == here's the details, if anyone cares to wade thru it. http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/DMARC c.f.: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/04/09/2047205/yahoo-dmarc-implementation-breaks-most-mailing-lists http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html# what it means for now is that the only way to allow people to reply offlist to a poster -- since we are removing them from the From: for DMARC purposes -- is for Mailman to push poster address into the Reply-to, which already includes the list address. i THINK Hans says taht some better solutions may be possible when the server is moved to Mailman 3.0 otherwise, we have to force classes of subscribers (yahoo, in particular) to use a different email address. or, make it hard for people to respond directly to a poster offlist. Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Duplicate emails (test)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 3, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == TEST Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
