We drove the '87 300D about 300 miles today - IT was idling very rough
when we left, 150 miles later is was purring like a kitten when we
pulled into the drive at our destination. Let it sit for 4 hours while
we went Breezy flying, then headed home - it idled roughly, as before,
when we started
She is attending both Jesuit schools here and at home. For some
reason the jeebus stuff does not seem to compute for her. Still
trying to get her head around people believing in spaghetti. Too hard
to have her understand it is tongue in cheek. I think the way they
teach is too literal
Yes, I was wondering about a new chain. The PO did a couple of Diesel
purge treatments, we haven't, but I do have a can or two in the
garage.
It has new injectors, and hand cleaned pre-chambers, but we really
didn't get a thorough cleaning done of the deeper inner recesses.
Perhaps both Redline
If the timer is stuck, it's stuck at the idle end, and you would get
horrible smoke at full throttle.
Peter
\
On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:43 PM, OK Don wrote:
Yes, I was wondering about a new chain. The PO did a couple of Diesel
purge treatments, we haven't, but I do have a can or two in the
Well, that's not the case. I was thinking perhaps it wasn't returning
to the idle state, but since the timing is retarded, that isn't very
likely - hmmm, just needs a little logic applied.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the timer is stuck, it's stuck
Last week, taking the kids to school, there was a car with the FSM,
may his noodly goodness touch us all!, on the boot lid. Since we were
too close to school to go in depth, I promised to tell my temp-
daughter what it was all about when we got home in the afternoon.
Then I forgot what I
See previous email. I will be there when Hickory Park serves tofu.
:-)
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:48 PM, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Y'all Will have to excuse Lt Don this time. He has been eating way
to much Awa corn this summah.
Everyone (ELSE) knows FSM is Factory Service
The rest of the joke for you non-Iowa folks: Hickory Park is a WONDERFUL BBQ
place in Ames (Iowa State town) . Probably seats 500+ and is filled to
capacity from opening to closing.
Getting a seat in under 15 minutes at Hickory Park is sort of like stumbling
onto free sample day at The Chicken
I don't know about the Pastafarians, but the Jebbies do a good job of
edumacating impressionable youngsters.
--R
Redghost wrote:
Last week, taking the kids to school, there was a car with the FSM,
may his noodly goodness touch us all!, on the boot lid. Since we were
too close to school
We measured the timing today - it's at 18 degrees ATDC, should be 15
+/- 1. It blows less (almost none) white smoke when it's at operating
temp, and idles smoother, though still not as even as it should. So we
drove it up to temp, and checked the timing again, thinking that the
injection timer
Flying Spaghetti Monster gives Benz advice? Cool. I knew I liked that
religion for some reason.
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Not according to my MB trained friend nor the FSM.
--
LT Don
http://don.homelinux.net/~don/
apt-get update
apt-get
Factory Service Manual.
Peter
On Sep 21, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Wonko the Sane wrote:
Flying Spaghetti Monster gives Benz advice? Cool. I knew I liked that
religion for some reason.
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Peter Frederick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Not according to my MB trained
Maybe.
Maybe not.
http://www.venganza.org/
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Factory Service Manual.
Peter
On Sep 21, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Wonko the Sane wrote:
Flying Spaghetti Monster gives Benz advice? Cool. I knew I liked that
religion for some
The combination of late valve timing (low compression) and late
injection timing will get you into trouble.
If it were me, I'd roll in a new chain,as the 60x engines appear to
be rather sensitive to chain stretch and usually don't show much when
well maintained (mine had no stretch at all
Y'all Will have to excuse Lt Don this time. He has been eating way
to much Awa corn this summah.
Everyone (ELSE) knows FSM is Factory Service Manual!
Don, Are you coming over for some BBQ tomorrow night? Hickory Park, 7 PM.
MBCA crosscountry drive from East coast to the West coast to arrive
BZZZT, WRONG. The cone goes down.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You ARE putting them conical side DOWN, right? The hollow side faces
the injectors.
Wrong! The conical side faces the injectors so that it is pushed against the
injector face to form a gas tight seal and shield the injector
They are backward then.
OK Don wrote:
I've been installing them woth the conical side up - just as they were
when I removed the injectors. However, I understand that doesn't mean
they were installed right to begin with.
I can't tell from the FSM - there is no text to speak of, and the
you cant set it on a 60x with a drip tube because it does not have the
hand primer pump
Peter Frederick wrote:
You can set the timing with a drip tube, of course. 26 degrees
BTDC. However, you will have to fabricate a drip tube (rubber hose
that fits over the nipple will work) as there
You could if you wired in a 'lectric fuel pump for temporary use.
At 10:20 PM 9/8/2008, you wrote:
you cant set it on a 60x with a drip tube because it does not have the
hand primer pump
Peter Frederick wrote:
You can set the timing with a drip tube, of course. 26 degrees
BTDC. However,
None of the injectors I've ever torqued had this feeling. They always
hit a stop, then clicked at 70NM. I'd begin to suspect something
related to the crushed washer syndrome.
Luther
OK Don wrote:
The rebuilt injectors arrived from Rusty Yesterday evening --
installed them this afternoon.
Luther wrote:
None of the injectors I've ever torqued had this feeling. They always
hit a stop, then clicked at 70NM. I'd begin to suspect something
related to the crushed washer syndrome.
Hope it isn't upside down washers.
Mitch.
___
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '87 300D saga continues
The rebuilt injectors arrived from Rusty Yesterday evening --
installed them this afternoon. (FYI - they come with new seal rings).
When we pulled the old injectors out, one of the seal rings had the
center section almost punched out
Nope - they come out right side up.
Hope it isn't upside down washers.
--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
'90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply
Grand Voyager
Good - catch! Hadn't thought of that. Guess it's because I've never
had reason to check the injector timing before. We did measure the
chain stretch before pulling the head, and it was OK - don't remember
the degrees now though. I'll have to read up on timing the IP.
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 8:31
You ARE putting them conical side DOWN, right? The hollow side faces
the injectors.
I don't remember any significant crush.
Peter
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email
You ARE putting them conical side DOWN, right? The hollow side faces
the injectors.
Wrong! The conical side faces the injectors so that it is pushed against the
injector face to form a gas tight seal and shield the injector face from the
heat of combustion. The conical side gets
Not according to my MB trained friend nor the FSM. There is a cavity
on the flat side that serves as a head shield for the nozzle.
Conical side DOWN, hollow side UP. The seal is between the outer
edge of the nozzle and the prechamber outer rim, not the hole in the
bottom.
Upside down
I've been installing them woth the conical side up - just as they were
when I removed the injectors. However, I understand that doesn't mean
they were installed right to begin with.
I can't tell from the FSM - there is no text to speak of, and the
picture is too small and crude to tell - I can
You can set the timing with a drip tube, of course. 26 degrees
BTDC. However, you will have to fabricate a drip tube (rubber hose
that fits over the nipple will work) as there is no factory tool.
You can also use the IP lock tool -- it will only seat when the IP is
at the correct
Are you saying that the square edged ring at the top of the
pre-chamber seated before the conical section in the middle - between
the large top and the small tip section?
ttp://tinyurl.com/644beq
These prechambers wnet back into the same holes they came out of - no
machining in the holes, only the
The flat (ish) side of the seal goes against the bottom of the
injector nozzle. it is a heat shield as well as a seal. THe little
tit goes into the prechamber.
| |Nozzle tip
||
\__/ Seal
\ /
I never was much good at ascii art.
At
Pics will be attached if they're small enough to pass the size filter
- the one on the right is new, the one in the center is partially
punched out, the one on the left was run the same time as the middle
one, but didn't get punched (or torn).
003 shows the side that I've been putting down -
Pics will be attached if they're small enough to pass the size filter
- the one on the right is new, the one in the center is partially
punched out, the one on the left was run the same time as the middle
one, but didn't get punched (or torn).
003 shows the side that I've been putting down -
] '87 300D saga continues
Pics will be attached if they're small enough to pass the size filter
- the one on the right is new, the one in the center is partially
punched out, the one on the left was run the same time as the middle
one, but didn't get punched (or torn).
003 shows the side that I've
I would definitely verify valve and injection timing then, if the PO
claimed it smoked white cold it may indeed be off, and the 603 is
more sensitive to injection timing than the 61x engines.
There is a slot or a recess in the end of the tool that engages the
nipple on the governor shaft,
OK - we have 14 prechambers in a 14 head.
We just puller the injectors and installed new seals, the right way
this time. It made no difference in the way it idles. Still have white
smoke.
While it was idling we sprayed brake cleaner into the recess where the
clamping ring screws into the head to
You should pull #3 and see why it's not sealing. Can be dirt on the
seal ring, crud in the threads, etc, or carbon preventing the pre-
chamber from seating completely.
If you cut the ends off the prechambers you will promptly burn holes
in the piston crowns. Direct injection injectors spray
We pulled #3 - couldn't see why it wasn't sealing, also pulled #1 to
check the holes, and to compare against #3. All looked good. Cleaned
them up best we possibly could, wiped a thin layer of Hylomar on the
seal edge of the prechambers and reassembled. The leaking around #3 is
now about 1 bubble
OK Don wrote:
FYI - if you don't remove the glow plug before pulling the prechamber,
it gets the end neatly sheared off - don't ask how I know this!
If you aren't careful, the tip of the glow plug will fall into the
engine unknown to you... then the engine dies. Don't ask how I know
this!
Our's was still inside the prechamber --
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 8:58 PM, John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK Don wrote:
FYI - if you don't remove the glow plug before pulling the prechamber,
it gets the end neatly sheared off - don't ask how I know this!
If you aren't careful, the tip
It's truely amazing what you can learn by screwing up
Don't try to pull a prechamber with a series loop glow plug in it, I
don't thing you can shear it off like that
Probably not timing causing the irregular idle variation. I'd switch
the suction hose from the tank to bypass the
We did replace the o-ring at the pressure/exit fitting of the lift
pump. The suction side is cast into the housing - nothing to replace
there. All the hoses are new. The fuel thermostat has a new o-ring,
and is now plumbed to match the other 2 124's in the drive. When we
got the car, the suction
OK Don wrote:
Our's was still inside the prechamber --
Half the tip of mine had been melted by an injector with no pintle.
That same injector also ate two holes in the prechamber walls... so
thats probably where the smaller GP tip fell out of.
That is an interesting picture set. I have seen many older engines
with the marks from the remains of GP loops. I have never seen a
prechamber so messed up. Your piston top looks more like a ball
bearing was bouncing around in there. The pencil type GPs are much
less troublesome than the
I did just notice that there is a line coming off the top of what I
think is the vacuum control valve (#65 in the drawings) towards the
rear of the IP that has no hose connected to it. All the hoses/tubes
that I see are connected to something. I guess this is a miss-wired
as the fuel lines
Is the IP lock tool something that can be made from a bolt - turning
the end down to the right shape?
I did. I cut a notch in the end of a bolt. See:
http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/mb190dlog.html
Somewhere in there. It's not as good as the real thing,
methinks.
-- Jim
The rebuilt injectors arrived from Rusty Yesterday evening --
installed them this afternoon. (FYI - they come with new seal rings).
When we pulled the old injectors out, one of the seal rings had the
center section almost punched out, and we've seen this everytime we've
pulled injectors out. Very
Talked to Rusty this morning - Bosch remanufactured injectors are $44
each - ordered them instead of taking the old ones to be rebuilt.
Sounded like a bargain to me ---
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:15 AM, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also -- we called all three shops - the price is the same for
Send them to us and we'll return them this weekend.
Luther
OK Don wrote:
The intake valve guides were within tolerance, the exhaust guides are now new.
Yes - we bought a complete set of new head bolts and installed them.
The prechambers didn't look al that gunked up - we did clean them
There are two Bosch certified shops in OKC - I'll take them to the
closest one Tuesday AM ---
Thanks for the offer though.
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Send them to us and we'll return them this weekend.
Luther
--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three
Also -- we called all three shops - the price is the same for a
rebuilding and calibrating injectors - $60.00 each.
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:09 AM, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are two Bosch certified shops in OKC - I'll take them to the
closest one Tuesday AM ---
Thanks for the
This is the car with a rough idle and copious quantities of white
smoke, that goes away after 10 to 15 miles.
We loosened the fuel lines to the injectors, one at a time to see
which cylinders were firing and which weren't.
We found that #6 made the most difference when loose, and #1 made no
The pump that was on the car was fine but the rack position sensor was
fine. I had the pump that was on the engine in my other 91 2.5 that I
am doing the engine swap, its pump was leaking fuel into the oil. It was
cheaper to have that pump completely rebuilt and recalibrated etc than
to just
Ok - so a complete rebuild of a 5 cyl pump was ~$500. That's what I
was looking for.
Another bit of information about the 'troubles' - we replaced all the
delivery valve seals on the IP before we pulled the head (some were
leaking).
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL
Several possiblities here, including a lousy valve job!
Check with the machine shop and find out what the valve to guide
clearance was, and if they tested the valves for perfect seal before
giving you the head. Correct valve to guide clearance is 0.001 to
0.0015, and this is critical. I
The intake valve guides were within tolerance, the exhaust guides are now new.
Yes - we bought a complete set of new head bolts and installed them.
The prechambers didn't look al that gunked up - we did clean them
before re-installing, but mostly the exterior. All of the balls inside
look fine
I think you are correct.
I had considerably more white smoke than I expected, and huge amounts
of injector knock at low speeds for a while after I did the head
gasket on mine -- naturally, I cleaned the head up shiny looking for
cracks (that were there and I didn't see them).
Hopefully
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