Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread clay via Mercedes
But we have such exhaustive records for the past 140 years! That should count for something? Maybe that is a large enough sample size surely? The tree rings tell us how it has never been warmer than it is now. All the decayed dinosaurs are proof that it took a huge rock from outer space to m

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Max wrote: > Thanks Craig. Amazing how a little perspective on how the climate has > changed demonstrates (with science) why global warming alarmism is a fraud. Yes, this is true. How can we work together, instead of against each other regarding different assessments of the information? If one

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Thanks Craig. Amazing how a little perspective on how the climate has changed demonstrates (with science) why global warming alarmism is a fraud. Andrew, did you bother to look? Care to comment on why that science should be discounted? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On Decemb

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
The facts are in the emails to/from the DNC posted by wikileaks. No mystery. No magic. Just the facts as told by democrat party operatives. Jon Agne via Mercedes December 7, 2016 at 5:34 PM Please show me your “stubborn FACTS.” _

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam Please show me your “stubborn FACTS.” > On Dec 7, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes > wrote: > > The only brownshirts I've seen lately have been worn by democrat operatives > such as Robert Creamer and Scott

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Jon Agne via Mercedes
; Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:39 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam > > Alt right is the group that spreads fake news - much like yourself. Brown > shirt - look it up. > > On Tue, Dec 6, 2016

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Easy. Install solar and wind power. On Dec 7, 2016 4:05 PM, "Mountain Man via Mercedes" wrote: > Andrew wrote: > > Earth is not Cooling, Climate Change is Real... > > This is nice and perhaps agreeable, really. > What about what we *do* will change Real Climate Change? > What can be accomplished

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Andrew wrote: > Earth is not Cooling, Climate Change is Real... This is nice and perhaps agreeable, really. What about what we *do* will change Real Climate Change? What can be accomplished? Don't talk with us plebes - take it upstairs to the money junkies - they own the generating plants, the tr

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
You're right. I would rather cook a turkey in a HOT oven than a COOL one. On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:50 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Please don't side with the Weather Channel on anything. I live within a > 100 miles of their headquarters and they can't get my wea

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread rogerhga--- via Mercedes
Please don't side with the Weather Channel on anything. I live within a 100 miles of their headquarters and they can't get my weather forecast correct. So, please don't trust their take on climate change, global warming, or whatever nonsense comes up. Over 50 years ago when I was in school, the

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
I think you meant inconvenient "truth". ;) On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes >> December 7, 2016 at 1:17 PM >> The only brownshirts I've seen lately have been worn by democr

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes December 7, 2016 at 1:17 PM The only brownshirts I've seen lately have been worn by democrat operatives such as Robert Creamer and Scott Foval. The narrative has been that Trump and his supporters incite violence, but the stubborn FA

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
; Strasfogel via Mercedes > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:39 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam > > Alt right is the group that spreads fake news - much like yourself. Brown > shirt - look it up.

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
ginal Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam Alt right is the group that spreads fake

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
You can't even spell consensus. Or is the jury still out on that as well? On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Pull your head out of the sand. It has already been proven that the > "concensus" is fake, and the data was faked. > > Reality

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Pull your head out of the sand. It has already been proven that the "concensus" is fake, and the data was faked. Reality sucks, but it is real. Show me an SPC run chart covering not 200 years, but 20,000 years or 2 million years that shows the temperature process is out of control. Old Sol

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Here's another example of what Breitbart does to twist the truth: Weather Channel blasts Breitbart climate claims E&E News reporter Published: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 The Weather Channel issued a terse response to a recent Breitbart News Network story that questioned the existence of climat

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
If you can actually read that, you want to barf. Whatever that is may have been born a boy, but certainly is not a man, nor a guy. Arnold's girlyboy or the buttercup label might fit. Mitch Haley via Mercedes December 7, 2016 at 7:07 AM This guy needed ass

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Some of the tricks the half-wits have pulled this week learning to drive in snow has come very close to putting brown in my skivvies... -Curt From: clay via Mercedes To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: clay Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-07 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes
This guy needed assistance to get through election night: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/my-post-election-crisis-a-top-hillary-fundraisers_us_583d2ae0e4b0bb2962f17854 > On December 6, 2016 at 11:32 PM clay via Mercedes > wrote: > Mayhap they will finally suffer a breakdown and get the insti

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
It will be at least 8 years on end. clay via Mercedes December 6, 2016 at 10:32 PM This silliness that the progressives are engaged in would have resulted in massive condemnation had it been unleashed against the boy who won the whitehouse in 08. There would have

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
It was not about safe, it was about spewing the party line. One guy was not a mind numbed robot, so he is branded and labelled and hated for being brave enough to question the party line. clay via Mercedes December 6, 2016 at 10:07 PM Uh, this was supposed to be

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
Surviving local rag is twisting themselves into pretzels with how to present the news in a manner that will still sell papers in this vapid wasteland of liberal utopia. They used to be the more conservative daily, but now it all seems to be written by the media giants of 1984 with double speak

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
This silliness that the progressives are engaged in would have resulted in massive condemnation had it been unleashed against the boy who won the whitehouse in 08. There would have been screeching from the top of lung that this sort of behavior was so egregious that it would have lasted all of

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
I have some brown on my skivvies. Does that count? I can make up some news, but my imagination tends to follow the unbelievable sheningans of the local leftists. Truth being stranger than fiction clay > On Dec 6, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > Alt right is

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
Uh, this was supposed to be an opportunity for students to express their emotions about the election. One kid expressed his feelings, in this safe place, where he should have been comfortable, and is now a hater. clay > On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > >>

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
Warren tends to suck up all manner of goodies, vampires the profits from it, then will pass it along. He likes to keep his hands clean by not being in the loop of the ethically challenging practices his many companies engage in. His trailer park company likes to screw over the people they do b

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Peter wrote: > Fake news would be imaginary things reported as fact, such as the Satanic > child abuse ring headquartered at a pizza place in DC. > > Most of it appears to me to come from Russia. ;-P mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
Fake news would be imaginary things reported as fact, such as the Satanic child abuse ring headquartered at a pizza place in DC. Most of it appears to me to come from Russia. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Hear Here! Way to go Mao Tin Man! Mountain Man via Mercedes December 6, 2016 at 9:21 PM Agreed - Alt Rite are pathetic. Fake news? - Who is the arbiter of fake versus non-fake? Don't we all get news fake or non-fake via internet? $Million$ are made either way. Sh

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Andrew wrote: > You must be joking. I obviously meant you and all the other fake news > brown shirts of the Alt Rite are pathetic. Agreed - Alt Rite are pathetic. Fake news? - Who is the arbiter of fake versus non-fake? Don't we all get news fake or non-fake via internet? $Million$ are made eith

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
OK, did some research. Here is the straight poop: "fake news" is the CCF/DNC/(J) code word for truth they don't want to hear. As a devoted fan of CCF, Andrew can't face the truth that the BW itch lost. Alt-rite is a boogeyman they made up. (they believe they won) These are part of the s

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> On December 6, 2016 at 9:05 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > > You must be joking. I obviously meant you and all the other fake news > brown shirts of the Alt Rite are pathetic. You are saying the news articles about the student who is wanted in by Edgewood College in Madison

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Alt right is the group that spreads fake news - much like yourself. Brown shirt - look it up. On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I don't own a brown shirt. I don't know what alt-rite is. Apparently it > is a slur manufactured by the CCF

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
I don't own a brown shirt. I don't know what alt-rite is. Apparently it is a slur manufactured by the CCF and the (J) party and the DNC (Debbie balbbermouth) I have nothing to do with fake news or any news. You, sir, owned a brown car! You must be suspect! Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
From: Curley McLain via Mercedes > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam > > > > > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Against all the German buttercups they might do okay... -Curt From: Curley McLain via Mercedes To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam > Andrew Stras

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes December 6, 2016 at 2:33 PM Pathetic. You are so right Andrew. All these whiny little buttercups (students, AFSCME, faculty) at college campuses ARE pathetic! If you inserted the current population (of buttercups) of the US into

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Pathetic. On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > On December 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" > > wrote: > > > > > > Suck it up and quit whining > > Kaleb just committed a Hate Crime (no, really, that's what they say at t

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> On December 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" > wrote: > > > Suck it up and quit whining Kaleb just committed a Hate Crime (no, really, that's what they say at the University of Wisconsin at Madtown). http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/23/students-reaction-to-trump-win-suck-it

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
Suck it up and quit whining Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2016, at 1:27 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > Follow the money - oil money is big money. They own this State and it's > government. Oil can do no wrong, everyone else just needs to suck it up nd > stop whining. > There are a lot of

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Follow the money - oil money is big money. They own this State and it's government. Oil can do no wrong, everyone else just needs to suck it up nd stop whining. There are a lot of pilots employed "flying the pipelines" looking for leaks. They usually find them. Then crews are sent to repair the pip

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Having done work with a number of the transmission line companies, I find it odd that everyone has their shorts in a knot over this. While I have concerns about the aging infrastructure having dealt with it directly, the transmission of oil, gas and other such things via pipeline is one of the

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
So, you think that might be just a coincidence? I'm sure it is. --FT On 12/6/16 10:41 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote: If I were warren, I'd call up soreass and tell him i'd give 'im a few mil to send protesters to stop any pipeline. Interesting tidbit: every pipeline is being proteste

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
If I were warren, I'd call up soreass and tell him i'd give 'im a few mil to send protesters to stop any pipeline. Interesting tidbit: every pipeline is being protested. I suspect this type of activity will not go well with the new sher'f Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
So, are we starting to see a pattern here? Do you derive any meaning from pattern recognition? Draw any conclusions from it? --FT On 12/6/16 8:56 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote: Floyd sez: ‎Check out who owns the railroad that >transports all this nasty stuff. Hmm. Union Tank Car...

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Warren Buffet will haul yer coal or yer bakken crude. He does not like mixed trains. he loves unit trains. He will haul corn when the coal is "off." Floyd Thursby via Mercedes December 6, 2016 at 5:32 AM Check out who owns the railroad that transports all this

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
We ARE a turd world country...since 2008. That is already changing. We are becoming the leader of the world again. Thar's a new Sherr'f in town! Mountain Man via Mercedes December 5, 2016 at 9:31 PM You are right there on the gulf coast so... you know this stu

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
Floyd sez: >‎Check out who owns the railroad that >transports all this nasty stuff.  Hmm. Union Tank Car... owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Burlington Northern owned by... Berkshire Hathaway. ‎Santa Fe... owned by... Berkshire Hathaway.  Rick ___ http:/

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-06 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
Check out who owns the railroad that transports all this nasty stuff. Discuss. --FT On 12/5/16 9:56 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote: There are several things going here: Pipelines are safer than moving that sludge in tanker cars -- there have been two very serious accidents already,

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread clay via Mercedes
true, it goes to Korea and Japan. State of AK is trying to get a NG pipeline to Cook Inlet so they can ship LNG to the orient clay > On Dec 5, 2016, at 5:26 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes > wrote: > > --FT wrote: >> Their goal is to stop that oil from coming here altogether... > > Someone

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Curley wrote: > The oceans ... ate up the gulf oil spill in a few weeks... You are right there on the gulf coast so... you know this stuff. Thanks. It seems corporations have lost the concepts that they need customers? Don't corporations need customers to make the corporation work? If enough cu

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
It doesn't dilute much in ground water. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
yes, the earph and the oceans are self healing. They eat oil. (or the critters that reside there do) The oceans are continually eating up the oil that constantly bubbles out of the ocean floor, and it ate up the gulf oil spill in a few weeks, rather than the decades the albore "experts" said

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Centuries? If that were true, all that oil spilled during world war two all up and down the east coast would have left New York and Maryland and Virginia and the rest uninhabitable. The solution to pollution is dilution... -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On December 5, 2016 9:5

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
There are several things going here: Pipelines are safer than moving that sludge in tanker cars -- there have been two very serious accidents already, one of which pretty much burned out a Canadian town. Bakken crude is much to thick to ship unadulterated, so it's mixed with solvent to mov

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
or not. Today I heard some expert claiming that albore (and the DJT dotter) is all wet, and the next big deal is the coming ice age. no sunspots. No sunspots=no heat on earph. I suspect he is right, as surface temp of the earph is tied to sunspots, not escapades, renegades, escapes, or

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 21:38:51 -0500 Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: > WEll that is the key. The Canadians are going to sell their oil one > way or the other, so it is going to be produced with the attendant > effects, so it matters not whether it comes here or goes elsewhere. > The globe will st

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
WEll that is the key. The Canadians are going to sell their oil one way or the other, so it is going to be produced with the attendant effects, so it matters not whether it comes here or goes elsewhere. The globe will still warm. --FT On 12/5/16 8:26 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote: -

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
It enables North Dakota to drain and sell is oil. On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Andrew wrote: > > Oil pipelines under a drinking water source is a bad idea, if alternative > > routes exist.. > > Yes. However, the system has a way to r

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Andrew wrote: > Oil pipelines under a drinking water source is a bad idea, if alternative > routes exist.. Yes. However, the system has a way to reclaim water... over time. Is there an upside to arguments FOR the pipeline? Media seems to be stuck on protest against but there don't seem to be def

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
--FT wrote: > Their goal is to stop that oil from coming here altogether... Someone said the oil is bought by China. Also said that Valdez oil all goes to Japan. Anyone? Is this true? or is it more partisan chatter? Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com T

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Oil pipelines under a drinking water source is a bad idea, if alternative routes exist.. Slight risk but a potentially catastrophic impact. Much like the BP Horizon spill, which has lingering effects and will have them for years. I used to think offshore oil was fail safe too until the BP disast

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
Their goal is to stop that oil from coming here altogether, so this is just one battle in that war. I had an interesting conversation with this young woman a year or so ago over a local issue where there is (was) a scheme to do seismic exploration and drilling offshore here. It is a completel

Re: [MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
I don't recall any oil pipeline ruptures, as the impact in minimal. If I were the pipeline company, I'd offer to install a pipe in pipe for the portion under the missouri river (which we are told is the rub) with an automatic pumping/recovery system for any oil leakage under the river. Some f

[MBZ] Excepts from Sierra Club spam

2016-12-05 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
I got this spam yesterday about the Dakota pipeline. I guess the Sierra Club would rather transport the oil with "nasty, dirty diesel trucks and train" that "history has taught us it's not a matter of if, rather when will they crash" and cause a spill. *sigh* --> snip <-- Take Action w