Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2021 11:37 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Buggered Benzmail
Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to jumpstart an Airbus, Jamaica edition.
Them frogbuses like to bore into the ocean too
--FT
Sent from iFōn
> On Oct 1, 2021, at 4:03 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>
Them frogbuses like to bore into the ocean too
--FT
Sent from iFōn
> On Oct 1, 2021, at 4:03 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Yes, 2nd week of flying, same exact problem except this time it happens in
> Jamaica (the island south of Cuba. Wtf American?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Yes, 2nd week of flying, same exact problem except this time it happens in
Jamaica (the island south of Cuba. Wtf American?
Sent from my iPhone
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All the aircraft makers have had their spectacular failures.
Lockheed's was the turboprop Electra, a nice aircraft by many accounts, until
the wings came off (literally) problem was corrected, and some are still in
freight and maybe firefighting service, and the P3 Orion is based on the
That was a DC-10. THOSE are noted for spectacular engine failures... :)
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 5:09 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> At least not until the center engine scatters and cuts the hydraulic lines
> for the control surfaces.
>
>
At least not until the center engine scatters and cuts the hydraulic lines for
the control surfaces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 10:07 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Kinda wish Lockheed was still at it. Never had any
Kinda wish Lockheed was still at it. Never had any problems on an L-1011.
-MMM-
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Some Korea-era jets could be jump-started using exhaust from a jet in front of
you. I think this lost favor with the bosses (but it was cool).
Most turbojets will air-start with enough airspeed to windmill the engine,
often possible in level flight in a 2-engine jet.
High bypass turbofans
Closest I've been to that is trying to leave Chicago for Xmas a while back.
Plane was parked stern to the 40 mph 5F wind, wouldn't start, had to wait for
the boost cart. Took forever, the ground crew could only be out 15 min at a
time or so, frozen de-icer everywhere. Terminal was icy, every
She is rubbing off on me I guess.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:23 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Shouldn’t Regina be on this flight? Sounds like it.
>
> -D
>
>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 4:18 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> wrote:
>>
>> We took off, this right
Shouldn’t Regina be on this flight? Sounds like it.
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 4:18 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> We took off, this right engine is making strange loud squealing noises like a
> bad bearing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Randy
We took off, this right engine is making strange loud squealing noises like a
bad bearing.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> I think that I might well have lost confidence in this aircraft and crew by
> the time they finally got it
I think that I might well have lost confidence in this aircraft and crew
by the time they finally got it going. I think, I would have got off of
that one and found another way to get to my destination.
Randy
On 20/09/2021 2:59 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
Nothing like a can of
The phrase that pays is "Lets see if I can't lock this thing up with ether"
-Curt
On Monday, September 20, 2021, 04:00:44 PM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
wrote:
Nothing like a can of starter fluid to get things going.
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:58 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Nothing like a can of starter fluid to get things going.
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:58 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Just as they were fixing to deplane again they got 1 to start. We just pushed
> back and sounds like they got 2 going, hopefully this thing makes it
>
> Sent
Just as they were fixing to deplane again they got 1 to start. We just pushed
back and sounds like they got 2 going, hopefully this thing makes it
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 2:46 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> It’s broken inside.
>
> -D
>
>> On Sep 20, 2021,
It’s broken inside.
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> So far not so good. Been back on the plane 30 minutes in the 100 degree heat,
> I don’t think their air cart is up to the task. You can hear the engines try
> to spin up but then falls flat like
So far not so good. Been back on the plane 30 minutes in the 100 degree heat, I
don’t think their air cart is up to the task. You can hear the engines try to
spin up but then falls flat like not enough air pressure.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin via
Of course we are back on the plane, I saw them swap out air carts, fired it up
for a bit then shut it down as they all stand around shaking their heads. What
do you bet this flight gets cancelled.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 2:09 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>
> Yep. We deplaned
Yep. We deplaned for close to 2 hours, now we are back on but looks like they
are still using the air cart to start the engines. I’m just going to STL, if I
would have driven I would have been getting there about now. As it stands I
won’t get in till 9pm.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20,
For those of you who fly commercial airlines, this video will give you
solid answers on backup systems, as well as what happened in the Scully
incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9yz6Gd216o
On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:25 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
American?
So much for any connections.
-D
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 12:18 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Well the flight is now delayed an hour while they “secure” the APU.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes
>> wrote:
>>
>>
Well the flight is now delayed an hour while they “secure” the APU.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Very rare to lose both engines in flight. So rare as "not supposed to happen
> in the service life of the aircraft" if it were to
I would add that this is referred to as “ETOPS”, or Extended range Twin engine
Operational Performance Standards (I had to look that up as I didn’t recall all
the words.) When I was flying some years ago it was referred to in hangar talk
as “Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim”.
-D
> On Sep 20,
In some aircraft the APU is required for extended range operation
certification, I believe. That is, if you lose an engine the APU can be relied
upon to provide power and cabin bleed air, taking the load off the remaining
(operational) engine. Of course, it also provides power for engine
If the plane has an AT then it needs to be towed at 45mph in N, then engage
D and Bob's your uncle.
On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 12:33 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Not sure why, the APU really does nothing once the engines are started. In
> any case they are saying
Not sure why, the APU really does nothing once the engines are started. In any
case they are saying another 30-45 minutes, hopefully.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>
>
> I was on a flight once with a dead APU and there was no heat. Fortunately PWM
Push-starting them is tricky.
-- Jim
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> Just not enough altitude and airspeed or were the engines damaged too badly?
No time. That's what was impressive, his ability to react quickly enough
choosing what _could_ be done, in time to not die. Engines dead too close
to ground, ignore them as the big dead weights that they are.
-- Jim
I was on a flight once with a dead APU and there was no heat. Fortunately PWM
to IAD wasn't a long flight, it was pretty cold in the plane by the time we
landed though.
That was a CRJ of some flavor...
-Curt
On Monday, September 20, 2021, 11:42:09 AM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
What happened with the famous landing in the river by Sully? Both
engines went out due to bird strikes and he was unable to restart them.
Just not enough altitude and airspeed or were the engines damaged too badly?
Randy
On 20/09/2021 11:13 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:
Very rare to
Very rare to lose both engines in flight. So rare as "not supposed to happen in
the service life of the aircraft" if it were to happen it would be from
something like contaminated fuel, a significant maintenance error, or massive
foreign object ingestion in both engines. If an engine flames out
Well they just rolled the air cart over and fired up the engines. Without an
APU one engine can start the other, but with both dead mid air and no APU, I
would only hope the airflow would be enough to spin them up.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
I don't think they would need the starter to do an airstart if the
engine is spinning.
I was on a flight once that had the BSOD on the control system, they
rebooted the whole airplane 3X (start, shutdown, start...) then put us
off to go find another airplane.
--FT
On 9/20/21 11:34 AM,
Of course they can start the engines with the ground APU but I assume if they
lost both engines in flight they would have no way to start them.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>
> Never had this happen before. We pushed back, tug unhooked and plane
Never had this happen before. We pushed back, tug unhooked and plane lost all
power, completely dead. No lights no AC no engines. I immediately think they
lost the APU. Sure enough pilot comes on and says we lost the “backup” power to
start the engines. Now being towed back to the gate. Guess
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