Detonation is more the cracked piston route which can be
Diesels don't detonate, which is a flame front running
faster than the speed of sound in the medium. (If I recall
correctly.) Diesel fuel is sprayed into a hot chamber,
and burns as it goes in. Late-coming fuel doesn't find
any oxygen
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
tyler wrote:
It's amazing that Saab was running over 2 bar with the stock turbo-
It's amazing that I didn't catch that error in my message before I sent it.
Also amazing that I sent it to the list when I just wanted to
Alex Chamberlain wrote:
I'm glad you did---now I know the quick and dirty way to crank up the
boost on my '91 convertible Turbo without looking for computer
upgrades. ;)
Early 1980's, simple pressure dashpot wastegate actuator. Back off the locknut
on the actuator shaft, remove the e-clip,
This reaction amazes me in contrast! I'm also in another online
community- Turbobricks- where adding an enormous turbo to an NA Volvo
is considered a normal reliable daily driver.
I personally think you could run tons of boost daily through an
otherwise stock 240D and it would last LONGER
Boost doesn't hurt turbo diesels, too rich a fuel mixture or too
advanced injection timing does.
I say BOOST IT. If it's a turbo from a 300D that baby should be good
for 20+psi. Install a new radiator, retard the injection timing a bit
from stock, and adjust the mixture to keep the egts
Tyler wrote:
If the turbo conversion was done properly they would have added a large
oil cooler.
This is Benz, the oil cooler is already 1/4 the size of the radiator.
Mitch.
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modification.
To see more folks that are into hot-rodding (snicker, the thought that turning
a 72hp engine to 95hp is hot rodding is laughable) check out the forums on
Peach Parts.
-Curt
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 00:04:41 -0700
From: Tyler casi...@usermail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual
The only problem that time and time again when this is tried the engine
fails in short order
Tyler wrote:
This reaction amazes me in contrast! I'm also in another online
community- Turbobricks- where adding an enormous turbo to an NA Volvo
is considered a normal reliable daily driver.
I
I'm with you Tyler - I have pushed redblock B230s hard in 740Ts for well
over 300K with no adverse affects. Keep oil and colent in them and they
will keep performing for you.
You got any volvo's right now?
Peter
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Tyler casi...@usermail.com wrote:
This reaction
Curt Raymond wrote:
I think I'm one of the higher mileage current 240D drivers, 330 miles this
week, can anybody top that?
Wonko's got you beat. He drives 330 yards two times a day. ;-)
Mitch.
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--- On Fri, 5/29/09, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote:
maybe my memory is faulty.
mao
Your memory faulty?? What were we talking about anyway??
RH
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Yep, I've got a 1987 745 Turbo. It has 250k miles, I drive it and use it
VERY hard, and it runs (but doesn't look) like new.
Tyler
Peter Hertzing wrote:
I'm with you Tyler - I have pushed redblock B230s hard in 740Ts for well
over 300K with no adverse affects. Keep oil and colent in them and
I've been to chez Wonko and to his office, what he really needs is a
skateboard...
-Curt
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:23:53 -0400
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a1feff9.9040
There's no reason to have an inherent aversion to performance
modifications if they're done properly. As Marshall said, Mercedes
probably knows more about how to engineer a Mercedes than any of us, but
they didn't have hindsight, 30 years of technological advancement, or
specific knowledge of
Curt Raymond wrote:
I've been to chez Wonko and to his office, what he really needs is a
skateboard...
He's got a nice bicycle...
But Don claims he can't transport a 500lb client on it.
I tried to tell him Gary has his own cars...
Mitch.
___
From: tyler casi...@usermail.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:47 PM
They had to make specific tradeoffs to make a cheap, and general purpose
vehicle.
Extremely robust and durable (read over engineered) Absolutely. General
purpose perhaps. Cheap, no. In the 1980's MB automobiles were quite
Did Vulva ever put a system like Saab's APC on the 740 turbo?
I replaced a piston in a 1981 900 Turbo once. (APC came out in 1982) Never seen
a Mahle piston broke like that before.
My boss took it out for a test drive and asked if the boost gauge (no numbers)
was supposed to swing off scale.
Not to my knowledge. I new a lot of guys who have putthe Saab system on the
740
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
Did Vulva ever put a system like Saab's APC on the 740 turbo?
I replaced a piston in a 1981 900 Turbo once. (APC came out in 1982) Never
seen
There was a rare factory option called Turbo+ which functions similar to
APC and nearly doubles boost for a short period of time under WOT,
adding over 20 horsepower. It's very rare, and not as good as the APC
system.
Stock 740 Turbos do have a knock sensor which retards ignition timing,
Having some direct experience with turboed om616s I'll weigh in some
thoughts for what it is worth.
First off, an aftermarket om616 turbo will never be as robust as an
om617A without extensive modifications.
However, it can still be a decent motor and if setup correctly can last
quite a
This is only true on a gasoline engine which risks pre-detonation. A
turbo diesel simply has reduced power when it runs lean under boost, but
usually lower rather than higher EGTs. An NA injector pump won't meter
fuel as accurately as one with an ALDA, but if tuned conservatively it
won't put
tyler wrote:
It's amazing that Saab was running over 2 bar with the stock turbo-
It's amazing that I didn't catch that error in my message before I sent it.
Also amazing that I sent it to the list when I just wanted to send it to Tyler.
On the very early Saab turbos:
The dial markings stop
On May 29, 2009, at 3:46 PM, tyler wrote:
This is only true on a gasoline engine which risks pre-detonation. A
turbo diesel simply has reduced power when it runs lean under boost,
but usually lower rather than higher EGTs. An NA injector pump won't
meter fuel as accurately as one with an
Is it possible the pistons melted for some reason other than a lean
condition? I can't explain why those four vehicles melted pistons since
I haven't seen them- but I can't imagine it being caused by a lean
condition. Lean = cold, rich = hot EGTs in a diesel. Surely someone else
can back me up
Mathieu J. Cama wrote:
Then please explain the four MB diesel that I directly know of with
melted pistons from an excessive lean condition.
You don't know what the heck you're talking about?
Or you didn't mean to say diesel?
If an excessive lean condition melted diesels, they'd all drop dead
On May 29, 2009, at 5:20 PM, tyler wrote:
Is it possible the pistons melted for some reason other than a lean
condition? I can't explain why those four vehicles melted pistons
since I haven't seen them- but I can't imagine it being caused by a
lean condition. Lean = cold, rich = hot EGTs in
I think what you are describing is something else entirely from a lean
condition. If the injectors had a poor spray pattern and/or the wrong
opening pressure- they could have been injecting fuel too soon (leaking)
which would cause similar problems to pre-detonation in a gasoline
motor. This
On May 29, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:
Mathieu J. Cama wrote:
You don't know what the heck you're talking about?
Sure, not a clue.
Or you didn't mean to say diesel?
Must have been a typo.
If an excessive lean condition melted diesels, they'd all drop dead
idling in
your engine was also built for a turbo
tyler wrote:
Yep, I've got a 1987 745 Turbo. It has 250k miles, I drive it and use
it VERY hard, and it runs (but doesn't look) like new.
Tyler
Peter Hertzing wrote:
I'm with you Tyler - I have pushed redblock B230s hard in 740Ts for well
over 300K
No, you have that backward, lean is hot, too much fuel cools things off.
tyler wrote:
Is it possible the pistons melted for some reason other than a lean
condition? I can't explain why those four vehicles melted pistons
since I haven't seen them- but I can't imagine it being caused by a
lean
On May 29, 2009, at 5:43 PM, tyler wrote:
I think what you are describing is something else entirely from a lean
condition. If the injectors had a poor spray pattern and/or the wrong
opening pressure- they could have been injecting fuel too soon
(leaking) which would cause similar problems
Yes- in (and only in) a gasoline engine.
Tyler
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
No, you have that backward, lean is hot, too much fuel cools things off.
tyler wrote:
Is it possible the pistons melted for some reason other than a lean
condition? I can't explain why those four vehicles melted pistons
Or any other Otto cycle engine.
tyler wrote:
Yes- in (and only in) a gasoline engine.
Tyler
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Four times a day. I go home for lunch.
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
Curt Raymond wrote:
I think I'm one of the higher mileage current 240D drivers, 330 miles this
week, can anybody top that?
Wonko's got you beat. He drives 330 yards two times a day.
I believe that Tyler is correct -- a Diesel engine runs with max available
air all the time, and controls power by adding/subtracting fuel. More fuel,
more fire, more heat. A vergasser requires the correct stoichiometric
proportions to run correctly. Too lean, and it's too hot. Too rich, and it's
Nooner. ;
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
Four times a day. I go home for lunch.
On Fri, May 29
On Fri, 29 May 2009 17:50:23 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:
I believe that Tyler is correct -- a Diesel engine runs with max
available air all the time, and controls power by adding/subtracting
fuel. More fuel, more fire, more heat. A vergasser requires the correct
stoichiometric
: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:47:12 -0700
From: tyler casi...@usermail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a201fa0.3070...@usermail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
There's no reason to have
] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a2022d2.5000...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Curt Raymond wrote:
I've been to chez Wonko and to his office, what he really needs is a
skateboard...
He's
One thing we are forgetting is that MB does not like turbo Diesel manual
transmission cars. This is perhaps the big reason they did not turbo the
240D, there may be other reasons such as the fact that they offered the
300D NA alongside the 240D, for those who wanted a bit of extra grunt. I
OK lets get back to basic Diesel principles, nice and slowly...
During the intake stroke a Diesel engine either sucks in air (NA) or has
air forced into the chamber (turbo/supercharger).
Now the amount of air that is supposed to be in an engine is calculated
so as to set up the fuel
In my eyes, your stock rose by ten points by saying slowly rather than
slow -- sorry, I notice that sort of thing.
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote:
OK lets get back to basic Diesel principles, nice and slowly...
--
The only absolute is that
On May 29, 2009, at 3:46 PM, tyler wrote:
This is only true on a gasoline engine which risks
pre-detonation. A turbo diesel simply has reduced power when
it runs lean under boost, but usually lower rather than
higher EGTs.
Mathieu J. Cama wrote:
Then please explain the four MB
No not unless you introduce more air than stock.
As I attempted to explain earlier, it is the amount of air being
compressed that determines temperatures.
The amount of fuel does not influence temperature, neither does the
timing of the fuel injection. Incorrect fuel delivery for whatever
So do I.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
In my eyes, your stock rose by ten points by saying slowly rather
9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
In my eyes, your stock rose by ten points by saying slowly rather than
slow -- sorry, I notice that sort of thing.
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au
wrote:
OK lets get back to basic Diesel
Yea, Wilton, but our breed is no longer in vogue.
The breed may not be in vogue, but it is certainly not dead yet.
Rick
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Hey Guys,
I have a chance to offer on somebody I know who has a
1982 Black 240D manual transmission that has turbocharger.. It has 140,000
miles according to my MB mechanic who also works on it said it is a
beautiful car-to go for it!! Apparently this owner/friend
Is this some sort of custom aftermarket turbocharging job? If so, the
quality and reliability depends on how well the job was done, something
nobody can tell without inspecting the vehicle themselves- but it's
unlikely to be as good or reliable as a factory turbocharged vehicle.
There is no
If it is an original 616 engine with an after-market turbo, I'd be leary.
That engine was not engineered for a turbo - the increased temps and
pressures. There are significant internal differences between the 5 cylinder
617 turbo and non-turbo engines. Now, if it has a factory turbo'ed 617
engine,
rdeaf...@aol.com wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have a chance to offer on somebody I know who has a
1982 Black 240D manual transmission that has turbocharger.
Such a modification will reduce engine life if the fuel was turned up to match
the extra air going in. If the fuel wasn't
Just to play devils advocate (if you didn't notice, I like to argue...)
what harm would the turbo cause that would result in premature failure?
I know it would put extra stress on anything, but the whole engine and
drivetrain of a 240D is severely overbuilt.
Most older 240D engines I see
...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of tyler
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:41 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes 240D Manual Turbocharged
Just to play devils advocate (if you didn't notice, I like to argue...)
what harm would the turbo cause
I suddenly miss Marshall (again).
Check for melted pistons.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 1:46 PM, rdeaf...@aol.com wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have a chance to offer on somebody I know who has a
1982 Black 240D manual transmission that has turbocharger.
--
The only absolute is
There was no factory 240D Turbo. So it's either an engine change to a 617.95
engine or an add on. The former is OK, I guess, if you want to load the
clutch/tranny with torque it was not designed for. ( I'd do it, but I'm as
much a mule as you are an arguer (c: ) The drivetrains are
Richard wrote:
If it's an add on, I'd un-add it. You can probably sell it on Ebay.
I thought there was a guy in your neighborhood that sold add-on turbo.
Perhaps it is in the Hotlanta area - but I recall a guy years ago
that people recommended for quite reasonable design for turbo add-on -
Reeves Callaway did a conversion in the late 1970's or 1980.
It was noticeably slower than a 300SD, but IIRC it was as fast or faster than
the 300D NA of the period. I think when the 1982 300D turbo came out it made the
Callaway setup irrelevant. When I saw a test in Road and Track or Car and
Mitch Haley wrote:
Reeves Callaway did a conversion in the late 1970's or 1980.
Nope, it was concurrent with the turbo 300D. Here's the Motor Trend article, as
I posted to the list in 2005. I was a bit surprised to find my email message on
the net here:
tyler wrote:
Just to play devils advocate (if you didn't notice, I like to
argue...) what harm would the turbo cause that would result in
premature failure? I know it would put extra stress on
anything, but the whole engine and drivetrain of a 240D is
severely overbuilt.
Most older 240D
Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com writes:
I suddenly miss Marshall (again).
Check for melted pistons.
You mean MELTED pistons
Allan
--
1983 300D
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Mitch Haley wrote:
I was a bit surprised to find my email message on the net here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg06053.html
Which is why you must choose your words carefully when posting to an email
list. Such posts can outlive you or come back to haunt you
That would be an aftermarket turbo job, engine wont last very long with
that on there.
rdeaf...@aol.com wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have a chance to offer on somebody I know who has a
1982 Black 240D manual transmission that has turbocharger.. It has 140,000
miles according to
That is the service I use to create a archive database that can be searched.
Mitch Haley wrote:
Mitch Haley wrote:
Reeves Callaway did a conversion in the late 1970's or 1980.
Nope, it was concurrent with the turbo 300D. Here's the Motor Trend
article, as I posted to the list in 2005. I was
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