Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

 As someone who was involved in research involving micro turbines for 
distributed power, I can fully agree with what Grant is saying.

Back in my Kohler days we looked closely at small gas turbines for power 
generation, and so many of the requirements were beyond the scope of realistic 
(economic) operation the project never moved forward.

They continue to pursue this in the industry, but I don't ever see it being 
viable on a large scale.

Dan

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:28 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
> turbine engine.
> 
> Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of
> turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
> tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..
> 
> Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
> compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any size.
> Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
> components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will run
> you in the range of $20,000.
> 
> Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
> turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you will
> have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
> reverse for shut down sequence.
> 
> Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
> public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
> tire pressure.
> 
> Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:33:00 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
>>> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
>>> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
>>> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
>>> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
>>> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
>>> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>>> 
>>> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
>>> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
>>> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
>>> would also be nice.
>> 
>> Tell me more!
>> 
>> What kind of fuel efficiency would one expect?
>> 
>> What kind of turbine would one use?
>> 
>> Any idea where to buy one?
>> 
>> How would one gear it down to useful RPM?
>> 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
turbine engine.

Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of
turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..

Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any size.
Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will run
you in the range of $20,000.

Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you will
have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
reverse for shut down sequence.

Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
tire pressure.

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:33:00 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
> > not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
> > hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
> > and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
> > full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
> > is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
> > So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
> >
> > A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
> > cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
> > you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
> > would also be nice.
>
> Tell me more!
>
> What kind of fuel efficiency would one expect?
>
> What kind of turbine would one use?
>
> Any idea where to buy one?
>
> How would one gear it down to useful RPM?
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 was that this 
morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, no lights, no start, 
again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I was replacing the ground strap, it 
came to my attention that the whole cap of the shock tower was moving in unison 
with my wrench. Sh*t!It is almost adrift, which explains the occasional shimmy 
in the front end.Visions of flying off the road with my grand daughter 
yesterday played in my head.Maybe somebody up there is trying to get my 
attention! Thank you!
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.   
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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Wow, that is _rusty_!  Rusty but no longer trusty.

So, is the automatic antenna by chance working and how much would it cost
shipped down this way?  I could also use some tailgate parts...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 was that
> this morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, no lights, no
> start, again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I was replacing the
> ground strap, it came to my attention that the whole cap of the shock tower
> was moving in unison with my wrench. Sh*t!It is almost adrift, which
> explains the occasional shimmy in the front end.Visions of flying off the
> road with my grand daughter yesterday played in my head.Maybe somebody up
> there is trying to get my attention! Thank you!
> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruish*ters]

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Zackly

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "G Mann via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "G Mann" 
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf 
Pruish*ters]




Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
turbine engine.

Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of
turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..

Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any 
size.

Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will run
you in the range of $20,000.

Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you 
will

have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
reverse for shut down sequence.

Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
tire pressure.

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Craig via Mercedes 


wrote:


On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:33:00 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>
> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
> would also be nice.

Tell me more!

What kind of fuel efficiency would one expect?

What kind of turbine would one use?

Any idea where to buy one?

How would one gear it down to useful RPM?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:58:35 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt
> from the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in
> WI the edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and
> create more work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots
> except the road crew contractors.
> 
> Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This
> is what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)
> 
> Rhinelander has adopted the Hodag as the town mascot.  More Hodags =
> less Igarots = longer lasting roads?
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=rhinelander+hodag=isch=u=univ=X=0CDwQsARqFQoTCKq3tKas78cCFQyMDQodmIEHdw=1854=1081

I see ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 11/09/2015 11:33 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 was 
that this morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, no 
lights, no start, again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I was 
replacing the ground strap, it came to my attention that the whole 
cap of the shock tower was moving in unison with my wrench. Sh*t!It 
is almost adrift, which explains the occasional shimmy in the front 
end.Visions of flying off the road with my grand daughter yesterday 
played in my head.Maybe somebody up there is trying to get my 
attention! Thank you!
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. 
___


I had that happen in my old 110 rustbucket 190Dc winter car.  I took 
pieces of sheet metal, and self drilling sheet metal screws and 
stabilized the shock tower.  I drove it that way a couple more years 
until the car was permanently retired.   The 124, where the strut is 
also the suspension may be a little more tricky, but I am sure you can 
manufacture something to keep the strut bearing in place, M/L.


___
I have to wonder what your potential liability might be if that failed 
and resulted in an accident.


A bunch of lawyers would be all over that to show that you knowingly 
drove an unsafe car on the road and totally disregarded the safety of 
the public in so doing.


Now, having said that, I am assuming that this relates to the shock 
tower and not to suspension that holds the spring. This is not a strut 
but just a shock right? In which case it might well be ok to do it.


My wife's grandfather used to tell a story about driving down to Florida 
in the winter. He had the car filled up at a service station along the 
way and the gas jockey checked the oil for him and then came to the 
window and asked him to come look under the hood.
There was oil on the shock and the fellow told him that it was unsafe to 
drive the car with bad shocks and they could fix it for him quite 
quickly. Grandpa was smarter than that. He figured the fellow had some 
sort of small bottle that he used to squirt some oil onto the shock and 
that it was a scam, so he said to the fellow - "sonny, I have been 
driving cars since before they had shock absorbers, so I am not 
concerned about it"  and went on his way with his oily shock.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[G Mann via Mercedes]

So sorry to bring rain to the parade..

Reality is like that.   The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
replacement for use in motorcars.

The theory can be raised that mankind is inherently lazy. Horses, for
example, require incredible effort to feed, contain, train, and tame. Yet,
for centuries, they were the method of transport because humans would
rather ride than walk..

Go Green, Be Clean as long as it's easy..

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
>> turbine engine.
>>
>> Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of
>> turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
>> tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..
>>
>> Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
>> compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any
>> size.
>> Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
>> components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will run
>> you in the range of $20,000.
>>
>> Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
>> turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you
>> will
>> have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
>> reverse for shut down sequence.
>>
>> Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
>> public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
>> tire pressure.
>>
>> Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.
>>
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Could it be that when theory meets real world, sometimes the theory does
> not stand up?   Naa, couldn't be..
>
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:52 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
 wrote:

> So sorry to bring rain to the parade..
> 
> Reality is like that.   The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
> pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
> replacement for use in motorcars.

I'm not looking to use it in a motorcar ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Meade.Wow! I have not yet decided on the hulk's future and the scavengers are 
out!Seriously, I have not yet decided what the future holds. The antenna is 
kaput, permanently up. The tailgate is keeping the rain out, so far.I'll let 
you (se) know, when the decision is made.
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:01:10 -0400
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: dillonm...@gmail.com
> 
> Wow, that is _rusty_!  Rusty but no longer trusty.
> 
> So, is the automatic antenna by chance working and how much would it cost
> shipped down this way?  I could also use some tailgate parts...
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 was that
> > this morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, no lights, no
> > start, again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I was replacing the
> > ground strap, it came to my attention that the whole cap of the shock tower
> > was moving in unison with my wrench. Sh*t!It is almost adrift, which
> > explains the occasional shimmy in the front end.Visions of flying off the
> > road with my grand daughter yesterday played in my head.Maybe somebody up
> > there is trying to get my attention! Thank you!
> > Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-TWO-MICROTURBO-SAPHIRE-TURBINE-APU-PACKAGES-FOR-FALCON-CORPORATE-JET-/271958346624?hash=item3f51fb0b80=mtr


On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
>> a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine
>>
>
> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>
> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
> would also be nice.
>
> -- Jim
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Curly.Don't think I'll chance it. If it came loose it would, at least bore a 
hole in the hood, whilst giving me the choice of new underwear.

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:33:49 -0500
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: 126die...@gmail.com
> 
> >Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 
> >was that this morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, 
> >no lights, no start, again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I 
> >was replacing the ground strap, it came to my attention that the 
> >whole cap of the shock tower was moving in unison with my wrench. 
> >Sh*t!It is almost adrift, which explains the occasional shimmy in 
> >the front end.Visions of flying off the road with my grand daughter 
> >yesterday played in my head.Maybe somebody up there is trying to get 
> >my attention! Thank you!
> >Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> >___
> 
> I had that happen in my old 110 rustbucket 190Dc winter car.  I took 
> pieces of sheet metal, and self drilling sheet metal screws and 
> stabilized the shock tower.  I drove it that way a couple more years 
> until the car was permanently retired.   The 124, where the strut is 
> also the suspension may be a little more tricky, but I am sure you 
> can manufacture something to keep the strut bearing in place, M/L.
  
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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Randy, it is a strut but not a coil-over strut (there is a separate
spring).  Very bad if the upper strut came free, but not quite as bad as
the loss of control when the ball joint lets go.

Fred, thinking a little further, perhaps the issue is the rubber strut
mount (replaceable with ease) and not the surrounding sheet metal
(replaceable with advanced metallurgy skills and welding equipment)?


-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As a young boy growing up in Indianapolis, I vividly recall the revolutionary 
application of a gas turbine in a major motorsports event:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar

Under full race setup the reciprocating engined cars would easily exceed 120 db 
sound levels.  Andy’s car could barely be heard.

Another little known fact - Studebaker, through their ownership of STP, was a 
sponsor.  It never ocurred to me until now, but I found it humorous that 
drivers complained that it suffered from throttle lag.  Go figure…

Dan

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 2:31 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Like this?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-TWO-MICROTURBO-SAPHIRE-TURBINE-APU-PACKAGES-FOR-FALCON-CORPORATE-JET-/271958346624?hash=item3f51fb0b80=mtr
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
>>> a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine
>>> 
>> 
>> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
>> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
>> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
>> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
>> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
>> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
>> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>> 
>> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
>> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
>> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
>> would also be nice.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Here in SC there is apparently some under-the-radar resettlement of some 
sort of "refugees" "immigrants" or "migrants" or something, being 
coordinated by some "religious" organizations that stand to make a pile 
of dinars off all the free shiite that is being given away.


http://www.fitsnews.com/2015/09/11/upstate-refugee-resettlement-violates-state-law/ 
sorta explains they have this cover so they can appeal to the members of 
the bobble belt up in Sparkletown (which is like the little thing that 
sticks in the belt hole in the bobble belt -- the total center of it).  
It was kept muy quiet but somehow someone caught wind of it and got a 
lot of the local crazies exercised.  I'm not sure how the local 
"disadvantaged" community will take to these new folks coming in and 
getting mo free shiites than they get, causes a fair amount of friction 
among the gimmedats.


These same "religious" groups will be assisting with the Syrian 
"refugees" "immigrants" or "migrants" or something and doling out the 
free shiite to them, while taking their cut for "administrative" purposes.


I think the food from Syria and Lebanon and places like that is pretty 
tasty stuff, so I hope that at least some of them are able to open some 
restaurants to introduce summadat stuffs with all the taxpayer free 
shiite they are getting.  I like that wahhabi sauce too, clears out the 
sciences.


--R (It's a sunni day in South Carolina!)



On 9/11/15 12:45 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Why yes Andrew.. what a splendid idea...

Pack up and go live in a war zone, in a mud house, with no running water or
medical care, under constant threat of death..

Let me know how that works out for you, OK?

hahaa..

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


What a great idea - trading places.  Sort of like an adult exchange
service.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Scott wrote:

Well, here's one non-partisan truth:  The Government can't give

anything

to anybody without first taking it from someone else (and taking a cut
along the way).
Definitely sounds non-partisan but it certainly becomes partisan real
quick, doesn't it?
Maybe Gov. has a different mode of accounting.  Maybe there is not a
balance that is drawn against when Gov. give.

Thinking of which - The new wring-your-hands world fiasco is this
"crisis" of refugees at Europe these days and the Gov. taking that
will be had to transport 10k refugees to USA - no argument we are a
nice place to arrive and there seems to be much here to spread around.
Where do I sign up?  I want my place here to be one of the places that
the refugee comes to live, i.e. we trade places.  I guess someone
needs to pay for shipping bodies across the pond.  Maybe we can trade
body places and make this wring-your-hands world fiasco non-partisan.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 11/09/2015 1:43 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

We definitely have Igarots eating our private asphalt road here at the
airpark. Where do we get Hodags?

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt from
the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in WI the
edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and create more
work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots except the road
crew contractors.

Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This is
what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)





A good guess might be Wisconsin.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[OK Don via Mercedes]

We definitely have Igarots eating our private asphalt road here at the
airpark. Where do we get Hodags?

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt from
> the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in WI the
> edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and create more
> work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots except the road
> crew contractors.
>
> Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This is
> what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:52 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
 wrote:


 So sorry to bring rain to the parade..

 Reality is like that.   The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
 pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
 replacement for use in motorcars.


I'm not looking to use it in a motorcar ...

Craig


Craig,

You might find these interesting.  Jim Ettaro did many experiments 
with small gas turbines using hydrogen as a fuel.  I saw his 
turbocharger air pump run and I also saw the one in the second 
article run, and he had a third version he built that I saw run. 
Each was quite interesting, and the startup procedure did not appear 
that complex.  It would have been fairly simple to automate start up 
and shutdown with Jim's designs, however making one of the designs 
"failsafe" may not be simple.


Video of his small hydrogen turbine used to be on the calstate LA 
website, but I have not been able to find them for many years now.  I 
wish I had downloaded and saved them.  However Virgil Seaman at Cal 
State LA may be able to provide the video.


http://www.cleantransportationfunding.org/media_center/newsletter_articles/view/cal_state_l.a.s_new_sustainable_hydrogen_research_facility_looks_to_the_fut

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=12791=rtd=1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26q%3Djim%2Bettaro%2Bhydrogen%2Bturbine%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8#search=%22jim%20ettaro%20hydrogen%20turbine%22

https://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg119615.html 
Shhesh!  Okiebanz has lasted longer than Mercedes veterans or the 
Dickarde list.


http://www.calstatela.edu/univ/ppa/newsrel/supereagle2004f.htm


I would theorize that the small size of Jim's turbines and the 
hydrogen fuels avoided some of the problems Grant and Dan encountered 
with larger versions.  What is called a Microturbine generator (like 
a capstone) is in the 30 kW range, so is substantially larger than 
what Jim was dealing with.


I don't remember what engine he got the turbocharger from, but it was 
similar in size to the one on the 1.6L VW turbodiesel.  The final 
turbine engine I saw (that Jim made) was about 5" dia also.



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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

My wife's grandfather used to tell a story about driving down to 
Florida in the winter. He had the car filled up at a service station 
along the way and the gas jockey checked the oil for him and then 
came to the window and asked him to come look under the hood.
There was oil on the shock and the fellow told him that it was 
unsafe to drive the car with bad shocks and they could fix it for 
him quite quickly. Grandpa was smarter than that. He figured the 
fellow had some sort of small bottle that he used to squirt some oil 
onto the shock and that it was a scam, so he said to the fellow - 
"sonny, I have been driving cars since before they had shock 
absorbers, so I am not concerned about it"  and went on his way with 
his oily shock.


RB


I took the Escort Dissel into snears in Honolulu for something.  When 
it was done, the long faced "advisor" too me in to show me the 
"dangerous" condition of the car.  One of them had taken a oil squirt 
can and squirted oil on top of the shocks.  Then there was an 
entertaining song and dance about how it was unsafe and how they had 
to be changed right now, etc.  Each time I said no the story became 
more dire...


It was quite humorous but as the story became more dire and 
entertaining, I was also getting more annoyed.


another nail in the coffin  that holds snears, crowbar and company. 
It was also the last time I ever took a car to snears.


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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste 
heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. 
Lister engines are super cool too...
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 To: Okie Benz  
Cc: Dan Penoff  
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 3:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis 
h*ters]
   
This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left with 
“capstone” turbines.  Not sure of the significance, but I do recall the term 
being used.

I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 
10kW-15kW range.

They were talking at one time about producing them for use by restaurants like 
McDonald’s and Burger King to peak shave and provide hot water.

The projects I worked on that predated this were for the GE “Smart House” in 
Maryland.  One system we actually built and had operational there consisted of 
a three cylinder Yanmar diesel converted to natural gas running at 1200 RPM.  
There was a power management system using high current TRIACs that would allow 
the loads to be switched between the utility and the generator based on load 
balancing and peaks.  It was crude by today’s standards but worked well.  And 
the engine also produced hot water for domestic use through a heat exchanger, 
too.

One unit we took out of service had over 12,000 hours on it without ever being 
shut down or taken offline.  It could have gone a lot longer.  The insides were 
almost like new.

Dan


> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Craig,
> 
> You might find these interesting.  Jim Ettaro did many experiments with small 
> gas turbines using hydrogen as a fuel.  I saw his turbocharger air pump run 
> and I also saw the one in the second article run, and he had a third version 
> he built that I saw run. Each was quite interesting, and the startup 
> procedure did not appear that complex.  It would have been fairly simple to 
> automate start up and shutdown with Jim's designs, however making one of the 
> designs "failsafe" may not be simple.
> 
> Video of his small hydrogen turbine used to be on the calstate LA website, 
> but I have not been able to find them for many years now.  I wish I had 
> downloaded and saved them.  However Virgil Seaman at Cal State LA may be able 
> to provide the video.
> 
> http://www.cleantransportationfunding.org/media_center/newsletter_articles/view/cal_state_l.a.s_new_sustainable_hydrogen_research_facility_looks_to_the_fut
> 
> http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=12791=rtd=1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26q%3Djim%2Bettaro%2Bhydrogen%2Bturbine%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8#search=%22jim%20ettaro%20hydrogen%20turbine%22
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg119615.html Shhesh!  
> Okiebanz has lasted longer than Mercedes veterans or the Dickarde list.
> 
> http://www.calstatela.edu/univ/ppa/newsrel/supereagle2004f.htm
> 
> 
> I would theorize that the small size of Jim's turbines and the hydrogen fuels 
> avoided some of the problems Grant and Dan encountered with larger versions.  
> What is called a Microturbine generator (like a capstone) is in the 30 kW 
> range, so is substantially larger than what Jim was dealing with.
> 
> I don't remember what engine he got the turbocharger from, but it was similar 
> in size to the one on the 1.6L VW turbodiesel.  The final turbine engine I 
> saw (that Jim made) was about 5" dia also.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


> 


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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had 
left with "capstone" turbines.  Not sure of the significance, but I 
do recall the term being used.


I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in 
the 10kW-15kW range.


They were talking at one time about producing them for use by 
restaurants like McDonald's and Burger King to peak shave and 
provide hot water.


The projects I worked on that predated this were for the GE "Smart 
House" in Maryland.  One system we actually built and had 
operational there consisted of a three cylinder Yanmar diesel 
converted to natural gas running at 1200 RPM.  There was a power 
management system using high current TRIACs that would allow the 
loads to be switched between the utility and the generator based on 
load balancing and peaks.  It was crude by today's standards but 
worked well.  And the engine also produced hot water for domestic 
use through a heat exchanger, too.


One unit we took out of service had over 12,000 hours on it without 
ever being shut down or taken offline.  It could have gone a lot 
longer.  The insides were almost like new.


Dan


"Nothing runs like a Deere"  I was very impressed with the JD 5500 
(yanmar)  The gearshift was mickeymouse/klunky compared to the late 
60s/70s Dubuque tractors, but the engine, hydraulics, cab and 
everything else was nice.  The yanmar engine was way more 
sophisticated then the JDs of the same vintage.


75 HP in the size of a 15 HP IH A

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Having lived in southeast Wisconsin for eight years, I never heard 
of such a thing.  The wife used to go to Tomahawk regularly, as 
Harley-Davidson's fiberglass plant was there, but she never 
mentioned anything like this.  I'll have to ask her.


Maybe their range wasn't that far from Rhinelander?

Dan


No self-respecting Hodag would be caught near Milwaukee or a hardly 
davison plant.   She probably never heard of em.  They stick pretty 
tight to Rhinelander.  (its the beer)   They only drink Rhinelander 
Beer.


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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This is my third in less than a decade.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It seems like you've done a bunch of sphere replacements though. I guess
> with two cars...
> I think my new VW Golf needs brakes, I haven't done that in a few years.
> -Curt
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Fred Moir <
> fredh.s...@hotmail.com>
>  Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 2:50 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
>
> Max, I only do serious DIY work under the supervision of factory trained
> techs at MBCA tech sessions held at MB dealerships on qweekends.  So far,
> no disappointments in nearly 30 years..
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Mao.What indeed?!The local, Lynn MA, people sorted it out for me. Hooray
> > for the human touch!
> >
> > Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:46:22 -0500
> > > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
> > > From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > CC: maontin@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Fred wrote:
> > > > ...and now, instead of bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn,
> > they are off on a scenic ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has
> me
> > baffled...
> > > >
> > >
> > > My shipment has gone from Providence to my local USPS and out for
> > > delivery yesterday and then it sez it is in Santa Cruz in the same
> > > day.  What is rong with this Magic Kingdom USPS these days?
> > > mao
> >
> > ___
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> >
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>
>
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Having lived in southeast Wisconsin for eight years, I never heard of such a 
thing.  The wife used to go to Tomahawk regularly, as Harley-Davidson’s 
fiberglass plant was there, but she never mentioned anything like this.  I’ll 
have to ask her.

Maybe their range wasn’t that far from Rhinelander?

Dan



> On Sep 11, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 11/09/2015 1:43 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> We definitely have Igarots eating our private asphalt road here at the
>> airpark. Where do we get Hodags?
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt from
>>> the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in WI the
>>> edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and create more
>>> work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots except the road
>>> crew contractors.
>>> 
>>> Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This is
>>> what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> A good guess might be Wisconsin.
> 
> RB
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left with 
“capstone” turbines.  Not sure of the significance, but I do recall the term 
being used.

I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 
10kW-15kW range.

They were talking at one time about producing them for use by restaurants like 
McDonald’s and Burger King to peak shave and provide hot water.

The projects I worked on that predated this were for the GE “Smart House” in 
Maryland.  One system we actually built and had operational there consisted of 
a three cylinder Yanmar diesel converted to natural gas running at 1200 RPM.  
There was a power management system using high current TRIACs that would allow 
the loads to be switched between the utility and the generator based on load 
balancing and peaks.  It was crude by today’s standards but worked well.  And 
the engine also produced hot water for domestic use through a heat exchanger, 
too.

One unit we took out of service had over 12,000 hours on it without ever being 
shut down or taken offline.  It could have gone a lot longer.  The insides were 
almost like new.

Dan


> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Craig,
> 
> You might find these interesting.  Jim Ettaro did many experiments with small 
> gas turbines using hydrogen as a fuel.  I saw his turbocharger air pump run 
> and I also saw the one in the second article run, and he had a third version 
> he built that I saw run. Each was quite interesting, and the startup 
> procedure did not appear that complex.  It would have been fairly simple to 
> automate start up and shutdown with Jim's designs, however making one of the 
> designs "failsafe" may not be simple.
> 
> Video of his small hydrogen turbine used to be on the calstate LA website, 
> but I have not been able to find them for many years now.  I wish I had 
> downloaded and saved them.  However Virgil Seaman at Cal State LA may be able 
> to provide the video.
> 
> http://www.cleantransportationfunding.org/media_center/newsletter_articles/view/cal_state_l.a.s_new_sustainable_hydrogen_research_facility_looks_to_the_fut
> 
> http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=12791=rtd=1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26q%3Djim%2Bettaro%2Bhydrogen%2Bturbine%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8#search=%22jim%20ettaro%20hydrogen%20turbine%22
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg119615.html Shhesh!  
> Okiebanz has lasted longer than Mercedes veterans or the Dickarde list.
> 
> http://www.calstatela.edu/univ/ppa/newsrel/supereagle2004f.htm
> 
> 
> I would theorize that the small size of Jim's turbines and the hydrogen fuels 
> avoided some of the problems Grant and Dan encountered with larger versions.  
> What is called a Microturbine generator (like a capstone) is in the 30 kW 
> range, so is substantially larger than what Jim was dealing with.
> 
> I don't remember what engine he got the turbocharger from, but it was similar 
> in size to the one on the 1.6L VW turbodiesel.  The final turbine engine I 
> saw (that Jim made) was about 5" dia also.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste 
> heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. 
> Lister engines are super cool too...
> -Curt
> 

And super heavy, and super expensive.  However, they are truly the 240D of the 
engine world, and will be around as long as cockroaches.  Or longer.

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It seems like you've done a bunch of sphere replacements though. I guess with 
two cars...
I think my new VW Golf needs brakes, I haven't done that in a few years.
-Curt
  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Fred Moir 
 
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 2:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
   
Max, I only do serious DIY work under the supervision of factory trained
techs at MBCA tech sessions held at MB dealerships on qweekends.  So far,
no disappointments in nearly 30 years..

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Mao.What indeed?!The local, Lynn MA, people sorted it out for me. Hooray
> for the human touch!
>
> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
>
> > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:46:22 -0500
> > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
> > From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > CC: maontin@gmail.com
> >
> > Fred wrote:
> > > ...and now, instead of bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn,
> they are off on a scenic ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has me
> baffled...
> > >
> >
> > My shipment has gone from Providence to my local USPS and out for
> > delivery yesterday and then it sez it is in Santa Cruz in the same
> > day.  What is rong with this Magic Kingdom USPS these days?
> > mao
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I'd love to but "Mountain man" already volunteered.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 12:45 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

> Why yes Andrew.. what a splendid idea...
>
> Pack up and go live in a war zone, in a mud house, with no running water or
> medical care, under constant threat of death..
>
> Let me know how that works out for you, OK?
>
> hahaa..
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > What a great idea - trading places.  Sort of like an adult exchange
> > service.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Scott wrote:
> > > > Well, here's one non-partisan truth:  The Government can't give
> > anything
> > > to anybody without first taking it from someone else (and taking a cut
> > > along the way).
> > > >
> > >
> > > Definitely sounds non-partisan but it certainly becomes partisan real
> > > quick, doesn't it?
> > > Maybe Gov. has a different mode of accounting.  Maybe there is not a
> > > balance that is drawn against when Gov. give.
> > >
> > > Thinking of which - The new wring-your-hands world fiasco is this
> > > "crisis" of refugees at Europe these days and the Gov. taking that
> > > will be had to transport 10k refugees to USA - no argument we are a
> > > nice place to arrive and there seems to be much here to spread around.
> > > Where do I sign up?  I want my place here to be one of the places that
> > > the refugee comes to live, i.e. we trade places.  I guess someone
> > > needs to pay for shipping bodies across the pond.  Maybe we can trade
> > > body places and make this wring-your-hands world fiasco non-partisan.
> > > mao
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Max, I only do serious DIY work under the supervision of factory trained
techs at MBCA tech sessions held at MB dealerships on qweekends.  So far,
no disappointments in nearly 30 years..

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Mao.What indeed?!The local, Lynn MA, people sorted it out for me. Hooray
> for the human touch!
>
> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
>
> > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:46:22 -0500
> > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
> > From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > CC: maontin@gmail.com
> >
> > Fred wrote:
> > > ...and now, instead of bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn,
> they are off on a scenic ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has me
> baffled...
> > >
> >
> > My shipment has gone from Providence to my local USPS and out for
> > delivery yesterday and then it sez it is in Santa Cruz in the same
> > day.  What is rong with this Magic Kingdom USPS these days?
> > mao
>
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> G wrote:
> 
> Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality,
> there is no cheap turbine engine.

Yet.  I can dream.  If Andrew can dream of a only-solar
powered, I can dream of a practical, small turbine.

> my experience tells me the application is not practical for
> automotive use..

Yup.  So far, there aren't any.  

> ...the start sequence is much more involved
> than "just turning the key". If air flow and fuel
> management are not correct, you will have a hot start and
> melt down of the turbine components. The same in reverse
> for shut down sequence.

Is this any more complex than what the engine management
computers currently manipulate?

> Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to
> the general public, who are virtually incapable of pumping
> their own gas or checking tire pressure.

Too true.  However, I think in Jim's series hybrid, the
"propulsion management computer" would be in charge of
starting and stopping the turbine.  

And while the engineering challenges are immense, looking at
history there are a lot of formerly impossible things
currently being done.  Maybe we just need to motivate some
Honda engineers to take a crack at a 50 hp turbine.  

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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes I am thinking om606 in w124. I stopped learning about mercedes wagons
after the 1987 model year. If you tell me 1995 wagon is a better body, I
will believe you, but when did anyone do a 606 swap on one of those? What
number is that? w201 or 202?

If people are paying 14k for cars like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-/351426194895?rmvSB=true=true=JZXcunjQNT8cx6LAFr%252BUHAFP8KQ%253D_cvip=true=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

then I am in good shape. My car is better than that. Flaring 1st? Puh-leez!
Try a sledgehammer shift into 2nd and tight in every other gear. Revs to
5500, though I am usually not looking at the tach at that point, waiting
for the shift to 2nd...

15k for this one not far from me, and it looks like SLS is messed up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261970523668?rmvSB=true

I guess the carpet pays for itself. I will say that the loop carpet in that
picture looks nothing like what came with my car from the factory, but oh
well. I will put a call in to the Armenians in the valley at GAHH or
whatever it is called.

Thanks for the feedback.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The point being is that it will be mostly MB people who know the car well
> and will often pick nits. I don't expect you'll get top dollar there for
> just that reason, unless the car is really outstanding.
>
> If you want to get top dollar, I would say go to eBay.  People pay stupid
> money for stuff there, and you've also got the "I'm going to beat you even
> though I'm paying far more than it's worth" mentality, too.
>
> Of course, you can always try Craigslist if you want the lowballers, can
> you finance it for me, and the no-shows.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > The last thing I need is a "discerning buyer"...
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> But does the AC BLOW ICE COLD and does it get 40mpg on FREE VEG OIL???
> >>
> >> --R
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 9/11/15 9:55 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> $10k
> 
>  $500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.
> 
>  Dan
> 
>  Sent from my iPad
> 
>  On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> > near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working
> A/C,
>  and
> 
> > roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should
> be an
> > interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a
>  reserve
> 
> > price...
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Karl,
> >>
> >> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
> >>
> >> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are
> > somewhat
> 
> > rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally
> sold
> > for
> 
> > less than 123 wagons.
> >>
> >> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> >> --
> >> Max Dillon
> >> Charleston SC
> >> '87 300TD
> >> '95 E300
> >>
> >> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> >>> thereby
> >>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> >>>
> >>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with
> a
> >>> new
> >>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything
> >>> but
> >>> the
> >>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
> >>> car;
> >>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
> >>> since
> >>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
> >>> back
> >> ___
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> >>
> >> 

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Chryslers Turbine Cars of the '70s

".There were numerous functional challenges and limitations with the 
Turbine Cars, of which sluggish throttle response was the biggest. This is an 
inherent design limitation of turbines, as they need to spin up to over 40,000 
rpm to develop full power. The Turbine Car had a one and a half second lag from 
first pressing the throttle. That could be considered dangerous; it certainly 
would by today’s standards. Throttle lag was noticeable at higher speeds too. 
Performance was reasonable, about 12 seconds 0-60, but substantially less than 
if a 383 V8 were under that sleek hood. One extended test produced an average 
fuel economy of 11.5 mpg. Not terrible, but far from good. A comparably-quick 
conventional car at the time would be expected to achieve about 15 mpg.

The turbine offers the potential for superb longevity, but that depends on the 
extent to which exotic and expensive materials are utilized. Chrysler’s own 
test found that its turbine had a lifespan of “up to 175k miles”. Good for the 
times, but not really exceptional. Chrysler’s own slant sixes would typically 
go that far or further.

The scope of this article is not to fully explore the pros and cons of 
Chrysler’s turbines and their theoretical development potential. Suffice it 
say, the changing climate on emissions and fuel economy played their part in 
finally ending  the turbine program during the seventies. But the biggest 
single hurdle was cost. In Chrysler’s own words: “the technology did not exist 
to produce turbine engines at a price anywhere near competitive to conventional 
internal combustion engines"

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/the-truth-about-why-chrysler-destroyed-the-turbine-cars/


Dan Penoff wrote:
> This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left 
> with “capstone” turbines.  Not sure of the significance, but I do recall the 
> term being used.
> I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 
> 10kW-15kW range.
> They were talking at one time about producing them for use by restaurants 
> like McDonald’s and Burger King to peak shave and provide hot water.
> The projects I worked on that predated this were for the GE “Smart House” in 
> Maryland.  One system we actually built and had operational there consisted 
> of a three cylinder Yanmar diesel converted to natural gas running at 1200 
> RPM.  There was a power management system using high current TRIACs that 
> would allow the loads to be switched between the utility and the generator 
> based on load balancing and peaks.  It was crude by today’s standards but 
> worked well.  And the engine also produced hot water for domestic use through 
> a heat exchanger, too.
> One unit we took out of service had over 12,000 hours on it without ever 
> being shut down or taken offline.  It could have gone a lot longer.  The 
> insides were almost like new.
> Dan
> 
> 
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Craig,
> > 
> > You might find these interesting.  Jim Ettaro did many experiments with 
> > small gas turbines using hydrogen as a fuel.  I saw his turbocharger air 
> > pump run and I also saw the one in the second article run, and he had a 
> > third version he built that I saw run. Each was quite interesting, and the 
> > startup procedure did not appear that complex.  It would have been fairly 
> > simple to automate start up and shutdown with Jim's designs, however making 
> > one of the designs "failsafe" may not be simple.
> > 
> > Video of his small hydrogen turbine used to be on the calstate LA website, 
> > but I have not been able to find them for many years now.  I wish I had 
> > downloaded and saved them.  However Virgil Seaman at Cal State LA may be 
> > able to provide the video.
> > 
> > http://www.cleantransportationfunding.org/media_center/newsletter_articles/view/cal_state_l.a.s_new_sustainable_hydrogen_research_facility_looks_to_the_fut
> > 
> > http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=12791=rtd=1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26q%3Djim%2Bettaro%2Bhydrogen%2Bturbine%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8#search=%22jim%20ettaro%20hydrogen%20turbine%22
> > 
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg119615.html Shhesh!  
> > Okiebanz has lasted longer than Mercedes veterans or the Dickarde list.
> > 
> > http://www.calstatela.edu/univ/ppa/newsrel/supereagle2004f.htm
> > 
> > 
> > I would theorize that the small size of Jim's turbines and the hydrogen 
> > fuels avoided some of the problems Grant and Dan encountered with larger 
> > versions.  What is called a Microturbine generator (like a capstone) is in 
> > the 30 kW range, so is substantially larger than what Jim was dealing with.
> > 
> > I don't remember what engine he got the turbocharger from, but it was 
> > similar in size to the one on the 1.6L VW turbodiesel.  The 

Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

What is the drivetrain from?

No reserve is the way to get people fired up. I sold a rather rusty but
mechanically solid 1963 190dc sedan for almost 3K that way. Just let 'er
rip.

K

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C, and
> roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
> interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a reserve
> price...
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl,
> >
> > Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
> >
> > Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are
> somewhat
> > rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold
> for
> > less than 123 wagons.
> >
> > My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> > --
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > '87 300TD
> > '95 E300
> >
> > On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> > >thereby
> > >reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> > >
> > >Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
> > >new
> > >tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
> > >the
> > >center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
> > >car;
> > >goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
> > >since
> > >82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
> > >back
> > >and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum
> > >leaks.
> > >Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess
> > >that
> > >is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very
> > >good
> > >shape.
> > >
> > >Karl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > >mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> In my case, I didn't realize the springs were different until about
> > >three
> > >> months after I bought them. I sent a message to the eBay seller and
> > >they
> > >> wanted all the details as far as application. When that didn't pan
> > >out,
> > >> they got Lesjofors involved. Despite photographs of the springs side
> > >by
> > >> side clearly showing they were different, Lesjofors just threw their
> > >hands
> > >> up and said I must have had some sort of one-off version of a W140. I
> > >> disputed that by showing them the EPC page with my VIN showing the
> > >proper
> > >> MB part number, which they said it was in their application guide.
> > >>
> > >> Never heard back from them. Fortunately, the seller was really good
> > >about
> > >> taking them back and was involved in the whole process of trying to
> > >sort
> > >> things out.
> > >>
> > >> In my case, the stock spring was flared out towards the top by a good
> > >inch
> > >> or more. The spring that Lesjofors said was the correct one was the
> > >same
> > >> diameter the whole length of the spring.  They even checked the
> > >others they
> > >> had for W140 applications and said that none of them were like mine.
> > >>
> > >> That's been my first foray into MB springs. It just reinforced the
> > >lesson
> > >> of going to the dealer for the part.
> > >>
> > >> Dan
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPad
> > >>
> > >> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> On September 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > >> >>  wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Guess that means I'll buy OE for the 98 S420 that needs front
> > >springs.
> > >> >
> > >> > The Lesjofors catalog info on the ebay listings seems dodgy.
> > >> > For some years, including 97, they list the same spring for the
> > >S500 and
> > >> S420
> > >> > For other years, they list the same spring for S320 and S420.
> > >> > I'd seen comments on Benzworld that the S500 springs were too stiff
> > >and
> > >> made the
> > >> > car ride high.
> > >> > The EPC had 3 springs, and for my car specified the weakest spring
> > >with
> > >> 3 nub or
> > >> > 4 nub spacers.
> > >> >
> > >> > So I bought the "S320" springs on eBay (which were $50-60 cheaper
> > >than
> > >> the
> > >> > "S500") and 4 nub
> > >> > spacers from the dealer.
> > >> > The result was the only bad spring experience I've ever had in my
> > >life,
> > >> not that
> > >> > I've
> > >> > replaced many coil springs. Maybe I should have used JC Whitney
> > >springs
> > >> like I
> > >> > did when I put
> > >> > the trailer hitch on my Plymouth Horizon. I think I went to
> > >Carquest
> > >> when my '95
> > >> > Taurus broke
> > >> > a spring.
> > >> >
> > >> > I do still need to 

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Grant wrote:
> Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
> components are expensive.

Address the story heard recently that GE has created a 3D printed turbine.
Thanks.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 11/09/2015 3:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste 
heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. 
Lister engines are super cool too...
-Curt



A lot of effort and trouble.
I participate in another list where one of the fellows went through that 
experience. He did it for a while but has given it up.
He is in a fairly warm climate too - Victoria BC so not trying to do it 
in a spot like here on the prairies.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 11/09/2015 3:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

On Sep 11, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste 
heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. 
Lister engines are super cool too...
-Curt


And super heavy, and super expensive.  However, they are truly the 240D of the 
engine world, and will be around as long as cockroaches.  Or longer.

Dan




But made in India and the quality is questionable.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Grant wrote:
> Pack up and go live in a war zone, in a mud house, with no running water or
> medical care, under constant threat of death..

Yes.
And trade that with someone that lives here now.
Give.  That's the spirit.
Thinking about it, the fear that we are supposed to have by gov't
edict, the refugee would need assistance from me prior to me actually
trading places.  Learn the language, develop skill, earn rent/food.  I
don't want more govt sponsored lives here for the rest of you.  And I
want to ferret out as best as possible the fear factor and learn the
human factor.  Govt pogroms certainly are failing at both but I bet
we-the-people efforts can succeed.
It was me, Grant - not Andrew.  Don't worry - it ain't gonna happen.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--R wrote:
> ..I hope that at least some of them are able to open some
> restaurants to introduce summadat stuffs with all the taxpayer free shiite
> they are getting.

As Scott pointed out - there ain't no free.  Trade places.  I been
here all my life.  Trade place is intended to be permanent, not
vacation.  Someone else can learn the hatred of others and fear that
we love to propagate.  And I can learn how to eat the food there in
war wreck that you want to eat here in the comfort of luxury with fear
and wealth with hatred.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Dodge (well Chrysler I presume) made some kind of a turbine engine car way back 
in the '60s. Apparently it was actually quite nice to drive. I forget where I 
read the article about it, probably a magazine, it was awhile ago.
All the issues related to startup and shutdown can be easily computer 
controlled, think of all the stuff the computer does in a Prius anyway...
-Curt
  From: G Mann via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: G Mann  
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 12:56 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis 
h*ters]
   
So sorry to bring rain to the parade..

Reality is like that.  The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
replacement for use in motorcars.

The theory can be raised that mankind is inherently lazy. Horses, for
example, require incredible effort to feed, contain, train, and tame. Yet,
for centuries, they were the method of transport because humans would
rather ride than walk..

Go Green, Be Clean as long as it's easy..

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
>> turbine engine.
>>
>> Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of
>> turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
>> tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..
>>
>> Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
>> compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any
>> size.
>> Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
>> components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will run
>> you in the range of $20,000.
>>
>> Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
>> turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you
>> will
>> have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
>> reverse for shut down sequence.
>>
>> Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
>> public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
>> tire pressure.
>>
>> Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.
>>
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Could it be that when theory meets real world, sometimes the theory does
> not stand up?  Naa, couldn't be..
>
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yah wagons only for me. Very practical cars. I have my eye on one.

K

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>
> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat
> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold for
> less than 123 wagons.
>
> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> >thereby
> >reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> >
> >Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
> >new
> >tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
> >the
> >center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
> >car;
> >goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
> >since
> >82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
> >back
> >and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum
> >leaks.
> >Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess
> >that
> >is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very
> >good
> >shape.
> >
> >Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In my case, I didn't realize the springs were different until about
> >three
> >> months after I bought them. I sent a message to the eBay seller and
> >they
> >> wanted all the details as far as application. When that didn't pan
> >out,
> >> they got Lesjofors involved. Despite photographs of the springs side
> >by
> >> side clearly showing they were different, Lesjofors just threw their
> >hands
> >> up and said I must have had some sort of one-off version of a W140. I
> >> disputed that by showing them the EPC page with my VIN showing the
> >proper
> >> MB part number, which they said it was in their application guide.
> >>
> >> Never heard back from them. Fortunately, the seller was really good
> >about
> >> taking them back and was involved in the whole process of trying to
> >sort
> >> things out.
> >>
> >> In my case, the stock spring was flared out towards the top by a good
> >inch
> >> or more. The spring that Lesjofors said was the correct one was the
> >same
> >> diameter the whole length of the spring.  They even checked the
> >others they
> >> had for W140 applications and said that none of them were like mine.
> >>
> >> That's been my first foray into MB springs. It just reinforced the
> >lesson
> >> of going to the dealer for the part.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On September 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Guess that means I'll buy OE for the 98 S420 that needs front
> >springs.
> >> >
> >> > The Lesjofors catalog info on the ebay listings seems dodgy.
> >> > For some years, including 97, they list the same spring for the
> >S500 and
> >> S420
> >> > For other years, they list the same spring for S320 and S420.
> >> > I'd seen comments on Benzworld that the S500 springs were too stiff
> >and
> >> made the
> >> > car ride high.
> >> > The EPC had 3 springs, and for my car specified the weakest spring
> >with
> >> 3 nub or
> >> > 4 nub spacers.
> >> >
> >> > So I bought the "S320" springs on eBay (which were $50-60 cheaper
> >than
> >> the
> >> > "S500") and 4 nub
> >> > spacers from the dealer.
> >> > The result was the only bad spring experience I've ever had in my
> >life,
> >> not that
> >> > I've
> >> > replaced many coil springs. Maybe I should have used JC Whitney
> >springs
> >> like I
> >> > did when I put
> >> > the trailer hitch on my Plymouth Horizon. I think I went to
> >Carquest
> >> when my '95
> >> > Taurus broke
> >> > a spring.
> >> >
> >> > I do still need to contact Lesjofors and see what, if anything,
> >they
> >> will do. If
> >> > they tell
> >> > me I have counterfeit springs, I'm going to kick myself $113 worth
> >for
> >> not doing
> >> > something
> >> > through Paypal/eBay in a timely fashion.
> >> >
> >> > I contacted the eBay seller, who wanted specific info on my car to
> >check
> >> and see
> >> > if I bought
> >> > the "right" springs. I sent him the whole story, beginning with the
> >> model, year,
> >> > and VIN.
> >> > He responded that I sent him a blank message. I replied again, and
> >he
> >> never
> >> > responded.
> >> > Looking back on it, I wish I'd filed an eBay complaint at that
> >point.
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >> > To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I suspect he’s talking about the legacy Listers, not modern day ones.

The “originals” Listers were practically machined out of a solid block of 
steel.  You couldn’t kill them.  20,000 hours was not unheard of without any 
service other than basic maintenance.

I used to work for a guy years ago who was big into supporting missionaries in 
third world countries, like Africa.  We would build up generators using a 
Lister ST-1, a single cylinder Lister, and a 3kW-4kW alternator (generator) on 
it.  Nothing more than that and a hand crank and hose to go into the Jerry can. 
 We would weld them up into steel barrels for transport and tack weld a chisel 
on the outside of the barrel.

When they arrived at their destination the locals would break the chisel off 
and chisel the barrel open to get the generator out.  We learned this the hard 
way, as the first couple we shipped never made it as we just closed the sealing 
strap on the drum with a shipping seal. When they arrived the drum would be 
empty….

Dan


> On Sep 11, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 11/09/2015 3:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste 
>>> heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings 
>>> there. Lister engines are super cool too...
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>> And super heavy, and super expensive.  However, they are truly the 240D of 
>> the engine world, and will be around as long as cockroaches.  Or longer.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
> But made in India and the quality is questionable.
> 
> RB
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

What is with all the slammo wagon spring mutilators? That thing looks like
it would shake your eye teeth out.

If someone would actually race one, I could see the point. But that thing
isn't even a diesel. Pshaw.

Did they really run the w124 from 1987 through to 1995? Holy cow that is a
long time.

Karl

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:11 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Here's what you need, Karl:
>
>
> http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/2443121-w124-estate-lowered.html#post12790073
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:14 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> thereby
> > reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> >
> > Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a new
> > tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
> the
> > center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast car;
> > goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic since
> > 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in back
> > and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum leaks.
> > Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess
> that
> > is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very good
> > shape.
> >
> > Karl
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

In 1893, newspapers reported the discovery of a hodag in Rhinelander, 
Wisconsin. It had "the head of a frog, the grinning face of a giant elephant, 
thick short legs set off by huge claws, the back of a dinosaur, and a long tail 
with spears at the end". The reports were instigated by well-known Wisconsin 
land surveyor, timber cruiser and prankster Eugene Shepard,[1] who rounded up a 
group of local people to capture the animal.[2] The group reported that they 
needed to use dynamite to kill the beast.
www.wikipedia/hodag

A photograph of the remains of the charred beast was released to the media. It 
was "the fiercest, strangest, most frightening monster ever to set razor sharp 
claws on the earth. It became extinct after its main food source, all white 
bulldogs, became scarce in the area

> Having lived in southeast Wisconsin for eight years, I never heard of such a 
> thing.  The wife used to go to Tomahawk regularly, as Harley-Davidson’s 
> fiberglass plant was there, but she never mentioned anything like this.  I’ll 
> have to ask her.
> Maybe their range wasn’t that far from Rhinelander?
> Dan

OK Don wrote:
> >> We definitely have Igarots eating our private asphalt road here at the
> >> airpark. Where do we get Hodags?

Meade Dillon wrote: 
> >>> Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt 
> >>> from the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in WI 
> >>> the
> >>> edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and create 
> >>> more work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots except 
> >>> the road crew contractors. 
> >>> Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This is 
> >>> what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Grant wrote:
> Go Green, Be Clean as long as it's easy..

Too true!!
mao

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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Karl,

Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.  

Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat 
rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold for 
less than 123 wagons.

My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>thereby
>reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>
>Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>new
>tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
>the
>center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>car;
>goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>since
>82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>back
>and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum
>leaks.
>Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess
>that
>is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very
>good
>shape.
>
>Karl
>
>
>
>On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> In my case, I didn't realize the springs were different until about
>three
>> months after I bought them. I sent a message to the eBay seller and
>they
>> wanted all the details as far as application. When that didn't pan
>out,
>> they got Lesjofors involved. Despite photographs of the springs side
>by
>> side clearly showing they were different, Lesjofors just threw their
>hands
>> up and said I must have had some sort of one-off version of a W140. I
>> disputed that by showing them the EPC page with my VIN showing the
>proper
>> MB part number, which they said it was in their application guide.
>>
>> Never heard back from them. Fortunately, the seller was really good
>about
>> taking them back and was involved in the whole process of trying to
>sort
>> things out.
>>
>> In my case, the stock spring was flared out towards the top by a good
>inch
>> or more. The spring that Lesjofors said was the correct one was the
>same
>> diameter the whole length of the spring.  They even checked the
>others they
>> had for W140 applications and said that none of them were like mine.
>>
>> That's been my first foray into MB springs. It just reinforced the
>lesson
>> of going to the dealer for the part.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On September 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Guess that means I'll buy OE for the 98 S420 that needs front
>springs.
>> >
>> > The Lesjofors catalog info on the ebay listings seems dodgy.
>> > For some years, including 97, they list the same spring for the
>S500 and
>> S420
>> > For other years, they list the same spring for S320 and S420.
>> > I'd seen comments on Benzworld that the S500 springs were too stiff
>and
>> made the
>> > car ride high.
>> > The EPC had 3 springs, and for my car specified the weakest spring
>with
>> 3 nub or
>> > 4 nub spacers.
>> >
>> > So I bought the "S320" springs on eBay (which were $50-60 cheaper
>than
>> the
>> > "S500") and 4 nub
>> > spacers from the dealer.
>> > The result was the only bad spring experience I've ever had in my
>life,
>> not that
>> > I've
>> > replaced many coil springs. Maybe I should have used JC Whitney
>springs
>> like I
>> > did when I put
>> > the trailer hitch on my Plymouth Horizon. I think I went to
>Carquest
>> when my '95
>> > Taurus broke
>> > a spring.
>> >
>> > I do still need to contact Lesjofors and see what, if anything,
>they
>> will do. If
>> > they tell
>> > me I have counterfeit springs, I'm going to kick myself $113 worth
>for
>> not doing
>> > something
>> > through Paypal/eBay in a timely fashion.
>> >
>> > I contacted the eBay seller, who wanted specific info on my car to
>check
>> and see
>> > if I bought
>> > the "right" springs. I sent him the whole story, beginning with the
>> model, year,
>> > and VIN.
>> > He responded that I sent him a blank message. I replied again, and
>he
>> never
>> > responded.
>> > Looking back on it, I wish I'd filed an eBay complaint at that
>point.
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>

Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I received mine on time Wednesday.  They are awesome, made in Germany
Corteco accumulators purchased from an ebay seller that Rich Hawkins
recommended.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was expecting my accumulators today or tomorrow. However they made it
> from Windsor CT. to Springfield MA in only 2 days, and now, instead of
> bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn, they are off on a scenic
> ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has me baffled, confused even.I
> knocked over the TV and broke it. These things come in threes, so I'm off
> to bed!And to all, a good night.
>
> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

For Kaleb you change the ignition lock so it doesn't match any of the others. 
The car is $500, the key is $10,000...

-Curt
  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Dan Penoff  
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] wagon build
   
$10k

$500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.

Dan

Sent from my iPad



> On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C, and
> roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
> interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a reserve
> price...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Karl,
>> 
>> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>> 
>> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat
>> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold for
>> less than 123 wagons.
>> 
>> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>>> thereby
>>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>>> 
>>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>>> new
>>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
>>> the
>>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>>> car;
>>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>>> since
>>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>>> back

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Re: [MBZ] Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

$1.80 for diesel??  Time to emigrate!

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Sure hope you didn't run into any Hodags or Igarots, passing so close to
>> Rhinelander...
>>
>> You mention some places I haven't been since my youth, I'm sure the roads
>> are better now.
>>
>> Once in the '70s, we set out for summer vacation, probably going to drive
>> from Ogema WI to northern MN to visit grandparents.  My father wanted to
>> drive his really nice Adenauer.  We got a few miles down Highway 86, and
>> hit some nasty road construction; the pavement was gone and all traffic was
>> squeezed onto rough loose gravel.  My dad listened to that gravel beating
>> the underside of the car for about 5 seconds, stopped and did a U-turn, got
>> in a cursing match with the road crew for driving in their road bed during
>> the turn, and went straight back home.  We unpacked the Benz and loaded
>> into some beater American iron, and took that instead.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>>
>
>
> Definitely encountered hodags.  Went right through downtown Rhinelander
> both ways.  Got chased by some hodags while I chased others.  It was
> potatofest in Rhinelander.  Huge white tent pitched by Trigs.  We don't
> take the bypass.
>
> Sadly Cirilli's has been closed for quite a few years, and now they are
> tearing down the building for "progress."   I loved Cirilli's, your SWMBO
> would have liked it too.  Great place to buy Italian pasta, great olive oil
> and other goodies.  I worked there one summer. Mamma Cirilli said my
> Italian bread was the closest to "home" of any she had in her long life the
> USA.  I consider that to be the best compliment I've ever received.
> Italian bread needs good flour, dry dough, and lots of time, along with TLC
> and patience.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C, and
roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a reserve
price...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>
> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat
> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold for
> less than 123 wagons.
>
> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> >thereby
> >reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> >
> >Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
> >new
> >tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
> >the
> >center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
> >car;
> >goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
> >since
> >82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
> >back
> >and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum
> >leaks.
> >Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess
> >that
> >is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very
> >good
> >shape.
> >
> >Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In my case, I didn't realize the springs were different until about
> >three
> >> months after I bought them. I sent a message to the eBay seller and
> >they
> >> wanted all the details as far as application. When that didn't pan
> >out,
> >> they got Lesjofors involved. Despite photographs of the springs side
> >by
> >> side clearly showing they were different, Lesjofors just threw their
> >hands
> >> up and said I must have had some sort of one-off version of a W140. I
> >> disputed that by showing them the EPC page with my VIN showing the
> >proper
> >> MB part number, which they said it was in their application guide.
> >>
> >> Never heard back from them. Fortunately, the seller was really good
> >about
> >> taking them back and was involved in the whole process of trying to
> >sort
> >> things out.
> >>
> >> In my case, the stock spring was flared out towards the top by a good
> >inch
> >> or more. The spring that Lesjofors said was the correct one was the
> >same
> >> diameter the whole length of the spring.  They even checked the
> >others they
> >> had for W140 applications and said that none of them were like mine.
> >>
> >> That's been my first foray into MB springs. It just reinforced the
> >lesson
> >> of going to the dealer for the part.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On September 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Guess that means I'll buy OE for the 98 S420 that needs front
> >springs.
> >> >
> >> > The Lesjofors catalog info on the ebay listings seems dodgy.
> >> > For some years, including 97, they list the same spring for the
> >S500 and
> >> S420
> >> > For other years, they list the same spring for S320 and S420.
> >> > I'd seen comments on Benzworld that the S500 springs were too stiff
> >and
> >> made the
> >> > car ride high.
> >> > The EPC had 3 springs, and for my car specified the weakest spring
> >with
> >> 3 nub or
> >> > 4 nub spacers.
> >> >
> >> > So I bought the "S320" springs on eBay (which were $50-60 cheaper
> >than
> >> the
> >> > "S500") and 4 nub
> >> > spacers from the dealer.
> >> > The result was the only bad spring experience I've ever had in my
> >life,
> >> not that
> >> > I've
> >> > replaced many coil springs. Maybe I should have used JC Whitney
> >springs
> >> like I
> >> > did when I put
> >> > the trailer hitch on my Plymouth Horizon. I think I went to
> >Carquest
> >> when my '95
> >> > Taurus broke
> >> > a spring.
> >> >
> >> > I do still need to contact Lesjofors and see what, if anything,
> >they
> >> will do. If
> >> > they tell
> >> > me I have counterfeit springs, I'm going to kick myself $113 worth
> >for
> >> not doing
> >> > something
> >> > through Paypal/eBay in a timely fashion.
> >> >
> >> > I contacted the eBay seller, who wanted specific info on my car to
> >check
> >> and see
> >> > if I bought
> >> > the "right" springs. I sent him the whole story, beginning with the
> >> model, year,
> >> > and VIN.
> >> > He responded that I sent him a blank message. I replied again, and
> >he
> 

Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

$10k

$500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C, and
> roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
> interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a reserve
> price...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Karl,
>> 
>> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>> 
>> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat
>> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold for
>> less than 123 wagons.
>> 
>> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>>> thereby
>>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>>> 
>>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>>> new
>>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
>>> the
>>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>>> car;
>>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>>> since
>>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>>> back

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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> $10k
>
> $500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> > near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C,
> and
> > roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
> > interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a
> reserve
> > price...
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Karl,
> >>
> >> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
> >>
> >> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are
> somewhat
> >> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold
> for
> >> less than 123 wagons.
> >>
> >> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> >> --
> >> Max Dillon
> >> Charleston SC
> >> '87 300TD
> >> '95 E300
> >>
> >> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
> >>> thereby
> >>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> >>>
> >>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
> >>> new
> >>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
> >>> the
> >>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
> >>> car;
> >>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
> >>> since
> >>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
> >>> back
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] God's plan for aging

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Fred Moir wrote:

> I'm becoming an olde coot.

> 1) Distinguished: Geezer who wears suits, ties, shiny shoes, and is well  
> groomed most of the time.
> 
> 2) Duffer: Golfer of ordinary ability: Includes geezers.
> 
> 3) Codger: old-fashioned or eccentric geezer.
> 
> 4) Geezer: Old man.
 
> 5) Coot: Eccentric geezer.

(Definitions from Oxford Dictionary)


> Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
 
> > Gerry wrote:
> > Someone mentioned that there are several of us geezers on the list (those 
> > over about 75 years) in a somewhat critical tone. Younger people (those 
> > under 65) do find us geezers; with our various deficiencies; threatening or 
> > disturbing. Just so they can understand why we have these unique habits, 
> > here are explanations of why the Creator designed us this way:  
> > 
> > > > God's plan for aging
> > > > Most seniors never get enough exercise. In His wisdom God decreed that 
> > > > seniors become forgetful so they would have to search for their 
> > > > glasses, keys and other things thus doing more walking. And God looked 
> > > > down and saw that it was good.
> > > > Then God saw there was another need. In His wisdom He made seniors 
> > > > lose coordination so they would drop things requiring them to bend, 
> > > > reach & stretch. And God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > > > Then God considered the function of bladders and decided seniors would 
> > > > have additional calls of nature requiring more trips to the bathroom, 
> > > > thus providing more exercise. God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > > > So if you find as you age, you are getting up and down more, remember 
> > > > it’s God’s will. It is all in your best interest even though you 
> > > > mutter under your breath.
> > 
> > > > Nine Important Facts To Remember As We Grow Older
> > > > #9 Death is the number 1 killer in the world.
> > > > #8 Life is sexually transmitted.
> > > > #7 Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
> > > > #6 Men have 2 motivations: hunger and hanky panky, and they can't tell 
> > > > them apart. If you see a gleam in his eyes, make him a sandwich.
> > > > #5 Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day. Teach a person to 
> > > > use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks, months, maybe 
> > > > years.
> > > > #4 Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the 
> > > > hospital, dying of nothing.
> > > > #3 All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no 
> > > > attention to criticism.
> > > > #2 In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the 
> > > > world is weird, and people take Prozac to make it normal.
> > > > #1 Life is like a jar of jalapeno peppers. What you do today may be a 
> > > > burning issue tomorrow.
> > 
> > 
> > We geezers allow for the shortsightedness of youth (those under 65) who 
> > assiduously ignore the fact that in a few short years they will be geezers 
> > too.
> > Gerry
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus Database: 4419/10622 - Release Date: 09/11/15
> 
> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Ooooh, an invisible car...
-Curt

  From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin  
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:08 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Very rare car
   
Somebody needs to jump on this quick

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Igarots are very shy and only come out at night to nibble the asphalt from
the edges of the road, and are very rarely seen.  This is why in WI the
edges of the asphalt roads start to crumble and fall apart and create more
work for the road construction crews.  Nobody likes igarots except the road
crew contractors.

Hodags eat the igarots, and are thus are seen even more rarely.  (This is
what my father tolds us when we were knee high to a grasshopper...)

Rhinelander has adopted the Hodag as the town mascot.  More Hodags = less
Igarots = longer lasting roads?

https://www.google.com/search?q=rhinelander+hodag=isch=u=univ=X=0CDwQsARqFQoTCKq3tKas78cCFQyMDQodmIEHdw=1854=1081


-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:51:58 -0500 Curly McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > >Sure hope you didn't run into any Hodags or Igarots, passing so
> > >close to Rhinelander...
> >
> > Definitely encountered hodags.  Went right through downtown
> > Rhinelander both ways.  Got chased by some hodags while I chased
> > others.  It was potatofest in Rhinelander.  Huge white tent pitched
> > by Trigs.  We don't take the bypass.
>
> For those of us not in the know, what are Hodags and Igarots?
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Alles.Last night I said that these things come in threes. Well #3 
was that this morning the olde and rusty '87 300TD was stone dead, 
no lights, no start, again.Broken ground strap. Wait for it. As I 
was replacing the ground strap, it came to my attention that the 
whole cap of the shock tower was moving in unison with my wrench. 
Sh*t!It is almost adrift, which explains the occasional shimmy in 
the front end.Visions of flying off the road with my grand daughter 
yesterday played in my head.Maybe somebody up there is trying to get 
my attention! Thank you!
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.			  
___


I had that happen in my old 110 rustbucket 190Dc winter car.  I took 
pieces of sheet metal, and self drilling sheet metal screws and 
stabilized the shock tower.  I drove it that way a couple more years 
until the car was permanently retired.   The 124, where the strut is 
also the suspension may be a little more tricky, but I am sure you 
can manufacture something to keep the strut bearing in place, M/L.


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Definitely not pointless - Toymotors is selling a lot of them - profit is
the point.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Dimitri sez:  Was thinking the same thing. Prius is a pointless turd.
>>
>
> Naa, not pointless.  It allows them to feel all pious and holier than
> thou...  That's the point of having one.
>
> (Gerry excepted)
>



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The aspect of the current refugee situation which amazes me is the media
focus on the refugees while completely ignoring the situation that is
creating the problem.  This is like focusing totally on burn treatments
while refusing to put out (or even acknowledge) the fire.  

> -Original Message-
> From:  Thomas via Mercedes
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 3:04 PM
> 
> Here in SC there is apparently some under-the-radar resettlement of some
> sort of "refugees" "immigrants" or "migrants" or something, being
> coordinated by some "religious" organizations that stand to make a pile of
> dinars off all the free shiite that is being given away.
> 
> http://www.fitsnews.com/2015/09/11/upstate-refugee-resettlement-violates-
> state-law/
> sorta explains they have this cover so they can appeal to the members of
the
> bobble belt up in Sparkletown (which is like the little thing that sticks
in the
> belt hole in the bobble belt -- the total center of it).
> It was kept muy quiet but somehow someone caught wind of it and got a lot
of
> the local crazies exercised.  I'm not sure how the local "disadvantaged"
> community will take to these new folks coming in and getting mo free
shiites
> than they get, causes a fair amount of friction among the gimmedats.
> 
> These same "religious" groups will be assisting with the Syrian "refugees"
> "immigrants" or "migrants" or something and doling out the free shiite to
> them, while taking their cut for "administrative" purposes.
> 
> I think the food from Syria and Lebanon and places like that is pretty
tasty
> stuff, so I hope that at least some of them are able to open some
restaurants
> to introduce summadat stuffs with all the taxpayer free shiite they are
getting.
> I like that wahhabi sauce too, clears out the sciences.
> 
> --R (It's a sunni day in South Carolina!)
> 
> 



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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:38:48 -0700
Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:

> > What kind of turbine would one use?
> 
> One that doesn't exist yet!
> 
> > Any idea where to buy one?
> 
> In the future, I hope.
> 
> > Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no 
> > cheap
> > turbine engine.
> 
> They're not cheap, so we don't sell a lot of them.  We don't sell
> a lot of them, so there's no incentive to do the development to
> make them cheap.  Circular problem.
> 
> I still maintain that, if the materials and manufacturing received
> even a fraction of the effort that has gone into Otto engines, small
> (20HP or so) turbines would be highly attractive.  And _very_ well
> suited for series hybrid applications.  (Not 'automotive' applications.
> That term has too many implicit assumptions.)
> 
> > How would one gear it down to useful RPM?
> 
> By running at high RPM's, and taking the output as 3-phase electricity
> not shaft horsepower, the thing would be relatively cheap and quite
> efficient.  Yes, there would be some significant development costs.
> But it would be small, efficient, hot, quiet, and reliable.  Not overly
> cheap, but those other factors would make up for it.  And it (with
> its battery pack and charge controller) would make a heck of a
> jellybean component that would have many other uses, such
> as a genny for an RV, emergency power, etc.
> 
> If it existed, we would sell millions of the things.
> 
> -- Jim
_

You're sitting in a rush hour traffic jam.

The turbine is running at max and the current is going into the battery(s).

The batteries fill up and the turbine shuts down.

The traffic inches forward a few car lengths and the batteries drive the car 
forward to keep up with traffic.

The traffic starts moving at normal speed and the batteries propel the car 
until exhausted. Then the turbine spools up, drives the car, and charges the 
batteries.

You would probably need more battery capacity so the turbine would spool up and 
down less often than a typical hybrid cars engine.

Based on how the Prius operates, it would very likely work, and with a few 
tweaks of a leased Prius control system (which is currently leased by Ford, GM, 
and several foreign manufacturers) the cost could be kept low for all but the 
turbine.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Here's what you need, Karl:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/2443121-w124-estate-lowered.html#post12790073

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:14 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and thereby
> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
> 
> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a new
> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but the
> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast car;
> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic since
> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in back
> and passenger front. Headliner is fine, sunroof manual, no vacuum leaks.
> Basically totally functional but no blow from center vents so I guess that
> is next. AC cold, new controller. Yada yada. You get the idea; very good
> shape.
> 
> Karl

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Just so happens that I had opportunity to inspect then drive, for a short
test drive, one of the Dodge Bros/ Chrysler turbine powered car, back when
it came out.

Local dealer had one in for a show and tell demonstration, with all the
"This is the Wave of the Future" hoopla..

It was incredibly noisy, produced exhaust heat that really was not managed
well, and required a college degree to start and shut down. But,, all that
said, once running, the power far exceeded the car design and the brakes
were so inadequate I made the comment it needed a drogue chute to slow it
down.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/the-truth-about-why-chrysler-destroyed-the-turbine-cars/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZUXcJf_8Lc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWev6JTI6S0

These 3 links above should fulfill your daily requirement for Auto Porn,
and give you some insight into the use of turbines in cars..

Pretty sure the car I drove was one of those crushed.

Grant...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Dodge (well Chrysler I presume) made some kind of a turbine engine car way
> back in the '60s. Apparently it was actually quite nice to drive. I forget
> where I read the article about it, probably a magazine, it was awhile ago.
> All the issues related to startup and shutdown can be easily computer
> controlled, think of all the stuff the computer does in a Prius anyway...
> -Curt
>   From: G Mann via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: G Mann 
>  Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 12:56 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf
> Pruis h*ters]
>
> So sorry to bring rain to the parade..
>
> Reality is like that.  The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
> pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
> replacement for use in motorcars.
>
> The theory can be raised that mankind is inherently lazy. Horses, for
> example, require incredible effort to feed, contain, train, and tame. Yet,
> for centuries, they were the method of transport because humans would
> rather ride than walk..
>
> Go Green, Be Clean as long as it's easy..
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap
> >> turbine engine.
> >>
> >> Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use
> of
> >> turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience
> >> tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..
> >>
> >> Expensive to build due to the high speed of operation and complicated
> >> compressor and turbine wheel required to make a turbine engine, of any
> >> size.
> >> Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational
> >> components are expensive. A set of turbine wheels for a small APU will
> run
> >> you in the range of $20,000.
> >>
> >> Couple with that, the start sequence is much more involved than "just
> >> turning the key". If air flow and fuel management are not correct, you
> >> will
> >> have a hot start and melt down of the turbine components. The same in
> >> reverse for shut down sequence.
> >>
> >> Complicated operation requirements would not bode well to the general
> >> public, who are virtually incapable of pumping their own gas or checking
> >> tire pressure.
> >>
> >> Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.
> >>
> >
> > Hmmm,
> >
> > Could it be that when theory meets real world, sometimes the theory does
> > not stand up?  Naa, couldn't be..
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Blind eunuchs.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:10 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

> It is the extremely rare invisible version. Only two were built.. the other
> one was parked and never found again...
>
> No photo record of the build line exists, it is rumored only blind workers
> were used...
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > That's an amazing car - made in Stockholm Germany.  It's a stealth model
> > that cannot be photographed, either.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Somebody needs to jump on this quick
> > >
> > > http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

What kind of turbine would one use?


One that doesn't exist yet!


Any idea where to buy one?


In the future, I hope.

Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no 
cheap

turbine engine.


They're not cheap, so we don't sell a lot of them.  We don't sell
a lot of them, so there's no incentive to do the development to
make them cheap.  Circular problem.

I still maintain that, if the materials and manufacturing received
even a fraction of the effort that has gone into Otto engines, small
(20HP or so) turbines would be highly attractive.  And _very_ well
suited for series hybrid applications.  (Not 'automotive' applications.
That term has too many implicit assumptions.)


How would one gear it down to useful RPM?


By running at high RPM's, and taking the output as 3-phase electricity
not shaft horsepower, the thing would be relatively cheap and quite
efficient.  Yes, there would be some significant development costs.
But it would be small, efficient, hot, quiet, and reliable.  Not overly
cheap, but those other factors would make up for it.  And it (with
its battery pack and charge controller) would make a heck of a
jellybean component that would have many other uses, such
as a genny for an RV, emergency power, etc.

If it existed, we would sell millions of the things.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Does it also have the very rare zundfogel engine?

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

That's an amazing car - made in Stockholm Germany.  It's a stealth model
that cannot be photographed, either.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Somebody needs to jump on this quick
> 
> http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] God's plan for aging

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

I'm becoming an olde coot.
1) Distinguished

2) Duffer

3) Codger

4) Geezer 
5) Coot
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 22:25:42 -0400
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] God's plan for aging
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: arche...@embarqmail.com
> 
> Gerry wrote:
> Someone mentioned that there are several of us geezers on the list (those 
> over about 75 years) in a somewhat critical tone. Younger people (those under 
> 65) do find us geezers; with our various deficiencies; threatening or 
> disturbing. Just so they can understand why we have these unique habits, here 
> are explanations of why the Creator designed us this way:  
> 
> > > God's plan for aging
> > > Most seniors never get enough exercise. In His wisdom God decreed that 
> > > seniors become forgetful so they would have to search for their 
> > > glasses, keys and other things thus doing more walking. And God looked 
> > > down and saw that it was good.
> > > Then God saw there was another need. In His wisdom He made seniors 
> > > lose coordination so they would drop things requiring them to bend, 
> > > reach & stretch. And God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > > Then God considered the function of bladders and decided seniors would 
> > > have additional calls of nature requiring more trips to the bathroom, 
> > > thus providing more exercise. God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > > So if you find as you age, you are getting up and down more, remember 
> > > it’s God’s will. It is all in your best interest even though you 
> > > mutter under your breath.
> 
> > > Nine Important Facts To Remember As We Grow Older
> > > #9 Death is the number 1 killer in the world.
> > > #8 Life is sexually transmitted.
> > > #7 Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
> > > #6 Men have 2 motivations: hunger and hanky panky, and they can't tell 
> > > them apart. If you see a gleam in his eyes, make him a sandwich.
> > > #5 Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day. Teach a person to 
> > > use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks, months, maybe 
> > > years.
> > > #4 Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the 
> > > hospital, dying of nothing.
> > > #3 All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no 
> > > attention to criticism.
> > > #2 In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the 
> > > world is weird, and people take Prozac to make it normal.
> > > #1 Life is like a jar of jalapeno peppers. What you do today may be a 
> > > burning issue tomorrow.
> 
> 
> We geezers allow for the shortsightedness of youth (those under 65) who 
> assiduously ignore the fact that in a few short years they will be geezers 
> too.
> Gerry
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I would be willing to bet it has the rare Zundfolge engine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:10 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> It is the extremely rare invisible version. Only two were built.. the other
> one was parked and never found again...
> 
> No photo record of the build line exists, it is rumored only blind workers
> were used...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> That's an amazing car - made in Stockholm Germany.  It's a stealth model
>> that cannot be photographed, either.
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Somebody needs to jump on this quick
>>> 
>>> http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>> 
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[MBZ] Very rare car

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Somebody needs to jump on this quick

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'63 Chrysler.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "archer75--- via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis 
h*ters]





Chryslers Turbine Cars of the '70s

".There were numerous functional challenges and limitations with the 
Turbine Cars, of which sluggish throttle response was the biggest. This is 
an inherent design limitation of turbines, as they need to spin up to over 
40,000 rpm to develop full power. The Turbine Car had a one and a half 
second lag from first pressing the throttle. That could be considered 
dangerous; it certainly would by today’s standards. Throttle lag was 
noticeable at higher speeds too. Performance was reasonable, about 12 
seconds 0-60, but substantially less than if a 383 V8 were under that 
sleek hood. One extended test produced an average fuel economy of 11.5 
mpg. Not terrible, but far from good. A comparably-quick conventional car 
at the time would be expected to achieve about 15 mpg.


The turbine offers the potential for superb longevity, but that depends on 
the extent to which exotic and expensive materials are utilized. Chrysler’s 
own test found that its turbine had a lifespan of “up to 175k miles”. Good 
for the times, but not really exceptional. Chrysler’s own slant sixes 
would typically go that far or further.


The scope of this article is not to fully explore the pros and cons of 
Chrysler’s turbines and their theoretical development potential. Suffice 
it say, the changing climate on emissions and fuel economy played their 
part in finally ending  the turbine program during the seventies. But the 
biggest single hurdle was cost. In Chrysler’s own words: “the technology 
did not exist to produce turbine engines at a price anywhere near 
competitive to conventional internal combustion engines"


http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/the-truth-about-why-chrysler-destroyed-the-turbine-cars/


Dan Penoff wrote:
This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left 
with “capstone” turbines.  Not sure of the significance, but I do recall 
the term being used.
I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 
10kW-15kW range.
They were talking at one time about producing them for use by restaurants 
like McDonald’s and Burger King to peak shave and provide hot water.
The projects I worked on that predated this were for the GE “Smart House” 
in Maryland.  One system we actually built and had operational there 
consisted of a three cylinder Yanmar diesel converted to natural gas 
running at 1200 RPM.  There was a power management system using high 
current TRIACs that would allow the loads to be switched between the 
utility and the generator based on load balancing and peaks.  It was 
crude by today’s standards but worked well.  And the engine also produced 
hot water for domestic use through a heat exchanger, too.
One unit we took out of service had over 12,000 hours on it without ever 
being shut down or taken offline.  It could have gone a lot longer.  The 
insides were almost like new.

Dan


> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:

>
> Craig,
>
> You might find these interesting.  Jim Ettaro did many experiments with 
> small gas turbines using hydrogen as a fuel.  I saw his turbocharger 
> air pump run and I also saw the one in the second article run, and he 
> had a third version he built that I saw run. Each was quite 
> interesting, and the startup procedure did not appear that complex.  It 
> would have been fairly simple to automate start up and shutdown with 
> Jim's designs, however making one of the designs "failsafe" may not be 
> simple.

>
> Video of his small hydrogen turbine used to be on the calstate LA 
> website, but I have not been able to find them for many years now.  I 
> wish I had downloaded and saved them.  However Virgil Seaman at Cal 
> State LA may be able to provide the video.

>
> 
http://www.cleantransportationfunding.org/media_center/newsletter_articles/view/cal_state_l.a.s_new_sustainable_hydrogen_research_facility_looks_to_the_fut
>
> 
http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=12791=rtd=1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26q%3Djim%2Bettaro%2Bhydrogen%2Bturbine%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8#search=%22jim%20ettaro%20hydrogen%20turbine%22
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/mercedes@okiebenz.com/msg119615.html 
> Shhesh!  Okiebanz has lasted longer than Mercedes veterans or the 
> Dickarde list.

>
> http://www.calstatela.edu/univ/ppa/newsrel/supereagle2004f.htm
>
>
> I would theorize that the small size of Jim's turbines and the hydrogen 
> fuels avoided some of the problems Grant and Dan encountered with 
> larger versions.  What is called a Microturbine generator (like a 
> capstone) 

Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 18:52:06 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> In 1893, newspapers reported the discovery of a hodag in Rhinelander,
> Wisconsin. It had "the head of a frog, the grinning face of a giant
> elephant, thick short legs set off by huge claws, the back of a
> dinosaur, and a long tail with spears at the end". The reports were
> instigated by well-known Wisconsin land surveyor, timber cruiser and
> prankster Eugene Shepard,[1] who rounded up a group of local people to
> capture the animal.[2] The group reported that they needed to use
> dynamite to kill the beast. www.wikipedia/hodag

Actually, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodag

Now I just need to find out how it's pronounced.

Is it haw-dag or hoe-dag? :-)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That's an amazing car - made in Stockholm Germany.  It's a stealth model
that cannot be photographed, either.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Somebody needs to jump on this quick
>
> http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Very rare car

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It is the extremely rare invisible version. Only two were built.. the other
one was parked and never found again...

No photo record of the build line exists, it is rumored only blind workers
were used...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That's an amazing car - made in Stockholm Germany.  It's a stealth model
> that cannot be photographed, either.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Somebody needs to jump on this quick
> >
> > http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5217362694.html
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

DIY, so it's zero cost to install.


Even leaving out your time, and the annoyance factor that comes
with having to do the same thing AGAIN, there will be fluid loss
and that stuff is not particularly cheap.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

$21 per liter.  Not a big deal.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Jim Cathey 
wrote:

> DIY, so it's zero cost to install.
>>
>
> Even leaving out your time, and the annoyance factor that comes
> with having to do the same thing AGAIN, there will be fluid loss
> and that stuff is not particularly cheap.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Sounds like you need to join the Peace Corps . . .

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>   And I can learn how to eat the food there in
> war wreck that you want to eat here in the comfort of luxury with fear
> and wealth with hatred.
> mao
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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[MBZ] God's plan for aging

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Gerry wrote:
Someone mentioned that there are several of us geezers on the list (those over 
about 75 years) in a somewhat critical tone. Younger people (those under 65) do 
find us geezers; with our various deficiencies; threatening or disturbing. Just 
so they can understand why we have these unique habits, here are explanations 
of why the Creator designed us this way:  

> > God's plan for aging
> > Most seniors never get enough exercise. In His wisdom God decreed that 
> > seniors become forgetful so they would have to search for their 
> > glasses, keys and other things thus doing more walking. And God looked 
> > down and saw that it was good.
> > Then God saw there was another need. In His wisdom He made seniors 
> > lose coordination so they would drop things requiring them to bend, 
> > reach & stretch. And God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > Then God considered the function of bladders and decided seniors would 
> > have additional calls of nature requiring more trips to the bathroom, 
> > thus providing more exercise. God looked down and saw that it was good.
> > So if you find as you age, you are getting up and down more, remember 
> > it’s God’s will. It is all in your best interest even though you 
> > mutter under your breath.

> > Nine Important Facts To Remember As We Grow Older
> > #9 Death is the number 1 killer in the world.
> > #8 Life is sexually transmitted.
> > #7 Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
> > #6 Men have 2 motivations: hunger and hanky panky, and they can't tell 
> > them apart. If you see a gleam in his eyes, make him a sandwich.
> > #5 Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day. Teach a person to 
> > use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks, months, maybe 
> > years.
> > #4 Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the 
> > hospital, dying of nothing.
> > #3 All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no 
> > attention to criticism.
> > #2 In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the 
> > world is weird, and people take Prozac to make it normal.
> > #1 Life is like a jar of jalapeno peppers. What you do today may be a 
> > burning issue tomorrow.


We geezers allow for the shortsightedness of youth (those under 65) who 
assiduously ignore the fact that in a few short years they will be geezers too.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Craig, your second version is how I learned to pronounce it, straight 
Midwestern: hoe-dag.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

You need to watch the whole episode‎. South Park Season 10 Episode 2. It's on 
Hulu. 
Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
  Original Message  
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 10:40 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Mountain Man
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

Rick wrote:
> "Smug"

WOW - sooo preachy!
I can't even decipher the point.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Why not, if it's nice?

You can always do a "second chance offer" if it doesn't meet the reserve.

Just remember that eBay will rape you on fees. It's a necessary evil, but where 
else will you get that kind of exposure?

With that in mind, you might want to consider signing up for BenzWorld and 
listing it there. It doesn't cost anything and you'll get good exposure, albeit 
much more discerning buyers. 

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> $10k
>> 
>> $500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
>> > near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C, and
>> > roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
>> > interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a reserve
>> > price...
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
>> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Karl,
>> >>
>> >> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>> >>
>> >> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are somewhat
>> >> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold 
>> >> for
>> >> less than 123 wagons.
>> >>
>> >> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
>> >> --
>> >> Max Dillon
>> >> Charleston SC
>> >> '87 300TD
>> >> '95 E300
>> >>
>> >> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>> >>> thereby
>> >>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>> >>> new
>> >>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
>> >>> the
>> >>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>> >>> car;
>> >>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>> >>> since
>> >>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>> >>> back
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The point being is that it will be mostly MB people who know the car well and 
will often pick nits. I don't expect you'll get top dollar there for just that 
reason, unless the car is really outstanding.

If you want to get top dollar, I would say go to eBay.  People pay stupid money 
for stuff there, and you've also got the "I'm going to beat you even though I'm 
paying far more than it's worth" mentality, too.

Of course, you can always try Craigslist if you want the lowballers, can you 
finance it for me, and the no-shows.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The last thing I need is a "discerning buyer"...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> But does the AC BLOW ICE COLD and does it get 40mpg on FREE VEG OIL???
>> 
>> --R
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15 9:55 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> $10k
 
 $500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
> near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C,
 and
 
> roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
> interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a
 reserve
 
> price...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Karl,
>> 
>> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>> 
>> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are
> somewhat
 
> rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold
> for
 
> less than 123 wagons.
>> 
>> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>>> thereby
>>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>>> 
>>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>>> new
>>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything
>>> but
>>> the
>>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>>> car;
>>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>>> since
>>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>>> back
>> ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Andrew, recommend you write the installation date and odometer mileage on
each accumulator, so that if they fail prior to about 100k miles / ten
years, you will be able to decide if they were really better than paying
more for the dealer parts.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I received mine on time Wednesday.  They are awesome, made in Germany
> Corteco accumulators purchased from an ebay seller that Rich Hawkins
> recommended.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

But does the AC BLOW ICE COLD and does it get 40mpg on FREE VEG OIL???

--R



On 9/11/15 9:55 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


$10k

$500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.

Dan

Sent from my iPad


On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C,

and

roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a

reserve

price...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Karl,

Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.

Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are

somewhat

rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold

for

less than 123 wagons.

My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
thereby
reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.

Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
new
tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything but
the
center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
car;
goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
since
82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
back

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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Well, dealer price was 300 % higher, so I think I will come out ahead, so
long as I don't live past 110.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew, recommend you write the installation date and odometer mileage on
> each accumulator, so that if they fail prior to about 100k miles / ten
> years, you will be able to decide if they were really better than paying
> more for the dealer parts.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I received mine on time Wednesday.  They are awesome, made in Germany
> > Corteco accumulators purchased from an ebay seller that Rich Hawkins
> > recommended.
> >
> >
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] wagon build

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The last thing I need is a "discerning buyer"...

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> But does the AC BLOW ICE COLD and does it get 40mpg on FREE VEG OIL???
>
> --R
>
>
>
>
> On 9/11/15 9:55 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I was thinking the same number, perhaps wishfully...
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> $10k
>>>
>>> $500 for Kaleb. No title included, of course.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm gearing up to sell my repainted 1985 300TD, diamond blue with a
 near-flawless dark blue interior, after market third seat, working A/C,

>>> and
>>>
 roof racks.  It has a replacement drive train but so what?  Should be an
 interesting ebay auction.  The toughest part will be settling on a

>>> reserve
>>>
 price...

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

 Karl,
>
> Your 123 wagon is probably worth $5k or more on eBay.
>
> Are you looking for an '87 wagon or sedan to hot rod?  Wagons are
>
 somewhat
>>>
 rare, and usually neglected and beat up.  124 wagons are generally sold
>
 for
>>>
 less than 123 wagons.
>
> My current dream is an OM606 turbo in a '95 wagon body.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On September 10, 2015 11:14:43 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> I am thinking of going 87. Can't bring myself to hot rod the 85 and
>> thereby
>> reduce whatever value it has to virtually nothing.
>>
>> Which begs the question, what does a totally rust-free 85 tdt with a
>> new
>> tranny, rebuilt turbo and top end go for these days with everything
>> but
>> the
>> center vents working and newish paint? It is actually almost a fast
>> car;
>> goes like hell after the new head and turbo. Been running synthetic
>> since
>> 82k; has 189k now. Interior presentable but could use new carpet in
>> back
>>
> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Whats the installation cost?For instance if the dealer part was $300 vs $100 
for yours and the installation is $200 say.If the cheap ones last 5 years and 
the good ones last 10 years you'd have been $100 ahead to buy the more 
expensive part. Never mind that when they fail it'll be the least convenient 
time possible.
If you're in the middle of a big trip and drive on anyway since theres no hope 
of getting them replaced in the middle of nowhere and you then break a spring 
or other component you'd have been way ahead with the more expensive part.
Research the Sam Vimes theory of economic inequality.
-Curt
  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon 
 
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 10:43 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
   
Well, dealer price was 300 % higher, so I think I will come out ahead, so
long as I don't live past 110.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew, recommend you write the installation date and odometer mileage on
> each accumulator, so that if they fail prior to about 100k miles / ten
> years, you will be able to decide if they were really better than paying
> more for the dealer parts.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I received mine on time Wednesday.  They are awesome, made in Germany
> > Corteco accumulators purchased from an ebay seller that Rich Hawkins
> > recommended.
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


>
>
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[MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Scott wrote:
> Well, here's one non-partisan truth:  The Government can't give anything to 
> anybody without first taking it from someone else (and taking a cut along the 
> way).
>

Definitely sounds non-partisan but it certainly becomes partisan real
quick, doesn't it?
Maybe Gov. has a different mode of accounting.  Maybe there is not a
balance that is drawn against when Gov. give.

Thinking of which - The new wring-your-hands world fiasco is this
"crisis" of refugees at Europe these days and the Gov. taking that
will be had to transport 10k refugees to USA - no argument we are a
nice place to arrive and there seems to be much here to spread around.
Where do I sign up?  I want my place here to be one of the places that
the refugee comes to live, i.e. we trade places.  I guess someone
needs to pay for shipping bodies across the pond.  Maybe we can trade
body places and make this wring-your-hands world fiasco non-partisan.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Gov. Taking

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What a great idea - trading places.  Sort of like an adult exchange service.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Scott wrote:
> > Well, here's one non-partisan truth:  The Government can't give anything
> to anybody without first taking it from someone else (and taking a cut
> along the way).
> >
>
> Definitely sounds non-partisan but it certainly becomes partisan real
> quick, doesn't it?
> Maybe Gov. has a different mode of accounting.  Maybe there is not a
> balance that is drawn against when Gov. give.
>
> Thinking of which - The new wring-your-hands world fiasco is this
> "crisis" of refugees at Europe these days and the Gov. taking that
> will be had to transport 10k refugees to USA - no argument we are a
> nice place to arrive and there seems to be much here to spread around.
> Where do I sign up?  I want my place here to be one of the places that
> the refugee comes to live, i.e. we trade places.  I guess someone
> needs to pay for shipping bodies across the pond.  Maybe we can trade
> body places and make this wring-your-hands world fiasco non-partisan.
> mao
>
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[MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:33:00 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
 wrote:

> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
> 
> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
> would also be nice.

Tell me more!

What kind of fuel efficiency would one expect?

What kind of turbine would one use?

Any idea where to buy one?

How would one gear it down to useful RPM?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

DIY, so it's zero cost to install.  Also, if one or both "fail" the rides
gets a little bouncier, which I actually don't mind.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Whats the installation cost?For instance if the dealer part was $300 vs
> $100 for yours and the installation is $200 say.If the cheap ones last 5
> years and the good ones last 10 years you'd have been $100 ahead to buy the
> more expensive part. Never mind that when they fail it'll be the least
> convenient time possible.
> If you're in the middle of a big trip and drive on anyway since theres no
> hope of getting them replaced in the middle of nowhere and you then break a
> spring or other component you'd have been way ahead with the more expensive
> part.
> Research the Sam Vimes theory of economic inequality.
> -Curt
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
> dillonm...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 10:43 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
>
> Well, dealer price was 300 % higher, so I think I will come out ahead, so
> long as I don't live past 110.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew, recommend you write the installation date and odometer mileage on
> > each accumulator, so that if they fail prior to about 100k miles / ten
> > years, you will be able to decide if they were really better than paying
> > more for the dealer parts.
> >
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I received mine on time Wednesday.  They are awesome, made in Germany
> > > Corteco accumulators purchased from an ebay seller that Rich Hawkins
> > > recommended.
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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[MBZ] Terminology [was: Re: Benzin price Wuz: CLK55 needed]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:51:58 -0500 Curly McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> >Sure hope you didn't run into any Hodags or Igarots, passing so 
> >close to Rhinelander...
> 
> Definitely encountered hodags.  Went right through downtown 
> Rhinelander both ways.  Got chased by some hodags while I chased 
> others.  It was potatofest in Rhinelander.  Huge white tent pitched 
> by Trigs.  We don't take the bypass.

For those of us not in the know, what are Hodags and Igarots?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Rick wrote:
> "Smug"

WOW - sooo preachy!
I can't even decipher the point.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Fred wrote:
> ...and now, instead of bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn, they 
> are off on a scenic ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has me 
> baffled...
>

My shipment has gone from Providence to my local USPS and out for
delivery yesterday and then it sez it is in Santa Cruz in the same
day.  What is rong with this Magic Kingdom USPS these days?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Andrew,  I'll bet your hourly wage is not zero when you are at work.  Time
off from work is, in my opinion, worth more per hour that time at work
(that's why I'm not working overtime, unless I am).  One can use the hourly
salary number or a larger number, but that is the cost / hour for DIY work,
in my opinion.

Clearly, most of us enjoy DIY, and so we tend to overlook that cost.
Indeed, you may REALLY enjoy doing that job two or three times by deciding
to use lower quality components.  Personally, I only REALLY enjoy it the
first time (learning something new + satisfaction of DIY + higher
confidence that the work was done well and to a high quality), but with
subsequent iterations of the same work, especially if due to premature
failure of cheap components, the "enjoyment curve" begins to fall off
steeply...

Don't forget the risk that failed accumulators and the subsequent bouncy
ride are adding to the stress on the SLS control valve, which may then
fail, leading to the higher repair costs that Curt was alluding to.
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> DIY, so it's zero cost to install.  Also, if one or both "fail" the rides
> gets a little bouncier, which I actually don't mind.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Mao.What indeed?!The local, Lynn MA, people sorted it out for me. Hooray for 
the human touch!

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:46:22 -0500
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wherz my Paatz?
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: maontin@gmail.com
> 
> Fred wrote:
> > ...and now, instead of bowling merrily down the 'pike to Boston/Lynn, they 
> > are off on a scenic ride to Michigan. The Magic Kingdom of USPS has me 
> > baffled...
> >
> 
> My shipment has gone from Providence to my local USPS and out for
> delivery yesterday and then it sez it is in Santa Cruz in the same
> day.  What is rong with this Magic Kingdom USPS these days?
> mao
  
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Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I used to be assigned to USS LEWIS B. PULLER (FFG 23) which used two gas
turbine engines for main propulsion.  LM-2500 engines I think, same basic
design as used in a DC-9 from foggy memory.  20,000 shaft horse power from
each engine. Under normal operations, the Engineering Section began for
getting underway 24 hours prior to casting off from the pier, but the gas
turbine engines would not be lit off until an hour or so prior.  In an
emergency, that whole cycle could be compressed to about 30-45 minutes, and
one of our Chief Engineer's bragged that he could take the engines from
stone cold to ready for helm orders in 10 minutes if needed.

This compares to a steam plant which may take a full 24 hours just to be
ready for helm orders, with limited ability to shorten that if the plant
was stone cold.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:52 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > So sorry to bring rain to the parade..
> >
> > Reality is like that.   The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks,
> > pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical
> > replacement for use in motorcars.
>
> I'm not looking to use it in a motorcar ...
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Max.The "Coal-scuttle" that holds the upper rubber mount is almost adrift.I had 
been contemplating a welding spree, now I don't know, as I have my hands full 
with the green one.Chowdah Q is almost upon us.

Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:07:58 -0400
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Was, wherez my Paatz.
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: dillonm...@gmail.com
> 
> Randy, it is a strut but not a coil-over strut (there is a separate
> spring).  Very bad if the upper strut came free, but not quite as bad as
> the loss of control when the ball joint lets go.
> 
> Fred, thinking a little further, perhaps the issue is the rubber strut
> mount (replaceable with ease) and not the surrounding sheet metal
> (replaceable with advanced metallurgy skills and welding equipment)?
> Max
> Charleston SC
  
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