Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
John W. Reames III wrote: for intake, add 0.05mm for extended ambient temps below -20C But if it's -10C when you adjust them, there's no reason to add more clearance. You will have a bit more clearance at -10 than at room temperature (+20C).
[MBZ] Test
Taste?
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
Depends on what kind of laminate. Real Pergo brand laminate for instance is a thin layer of real hardwood on some sort of a plywood backing. The cheapo discount store stuff is basically wallpaper on the floor. MDF with stickon wood grain. I saw Pergo in a house that had extreme water damage, it was the only wood in the house undamaged... I'm sold on that stuff. The other stuff is crap. -Curt Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:17:09 -0500 From: Billr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a quick note on flooring. In S. Fla we had all tile [NEVER get white floor tile ], but here we have a mixture of carpet, tile and wood. A few months ago I started seeing water squish up from between the floor panels - quite exciting as it was in the middle of the house. Turns out the PO had installed the air handler in a front hall closet and put in a sump pump, which had locked up. Out comes the shop vac but I was quite concerned about the wood floor. PO said not to worry as it was solid wood and would settle down fine when it dried out. He was right, and you can't even tell where it was wet. It is my impression that laminate will not do that - or is my information based on old technology? BillR Jacksonville FL - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 00:25:34 2007 Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net ([204.127.200.84]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H7hZW-gN-PN for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:25:34 + Received: from [192.168.1.6] (c-24-3-195-27.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[24.3.195.27]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with ESMTP id 2007011900204401400oir0ne; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:20:44 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:20:41 -0500 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:25:35 - Roger Conlon wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? I have not done the valves in 2 yrs and I don't have a heated garage. It's not a problem. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Test
Like chicken? - Original Message - From: Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:07 PM Subject: [MBZ] Test Taste? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Test 2
T
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
But if it's -10C when you adjust them, THE ENGINE AND THE WRENCHES ARE TERRIBLY COLD TO THE TOUCH! bur! I'll be waiting until the temps climb a bit although it's probably 6oC or 42oF here, balmy compared to much of the country right now. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265k miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I saw Pergo in a house that had extreme water damage, it was the only wood in the house undamaged... I'm sold on that stuff. The other stuff is crap. They must have improved it since I had it. In a former house, late 1990s, we had Pergo installed. Some water was spilled on the floor and not noticed. Even though the planks were glued together, the water soaked into the joints between the planks, and the floor swelled a little there. It never went back down after it dried. Laminate floor has its advantages but you cannot let water stand on it for any length of time. I would never use it in a bathroom or anywhere else likely to see a lot of water. The manufacturers will tell you it can be installed in a bathroom if you use waterproof glue and seal the entire perimeter. I would not do it unless the planks are guaranteed waterproof (a few are, but most are not). Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
[MBZ] Test 3
taystey
Re: [MBZ] Test
you failed Frederick W Moir wrote: Taste? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Test 2
you failed again Frederick W Moir wrote: T ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Test 3
also failed Frederick W Moir wrote: taystey ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
Lancia did the same thing with their V-4 back in the late 50's Werner - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders Jeff Zedic wrote: I wonder how VW has done it with te engine I saw in a Passat the other day. It's a V5! Yes, I read t twice just to be sure! Their narrow-angle V6 is interesting, too. A pretty clever solution for transverse-engine cars without much space under the hood. The bank angle is so small, both banks share a single head casting.
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
Werner, I have a technical question for you or others. Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? DWS Werner Fehlauer wrote: Lancia did the same thing with their V-4 back in the late 50's Werner - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders Jeff Zedic wrote: I wonder how VW has done it with te engine I saw in a Passat the other day. It's a V5! Yes, I read t twice just to be sure! Their narrow-angle V6 is interesting, too. A pretty clever solution for transverse-engine cars without much space under the hood. The bank angle is so small, both banks share a single head casting. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
We replaced nasty old carpet with Wilsonart laminate flooring a couple of years ago. It's similar to Formica on Masonite. We have it in every room in the house. There is no noticeable difference between that in the bathroom (glued along the joints, but not the outside edges), and anywhere else. I have scraps that have been left out in the weather for 12 months, that snap together nicely with samples that have been kept inside - nice and dry. I don't worry about water on the floor at all now. It's very hard and scuff resistant. The marks that look like scratches turn out to be bits of the offending item scrapped off by the texture of the floor - they clean up readily, and the floor looks like new. We're very happy with the stuff. So far, it's performed better than advertised. Laminate floor has its advantages but you cannot let water stand on it for any length of time. I would never use it in a bathroom or anywhere else likely to see a lot of water. The manufacturers will tell you it can be installed in a bathroom if you use waterproof glue and seal the entire perimeter. I would not do it unless the planks are guaranteed waterproof (a few are, but most are not). -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Test 2
A - Original Message - From: Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: [MBZ] Test 2 T ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
Darrell W. Sigmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Werner, I have a technical question for you or others. Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? In a 4 stroke radial engine, it's so that the firing order can be every other cylinder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_engine Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
We replaced nasty old carpet with Wilsonart laminate flooring Some friends of my wife are contractors, and put that stuff in their mom's kitchen. After several years of use, and being used as a day care facility, the Wilsonart people came out to photograph the installation for their catalog. It appeared as a full-page feature photograph. (The boys had done a very elaborate patterned and edged installation, like parquet.) It looked as good as new, still does. They're sold on that particular brand. I can't speak for its water-resistance, not knowing of any incidents (or not). -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? Might have to do with how the mass of connecting rods all have to attach to the crank at the same place. Just a guess. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OT The mighty fell My Saab stranded me in cold
I had left it with around three gallons of fuel in the tank for 8 hours or so. Condensation becomes a problem when the temperature cycles up and down. With a lot of room in the tank for air, more comes in and releases its moisture into the tank. For short periods of time, it really doesn't matter. Likewise if the temperature is not fluctuating much. Also, below freezing there isn't all that much water vapor in the air to begin with. This recent arctic blast, though cold, has been _much_ less of a PITA than warmer temperatures that leave ice all over windows, etc. I filled up and hit the highway. I got about 5 miles and it just quit. Can you say 'bad gas'? Fillup followed by a stalled engine a few miles down the road is classic. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
In a 4 stroke radial engine, it's so that the firing order can be every other cylinder. Now that makes total sense. Skip every other one, and then it's two revs per firing. Just what a 4-stroke needs. Also, without the multiple phased crank journals of the inline engine you're very limited on your options for firing order. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
I am more partial to the three or 4 row radials. I believe the theory of odd cylinder numbers is to dampen vibration. Even numbers would mean directly opposed cylinders. Directly opposed cylinders could set up harmonic vibrations. Yes, Lycoming and other boxer engines have directly opposed cylinders in even numbers, but they take other measures to dampen vibration. And, 'sides we were talking about radials! At 07:39 PM 1/18/2007, you wrote: Werner, I have a technical question for you or others. Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? DWS Werner Fehlauer wrote: Lancia did the same thing with their V-4 back in the late 50's Werner - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders Jeff Zedic wrote: I wonder how VW has done it with te engine I saw in a Passat the other day. It's a V5! Yes, I read t twice just to be sure! Their narrow-angle V6 is interesting, too. A pretty clever solution for transverse-engine cars without much space under the hood. The bank angle is so small, both banks share a single head casting. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
Isn't that a R107 in the architect's drawing here? http://menards.com/web/managed/featuredProjects/garages/1954029PicLg.jpg Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
I'd say so On 1/18/07, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't that a R107 in the architect's drawing here? http://menards.com/web/managed/featuredProjects/garages/1954029PicLg.jpg Mitch. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Number of cylinders
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:39:24 -0500 Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darrell W. Sigmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Werner, I have a technical question for you or others. Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? In a 4 stroke radial engine, it's so that the firing order can be every other cylinder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_engine It also mentions, Diesel radials While the vast majority of radial engines have been produced for gasoline fuels, the Nordberg Manufacturing Company of the US developed and produced a series of large radial diesel engines from the 1940s. Designed initially for electricity production in aluminium smelters, these engines differed from the norm of radial design in having identical connecting rods in all cylinders, lacking the master/slave rod usually found. The engine design also permitted even numbers of cylinders in a single rank with the cylinders being fired in consecutive order. The engines were a two-cycle design and were also available in a dual-fuel gas/diesel model. A number of powerhouse installations utilising large numbers of these engines were made in the US.[1] [1] http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Nordberg/Nordmenu.htm http://www.oldengine.org/ Craig
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:57:25 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. Your fingers will thank you, but you'll have an undetermined temperature thoughout the engine which will play havoc with the actual valve lashes when the engine is entirely cold. The specs for adjustment assume the entire engine is at 20 deg.C. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! Werner - Original Message - From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:57:25 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. Your fingers will thank you, but you'll have an undetermined temperature thoughout the engine which will play havoc with the actual valve lashes when the engine is entirely cold. The specs for adjustment assume the entire engine is at 20 deg.C. Craig
Re: [MBZ] OT interesting vehicle Hanomag camper van $1500
IIRC, the Kemp museum outside of St. Louis has one of these. Must be a real clattering, sloooww beast, though. Putting your money into a new/used Sprinter Class B motor home would probably cost less, and certainly be less hassle! Werner - Original Message - From: kevin kraly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT interesting vehicle Hanomag camper van $1500 Anyone heard of these? http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/263324160.html I just spotted this one on CL a few minutes ago. It sounds quite interesting, especially for us who are into diesels. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
In a message dated 1/18/2007 3:31:21 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? I have not done the valves in 2 yrs and I don't have a heated garage. Absolutely ok. The colder it is when you adjust them, the less likely it is that they will be held open during a colder day. The clearances when normalized will be slightly looser but that improves low end torque, with only slightly noisier valve clatter. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 147 K miles
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:54:51 -0500 Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? Because that will have even worse temperature changes as you're adjusting the valves. You need to adjust the valves with the engine at ambient temperature so everything starts and finishes at the same temperature. Craig
Re: [MBZ] OT House Build Quality
Isn't that a R107 in the architect's drawing here? http://menards.com/web/managed/featuredProjects/garages/ 1954029PicLg.jpg Kinda-sorta, but it has a BMW-ish rear badge, and the shape of the ass end reminds me more of a 114 than a 107. With Euro bumpers, not USDOT behemoths. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Governer question - injection charge profile
To ask a furthur question - what shapes the maximum injection stoke volume vs rpm at these pumps. As I understand it compensation for volumetric efficiency vs rpm needs to be taken account so that at low speed and at hig speed the maximum injection charge is lower than at mid range rpm due to rereduced volumetric efficeincy. Peter -Original Message- From: John Robbins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 January 2007 10:34 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Governer question On Wed, 17 Jan 2007, Jim Cathey wrote: If we are talking pre computer controlled Mercedes diesels, such as the 617 turbo diesel, you are totally wrong! The governor does not have any function between idle and full rpm. The only things that control engine speed are the load, and the position of the fuel rack. I disagree. It's possible to build diesel governors that have throttle responses anywhere from gasser acceleration models to pure tractor-like fixed RPM settings. No doubt, but the governor on the OM617 turbos have a min/max governor with torque control and boost compensation (ALDA). The governor in the 200D Frankenheap is very tractor-like, it pretty much accelerates all-out (ha!) to the rpm corresponding to the throttle pedal position. Well, on a flat road there is always going to be a fuel rack position vs speed since the car speed and load are fairly well correlated to each other. That pedal position is different in park than it is in drive correct? Those vacuum controlled IPs are interesting... the literature I have doesn't talk much about them though. John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Oil passage block cleanup
On the OM617 engine there are steel balls at the clutch end of the block which are end stops for oil passages internal to the block. How difficult is it to remove and particulily re-install these balls without the risk of a leaks. Alternatively can one sucessfully clean the oil passages without removing the steel end balls. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Test 2
I think B is more appropriate, ie TB :) -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] A - Original Message - From: Frederick W Moir T From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 12:59:32 2007 Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.192.82]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H7tL9-0003Lu-S1 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:59:32 + Received: from rmailcenter20.comcast.net ([204.127.197.130]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id 20070119125438m12002h602e; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:54:38 + Received: from [208.27.111.119] by rmailcenter20.comcast.net; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:54:38 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:54:38 + Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: ATT Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: andyZWFtZXNAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp1 Subject: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines (was: Number of cylinders) X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:59:32 - What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darrell W. Sigmon writes: Werner, I have a technical question for you or others. Why do ALL radial engines have odd cylinders, like 1,3,5,7,9? There is a logical answer, what is it? In a 4 stroke radial engine, it's so that the firing order can be every other cylinder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_engine From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 14:14:29 2007 Received: from odin.envisagenow.com ([12.2.42.104]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H7uVh-0005EO-Mq for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:14:29 + Received: from STREIB ([12.2.42.59]) by odin.envisagenow.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:10:19 -0500 Received: by STREIB (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:09:27 -0500 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:09:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]'s message of Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:54:38 +) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.19 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2007 14:10:19.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CFBF810:01C73BD3] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:14:31 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... LOL.. I was wondering exactly the same thing this morning... Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines (was: Number of cylinders)
The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting - you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application). They have been known to blow a cylinder or two off when this step is omitted. On 1/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... -j. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines (was: Number of cylinders)
Sounds like it would 1) leak a lot, and 2) smoke even more Nifty feature, that self-hydrolocking. I guess the spark plug threads on the bottom cylinders wear out sooner than those on the upper ones :P Fun Fun! -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting - you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application). They have been known to blow a cylinder or two off when this step is omitted. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 14:45:16 2007 Received: from bay0-omc1-s1.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.73]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H7uzU-0006Sy-2t for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:45:16 + Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.136.112]) by bay0-omc1-s1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:40:21 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:40:21 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from 65.55.136.123 by by131fd.bay131.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:40:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.168.111.70] X-Originating-Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Roger Conlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:40:20 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2007 14:40:21.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF3ECD80:01C73BD7] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:45:16 - Thanks all who responded to my question. It did cross my mind to leave the block heater plugged in all night and while I was working on it. I thought by then the engine temp should even out. As far as the cold temp as long as I get out of the wind it's really not that bad, and after the fingers get that fat numb feeling. Right Lt. Don. Where has he been lately or have I just missed his postings? I think it bothers my back more in the cold from leaning over tho. _ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
I've gotten really huge latex gloves and put them on over knit garden gloves before, it doesn't kill your dexterity as much (and it is not like you need TONS of it for a valve adjustment) I hear you kicking and screaming over bending overin the cold. Insulated coveralls help a bit, but I am still suffering from my jaunt on the ground yesterday; Hans had an 8mm coolant line pop out of a clip and rub itself to death on the intercooler... To get at the line entailed removing the bumper (4 bolts, thankfully!).. I just used a 5/16 compression union on it, seems to be holding fine.. BTW i found out that I have weeping from between the nuts and the pipe on my oil cooler lines, Thankfully the OM606 has 4 lines; two hoses from the engine to the body hard lines, then the two body hard lines down to the aluminium radiator. Unfortunately it is the body hard lines that have the weep, so it looks like headlight removal time and probably dremel time (split the nuts and they will hopefully unscrew... but they might not be siezed either. It will be decidely easier to get at the cooler with the bumper off. I'm hoping that the radiator is not leaking as well. Does anyone know how much oil the lines and radiator hold? (210.025/OM606.96x) I'm guessing about 2 qt. I also found that the bolts securing the sway bar to the chassis tend to round off (#[EMAIL PROTECTED] E-10 heads) and were up-reved to Hex heads. I'm hoping that Craftsman external ez-out sockets will get a good bite on the now round heads and spin them right out. Additionally, on the stuck lug nut, I found that my locak dealership has a guy who is good enough with a plasma cutter to just blow the bolt out of the hole (!). Talk about big chrome-plated cast-iron cojones! Fun,Fun. -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Roger Conlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks all who responded to my question. It did cross my mind to leave the block heater plugged in all night and while I was working on it. I thought by then the engine temp should even out. As far as the cold temp as long as I get out of the wind it's really not that bad, and after the fingers get that fat numb feeling. Right Lt. Don. Where has he been lately or have I just missed his postings? I think it bothers my back more in the cold from leaning over tho. _ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 -- next part -- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Roger Conlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:41:14 + Size: 789 Url: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20070119/dcbe577b/attachment.mht
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
My college summer job was at the airport, a ramp rat. I used to fill up the old Beech D18 from a night of hauling the mail, would take a 5 gal can of oil up on each wing and pour in 3-4 gal in each radial engine. Not sure where it went once it went down the hole (I know where the part that missed the hole went!) but whatever the system was, it burned and blew out a LOT of oil. Check the gas and fill the oil! This was a lot of fun on a dark rainy night, oil and rain and skinny me on a sloping wing with a 50lb (or was it a 100lb?) bucket of oil... When the pilot fired those suckers up (and it was an art to get them to fire) every mosquito with a mile died. First one or two cylinders would catch and sputter, then a couple more, then all of them eventually, amidst much drama of belching smoke, backfires and starter protest. Sometimes you would get some gas/oil fire in the stacks, a blowtorch until the rpms came up and the props blew out the fire. The pilot would laugh like hell. I was outside the other day, and heard this sound that triggered memories -- looked up and there it was! A Beech D18 growling overhead at about 1000 ft! Nothing else sounds like one. Googling shows they are Pratt Whitney R-985 AN-1 or AN-3 nine-cylinder, air-cooled radial, 450 hp each --R OK Don wrote: The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting - you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application). They have been known to blow a cylinder or two off when this step is omitted. On 1/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... -j.
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! For the engine to be at a uniform temperature throughout, the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours (not even for a minute or two). Unless the engine temperature is uniform, valve adjustment will be uneven. Once shut down, the front, center and back of the engine cool at different rates. Using the block heater would not be particularly desirable either but not as bad as running the engine. What is required for reliable cold starting is that there be SOME valve clearance at the coldest temperatures expected (clearance decreases as the temperature drops because the valves and the head have different temperature coefficients). The precise clearance is not nearly as critical as sufficient clearance for reliable cold starting. Uniform and correct clearances are required for the engine to run most smoothly. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! Werner Wouldn't that be to wait for operating temperature? If its somewhere inbetween different things could still be at different temperatures (heck, thats prolly true even at operating temp). The plate on my car says if above a certain temp use xx values or if its below that temp use... etc. (I don't remember the values or temp, but know that I've always needed the 'cold' ones). IMO, its been two years since the valve adjustment was done the little itty bitty differences in tolerance from the super cold temperatures are most likely insignificant compared to how out of clearance they are now. Besides, its not like they'll never be out of adjustment again ;) Warming tools... I'm going to have to try that one! :) Any spiffy warming method or do you just keep them inside? John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
Hi Rich - Great story - BTW, a 5 gal of oil weighs *about* 48 #'s. Back when I was flying we had to calc the weight of everything so we wouldn't be overweight and to get the planed loaded properly - we used 8#s as a number to get us close when calculating fuel weight. Those Cessna 150s I learned in were the 240D of airplanes - Those old Beechs are classic planes with a beautiful shape - like the old DC3 which is used a lot still - after it was developed 60+ years ago -- just like the W123 in its various guises will be with us loved by us for many years to come - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines My college summer job was at the airport, a ramp rat. I used to fill up the old Beech D18 from a night of hauling the mail, would take a 5 gal can of oil up on each wing and pour in 3-4 gal in each radial engine. Not sure where it went once it went down the hole (I know where the part that missed the hole went!) but whatever the system was, it burned and blew out a LOT of oil. Check the gas and fill the oil! This was a lot of fun on a dark rainy night, oil and rain and skinny me on a sloping wing with a 50lb (or was it a 100lb?) bucket of oil... When the pilot fired those suckers up (and it was an art to get them to fire) every mosquito with a mile died. First one or two cylinders would catch and sputter, then a couple more, then all of them eventually, amidst much drama of belching smoke, backfires and starter protest. Sometimes you would get some gas/oil fire in the stacks, a blowtorch until the rpms came up and the props blew out the fire. The pilot would laugh like hell. I was outside the other day, and heard this sound that triggered memories -- looked up and there it was! A Beech D18 growling overhead at about 1000 ft! Nothing else sounds like one. Googling shows they are Pratt Whitney R-985 AN-1 or AN-3 nine-cylinder, air-cooled radial, 450 hp each --R OK Don wrote: The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting - you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application). They have been known to blow a cylinder or two off when this step is omitted. On 1/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... -j. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 1/18/2007
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
John Robbins wrote: The plate on my car says if above a certain temp use xx values or if its below that temp use... etc. (I don't remember the values or temp, but know that I've always needed the 'cold' ones). IMO, its been two years since the valve adjustment was done the little itty bitty differences in tolerance from the super cold temperatures are most likely insignificant compared to how out of clearance they are now. Besides, its not like they'll never be out of adjustment again ;) Unless you are much faster at adjusting valve than I am, the warm values ALWAYS result in unreliable valve adjustment since the engine is cooling while you are adjusting the valves. For a uniform valve adjustment the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours!! Even really experienced mechanics can't do as good a job using the warm values (no matter what they claim). Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
The dry sump was also used on the M100 engine, Triumph motorcycles and lots of aircraft applications. I think the 300SL (not the 90s one, but the real 300SL) had a dry sump. I believe the water cooled Allisons, Rolls Royce and Daimler-Benz V-12 aircraft engines of WWII were all dry sump At 08:09 AM 1/19/2007, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... LOL.. I was wondering exactly the same thing this morning... Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Thanks. I noticed a decided difference in engine running between stone cold (overnight sit) versus warm adjustments. I always wondered why, or if it was something that I was doing wrong. I've gotten to where I can adjust them on the street in 30 mins (It has gotten a question or three from the neighbors, but they have grown to accept it.) -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless you are much faster at adjusting valve than I am, the warm values ALWAYS result in unreliable valve adjustment since the engine is cooling while you are adjusting the valves. For a uniform valve adjustment the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours!! Even really experienced mechanics can't do as good a job using the warm values (no matter what they claim). From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 16:14:41 2007 Received: from sniper.hpc.msstate.edu ([130.18.14.12] helo=HPC.MsState.Edu) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.52) id 1H7wNw-0003Bd-PL for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:41 + Received: from [130.18.90.226] (Dhcp-90-226.HPC.MsState.Edu [130.18.90.226]); by HPC.MsState.Edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/HPC-Mailhost/1.23) with ESMTP; id l0JG9fpZ002041 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:09:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:09:33 -0600 From: John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Governer question - injection charge profile X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:41 - Peter Merle wrote: To ask a furthur question - what shapes the maximum injection stoke volume vs rpm at these pumps. As I understand it compensation for volumetric efficiency vs rpm needs to be taken account so that at low speed and at hig speed the maximum injection charge is lower than at mid range rpm due to rereduced volumetric efficeincy. Let me make sure I understand what you're asking real quick. :) On the volumetric efficiency vs RPM are you talking about the amount of available air for combustion inside the cylinder based on RPM (things like boost and/or losses changing that over the RPM band)? If thats the case, then the amount of injected fuel (injection charge?) does have different limits across the RPM range. The reason for it is that if you start injecting too much fuel you will start generating clouds of black smoke (partially burned fuel). I have a graph in a Bosch tech book that shows the max injected volume vs RPM and it does do what you describe. I can post that if you would like that extra verification :) As to HOW thats done that is where the complicated part (IMO) of our governors come into play. In the governor used on the MW pumps I believe it is called torque control. There are very few people who truly understand exactly how it works (and how to change it), and I am certainly NOT one of them. If you are interested in learning more about how IPs work I'd highly suggest this book It talks about all kinds of IPs and how the governors work, etc. As well as a fairly detailed overview of diesel combustion, etc. I sure enjoyed reading it and learned a lot :) http://www.boschtechinfo.com/index.cfm?event=product.searchkeyword=1%20987%20723%20602 John '79 300SD
[MBZ] O.T. Hey There Okie Boys
I heard on the radio your governor want federal disaster moola for Okieland. Is it as jacked up there as the news reports make it out to be? Bob Rlots of rain today, no ice. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 16:59:28 2007 Received: from host337.ipowerweb.com ([72.22.69.22]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H7x5M-0004b4-43 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:59:28 + Received: (qmail 27467 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 16:48:13 - Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (206.109.43.202) by host337.ipowerweb.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 16:48:13 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:52:31 -0600 From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:59:28 - Avgas and JetA weigh in at 6#/gal, water is 8ish, I would guess oil is closer to 6, maybe a bit more. A big bucket swinging around on a wet oily wing seems to weigh a TON! I got to fly once by happenstance (the steamer ran aground so we took the plane) on the world's highest-time DC-3, in summer service with Cape Air (might have been called something else back then) flying from Hyannis to Nantucket. It was gorgeous, original style interior with big wide seats, 2x2, like an old Caddy. She flew at a stately pace at about 500ft on the short hop over the Sound, those big radials making a very comforting sound. Probably still in service somewhere. As a ramp rat I got to load freight on some old DC-3s, NOT FUN as the tail sits low and the nose high, bucking big boxes up that aluminum deck and trying to get them to stay put til you could tie them down was a chore. I recall one still had the radio shack installed behind the cockpit, with the original tube radios. It was quite a sight. The pilot said the owner was sentimental... Here are some sounds http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/sounds?13 A lot of old D18s and even DC-3s were converted to turbine engines, D18s on tricycle gear with a nose wheel, they performed really well but looked strange. I would love to have a DC-3. I was at a car show a few years ago, a couple there had a couple old cars of some sort, I overheard them talking to someone they knew about having to sell some of their cars and planes, including the DC-3 (the woman said sadly I loved that plane), when the all bidness went sour a few years before. I didn't know whether to be sad for them or not, though they seemed like regular folks who happened to have some varying fortunes (exceeding mine though). --R LarryT wrote: Hi Rich - Great story - BTW, a 5 gal of oil weighs *about* 48 #'s. Back when I was flying we had to calc the weight of everything so we wouldn't be overweight and to get the planed loaded properly - we used 8#s as a number to get us close when calculating fuel weight. Those Cessna 150s I learned in were the 240D of airplanes - Those old Beechs are classic planes with a beautiful shape - like the old DC3 which is used a lot still - after it was developed 60+ years ago -- just like the W123 in its various guises will be with us loved by us for many years to come -
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
you wrote: the 300SL (not the 90s one, but the real 300SL) had a dry sump. I believe the water cooled Allisons, Rolls Royce and Daimler-Benz V-12 aircraft engines And,Drum roll please, T D,. -- the greatest most famous sportscar of all time has a dry sump oil system - the Porsche 911. The oil level is checked with the engine idling. ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines The dry sump was also used on the M100 engine, Triumph motorcycles and lots of aircraft applications. I think the 300SL (not the 90s one, but the real 300SL) had a dry sump. I believe the water cooled Allisons, Rolls Royce and Daimler-Benz V-12 aircraft engines of WWII were all dry sump At 08:09 AM 1/19/2007, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What I'm wondering is how the lubrication system works, since it is pretty obvious that you can't have a sump and the oil would seemingly accumulate in the bottom piston(s)/cylinder(s)... LOL.. I was wondering exactly the same thing this morning... Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 1/18/2007
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
Thanks Rich - my memory isn;t what is used to be. ;-) I climbed in a cargo DC3 on the ramp once - Geez, just climbing from the door to the cockpit was a PITA - loading cargo must have been a LOT of fun. OTOH, I was invited into a early Learjet for a lookaround and was amazed at how *small* it was. Beautiful - but tiny. It had been doing touch go's for a while and we (my instructor I) hoped to catch a ride - but when we caught up with him he was done for the day ;-(. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines Avgas and JetA weigh in at 6#/gal, water is 8ish, I would guess oil is closer to 6, maybe a bit more. A big bucket swinging around on a wet oily wing seems to weigh a TON! I got to fly once by happenstance (the steamer ran aground so we took the plane) on the world's highest-time DC-3, in summer service with Cape Air (might have been called something else back then) flying from Hyannis to Nantucket. It was gorgeous, original style interior with big wide seats, 2x2, like an old Caddy. She flew at a stately pace at about 500ft on the short hop over the Sound, those big radials making a very comforting sound. Probably still in service somewhere. As a ramp rat I got to load freight on some old DC-3s, NOT FUN as the tail sits low and the nose high, bucking big boxes up that aluminum deck and trying to get them to stay put til you could tie them down was a chore. I recall one still had the radio shack installed behind the cockpit, with the original tube radios. It was quite a sight. The pilot said the owner was sentimental... Here are some sounds http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/sounds?13 A lot of old D18s and even DC-3s were converted to turbine engines, D18s on tricycle gear with a nose wheel, they performed really well but looked strange. I would love to have a DC-3. I was at a car show a few years ago, a couple there had a couple old cars of some sort, I overheard them talking to someone they knew about having to sell some of their cars and planes, including the DC-3 (the woman said sadly I loved that plane), when the all bidness went sour a few years before. I didn't know whether to be sad for them or not, though they seemed like regular folks who happened to have some varying fortunes (exceeding mine though). --R LarryT wrote: Hi Rich - Great story - BTW, a 5 gal of oil weighs *about* 48 #'s. Back when I was flying we had to calc the weight of everything so we wouldn't be overweight and to get the planed loaded properly - we used 8#s as a number to get us close when calculating fuel weight. Those Cessna 150s I learned in were the 240D of airplanes - Those old Beechs are classic planes with a beautiful shape - like the old DC3 which is used a lot still - after it was developed 60+ years ago -- just like the W123 in its various guises will be with us loved by us for many years to come - ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 1/18/2007
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
and to get the planed loaded properly - we used 8#s as a number to get us close when calculating fuel weight. Or as my dad always said: A pint's a pound the world around. He had flight training, in the reserves. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
Sometimes that isn't a bad thing! --R LarryT wrote: Thanks Rich - my memory isn;t what is used to be. ;-)
[MBZ] Semi OT
Calling All Gurus (Gurii?) When downloading and viewing the list mail I sometimes only get one half of the question-answer pair, usually just the answers. Any ideas? TIA Fred Moir Lynn MA Cold Diesel Days.
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
My wife and I built our 1800 sq ft steel frame home on a full size basement, clear span through out. We did everything except the cement pours/finishing and the HVAC. Built the 10 ft high basement walls without mortar, just dry stack and use a surface bonding material, even a caveman can do it. The steel frame came as a kit and we screwed it together. The walls are over nine inches thick. It took a long time and still has work to be done. The roof is metal attached to metal, no fire up there. About the only thing I had ever built before was a leaking dog house. The house includes a Geo Thermal HVAC, a Flologic water circuit breaker (shuts off if leaking), built-in vacuum system, black and gray waste water system, a water operated garbage disposal, remote control ceiling fans, a winter and summer filtered HVAC air return ( floor level in winter and ceiling level in summer), an elevator ( home made), suspended concrete porch and deck, a UV light system in the HVAC system and one end of the basement is a garage. Harry On 1/17/07, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a local guy who has been building new houses on my street the last couple of years (tears down the old 1kft2 cottages and puts up 3.4kft2 new ones). He is a stickler on all the details. I have spent time with him on site, and have myself done interior trim, restoration, rebuilding, etc. on new and older houses. All the contractors use guest workers and he watches them like a hawk, and makes sure it is done right. When I have worked with these guys I have been a PITA too, but get good results. Foundation and frame are the keys -- if the foundation is not level, square, solid nothing else will be. The frame needs to be level, plumb, square as do all interior frames, doors, windows, etc. (and properly dimensioned). Every night you go around with the plan, a tape, and a level and make sure the day's work was done properly. If not, next morning Jose gets to redo it (they do learn quickly as they are paid by the job). You also check the lumber that is delivered, make sure it is good stuff. Make the vendor take it back if not good, give you credit or replacement. [Materials is a cut-throat business, lots of competition, do not let them off easily. Get to know your sales guy and make him perform.] OSB is OK for sheathing but ply is better. Decking should be TG ply, glued and nailed or screwed (this adds some work and cost but will insure the floor is tight and does not squeak). Check rough stairs closely (glue on these too). Make sure the walls are straight, no warps, twists, bows, etc. -- this raises hell with cabinets, doors, tile, trim, etc. After the house is closed in then you watch the electricians and plumbers closely. A master should check all the work that the guest workers do, and you check him. If it is not right, it gets redone to spec (you would be surprised how many of the trades are smarter than the architects or the owner or builder). Pay close attention to where outlets and switches are and what wires run where. It is hard to fix once the sheetrock is up. The rest of it is fairly easy. On bathrooms go with cement board, not greenboard (sheetrock) if codes allows it. Might cost a little bit more, but it will last forever. Thinset for tiles, not adhesive. Check the trim guys to make sure their joints are tight and fit right. Painters can make up for some but the work should be good to begin with. Check installed door frames for good door fit (uniform gaps). Use quality hardware in your cabinets if you have site-built cabs. Most cabinets today are expensive and cheaply made though they might look nice. Site-built stuff is a similar cost and should be better if you get a good carpenter (here the guest workers seem to do well, I think there is some pride in craftsmanship). Here is where you want to focus. Choke on the cost and go with stone or dense plastic for countertops, use quality fixtures and sinks and appliances. These will have the highest payback when you go to sell, and will last well. You will enjoy them. Quality materials costs add only a small fraction to the total cost, and will last much longer than cheap stuff. Get to know your buidling inspector. He can be a total PITA and your best friend too. DO NOT go cheap on stuff. If you can't do it right and well, don't do it at all. Expect your budget to have some overruns. If you are buying an already-built house, you're on your own. I would find some that are a couple years old by the same builder, go look at them and talk to the owners. Also find some that are currently under construction and check them closely. Don't fall in love with how the house looks. Paint and stuff can cover up a lot of faults. One other thing - if you are building on your own, you might look into hiring a construction manager rather than a builder, and doing your own general contracting and bill paying. The CM can ride herd while you deal
Re: [MBZ] OT The mighty fell My Saab stranded me in cold
It was based on how much fuel went into the tank when I filled up. Brian Steve wrote: Was your observation on tank level based on memory of when last topped up, or the gauge? Gauges can do odd things in the cold, on older cars.
[MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
If it does seem to be bad gas, let me ask: How many of you have been through that, and what recourse do we have, and how did you we best go about pursuing it? I mean besides going in there and chewing the cashier out. I wish there was a way to find out if there have been other complaints regarding the same station. Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Brian talking about saab '84 900 Jim wrote: Can you say 'bad gas'? Fillup followed by a stalled engine a few miles down the road is classic.
Re: [MBZ] Semi OT
Fred, Many times people only send the answers and not the questions they are answering. The trimmed posts are generally useful, but do make it hard to follow if you are no a frequent list lurker as I am. Other thoughts? BillR Jacksonville FL 1981 300SD 284k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederick W Moir Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Subject: [MBZ] Semi OT Calling All Gurus (Gurii?) When downloading and viewing the list mail I sometimes only get one half of the question-answer pair, usually just the answers. Any ideas? TIA Fred Moir Lynn MA Cold Diesel Days. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Semi OT
Hi, All. Should have been clearer. The message that was the question part of this thread was acknowledged by mercedesbounces as received, but I did not get the original post. I did check that my settings in okiebenz had not changed. Over. cue: 'Scarecrow Song from Wizard of OZ Fred Moir Lynn MA Fred, Many times people only send the answers and not the questions they are answering. The trimmed posts are generally useful, but do make it hard to follow if you are no a frequent list lurker as I am. Other thoughts? BillR Jacksonville FL 1981 300SD 284k Calling All Gurus (Gurii?) When downloading and viewing the list mail I sometimes only get one half of the question-answer pair, usually just the answers. Any ideas? TIA Fred Moir Lynn MA Cold Diesel Days
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
Not picking fault or anything similar - just noting an interesting point (at least from my point of view). The soil conditions where you are must be pretty stable. We are on what was glacial Lake Aggisez (not sure I spelled that correctly). The gumbo like clay in the Red River Valley is prone to a lot of movement when dry or wet conditions happen. We are not permitted to use concrete block walls here so far as I know for the basement. We are all poured concrete with rebar but the walls still crack. I have been cleaning and moving junk around in my basement to make more usable space and noting that I have some new cracks in my basement walls of late. Not bad enough to call in the engineers but not something that I like to see. My house was built in 1981 so it is not ancient. My basement floor looks like a roadmap. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Harry Watkins Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Building My wife and I built our 1800 sq ft steel frame home on a full size basement, clear span through out. We did everything except the cement pours/finishing and the HVAC. Built the 10 ft high basement walls without mortar, just dry stack and use a surface bonding material, even a caveman can do it. The steel frame came as a kit and we screwed it together. The walls are over nine inches thick. It took a long time and still has work to be done. The roof is metal attached to metal, no fire up there. About the only thing I had ever built before was a leaking dog house. The house includes a Geo Thermal HVAC, a Flologic water circuit breaker (shuts off if leaking), built-in vacuum system, black and gray waste water system, a water operated garbage disposal, remote control ceiling fans, a winter and summer filtered HVAC air return ( floor level in winter and ceiling level in summer), an elevator ( home made), suspended concrete porch and deck, a UV light system in the HVAC system and one end of the basement is a garage. Harry On 1/17/07, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a local guy who has been building new houses on my street the last couple of years (tears down the old 1kft2 cottages and puts up 3.4kft2 new ones). He is a stickler on all the details. I have spent time with him on site, and have myself done interior trim, restoration, rebuilding, etc. on new and older houses. All the contractors use guest workers and he watches them like a hawk, and makes sure it is done right. When I have worked with these guys I have been a PITA too, but get good results. Foundation and frame are the keys -- if the foundation is not level, square, solid nothing else will be. The frame needs to be level, plumb, square as do all interior frames, doors, windows, etc. (and properly dimensioned). Every night you go around with the plan, a tape, and a level and make sure the day's work was done properly. If not, next morning Jose gets to redo it (they do learn quickly as they are paid by the job). You also check the lumber that is delivered, make sure it is good stuff. Make the vendor take it back if not good, give you credit or replacement. [Materials is a cut-throat business, lots of competition, do not let them off easily. Get to know your sales guy and make him perform.] OSB is OK for sheathing but ply is better. Decking should be TG ply, glued and nailed or screwed (this adds some work and cost but will insure the floor is tight and does not squeak). Check rough stairs closely (glue on these too). Make sure the walls are straight, no warps, twists, bows, etc. -- this raises hell with cabinets, doors, tile, trim, etc. After the house is closed in then you watch the electricians and plumbers closely. A master should check all the work that the guest workers do, and you check him. If it is not right, it gets redone to spec (you would be surprised how many of the trades are smarter than the architects or the owner or builder). Pay close attention to where outlets and switches are and what wires run where. It is hard to fix once the sheetrock is up. The rest of it is fairly easy. On bathrooms go with cement board, not greenboard (sheetrock) if codes allows it. Might cost a little bit more, but it will last forever. Thinset for tiles, not adhesive. Check the trim guys to make sure their joints are tight and fit right. Painters can make up for some but the work should be good to begin with. Check installed door frames for good door fit (uniform gaps). Use quality hardware in your cabinets if you have site-built cabs. Most cabinets today are expensive and cheaply made though they might look nice. Site-built stuff is a similar cost and should be better if you get a good carpenter (here the guest workers seem to do well, I think there is some pride in craftsmanship). Here is where you want to focus. Choke on the
[MBZ] Semi OT redux
Well I just received the original email at 15:03 sent at 12:57, acknowledged at 13:03. Fred dammit, patience! TTFN Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel dummy
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
Harry Watkins wrote: My wife and I built our 1800 sq ft steel frame home on a full size basement, clear span through out. Sounds like a pretty rewarding project. Having watched a commercial remodeling project in one of the local suburbs, though, I have to say around here just dealing with the bewildering array of permits, inspections, and plan submission requirements seems like it'd be a full-time job. I suspect that sort of project is out of reach here for someone without professional help or a lot of experience in the construction trade. The business that was doing the remodel hired professionals and still ended up getting shut down due to not pulling the right permits and having to rework about half of the job due to failed inspections.
Re: [MBZ] Education
Hey Larry, Interesting indeed, and I can attest to its truth. I've gone back to school - never went to college as a young man. I'm now, I guess, an official college senior. I don't know the answers to about half those questions you listed. But then again I'm almost twenty years farther away from my high school and earlier education. We have not been required to learn that information about our country or government here at this respected private college. What we have been required to learn in every single class other than some of the math and science and art ones, is that our country is bad, and that Americans are backwards and should feel guilty and look to Europe for salvation. Traditional Judeo-Christian concepts are regularly ridiculed and laughed at by the enlightened Phd instructors, history is revised, and the Koran and Bhuddism etc. are looked to for inspiration. Wisdom can also be found by looking to Mother Earth and the animals (of which we are the most wicked). This is a Catholic college. Oh well, whatever it takes to be able to get a decent job. Brian On 1/17/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In our recent discussions about education, etc - I found this in my in box today -- the Intercollegiate Studies Institute by the University of Connecticut's Department of Public Policy, surveyed 14,094 college freshmen and seniors at 50 U.S. colleges and universities from Massachusetts to California. It found a stunning ignorance. Seniors scored an average of 53.2 on the 60-question civics test. That's a big, fat F. More than half of college seniors could not identify the correct century in which the Jamestown colony was founded or name the battle that ended the American Revolution. Truly frightening, more than half also did not know that the Bill of Rights forbids the federal government from establishing a national religion. These are college seniors. Among the institutions whose students were surveyed: Dartmouth, Yale, Harvard, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of Michigan. It should go without saying that in a republic, civic education is a fundamental necessity. If even our elite college graduates have no idea what the First Amendment does, the country is in trouble. I thought it interesting -- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Tom Hargrave wrote: I'm sure that today's Mercedes are more reliable (better quality) than those manufactured in the 90's and those manufactured in the 90's are more reliable (better quality) than those manufactured in the 80's, etc, etc. A lot of the complaints seem to be in the fit and finish category. Interior pieces falling off, paint flaking off, etc. Those things don't make a car unreliable, but they do really hurt its image. It seems like when a car maker wants to cut costs, the interior is the first place they go. GM's current cars, for example, drive pretty nicely but they have the interior materials of a much cheaper vehicle. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/631 - Release Date: 1/16/2007 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Semi OT redux
Do the messages talk back to you, Fred Yes, time delay in emails is something that is often frustrating and occasionally problematic. My wife is deaf and info is easier to send via email, but it occasionally is hours, rather than seconds, in getting there. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederick W Moir Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:06 PM To: Mercedes Subject: [MBZ] Semi OT redux Well I just received the original email at 15:03 sent at 12:57, acknowledged at 13:03. Fred dammit, patience! TTFN Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel dummy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
Any wanting a building nightmare could warp back to the Homestead, FL area in the years after hurricane Andrew. The codes were changed every few weeks [or so it seemed]. A builder down there built a housing complex [Ryan homes, and he also donated one to the org. I worked for] only to have the city change the rating requirement for the sliding glass doors after they were built. He donated 125 door sets to Habitat for Humanity and installed new ones. After waiting for months to get the specs for street lighting he installed lamps to get the much needed project finished, then they decided on the new specs ... Had to change all of those, too. I knew several people in the area at the time and that was a constant source of complaint for years ... Not that upgrading standards wasn't a needed thing, but it was most difficult for the EXTREMELY busy construction / reconstruction folks. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Brodbeck Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:13 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Building Harry Watkins wrote: My wife and I built our 1800 sq ft steel frame home on a full size basement, clear span through out. Sounds like a pretty rewarding project. Having watched a commercial remodeling project in one of the local suburbs, though, I have to say around here just dealing with the bewildering array of permits, inspections, and plan submission requirements seems like it'd be a full-time job. I suspect that sort of project is out of reach here for someone without professional help or a lot of experience in the construction trade. The business that was doing the remodel hired professionals and still ended up getting shut down due to not pulling the right permits and having to rework about half of the job due to failed inspections. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] radial before cranking
The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting- you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application) You pull it through by hand. Outside. RLE/R-985 pilot in the dim dark past
Re: [MBZ] dry sumps
The dry sump was also used on the M100 engine, Triumph motorcycles and lots of aircraft applications. I think the 300SL (not the 90s one, but the real 300SL) had a dry sump. I believe the water cooled Allisons, Rolls Royce and Daimler-Benz V-12 aircraft engines of WWII were all dry sump How could you forget the Porsche 911? RLE
Re: [MBZ] dry sumps
Also Harley Davidson motorcycles. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:21 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] dry sumps The dry sump was also used on the M100 engine, Triumph motorcycles and lots of aircraft applications. I think the 300SL (not the 90s one, but the real 300SL) had a dry sump. I believe the water cooled Allisons, Rolls Royce and Daimler-Benz V-12 aircraft engines of WWII were all dry sump How could you forget the Porsche 911? RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] radial before cranking
Is the oil collected in the bottom why they usually make some smoke when they fire up? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:17 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] radial before cranking The sump is a separate tank - I think they call these 'dry sump' engines. Oil doe s collect in the bottom cylinders while it's sitting- you have slowly crank the engine through a couple of turns before trying to start it (aircraft application) You pull it through by hand. Outside. RLE/R-985 pilot in the dim dark past ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Liquid weights
Avgas and JetA weigh in at 6#/gal, water is 8ish, I would guess oil is closer to 6, maybe a bit more. A big bucket swinging around on a wet oily wing seems to weigh a TON! For flight planning purposes, avgas weighs 6 pounds per gallon and engine oil weighs 7.5 pounds. Or so said the FAA when I went to ground school. Of course, standard passenger weight was 170 pounds in those days and just recently that number was raised since the percentage of obese passengers has gone up. Way up. BTW, the oil tanks in a Grumman Goose hold 14 gallons per side. RLE
Re: [MBZ] Liquid weights
You mean to say that only passenger weight went up? I seem to recall taking my check ride with an instructor that had to sit sideways in the 150, and I was crammed up against the door. And the 150 had the extended range tankage, which of course was kept full in the Alaska temperatures, so that we took almost 5000 ft of runway and stayed in ground effect for another mile just to get in the air. I suspect we had about 500 lbs of souls on board that 2-passenger aircraft! Werner - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Liquid weights Avgas and JetA weigh in at 6#/gal, water is 8ish, I would guess oil is closer to 6, maybe a bit more. A big bucket swinging around on a wet oily wing seems to weigh a TON! For flight planning purposes, avgas weighs 6 pounds per gallon and engine oil weighs 7.5 pounds. Or so said the FAA when I went to ground school. Of course, standard passenger weight was 170 pounds in those days and just recently that number was raised since the percentage of obese passengers has gone up. Way up. BTW, the oil tanks in a Grumman Goose hold 14 gallons per side. RLE
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
Randy - unless your builder was exceptional, there probably isn't much rebar in the concrete - floor slab, foundation, or walls. From the 1950s on, many builders skipped rebar in foundations, and used wire mesh in slabs when they thought of it. And all that on earth that wasn't fully compacted or undisturbed. How often do you think a laborer just shovels in a bit of dirt because they want to save a bit on the concrete? Or water down the mix to make it easier to work, thereby weakening the final product?? Werner - Original Message - From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Building Not picking fault or anything similar - just noting an interesting point (at least from my point of view). The soil conditions where you are must be pretty stable. We are on what was glacial Lake Aggisez (not sure I spelled that correctly). The gumbo like clay in the Red River Valley is prone to a lot of movement when dry or wet conditions happen. We are not permitted to use concrete block walls here so far as I know for the basement. We are all poured concrete with rebar but the walls still crack. I have been cleaning and moving junk around in my basement to make more usable space and noting that I have some new cracks in my basement walls of late. Not bad enough to call in the engineers but not something that I like to see. My house was built in 1981 so it is not ancient. My basement floor looks like a roadmap. Randy
[MBZ] Expensive M-B driving
I see where the lady in Texas that used her M-B to run over her cheating husband in 2002 has been ordered to pay her in-laws $3.75 million. She is already convicted of murder and serving a sentence of 20 years in prison. So who said driving an M-B is inexpensive?? Werner
Re: [MBZ] OT House Building
Hey Werner Probably not a lot of rebar. I was there when they setup the basement forms but really cannot remember what there was. None in the floor of course. We added onto the house in 87 and the engineer that helped to design and then stamped the drawings did not want us to cut holes in the concrete wall into the part that is now crawl space under the new part because he feared we would cut rebar and reduce the strength of the wall. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Werner Fehlauer Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Building Randy - unless your builder was exceptional, there probably isn't much rebar in the concrete - floor slab, foundation, or walls. From the 1950s on, many builders skipped rebar in foundations, and used wire mesh in slabs when they thought of it. And all that on earth that wasn't fully compacted or undisturbed. How often do you think a laborer just shovels in a bit of dirt because they want to save a bit on the concrete? Or water down the mix to make it easier to work, thereby weakening the final product?? Werner - Original Message - From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT House Building Not picking fault or anything similar - just noting an interesting point (at least from my point of view). The soil conditions where you are must be pretty stable. We are on what was glacial Lake Aggisez (not sure I spelled that correctly). The gumbo like clay in the Red River Valley is prone to a lot of movement when dry or wet conditions happen. We are not permitted to use concrete block walls here so far as I know for the basement. We are all poured concrete with rebar but the walls still crack. I have been cleaning and moving junk around in my basement to make more usable space and noting that I have some new cracks in my basement walls of late. Not bad enough to call in the engineers but not something that I like to see. My house was built in 1981 so it is not ancient. My basement floor looks like a roadmap. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Thank you for your succinct information. I didn't know that water was the only thing that could contaminate gasoline. Since it is, my car's prognosis is much better. Brian On 1/19/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [OT] Radial Engines
I heard from a WWII airman that a B-26 used 50 gal of fuel and 5 gal of oil and hour in cruise flight, more at full throttle. Those old radial engines were sloppy -- oil dribbled out the pushrod tubes, the head gaskets, and jug seals, and they do burn quite a bit. 1940's technology, mostly -- cars used a lot of oil in those days, too. Newer design are better, but so long as they are air cooled, they run pretty hot by water cooled standards, and it's hard to keep them sealed up. They all use dry sumps -- there is an oil collection ring on either side of the single crankpin where the oil collects and it's pumped form there back into the main tank where the air bubbles separate out. The pressure feed pump draws off the bottom of the main tank instead of the crankcase. Some designs used stacked pumps (scavenger on top, feed on bottom) on a common shaft -- that way you at least had sump oiling. When the feed pump shears, two things used to happen: The pilot lost control of the propellor pitch (oil pressure operated) and the engine seized from oil starvation and usually the oil on the engine caught fire from the heat -- there are plenty of stories about this. Pan Am and BOAC both had at least one instance where the magnesium propellor housing caught fire on a seized engine at altitude when the oil pressure dropped too fast to feather out the prop -- must have been quite a sight, burning magnesium spinning off the blades. Luckily, the housing failed and the prop spun off and away from the airframe before the wing burned throught on that Boeing 377, and the fire went out. An oil pressure failure caused Howard Hughes to crash the experimental twin interceptor during WWII -- an oil seal failed on the counter-rotating prop system causing loss of pressure and inadvertent reverse pitch on one side. Needless to say, the plane instantly became unflyable with power on that engine. He'd probably been OK if he'd understood what was going on in time to shut the engine off, but it's rather hard, I hear, to figure that out during a flight emergency Odd that only the Russians managed to get a reliable counter-rotating dual prop setup to work during the 50's -- very well, too as the Tupolev Bear uses them, along with any number of freighter designs. Peter
