Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Jim Cathey]

Except that it took SO LONG when it was cold, and if one plug burnt 
out,
they were all dead - series wiring. I was really glad to get a car 
with

the new style plugs.


Alligator clip jumper over the bad one, and go on?


Well, that was a problem with the series plugs somewhat independent of
the way they were actuated. Most of the battery's energy was converted 
to

heat OUTSIDE the cylinder head, where you don't need it.


A bit more than half.  If only they'd put the toaster rack inside
the air cleaner or intake manifold.


Oh for a MANUAL heating/cooling system like the one on our W115: direct
warm air to the feet, if it gets too warm topside, open the center vent
for cool air, vary both levers as needed. I have wondered if I could
modify the automatic controller to allow that kind of flexibility.


Tres easy to cause the center vents to open, on many systems
those can't be heated.  (On the 123 heat comes out of them if
they're open.)  But they'd be on full blast.  Maybe you
could retrofit the manual flap lever?  Would be a bit of
a project.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Jim Cathey]

You mean like, "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in
the pot nine days old" ?


IIRC that's pease porridge.  Just as yummy, no matter how spelt!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Craig]

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:51:46 -0600 OK Don  wrote:

> Except that it took SO LONG when it was cold, and if one plug burnt out,
> they were all dead - series wiring. I was really glad to get a car with
> the new style plugs.

Well, that was a problem with the series plugs somewhat independent of
the way they were actuated. Most of the battery's energy was converted to
heat OUTSIDE the cylinder head, where you don't need it.


> Auto climate control is SO good, that I insisted on it in the VW when it
> was replacing the 300D 2.5T. Yes, I had the dreaded ACC II as well, in
> the 450SLC. Once repaired, it worked great, as long as you used the AC
> monthly during the winter and changed the coolant yearly.

I am constantly running into situations where my feet are cold, but
because of New Mexico's abundant sunshine, from waist up I am quite warm.
It happened again today with our drive to Albuquerque. The "automatically 
set and control the temperature at the top of the windshield where the
sensed air intake is" controller just does NOT work.

Oh for a MANUAL heating/cooling system like the one on our W115: direct
warm air to the feet, if it gets too warm topside, open the center vent
for cool air, vary both levers as needed. I have wondered if I could
modify the automatic controller to allow that kind of flexibility.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Craig]

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 22:37:56 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

> Looks like Mitch's mail account hiccuped.  It's done this before.

Mitch's?  Or Kalebs?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[OK Don]

Except that it took SO LONG when it was cold, and if one plug burnt out,
they were all dead - series wiring. I was really glad to get a car with the
new style plugs.

Auto climate control is SO good, that I insisted on it in the VW when it
was replacing the 300D 2.5T. Yes, I had the dreaded ACC II as well, in the
450SLC. Once repaired, it worked great, as long as you used the AC monthly
during the winter and changed the coolant yearly.


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Gary Hurst  wrote:

>  makes so much more sense to me.  no relay to fail.  hold it extra long on
> cold days.  nearly as senseless as automatic climate control



-- 
OK Don, who does not pine for the old days -

2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[rogerhga]

Jaime, 
Thanks for the info on the glow plugs. I'll try to use the tapers if I have 
enough, otherwise, I'll go with the old style. I'm having trouble starting the 
80 300SD now. The last time this happened it was the relay that had gone bad, 
but I'm going with a filter change and new glow plugs to start (the relay for 
this car if you can find it, is expensive). This car will drain the battery 
before the cylinders get hot enough to start. This has been several years, but 
if memory serves (and most times it doesn't), the 78, 79, and 80 all had 
slightly different relays as MB was trying to get it right and then in 81-85, 
they used a different relay. I have a totally new relay for my 83 300D (still 
in the box), but it won't work on the 80 300SD, different plug/pin 
configuration, etc. Oh the fun of owning old diesel MBs. 
Thanks again for the info. 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) 
www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) 

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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Dan Penoff]

Looks like Mitch's mail account hiccuped.  It's done this before.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Craig  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 20:37:33 -0600 Mountain Man 
> wrote:
> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>> How's about now?
>> 
>> Nope - no pics, 9-days old.
> 
> You mean like, "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in
> the pot nine days old" ?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Gary Hurst]

 makes so much more sense to me.  no relay to fail.  hold it extra long on
cold days.  nearly as senseless as automatic climate control


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Craig  wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:09:51 -0500 Gary Hurst 
> wrote:
>
> > i still miss the manually controlled glow plug setup
>
> With the big pull knob and the "salt shaker" indicator.
>
>
> Craig
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Craig]

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:09:51 -0500 Gary Hurst 
wrote:

> i still miss the manually controlled glow plug setup

With the big pull knob and the "salt shaker" indicator.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Craig]

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 20:37:33 -0600 Mountain Man 
wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> > How's about now?
> 
> Nope - no pics, 9-days old.

You mean like, "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in
the pot nine days old" ?


Craig

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[MBZ] Glow plug current draw [was Re: What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?]

[Craig]

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 21:37:31 -0500 Jaime Kopchinski 
wrote:

> I believe the tapered ones are all that are available (from MB at least)
> now.  They're the "fast glow" plugs.  There were pencil plugs available
> that were not so fast, which is what your 300SD might have originally
> come with... many people don't realize this.  This is well documented
> in the workshop manual:
> http://handbook.w116.org/Engine/617/15-705.pdf

Page two of this document, under "Design of pencil element glow plugs",
says,

  When the glow system is switched on, each glow plug is subject to
  a current of approx. 20 amps (peak impulse of approx. 40 amps).

  Under the influence of increasing heat, the inherent resistance
  of the glow plug increases and will limit the current to approx.
  8 amps.


Page three of this document, under "Design of quick-start pencil element
glow plugs", says,

  When the glow system is switched on, each glow plug will be
  subject to a current of approx. 30 amps.

  The glow plug is heated very quickly by heater coil. With
  increasing temperature, the control coil increases its resistance
  and limits the current to approx. 8 - 15 amps. This will protect
  the glow plug against overloads.


Both pages have graphs of current-versus-time and temperature-versus-time.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Jim Cathey]

I thought that a single plug started out over 20 and quickly dropped 
as it heated.


Something like that.  Cold, the GP's are about 0.7 ohms.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Battery charger RIP

[Jim Cathey]

just makes a faint humming sound and puts out no current.


Diode?  If the humming is 'normal' level it would be
something like that.  So long as it isn't the transformer
you could probably fix it easily.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Gary Hurst]

i still miss the manually controlled glow plug setup


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Jaime Kopchinski  wrote:

> I believe the tapered ones are all that are available (from MB at least)
> now.  They're the "fast glow" plugs.  There were pencil plugs available
> that were not so fast, which is what your 300SD might have originally come
> with... many people don't realize this.  This is well documented in the
> workshop manual:
> http://handbook.w116.org/Engine/617/15-705.pdf
>
> I have the current MB part "fast" plugs in my 79 300SD and they work great.
>  The GP light glows longer than necessary, but that isn't really an issue.
>
> Jaime
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Sorry guys, but this is an actual car question. I have two different
> > appearing glow plugs that are used in the old 617 diesel engines. The
> Bosch
> > are of two types, one tapers at the end and the other remains the same
> size
> > to the end. I also have a Beru that is the same size all the way to the
> > end, no taper. The Bosch are listed as 11 V (I assume volt?) while the
> Beru
> > are listed as 11.5 V (again, I assume volt?). Which is better for a 1980
> > 300SD 617 engine? I think the tapers are considered the extended glow
> while
> > the non-tapers are the regular glow plugs...is this a correct
> assumption? I
> > purchased both sets, but it's been a long time and I just don't remember,
> > yes, old age has already set in :-)
> > Thanks for any suggestions, clarifications, etc.
> > Best Wishes,
> > Roger
> > Roger Hale
> > Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
> > Monroe, Ga.
> > 770-267-0850
> > www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new)
> > www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique)
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



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Re: [MBZ] Rotella Moto oil 15 W 50 WTF?

[G Mann]

Dwight, Yes.. I presumed it is an 82 300TD wagon?  Please and thank you.
Grant


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:

> Granr, Are you talking  about the 82 TD I mentioned?
> On Dec 2, 2013 8:34 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
>
> > Let the vultures start to circle.. ha..
> >
> > On your 81 TD... any chance it has a good passenger side rear window..
> > cargo area rear window, not a door window..  Seems the neighbors
> > landscapers caught a rock with the mower and put it through the window...
> >
> > If you have a serviceable one, please let me know.. We'll take it to PM
> to
> > do the deal then.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Grant... in Phoenix.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Tom Norris 
> wrote:
> >
> > > (gmail is being ornery today and not letting me append an *OT* to the
> > > subject line... grrr)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <
> > astrasfo...@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Someone needs to come up with the earliest instance in which Rodney
> > > > Dangerfield uttered these famous words.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > You wanna talk about No Respect, you should get a Smart ForTwo.  But
> > don't
> > > settle for the wimpy US-market-only version.  I took the gray-market
> > route
> > > and found a nice diesel cabriolet a few years back.  Especially on the
> > > Interstate highways, folks will pass simply because the car is so
> small.
> > I
> > > just downshift, pedal to the floor and pass them back.  You should see
> > the
> > > looks I get from the driver being passed - though every now and again I
> > > will get some awfully nasty looks from guys in large pickups with
> > gunracks
> > > and covered with NRA stickers.(the kind guy that would get mighty riled
> > by
> > > insulting the guys momma or his huntin' dawgs) But, hey, I support the
> > NRA
> > > too -- I'm just driving a roller skate. An 800cc turbo - intercooled,
> > > 3-cylinder Daimler AG rollerskate, but a roller skate nonetheless.
> > >
> > > As I'm writing this, I realise I have not posted an intro before now,
> so
> > > here goes -- name is Tom and located in Mufreesboro, Tennessee.  I've
> > been
> > > a Benz diesel fan for many years and at my previous location of
> > Manchester
> > > I had (literally) a back yard full of assorted W123's in various states
> > of
> > > repair.
> > > I kept watch on the assorted local area (Nashville, basically) for
> cheap
> > or
> > > free Benzen to repair or part out.  I then sold the cars and parts on
> > eBay.
> > >  This was about ten years ago when it was much easier. Counting both
> > > repaired and parts cars, I think the total sold was around 8,
> including a
> > > 1962 404S Unimog that I miss dearly, as it drew more stares than the
> > > Smart...  My last *REAL*
> > > Mercedes Benz I gave to my brother and his wife a couple years ago when
> > > both their vehicles died at once, also included a parts car.
> > >
> > > The parts car is for sale, please email me off list and I give you more
> > > info.
> > > It is a nineteen-eighty-one 300TD that will need a dowtothemetal sand,
> > > prime and paint, but engine and drive train are good, and the body has
> no
> > > rust-through. The rest should be discussed off list, due to the sheer
> > > sadness of the tale.
> > >
> > > I think that is enough yammering for one day.
> > >
> > > I wish all the US folk a Happy Thanksgiving, and with all the recent
> > > weather, I especially wish you a safe one.
> > >
> > > Tom in Murfreesboro
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Mountain Man]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> How's about now?

Nope - no pics, 9-days old.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[Jaime Kopchinski]

I believe the tapered ones are all that are available (from MB at least)
now.  They're the "fast glow" plugs.  There were pencil plugs available
that were not so fast, which is what your 300SD might have originally come
with... many people don't realize this.  This is well documented in the
workshop manual:
http://handbook.w116.org/Engine/617/15-705.pdf

I have the current MB part "fast" plugs in my 79 300SD and they work great.
 The GP light glows longer than necessary, but that isn't really an issue.

Jaime



On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM,  wrote:

> Sorry guys, but this is an actual car question. I have two different
> appearing glow plugs that are used in the old 617 diesel engines. The Bosch
> are of two types, one tapers at the end and the other remains the same size
> to the end. I also have a Beru that is the same size all the way to the
> end, no taper. The Bosch are listed as 11 V (I assume volt?) while the Beru
> are listed as 11.5 V (again, I assume volt?). Which is better for a 1980
> 300SD 617 engine? I think the tapers are considered the extended glow while
> the non-tapers are the regular glow plugs...is this a correct assumption? I
> purchased both sets, but it's been a long time and I just don't remember,
> yes, old age has already set in :-)
> Thanks for any suggestions, clarifications, etc.
> Best Wishes,
> Roger
> Roger Hale
> Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
> Monroe, Ga.
> 770-267-0850
> www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new)
> www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique)
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>



-- 
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http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Coffee Question For Darren

[Mountain Man]

Rick wrote:
> Could Bowtruss roast up some extra caffeinated stuff like this?
>

Darren - Is your benz put away for the winter?
If not, maybe you would meed us further west from where you roast
downtown?  Meet at best Chicago dog place according to Huffington post
and bring some of your espresso fresh roasted.  Or, someplace like
that.  I want to try your coffee and espresso blend.  Maybe you have
retail place waaay west/north that stocks fresh roasted BowTruss?  Or,
perhaps you have someone that works at BowTruss that visits
Elgin/Algonquin/Aurora or waaay west on weekends/holidays? to carry
fresh roast out to me?
Thanks.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Rotella Moto oil 15 W 50 WTF?

[Dwight Giles]

Granr, Are you talking  about the 82 TD I mentioned?
On Dec 2, 2013 8:34 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:

> Let the vultures start to circle.. ha..
>
> On your 81 TD... any chance it has a good passenger side rear window..
> cargo area rear window, not a door window..  Seems the neighbors
> landscapers caught a rock with the mower and put it through the window...
>
> If you have a serviceable one, please let me know.. We'll take it to PM to
> do the deal then.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant... in Phoenix.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Tom Norris  wrote:
>
> > (gmail is being ornery today and not letting me append an *OT* to the
> > subject line... grrr)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <
> astrasfo...@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Someone needs to come up with the earliest instance in which Rodney
> > > Dangerfield uttered these famous words.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > You wanna talk about No Respect, you should get a Smart ForTwo.  But
> don't
> > settle for the wimpy US-market-only version.  I took the gray-market
> route
> > and found a nice diesel cabriolet a few years back.  Especially on the
> > Interstate highways, folks will pass simply because the car is so small.
> I
> > just downshift, pedal to the floor and pass them back.  You should see
> the
> > looks I get from the driver being passed - though every now and again I
> > will get some awfully nasty looks from guys in large pickups with
> gunracks
> > and covered with NRA stickers.(the kind guy that would get mighty riled
> by
> > insulting the guys momma or his huntin' dawgs) But, hey, I support the
> NRA
> > too -- I'm just driving a roller skate. An 800cc turbo - intercooled,
> > 3-cylinder Daimler AG rollerskate, but a roller skate nonetheless.
> >
> > As I'm writing this, I realise I have not posted an intro before now, so
> > here goes -- name is Tom and located in Mufreesboro, Tennessee.  I've
> been
> > a Benz diesel fan for many years and at my previous location of
> Manchester
> > I had (literally) a back yard full of assorted W123's in various states
> of
> > repair.
> > I kept watch on the assorted local area (Nashville, basically) for cheap
> or
> > free Benzen to repair or part out.  I then sold the cars and parts on
> eBay.
> >  This was about ten years ago when it was much easier. Counting both
> > repaired and parts cars, I think the total sold was around 8, including a
> > 1962 404S Unimog that I miss dearly, as it drew more stares than the
> > Smart...  My last *REAL*
> > Mercedes Benz I gave to my brother and his wife a couple years ago when
> > both their vehicles died at once, also included a parts car.
> >
> > The parts car is for sale, please email me off list and I give you more
> > info.
> > It is a nineteen-eighty-one 300TD that will need a dowtothemetal sand,
> > prime and paint, but engine and drive train are good, and the body has no
> > rust-through. The rest should be discussed off list, due to the sheer
> > sadness of the tale.
> >
> > I think that is enough yammering for one day.
> >
> > I wish all the US folk a Happy Thanksgiving, and with all the recent
> > weather, I especially wish you a safe one.
> >
> > Tom in Murfreesboro
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Diesel Smart and other non-MB Diesel cars

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Dec 2, 2013 5:28 PM, "OK Don"  wrote:
>
> Welcome to the group Tom.
> What is the fuel economy for the Diesel Smart car?

And how on Earth did you get one past EPA/NHTSA/etc.?
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Battery charger RIP

[Dwight Giles]

Wiw. WT Grant. That's a blast from the past.
On Dec 2, 2013 6:53 PM, "David & Kristin Gilmore" 
wrote:

>  Alas, I have I had to replace my battery charger.  My good old 3 amp
> model from W. T. Grant now just makes a faint humming sound and puts out no
> current.  I took off the cover and looked for something obviously wrong but
> it just looks dusty.  (I will keep it in case someone like Dan P or Jim C
> comes by who probably would know how to fix it.) Funny the things one
> remembers.  I bought it in 1956 from a store in downtown Joliet, Illinois.
>  The place had hardwood floors that were noisy to walk on.  It was for a
> Triumph T110 motorcycle that was my first legal vehicle.
>
>  I thought about asking the list for advice on a new purchase but
> found they are so cheap it didn't seem reasonable to bother about it.  For
> $29.60 from Walmart the new one senses the state of the battery and adjusts
> from 6 amps down to trickle charge automatically.  You can't hook it up
> backwards - it won't work and tells you of your error.  And since I am 73
> it won't have last as long as the first one.
>
>  Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV
>
>
>  Most ant societies are organized for total warfare.
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Rotella Moto oil 15 W 50 WTF?

[G Mann]

Let the vultures start to circle.. ha..

On your 81 TD... any chance it has a good passenger side rear window..
cargo area rear window, not a door window..  Seems the neighbors
landscapers caught a rock with the mower and put it through the window...

If you have a serviceable one, please let me know.. We'll take it to PM to
do the deal then.

Thanks,
Grant... in Phoenix.


On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Tom Norris  wrote:

> (gmail is being ornery today and not letting me append an *OT* to the
> subject line... grrr)
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  >wrote:
>
> > Someone needs to come up with the earliest instance in which Rodney
> > Dangerfield uttered these famous words.
> >
> >
> >
> You wanna talk about No Respect, you should get a Smart ForTwo.  But don't
> settle for the wimpy US-market-only version.  I took the gray-market route
> and found a nice diesel cabriolet a few years back.  Especially on the
> Interstate highways, folks will pass simply because the car is so small. I
> just downshift, pedal to the floor and pass them back.  You should see the
> looks I get from the driver being passed - though every now and again I
> will get some awfully nasty looks from guys in large pickups with gunracks
> and covered with NRA stickers.(the kind guy that would get mighty riled by
> insulting the guys momma or his huntin' dawgs) But, hey, I support the NRA
> too -- I'm just driving a roller skate. An 800cc turbo - intercooled,
> 3-cylinder Daimler AG rollerskate, but a roller skate nonetheless.
>
> As I'm writing this, I realise I have not posted an intro before now, so
> here goes -- name is Tom and located in Mufreesboro, Tennessee.  I've been
> a Benz diesel fan for many years and at my previous location of Manchester
> I had (literally) a back yard full of assorted W123's in various states of
> repair.
> I kept watch on the assorted local area (Nashville, basically) for cheap or
> free Benzen to repair or part out.  I then sold the cars and parts on eBay.
>  This was about ten years ago when it was much easier. Counting both
> repaired and parts cars, I think the total sold was around 8, including a
> 1962 404S Unimog that I miss dearly, as it drew more stares than the
> Smart...  My last *REAL*
> Mercedes Benz I gave to my brother and his wife a couple years ago when
> both their vehicles died at once, also included a parts car.
>
> The parts car is for sale, please email me off list and I give you more
> info.
> It is a nineteen-eighty-one 300TD that will need a dowtothemetal sand,
> prime and paint, but engine and drive train are good, and the body has no
> rust-through. The rest should be discussed off list, due to the sheer
> sadness of the tale.
>
> I think that is enough yammering for one day.
>
> I wish all the US folk a Happy Thanksgiving, and with all the recent
> weather, I especially wish you a safe one.
>
> Tom in Murfreesboro
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Diesel Smart and other non-MB Diesel cars

[OK Don]

Welcome to the group Tom.
What is the fuel economy for the Diesel Smart car? IIRC, it was supposed to
get around 70 mpg?
Our Diesel Passat get's around 44, though I did hit 53 on one leg of a trip
(low speed limits).
I have had a plethora of old MBs, but dumped them all when I went to new
cars (and could not bring myself to pay the new MB price) for a respite
from auto repair so that I can focus on old aircraft repair instead.

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Tom Norris  wrote:

> (gmail is being ornery today and not letting me append an *OT* to the
> subject line... grrr)
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  >wrote:
>
> > Someone needs to come up with the earliest instance in which Rodney
> > Dangerfield uttered these famous words.
> >
> >
> >
> You wanna talk about No Respect, you should get a Smart ForTwo.  But don't
> settle for the wimpy US-market-only version.  I took the gray-market route
> and found a nice diesel cabriolet a few years back.  Especially on the
> Interstate highways, folks will pass simply because the car is so small. I
> just downshift, pedal to the floor and pass them back.  You should see the
> looks I get from the driver being passed - though every now and again I
> will get some awfully nasty looks from guys in large pickups with gunracks
> and covered with NRA stickers.(the kind guy that would get mighty riled by
> insulting the guys momma or his huntin' dawgs) But, hey, I support the NRA
> too -- I'm just driving a roller skate. An 800cc turbo - intercooled,
> 3-cylinder Daimler AG rollerskate, but a roller skate nonetheless.




-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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[MBZ] What is difference in 617 Diesel Glow Plugs?

[rogerhga]

Sorry guys, but this is an actual car question. I have two different appearing 
glow plugs that are used in the old 617 diesel engines. The Bosch are of two 
types, one tapers at the end and the other remains the same size to the end. I 
also have a Beru that is the same size all the way to the end, no taper. The 
Bosch are listed as 11 V (I assume volt?) while the Beru are listed as 11.5 V 
(again, I assume volt?). Which is better for a 1980 300SD 617 engine? I think 
the tapers are considered the extended glow while the non-tapers are the 
regular glow plugs...is this a correct assumption? I purchased both sets, but 
it's been a long time and I just don't remember, yes, old age has already set 
in :-) 
Thanks for any suggestions, clarifications, etc. 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) 
www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique) 

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Fmiser]

> > > Rich Thomas wrote:
> > > They should show just a few ohms of resistance, like 3 or 4 if
> > > I recall.  Zero not good, infinite not good.

> > Mitch Haley wrote:
> > 
> > Don't they draw 20-30 amps when cold?
> > That would imply about half an ohm.

> Rich Thomas wrote:
> 
> Divide by 5

Divide what by 5?  The 0.5 ohm each?  To figure the total
resistance of all the plugs (presuming parallel glowplugs) is
1/((1/0.6)*5) 

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Craig]

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 18:33:48 -0500 Mitch Haley  wrote:

> I thought that a single plug started out over 20 and quickly dropped as
> it heated. Paging Mr Cathey...

I'm not Cathy, but yes, the plugs do draw on the order of 15-20A each when
they are cold.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Battery charger RIP

[Mitch Haley]

David & Kristin Gilmore wrote:
For $29.60 from Walmart the new one senses the state of the battery and 
adjusts from 6 amps down to trickle charge automatically.  You can't 
hook it up backwards - it won't work and tells you of your error. 


And probably will refuse to operate if you connect it to a dead battery.
The only thing more annoying than finding out you left the lights on overnight 
is having the battery charger say "I'm still waiting for you to hook me up to a 
battery" after you connect the leads.


Mitch.

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[MBZ] OT - Battery charger RIP

[David & Kristin Gilmore]

 Alas, I have I had to replace my battery charger.  My good old 
3 amp model from W. T. Grant now just makes a faint humming sound and 
puts out no current.  I took off the cover and looked for something 
obviously wrong but it just looks dusty.  (I will keep it in case 
someone like Dan P or Jim C comes by who probably would know how to 
fix it.) Funny the things one remembers.  I bought it in 1956 from a 
store in downtown Joliet, Illinois.  The place had hardwood floors 
that were noisy to walk on.  It was for a Triumph T110 motorcycle 
that was my first legal vehicle.


 I thought about asking the list for advice on a new purchase 
but found they are so cheap it didn't seem reasonable to bother about 
it.  For $29.60 from Walmart the new one senses the state of the 
battery and adjusts from 6 amps down to trickle charge 
automatically.  You can't hook it up backwards - it won't work and 
tells you of your error.  And since I am 73 it won't have last as 
long as the first one.


 Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV


 Most ant societies are organized for total warfare.


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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Mitch Haley]

I thought that a single plug started out over 20 and quickly dropped as it 
heated.
Paging Mr Cathey...

Mitch.

Rich Thomas wrote:

Divide by 5

--R


On 12/2/13 2:09 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Rich Thomas wrote:
They should show just a few ohms of resistance, like 3 or 4 if I 
recall.  Zero not good, infinite not good.


Don't they draw 20-30 amps when cold?
That would imply about half an ohm.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] Carfax?

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

yea I can run a carfax anytime, I have access to several dealer 
accounts.


On 11/29/2013 2:47 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Does anyone have an active Carfax account I could check a VIN with? I would be 
will in to cover your costs.

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] MB Spring Compressor

[Max Dillon]

Sounds like a great deal, I think that Klann is the "official" maker of the MB 
tool.  Baum is probably decent enough.


I've got Rich's example, I think it is JTC?  I've got my '95 car in pieces now, 
used the compressor to remove both front springs, finished up the left side 
lower control arm (new inner bushings) and re-installed that spring/arm before 
Thanksgiving.  Had to wait for order of new eccentric pins (bolts) to arrive to 
finish the right side, should be able to put that together later this week and 
then schedule an alignment.

Getting OT, but someone in the past (Philip?) recommended purchasing new front 
lower control arms instead of replacing the ball joints and the bushings.  The 
new arms should come with new bushings and new ball joint.  After replacing 
ball joints and bushings, I would now agree with that recommendation.  The 
up-front $$ are more, but you will save much time and aggravation and eliminate 
the requirement for special tools except for the spring compressor and a 
sawz-all, which is one "special" tool not listed in the MB repair manual which 
will probably be required to cut off the rusted eccentric bolts.


Very respectfully,

/s/
Max Dillon
'87 300TD 334k miles (Off with the head AGAIN??!!)
'95 E300 330k miles (daily driving duties)
'73 Balboa 20 (High & dry until the head is back on)
Charleston SC



 From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Max Dillon  
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] MB Spring Compressor
 

I bought one like that off a guy who used it to put lowering springs on an SEC, 
red box too.  Max found it on CL, we were gonna go havvies but I just bought it 
to have around.  I used it on the SD when I rebuilt the front suspension.  
Worked OK except for once the screw bottomed out it when I let off the 
compression it would not engage again, I had to take the whole deal to an auto 
parts store where the guy let me use some external compressors to get it 
skweezed in enough to re-engage that thing, then I cranked it down a bit and 
got the external ones off, it worked fine to get the springs off and on, just 
be careful to get it lined up right with the plates.

I think I paid the guy $80 or $90 for that one, Max has it now, he is going to 
do something with one of his cars.  In general those things scare the hell out 
of me, but this one seemed sturdy enough. $100 would probably be a decent deal, 
you could sell it again if you ever need to and get your money back.

I "borrowed" the one Rusty would rent out when I did the TD front suspension 
years ago, I wonder what happened to that thing, if the Trentster ended up with 
it.  It was a Klann I think, seemed to be about the same as this thing as far 
as I can remember.

Hey look, I got a better deal than Kleb

--R




On 12/1/13 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> If you can get it for $100 that's a great deal. I paid mid 100s for mine 
> which is just like the one here except it came in a red case. Works great and 
> have used it many times
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> 
>> Is this a good one?
>> 
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coil-spring-compressor-/221327170278?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3388209ae6&vxp=mtr
>> 
>> I ask because I have a chance to score one for $100.  Don't have an 
>> immediate need for one, but for $100 I might be able to justify adding it to 
>> my tool cabinet.
>> 
>> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] [PhilosophicalM] FW: Gates vs Ford Motors

[Alex Chamberlain]

I've seen that one before, but it's especially apt now that Ford is pushing
for open standards based on Android for in-car computers, which is
antithetical to everything Gates stands for.

Alex
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[MBZ] Fwd: 85 300 TD Boston area

[degcoast]

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Dwight Giles  
Date:11/23/2013  2:02 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: "Dwight Giles, Jr."  
Subject: Fwd: 85 300 TD Boston area 






Buddy of mine has one for sale for 1150. Rusty bottom. I have not seen car but 
can send pix. He might part it out. Contact me off list.
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Re: [MBZ] I can't think of a crappier way to start the day….

[Dan Penoff]

How's about now?


On Nov 23, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> No pictures came thru
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> 
>> As soon as the ListMom approves the pictures
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is there more to this?
>>> 
>>> Mike
 On Nov 23, 2013 12:13 PM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
 
 
 
 ..than walking in to work and turning around to see your 300SEL in flames.
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[MBZ] Today's Harbor Freight Deal

[Dan Penoff]

Got an email flyer from them overnight and noticed they have an IR thermometer 
on sale for $20.

These aren't super duper Fluke grade accurate, but they're great for basic 
troubleshooting, especially for cooling and exhaust systems.  I bought one a 
while back when they were around $30 on sale, and I have been pleased with it.  
Never seen them this cheap before.

http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-infrared-thermometer-with-laser-targeting-69465-8905.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4813_black_friday&utm_source=1040

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] [PhilosophicalM] FW: Gates vs Ford Motors

[Gerry Archer]

Windows vs. Ford Motor Co.

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way 
computers have enhanced our lives, read on.


At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the 
computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If Ford had kept up 
with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 
cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon." In response to Bill's comments, 
Ford issued a press release stating: If Ford had developed technology like 
Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:


1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash.twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a 
new car.


3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for noreason. You would 
have to pull to the side of the road,close all of the windows, shut off the 
car, restart it, andreopen the windows before you could continue. For some 
reason you would simply accept this.


4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turnwould cause your 
car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to 
reinstall the engine.


5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, 
five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five 
percent of the roads.


6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator, warning lights would all be 
replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning 
light.


7. The airbag system would ask, "Are you sure? “before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and 
refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned 
the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.


9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to 
drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same 
manner as the old car.


10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

When all else fails, you could call "customer service" in some foreign 
country and be instructed in some foreign language how to fix your car 
yourself!



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Re: [MBZ] Rotella Moto oil 15 W 50 WTF?

[Tom Norris]

(gmail is being ornery today and not letting me append an *OT* to the
subject line... grrr)


On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

> Someone needs to come up with the earliest instance in which Rodney
> Dangerfield uttered these famous words.
>
>
>
You wanna talk about No Respect, you should get a Smart ForTwo.  But don't
settle for the wimpy US-market-only version.  I took the gray-market route
and found a nice diesel cabriolet a few years back.  Especially on the
Interstate highways, folks will pass simply because the car is so small. I
just downshift, pedal to the floor and pass them back.  You should see the
looks I get from the driver being passed - though every now and again I
will get some awfully nasty looks from guys in large pickups with gunracks
and covered with NRA stickers.(the kind guy that would get mighty riled by
insulting the guys momma or his huntin' dawgs) But, hey, I support the NRA
too -- I'm just driving a roller skate. An 800cc turbo - intercooled,
3-cylinder Daimler AG rollerskate, but a roller skate nonetheless.

As I'm writing this, I realise I have not posted an intro before now, so
here goes -- name is Tom and located in Mufreesboro, Tennessee.  I've been
a Benz diesel fan for many years and at my previous location of Manchester
I had (literally) a back yard full of assorted W123's in various states of
repair.
I kept watch on the assorted local area (Nashville, basically) for cheap or
free Benzen to repair or part out.  I then sold the cars and parts on eBay.
 This was about ten years ago when it was much easier. Counting both
repaired and parts cars, I think the total sold was around 8, including a
1962 404S Unimog that I miss dearly, as it drew more stares than the
Smart...  My last *REAL*
Mercedes Benz I gave to my brother and his wife a couple years ago when
both their vehicles died at once, also included a parts car.

The parts car is for sale, please email me off list and I give you more
info.
It is a nineteen-eighty-one 300TD that will need a dowtothemetal sand,
prime and paint, but engine and drive train are good, and the body has no
rust-through. The rest should be discussed off list, due to the sheer
sadness of the tale.

I think that is enough yammering for one day.

I wish all the US folk a Happy Thanksgiving, and with all the recent
weather, I especially wish you a safe one.

Tom in Murfreesboro
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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Rich Thomas]

Divide by 5

--R


On 12/2/13 2:09 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:

Rich Thomas wrote:
They should show just a few ohms of resistance, like 3 or 4 if I 
recall.  Zero not good, infinite not good.


Don't they draw 20-30 amps when cold?
That would imply about half an ohm.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Mitch Haley]

Rich Thomas wrote:
They should show just a few ohms of resistance, like 3 or 4 if I 
recall.  Zero not good, infinite not good.


Don't they draw 20-30 amps when cold?
That would imply about half an ohm.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Rich Thomas]

They should show just a few ohms of resistance, like 3 or 4 if I 
recall.  Zero not good, infinite not good.


--R


On 12/2/13 12:15 PM, Larry T wrote:

Hi Gang,
I tried to test the GP using my 12v battery with the GP removed 
since i had already pulled it - it didn't even get warm -- i then 
tested it as many ways that i could think of using my DMM - zero 
continuity, (I tested between the threads and the probe as well as the 
threaded connector)  i aso tested for Resistance and got max numbers 
in a place where I wanted as close to zero as possible - so naturally 
the numbers were greater than 50.0 so I'm pretty sure that's a dead 
GP. There's a opening somewhere between the threaded connector and the 
probe.


I am assuming the GP is like a light bulb  --  IOW  --  it should 
have a "short" that makes the probe get hot?


Still have 3 more to test

Anyone ready to step up to Amsoil? ;-) I'm here to help -

Larry

Please Visit My AMSOIL Online Store:
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/default.aspx?zo=5114156
Oil Analysis Site - www.youroil.net

On 11/23/2013 7:00 PM, Fmiser wrote:

Larry wrote:

I was wondering - I'd like to test the GPs on my 240D - would it
be acceptable to hook them 1 at a time to my battery charger? I
read the archives about testing GPs and the point was made that a
GP might test good with a meter when cold -  but can fail when it
heats up - if I use my Battery charger won't I cover that
hot/cold problem?

Yes - but all you will be able to tell is if it glows.  I think
it's a lot easier to test it still in the engine.

I attached 12 AWG wire leads to an old automotive dash style
ammeter that reads -30 0 +30 Amps.

To use it, I pop the top off of the glow relay and unplug the
connector for the glow plugs. There is a contact for each glow plug
in this connector.  I clip one meter lead to the fused side of the
big, screw-in fuse and then touch each glowplug contact, one at a
time. The socket has pin numbers molded into it, and these numbers
correspond to the cylinder number.

This method tests the supply 12V, the wire, and the plug. When
cold, a good plug draws about 20A (Well, on my meter it point
to the mark for 20 amps. I have not calibrated or tested the
accuracy of that meter...) It will drop back to about 15A
after 8-10 seconds.

Once the one wire is connected to the fuse, DO NOT LET THE
OTHER WIRE TOUCH CHASSIS GROUND!!!  Or the big fuse will blow
and possibly so will your ammeter. :)

If the plug is bad, the current will usually be less.  If it is
shorted it will be much more.

If the wire or connectors are in poor shape, the current will
be less.

If the supply voltage is low, the current will be less.


--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Mitch Haley]

If they represent an open circuit, they work as well as a blown light bulb.

Mitch.

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[MBZ] Cold war story for Wilton

[Mitch Haley]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515598/Launch-code-US-nuclear-weapons-easy-.html

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Re: [MBZ] The only one working today and not off shopping somewhere [wasRe: e6umehyt OT: Highest (and most dangerous) outhouse in theworld]

[Larry T]

in the deep south, Muscadine grapes grow wild in many places - when ripe 
you could smell them from far off.


I can see how wine would taste pretty bad but we have made jelly with 
them that came out close to Concord Grape Jelly  but not as quite as 
sweet of course. Still pretty good though.  But I prefer Concord.
Concord grapes are very hard to find inless you grow them yourself.
Our last 2 crops have not done well sadly.   it's a real PITA to nurture 
a crop for ~6 months or so only to have the birds and deer get most of 
the few produced...


LarryT

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Oil Analysis Site - www.youroil.net



 On 12/1/2013 12:54 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

There is a fairly large (10-20 acres) muscadine vineyard about 45 minutes south 
of me.  Went there for a tour, tasting and lunch one day.

I'm no wine connoisseur, but it tasted awful.  Nasty stuff.

About the only wine I care for is a good Merlot with a nice filet or steak.

Dan


On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Rich Thomas wrote:


There are some from Texas that are quite good but somehow the laws there 
prevent the stuff from being shipped out of state.  When we lived there I would 
get Texas wines often, tasty stuff.

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Testing Glow Plugs

[Larry T]

Hi Gang,
I tried to test the GP using my 12v battery with the GP removed 
since i had already pulled it - it didn't even get warm -- i then tested 
it as many ways that i could think of using my DMM - zero continuity, (I 
tested between the threads and the probe as well as the threaded 
connector)  i aso tested for Resistance and got max numbers in a place 
where I wanted as close to zero as possible - so naturally the numbers 
were greater than 50.0 so I'm pretty sure that's a dead GP. There's a 
opening somewhere between the threaded connector and the probe.


I am assuming the GP is like a light bulb  --  IOW  --  it should 
have a "short" that makes the probe get hot?


Still have 3 more to test

Anyone ready to step up to Amsoil? ;-) I'm here to help -

Larry

Please Visit My AMSOIL Online Store:
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/default.aspx?zo=5114156
Oil Analysis Site - www.youroil.net

On 11/23/2013 7:00 PM, Fmiser wrote:

Larry wrote:

I was wondering - I'd like to test the GPs on my 240D - would it
be acceptable to hook them 1 at a time to my battery charger?  I
read the archives about testing GPs and the point was made that a
GP might test good with a meter when cold -  but can fail when it
heats up - if I use my Battery charger won't I cover that
hot/cold problem?

Yes - but all you will be able to tell is if it glows.  I think
it's a lot easier to test it still in the engine.

I attached 12 AWG wire leads to an old automotive dash style
ammeter that reads -30 0 +30 Amps.

To use it, I pop the top off of the glow relay and unplug the
connector for the glow plugs. There is a contact for each glow plug
in this connector.  I clip one meter lead to the fused side of the
big, screw-in fuse and then touch each glowplug contact, one at a
time. The socket has pin numbers molded into it, and these numbers
correspond to the cylinder number.

This method tests the supply 12V, the wire, and the plug. When
cold, a good plug draws about 20A (Well, on my meter it point
to the mark for 20 amps. I have not calibrated or tested the
accuracy of that meter...) It will drop back to about 15A
after 8-10 seconds.

Once the one wire is connected to the fuse, DO NOT LET THE
OTHER WIRE TOUCH CHASSIS GROUND!!!  Or the big fuse will blow
and possibly so will your ammeter. :)

If the plug is bad, the current will usually be less.  If it is
shorted it will be much more.

If the wire or connectors are in poor shape, the current will
be less.

If the supply voltage is low, the current will be less.


--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Thanksgiving

[Randy Bennell]

On 29/11/2013 9:10 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Randy wrote:

So I, as a good little consumer, I am doing my bit to keep the economy
rolling along.

For sure.
Just on a different schedule than the mind twisters want.
Slow, easy, when needed.
Sales are nice, but... let's not be crazy.
mao



I do agree with you on that.
Although, I do buy things that I may not need when I see them on a good 
price.

I tend to be a bit of a tool addict (sp? one d or two?).
I have tools I will probably never use but I like tools and I think that 
if I don't use them, maybe my sons will.
One of them is a mechanic and has better tools than I, but those are at 
the shop where he works so he can ultimately use another set at home.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Grapes [was Re: The only one working today and not off shopping somewhere [wasRe: e6umehyt OT: Highest (and most dangerous) outhouse in theworld]]

[Randy Bennell]

On 29/11/2013 8:30 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
And where are you?  There are limits to the range of grapes, alas -- 
too cold, too wet, too dry, too hot.


I have terrible problems with getting them properly ripened, will have 
to modify and extend my fungicide program this year to combat what I 
suspect is phomopsis cane and leaf spot.  This causes the rachis the 
grape berries grow on to die just about the time they start to get 
fully ripe, resulting in all the grapes falling off instead of hanging 
there getting ready to pick.


The birds are a real problem, too.

Peter

___

Probably depends on the type of grape vine too.
I am in Winnipeg, Manitoba and we get about as cold as one can stand, 
and yet we have grape vines that grow here.

I  don't have any personally but neighbors do.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The only one working today and not off shopping somewhere [wasRe: e6umehyt OT: Highest (and most dangerous) outhouse in theworld]

[Randy Bennell]

On 29/11/2013 6:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
Ha ha, I dug up mature grape vines and replanted them because my new 
neighbor doesn't want them and I do.


Good exercise, I just hope they survive well enough to make it worth 
the efforts.


I'll be pulling and re-setting posts tomorrow and hope to finish the 
job on Sunday, total of 38 vines dug and replanted along with six or 
eight posts and a number of T-posts.


The things we do for wine, eh?

Peter


Grape Jelly too!

Randy

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