Re: [MBZ] Ever have a driveshaft snap in half?
Could be a bad rotor; I had some that looked fine but was a layer of good metal over a sheet of rust... -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 17, 2013, at 10:32, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Ralph Robertson wrote: still shakes the steering wheel at speeds above 55mph, very smooth below this speed. Could be a loose wheel bearing, steering component, or front suspension component. But first, swap the front and rear wheels and see what happens. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo uje0ajah
Van Damme and Van Damme in Van Damme Yankees! -MST3K -MMM- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in the College of Science, for example. My degree is in Varying Exceptionalities (Special Education). Along with classes in each subject area in the respective colleges I took very specialized classes that covered a lot of different disabilities, many of which were taught by faculty from places like our de la Parte Institute of Mental Health and our College of Medicine. I also had an additional two semesters of practicals at local schools that were centers for students with disabilities, all directed and conducted by master teachers in those areas. This was over and above the State mandated required practicals for a regular classroom teacher. My cohort was 16 people, all of which were managed by a group of four professors assigned to us specifically for teaching, managing and directing the program for two years. We lived, ate and breathed together for the most part. It was very rigorous, with a high attrition rate. Of the 16 that started only 9 finished. I believe much of what was said is true in that there are some colleges of education out there that are doing a poor job. However, I also believe there are others that are very rigorous and do an excellent job of preparing future teachers for the work they have to do. Much of the problem, I believe, is due to educational policy being a moving target. The latest and greatest is a constantly changing thing, requiring educators to constantly shift their efforts in different directions. We need consistency and focus on core subjects, and the heck with the latest foo-foo stuff. Dan B.A., B.S., A.A. On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I was definitely un-impressed with the quality of the work being done in the College of Education when I was a graduate student and on the Program Review committee. Not only that, but the College of Education REQUIRED their students to take all the content courses for their teaching areas in the College of Education, no courses could count if taken in another college. Pure hocum and bunkum, the content free concept was raging at the time. We need to require people to get a regular college degree in an academic area and then take the teaching courses needed to be an effective educator -- that would be a Master's degree and probably be actually useful. Inadequately educated people cannot teach an academic subject, it's not a matter of reading a book to children. Peter Hear, Hear!!! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
Re: [MBZ] You are responsible for your health care (emamuqur for kaleb's stupid spam bot)
Hi Mitch, I must admit I probably put pressure on the doctor to get my knee replaced as quickly as possibly. The failed knee looked like I was bow legged on one side and I worried it might break completely, which I knew would be a very painful event. So I was anxious to get a replacement installed ASAP.Also, after the bad one was removed and the replacement installed I asked if he saw anything to indicate why the 1st had failed and he said it had fractured. I believe the epoxy broke down and the support it had provided was gone which allowed unexpected forces to be placed on the joint which caused it to fracture. But that's just my interpretation. And you are absolutely correct about the answer being plausible.Good analogy about the DOA alternator BTW ;-) I was also surprised (and relieved) when the allergy test came back positive but it explained so much - my knee was swollen the whole time and IMO it was because my body was fighting the allergic reaction to the epoxy. Of course, if it had been the prosthesis at fault we may have seen the same thing. As always hindsight is always 20:20. Sincerely, Larry On 12/16/2013 12:21 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Larry T wrote: You are absolutely right. When I asked why the 1st failed the doc said he believed the device was defective. OK, I could have fallen for that too. He gave an explanation, and it seemed plausible. And until you told us of the allergy test, I'd never heard of such a thing. I MIGHT be inclined to research the issue on the internet, primarily because your experience has greatly magnified my own inclination to double check doctors. We accept that with cars all the time. Why doesn't last week's rebuilt alternator charge my battery? Because it was defective. I'll put in a warranty replacement and hope it's not defective. It's not until the 2nd alternator fails that you realize the problem is either in the choice of rebuilders or not in the alternator at all. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
I got a 3. Sincerely, Larry On 12/16/2013 7:05 PM, Mountain Man wrote: What scores do okiebenz readers get? http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/ mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo edymevyg
Hendrik and Fay wrote: http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/uk-market/en-gb/trucks/volvo-fm/key-features/Pages/volvo-dynamic-steering.aspx Another step towards full automation, trucks change gears themselves now, a manual box that is shifted as opposed to a traditional auto box. I think Merc and other are incorporating distronic stuff into trucks etc Won't be long and the driver will be able to let go of the steering wheel and read a book. But if the driver's reading a book, who's going to hold the carrot? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N87uxyDQT0 Mitch. PS the gibberish in the subject line is the daily secret code to tell Kaleb's list software not to reject everything I post. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
You know, last week my daughter (finally) graduated college, we went to the ceremonies. They had all the PhD candidates and their thesis titles listed in the program. A lot of them seemed like BS to me, but what do I know... One of them stood out as a major contribution to societal improvement, it was something like Gender(queering) and the impacts on society of mainstreaming gender(queering) Now I don't even know what gender(queering) is, and don't really have much need to know I suppose, and have no idea when that topic was discovered or whatever. I mentioned this to my daughter, who is up on such things as she had a housemate for awhile who was gender queer neutral (and I just thought she was a fairly cute young lady), and she explained that this whole topic was now a significant area of study. Who knew? I still don't know what gender queer neutral is either, though I know the meaning of each word in that appellation, but that girl was an example of it I guess. I'm wondering how writing a thesis on gender(queering) will contribute to the progress of the economy, but I guess that would the topic for another PhD study. --R On 12/20/13 6:40 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in the College of Science, for example. My degree is in Varying Exceptionalities (Special Education). Along with classes in each subject area in the respective colleges I took very specialized classes that covered a lot of different disabilities, many of which were taught by faculty from places like our de la Parte Institute of Mental Health and our College of Medicine. I also had an additional two semesters of practicals at local schools that were centers for students with disabilities, all directed and conducted by master teachers in those areas. This was over and above the State mandated required practicals for a regular classroom teacher. My cohort was 16 people, all of which were managed by a group of four professors assigned to us specifically for teaching, managing and directing the program for two years. We lived, ate and breathed together for the most part. It was very rigorous, with a high attrition rate. Of the 16 that started only 9 finished. I believe much of what was said is true in that there are some colleges of education out there that are doing a poor job. However, I also believe there are others that are very rigorous and do an excellent job of preparing future teachers for the work they have to do. Much of the problem, I believe, is due to educational policy being a moving target. The latest and greatest is a constantly changing thing, requiring educators to constantly shift
Re: [MBZ] millenials
clearly you are a all a bunch of old dinosaur farts and i am king of youth culture here On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: I got a 3. Sincerely, Larry On 12/16/2013 7:05 PM, Mountain Man wrote: What scores do okiebenz readers get? http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/ mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
i like a lot of young people and often think of substitute teaching and then there are a lot of young people i don't like who upset me, so i am hesitant right now i limit myself to judging debate and oratory on a part time basis. it's easier there as you can just dismiss the kids who don't want to play so they can go off and smoke crack or whatever they do and then just deal with the ones who want to do well/improve universal compulsory education is one of the great criminal sins of the modern world, yet no one is willing to speak out against it but me. On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: They call it alternative certification here. It was originally intended to be a vehicle for getting retirees and mid-career changers into the system when we were desperate for teachers during the housing boom. They brought a lot of retired military in, too. You don't get to start teaching out of the gate. You're essentially an intern after you complete some courses within the District, mostly things dealing with pedagogical skills, something few people outside of education have or have been exposed to. Once that's out of the way you get to start working in the classroom. Sadly, the attrition rate was frighteningly high when the program was going full bore, about 95% after five years. Seems that teaching wasn't as easy as a lot of people thought Substitute teaching is another way to go that avoids having to certify, but it can be tough getting a long term gig and the pay isn't that great. It's a good way to slipstream into the discipline, however. Dan Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: Interesting. I poked around the NC Department of Education site and didn't see anything that looked useful for a lateral entrant, or at least anything that would allow someone to start teaching before they completed a teaching certificate. Good to know that is not the norm. Thanks, Tim On Dec 19, 2013 3:04 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: He would be waivered here as he would in most states, with a promise to get teaching credentials in a given period of time. Pretty typical for most states. Down here we have a program for people to make the transition from private sector to education. Dan On Dec 19, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: On Dec 19, 2013 8:59 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I have been thinking the same thing for a while, as there is a huge demand for STEM teachers. The problem in his situation (I suspect) is that there is an exceedingly high number of such folks in his neighborhood, which is sort of unique in his case. In NC, Craig would not be qualified to teach in the public schools, since he only has a science-based Ph.D. and many years of relevant work experience. This is a right-to-work state, we just care about our teachers too much to let people know what they are doing before they try to instruct our children. That said, there are lots of private and charter schools in Durham and Wake county, and lots of concentrated wealth so some of them pay very well. [And, knowing Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools, they probably have a waiver for licensure, since it is by far the best - and best paying - public school system in the state.] There are also a number of universities and colleges within 30 miles to pick up an Adjunct position, though to be honest I think the private high schools pay better and have more motivated students. A college friend of my is the principal at one of the Catholic schools, he's not a high-roller but he has enough and really enjoys his work. The local post-secondary schools certainly don't espouse any religious theme*, but there is a thriving Christian community in each of them - I was blessed with a number of professors who helped solidify my faith while I was at NC State, and now I know a fair few folks from Duke and Chapel Hill through church/organizational interactions as well. Oddly my wife went to NCCU and I know only two current professors there, though as an HBCU in Durham I'm pretty sure it has a strong AME influence. *Duke is the exception, practically it is a secular university that happens to have a historical divinity school located on the same campus. That said I know a lot of the present and former Divinity School people, and they are incredible, in word and deed - I wasn't expecting that when I moved to Durham, given the Duke reputation. :) I'm not trying to make this a religion thread, but I know it's important to Craig that he's working somewhere Good. Just trying to get him to move here so he can help me with the SDLs, don'cha know. Best, -Tim should point out that, while Durham and Orange counties are bastions of liberalism, Wake is on average as conservative as they
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
You probably need to consider the thesis in context to the source of the studies (college of social sciences, education, etc.) as this has a lot to do with doctoral dissertations/theses, I suspect. If you looked at doctoral candidates from a college of science or engineering I can assure you the subject would be just as obscure and unrecognizable. Was she getting a graduate degree? I ask because where I went to school the doctoral candidates had their own ceremonies where they got hooded by their supervising professor. Dan No tam, thank you On Dec 20, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: You know, last week my daughter (finally) graduated college, we went to the ceremonies. They had all the PhD candidates and their thesis titles listed in the program. A lot of them seemed like BS to me, but what do I know... One of them stood out as a major contribution to societal improvement, it was something like Gender(queering) and the impacts on society of mainstreaming gender(queering) Now I don't even know what gender(queering) is, and don't really have much need to know I suppose, and have no idea when that topic was discovered or whatever. I mentioned this to my daughter, who is up on such things as she had a housemate for awhile who was gender queer neutral (and I just thought she was a fairly cute young lady), and she explained that this whole topic was now a significant area of study. Who knew? I still don't know what gender queer neutral is either, though I know the meaning of each word in that appellation, but that girl was an example of it I guess. I'm wondering how writing a thesis on gender(queering) will contribute to the progress of the economy, but I guess that would the topic for another PhD study. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Stevia
Probably Truvia now that you mention it. My wife's aunt makes cookies using almond butter instead of flour and they get a weird texture. Angie makes them with honey and the weird unpleasant texture is gone. Her aunt said she used stevia but she didn't say which form. Never the less I despise chemical sweeteners and will stick with our three which I consider much more honest and low tech. -Curt Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:55:37 -0500 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Stevia uje0ajah Message-ID: 52b3b1a9.4040...@voyager.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Curt Raymond wrote: I find that stevia imparts a texture, especially in baked goods. Its kind of waxy and I dislike it intensely. Truvia or pure stevia? Stevia is supposed to be so concentrated I can't imagine it having any physical quality in baked goods. Instead of a couple of tablespoons of sugar, you'd use 1/32th of a teaspoon of stevia powder, right? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo uje0ajah
No, Chuck Norris isn't computer generated or animated. Its a composited image where elements have been computer generated but some are real. After Effects is a compositor although there are plenty of apps that also do that. I mentioned AE specifically since somebody mentioned Photoshop, both Pshop and AE are made by Adobe. -Curt Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:46:30 +1030 From: Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo uje0ajah Message-ID: 52b3b68e.5070...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I think the words we are looking for is computer generated animation. Hendrik who is not computer generated On 20/12/13 13:37, Curt Raymond wrote: After Effects, Photoshop is for still images. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
I have a cousin who got nabbed for rape 2 or 3 times. His grandparents insist he's a good kid. His sister has 4 or 5 kids which are all wards of the state (she'd leave them home while she went out on a date for instance) but her grandparents insist she's a good mother. Needless to say we're not close with that branch of the family... -Curt Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:41:28 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws Message-ID: 20131219204128.e87b34ce642c40d8bcb19...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 17:07:04 -0500 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Relatives of the 19 year old told media that /he is a good kid/. I guess if he hasn't pointed a gun in your face, he's a good kid. But now that he has pointed a gun in someone's face and there is visible proof of that fact, his relatives need to realize he's not a good kid anymore. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo
I went back and watched it and Philip's right. If they're running the footage backwards its dammed impressive how the drivers are driving forward while watching the mirror... -Curt Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:56:05 -0600 From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo uje0ajah Message-ID: 20131219205605.3c8cb...@jasper.condray.lan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mitch wrote: Remember the reversing Volvo truck split? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10 Craig wrote: And how are they able to keep the trucks going straight backwards, particularly the truck on the right, the semi with a trailer? Dieselhead wrote: Nuttin easier. Run it backwards. Photoshop Maybe. But I'm pretty certain those trucks were being driven in reverse. Note where the drivers are looking. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo
It's the dynamic steering which won't allow certain wheel inputs after a certain speed. Same system on modern prevost busses... Awesome Sent from my iPhone On Dec 20, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I went back and watched it and Philip's right. If they're running the footage backwards its dammed impressive how the drivers are driving forward while watching the mirror... -Curt Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:56:05 -0600 From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Van Damme and Volvo uje0ajah Message-ID: 20131219205605.3c8cb...@jasper.condray.lan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mitch wrote: Remember the reversing Volvo truck split? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10 Craig wrote: And how are they able to keep the trucks going straight backwards, particularly the truck on the right, the semi with a trailer? Dieselhead wrote: Nuttin easier. Run it backwards. Photoshop Maybe. But I'm pretty certain those trucks were being driven in reverse. Note where the drivers are looking. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
Have you been paying attention to the studies into why Finland has such great student outcomes? Seems to be a result of making entrance to teachers college very selective, and paying them like professionals instead serfs. Somehow, they've instilled a desire for education in the populace. Finland was having a collapsing economy and decided that poor education was a major contributing factor, and something that they could do something about. The results have been positive. On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in the College of Science, for example. My degree is in Varying Exceptionalities (Special Education). Along with classes in each subject area in the respective colleges I took very specialized classes that covered a lot of different disabilities, many of which were taught by faculty from places like our de la Parte Institute of Mental Health and our College of Medicine. I also had an additional two semesters of practicals at local schools that were centers for students with disabilities, all directed and conducted by master teachers in those areas. This was over and above the State mandated required practicals for a regular classroom teacher. My cohort was 16 people, all of which were managed by a group of four professors assigned to us specifically for teaching, managing and directing the program for two years. We lived, ate and breathed together for the most part. It was very rigorous, with a high attrition rate. Of the 16 that started only 9 finished. I believe much of what was said is true in that there are some colleges of education out there that are doing a poor job. However, I also believe there are others that are very rigorous and do an excellent job of preparing future teachers for the work they have to do. Much of the problem, I believe, is due to educational policy being a moving target. The latest and greatest is a constantly changing thing, requiring educators to constantly shift their efforts in different directions. We need consistency and focus on core subjects, and the heck with the latest foo-foo stuff. Dan B.A., B.S., A.A. -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
Absolutely. Finland isn't the only country that does this. In fact, this is the norm for a lot of developed countries. Sadly, our culture has reduced the teacher into a nanny in a lot of respects, and top-down management and the willingness to adopt new methods and techniques is all too prevalent, rather than sticking with tried and true methodologies. People no longer respect teachers or consider them professionals in many cases. Add to this the cultural issue of parents not being actively involved in the education and raising of their children and the situation just gets worse. I taught in a high school that had a socioeconomic base that was pretty broad, from itinerant (migrant) to very affluent kids. The worst ones were the rich kids. They had no respect for the faculty and their parents treated us like hired help. The best kids were from the lower end of the economic scale, as their parents placed a high value on education, and treated and respected us as professionals. That's one of the reasons I really enjoyed working in a Title 1 school later on. The parents were very supportive and respectful, and if you had a problem with one of their kids, a phone call home would resolve the situation immediately. Dan On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:01 PM, OK Don wrote: Have you been paying attention to the studies into why Finland has such great student outcomes? Seems to be a result of making entrance to teachers college very selective, and paying them like professionals instead serfs. Somehow, they've instilled a desire for education in the populace. Finland was having a collapsing economy and decided that poor education was a major contributing factor, and something that they could do something about. The results have been positive. On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in the College of Science, for example. My degree is in Varying Exceptionalities (Special Education). Along with classes in each subject area in the respective colleges I took very specialized classes that covered a lot of different disabilities, many of which were taught by faculty from places like our de la Parte Institute of Mental Health and our College of Medicine. I also had an additional two semesters of practicals at local schools that were centers for students with disabilities, all directed and conducted by master teachers in those areas. This was over and above the State mandated required practicals for a regular classroom teacher. My cohort was 16 people, all of which were managed by a group of four professors assigned to us specifically
[MBZ] OT - 'Nother Sondy Tale - Energy conservation
Yep, 'nother Sondy Tale: ENERGY CONSERVATION By Wilton Strickland As part of an energy conservation measure in 1977, the Carter administration mandated lowered thermostat settings for government buildings -- 64°F for warehouses, for example. When I arrived at Sondrestrom Air Base, Greenland, though, in early February of '78, there seemed to be a complete lack of any concern for energy conservation. A good indication of this was at the large, main supply warehouse, where doors, including large roll-up vehicle doors were habitually left wide open, and thermostats were set to the mid-seventies while ambient temperatures were hovering near 0°F. Meanwhile, I learned that B. Gen. Paulk, visiting a few months earlier from our headquarters in Colorado Springs, had also found those same conditions at that warehouse and was quite upset about it. I reminded the American supply contract manager of the President's mandated thermostat settings and that I was sure that Gen. Paulk would be interested to see during his next visit if anybody had heeded his concerns about energy conservation. I also told him, I suspect the first place he'll want to visit when he arrives is this warehouse. I started making random, no-notice visits to the warehouse, checking doors and thermostat settings, in an effort to train the occupants to be more concerned about energy conservation. When Gen. Paulk arrived a couple of months later, I met him at the airplane to take him on a tour of the base. As he was getting into my truck, I asked him, What would like to see first? Not surprisingly, he replied, The supply warehouse. (On the way to the airplane, I had stopped by the warehouse to confirm that the thermostat settings were appropriate and doors were closed.) At the warehouse, Gen. Paulk entered and walked directly to the main thermostat, saw that it was set at 64 and turned to me with a grin and said, You've been talking to 'em, haven't you, Wilt? My reply, also with a relaxed smile, Yes, Sir. This comfortable and relaxed tone between us continued for the rest of his visit and the remaining several months of our association. I also noticed soon after arriving at Sondy, that all street lights, and all airfield runway, taxiway and parking ramp lights were left on 24 hours per day regardless of weather or daylight conditions. When I asked the Danish contractor chief engineer about it, he explained that the ambient temperature in winter is generally so low that, when the lights are turned back on after being off for a while, the thermal shock of going from very cold to intensely hot in such a short time burns out too many lamps. Overall, then, it's more economical to just leave them on through the day/night cycle in very cold conditions. In late spring and even after we began to have very mild temperatures and sunlight 24-hours-a-day, though, all of the lights were still left on 24 hours a day. When I asked the Danish chief engineer about it this time, he responded, Well, the (generator) engines are running, what difference does it make? I responded, Yes, of course, but they're running only as needed - every time anybody turns on anything even as insignificant as merely another little light bulb, the fuel controllers on those engines sense the call for more power and spray a bit more fuel into the engines to make that power. We can't get something for nothing - the additional power to operate that bulb is not just sitting there already made and ready to use at no cost to us. All of the offending lights were turned off immediately until darkness and/or weather conditions required them. Another large potential waste of energy was a HUGE surplus of aviation gasoline (avgas) that would likely go bad long before it could be used in the normal manner in aircraft. Sometime during the summer, when the Danish contractor fuels manager told me about it, I asked about the possibility of mixing a bit of it with fuel for our gasoline-powered ground vehicles. I also told him that in the late fifties, when I was a B-47 maintenance crew chief, I would occasionally see a thin, white deposit on the insides of the jet engine tailpipes - evidence that they had taken on some avgas during air refueling from gasoline-driven KC-97's and wondered if it were feasible to add a small percentage of the excess gasoline to jet fuel that we dispensed to transiting aircraft. Aviation fuel mixtures and additives, of course, are stringently regulated to ensure high quality and safety during its handling, storage and use. The increased volatility of gasoline and its much lower flash point could cause a jet aircraft fuel tank to become dangerously explosive much more easily than with just jet fuel. I don't think that we ever dispensed any jet fuel laced with the gasoline, but we started using some of it in our vehicle and ground equipment fleet almost immediately. Even that, though,
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
On 20/12/2013 1:01 PM, OK Don wrote: Have you been paying attention to the studies into why Finland has such great student outcomes? Seems to be a result of making entrance to teachers college very selective, and paying them like professionals instead serfs. Somehow, they've instilled a desire for education in the populace. Finland was having a collapsing economy and decided that poor education was a major contributing factor, and something that they could do something about. The results have been positive. Not quite the same idea here, but I hope the outcome is similar. It used to be that many (but not all) of the students who went into Education here were the lost souls who either had no idea what they wanted to be or were not academically able to do what they really thought they wanted to do. The result was that the Education faculty was full of losers who did not necessarily become good teachers. Some of them may have but obviously a lot of them were not really enamoured of the idea of being teachers. They just did not have a lot of options and chose that one as the lesser of evils. That has all changed. It is now quite difficult to get into the Education faculty. They are much more selective and one must not only have some decent grades but also demonstrate a fair amount of experience with children - volunteering for work with children at things like Scouts or Guides etc. I am not certain why the process changed. I think it may be nothing more than the fact that they were producing too many teachers and the new teachers could not find jobs. One way to fix that problem was to tighten the standards and admit fewer students to the program. I do hope that it produces a good crop of teachers. My 2 sons did not have what I considered to be good teachers through most of their years in the public schools here. I can only think of about 3 teachers that I would consider to have been very good. Many were just awful. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - 'Nother Sondy Tale - Energy conservation
On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:19:44 -0500 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Yep, 'nother Sondy Tale: ENERGY CONSERVATION By Wilton Strickland ATTABOY, Wilton! (On the way to the airplane, I had stopped by the warehouse to confirm that the thermostat settings were appropriate and doors were closed.) At the warehouse, Gen. Paulk entered and walked directly to the main thermostat, saw that it was set at 64 and turned to me with a grin and said, You've been talking to 'em, haven't you, Wilt? Good going, Wilton! Another example of much energy being wasted was that expended through the exhaust and cooling systems of 10 large Diesel generator engines at the base power plant. To recover some of that energy, I advocated designing and building a circulating hot water system that could collect some of the wasted heat using coils wrapped around the exhaust stacks above each engine and appropriate heat exchangers in the cooling systems and pipe it to heat nearby buildings. Another logical thing to do, and a standard way of doing things. Thank you for your Sondy Tale. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT - drones
*Wouldn't the right to bear arms extend to drones? If I caqn own it, why can't I store it on an octocopter? I'm surprised that OK is mentioned, I didn't think there was a single gun that the legislature doesn't like.* Wish you had some way to keep track of your pesky neighbors? Or see what it is your kids are doing in the basement? Or just keep pace with the NSA? Well, this gift-giving season, consider embracing the very essence of 2013 — which the American Civil Liberties Union has dubbed the year of the dronehttps://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/domestic-drones— by getting a drone of your very own. These unmanned flying devices take surprisingly impressive moving pictures. They can stay in the air anywhere from a couple minutes to a full half-hour. Sure, they're in the early generations for the at-home hobbyist, but the technology is sure to advance. Like it or not, drones are set to explode in our domestic marketplace in the coming months and years. In fact, this past August, acting FAA chairman Michael Hurta estimatedhttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/7/faa-chief-says-drones-will-force-change-at-agency/that there could be close to 30,000 private drones sharing the air with manned-flying machines by 2020. But why wait till 2020? You can get one now. snip Of course, there are some very real and scary issues surrounding domestic drones. There is, for example, the very real possibility that these drones, which range in price from $50 to a few thousand bucks, can be weaponized. Very few states — Georgia, Illinois, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, and North Dakota — have even proposed a prohibition on domestic-drone weaponization. And that's not to mention the much-discussed privacy issues. But clearly, drones aren't just a tool for the military to use over there anymore. Drones are here, folks, and anyone with a credit card can get one. http://theweek.com/article/index/254217/merry-christmas-give-a-drone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - drones
Weaponized drone ??? ¿¿¿ Could happen ?? If you have the dollars and testosterone... try this one on for size... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU Pandoras box anyone? Does government really understand what they are opening up?.. Really?? Inquiring minds want to know Kinda adds a new dimension to Get off my lawn now doesn't it? On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:44 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: *Wouldn't the right to bear arms extend to drones? If I caqn own it, why can't I store it on an octocopter? I'm surprised that OK is mentioned, I didn't think there was a single gun that the legislature doesn't like.* Wish you had some way to keep track of your pesky neighbors? Or see what it is your kids are doing in the basement? Or just keep pace with the NSA? Well, this gift-giving season, consider embracing the very essence of 2013 — which the American Civil Liberties Union has dubbed the year of the dronehttps://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/domestic-drones— by getting a drone of your very own. These unmanned flying devices take surprisingly impressive moving pictures. They can stay in the air anywhere from a couple minutes to a full half-hour. Sure, they're in the early generations for the at-home hobbyist, but the technology is sure to advance. Like it or not, drones are set to explode in our domestic marketplace in the coming months and years. In fact, this past August, acting FAA chairman Michael Hurta estimated http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/7/faa-chief-says-drones-will-force-change-at-agency/ that there could be close to 30,000 private drones sharing the air with manned-flying machines by 2020. But why wait till 2020? You can get one now. snip Of course, there are some very real and scary issues surrounding domestic drones. There is, for example, the very real possibility that these drones, which range in price from $50 to a few thousand bucks, can be weaponized. Very few states — Georgia, Illinois, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, and North Dakota — have even proposed a prohibition on domestic-drone weaponization. And that's not to mention the much-discussed privacy issues. But clearly, drones aren't just a tool for the military to use over there anymore. Drones are here, folks, and anyone with a credit card can get one. http://theweek.com/article/index/254217/merry-christmas-give-a-drone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
From what I see of the youth culture, you are welcome to it. Old fart Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 10:27 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] millenials clearly you are a all a bunch of old dinosaur farts and i am king of youth culture here ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
yes, i am the present and the future . you guys are the past. not meant to be disparaging but just a fact i think it's time to hit the swimming pool now :) On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: From what I see of the youth culture, you are welcome to it. Old fart Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 10:27 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] millenials clearly you are a all a bunch of old dinosaur farts and i am king of youth culture here ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Gainful employment for Craig
Dieselhead wrote: I call it edubabble. We might want to name this the religion-industrial-complex. It is all about dollars, hence industry. Do not mention God in the one, or you are persona non grata. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Stevia
Curt wrote: Never the less I despise chemical sweeteners and will stick with our three which I consider much more honest and low tech. +1 Totally agree!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Stevia
i guess if forced to use sweeterns, i'd go with honey and then maple syrup On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:43 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.comwrote: Curt wrote: Never the less I despise chemical sweeteners and will stick with our three which I consider much more honest and low tech. +1 Totally agree!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
Gary wrote: yes, i am the present and the future... it is interesting to play with your answers after your initial score you can change answers to see which answers get you closer to millenial i could get very millenial by changing a few answers mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
you can approach me if you try, but i am already there. the star child! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.comwrote: Gary wrote: yes, i am the present and the future... it is interesting to play with your answers after your initial score you can change answers to see which answers get you closer to millenial i could get very millenial by changing a few answers mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT Aviation Humor
http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vqlfy Rick Knoble Sent from My Samsung tablet ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
Peter wrote: I was definitely un-impressed with the quality of the work being done in the College of Education when I was a graduate student and on the Program Review committee. 40 years ago when I went to coledg I fully intended to teach in special ed but dropped out of the ed pgm because it was totally undesirable. I don't know what was dis-taseful but it turned me off so I went math/physics which essentially got me nothing. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
Gary wrote: universal compulsory education is one of the great criminal sins of the modern world, yet no one is willing to speak out against it but me. Our family life spoke out against universal compulsory education - home school 7. The issue of compulsory is totally religious. We need to call this what it really is - universal compulsory education makes up half of the religious-industrial-complex. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
Scott wrote: ...criminals can always obtain firearms, regardless of laws. You know the definition of stupid? Keep trying the same action expecting different outcome. Law against guns has failed, not hooch laws. We need to take the issue of guns in our hands - gov't of and by the people. We can generate ideas how to keep stupid guns out of stupid places. i.e. dont go to stupid places. limit our freedoms as a means of speaking that we do not like their freedoms. commerce can respond by not allowing their freedoms. Sure you will object, but we can make these things happen since we know laws won't happen and we know laws do not solve the situation. This is our land, this is our country - we need to do this since the top down systems can not make this happen. It has been done from the bottom up before, i.e. 235 years ago. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
my kid went to some mitt romney meets the kids thing and i wanted her to ask him if he could contrast the number of deaths per year from marijuana vs the number from tylenol and whether he could make any inferences from these relative numbers she wouldn't do it though On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Not all that many die from tylenol but I think its still a surprisingly large number. http://www.propublica.org/article/tylenol-mcneil-fda-behind-the-numbers -Curt Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:05:52 -0500 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws Message-ID: CACioK3umwzW2tV0=p7gvkrg36f4js4okonndghahszr5p1_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 and how many killed by tylenol? or shaolin kung fu? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
it's simply a mad society we live in. it won't last much longer when the chinese take over completely (if there is anything left worth taking over -- we might just be one giant detroit in 20 years), they will set us straight on such matters On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a cousin who got nabbed for rape 2 or 3 times. His grandparents insist he's a good kid. His sister has 4 or 5 kids which are all wards of the state (she'd leave them home while she went out on a date for instance) but her grandparents insist she's a good mother. Needless to say we're not close with that branch of the family... -Curt Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:41:28 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws Message-ID: 20131219204128.e87b34ce642c40d8bcb19...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 17:07:04 -0500 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Relatives of the 19 year old told media that /he is a good kid/. I guess if he hasn't pointed a gun in your face, he's a good kid. But now that he has pointed a gun in someone's face and there is visible proof of that fact, his relatives need to realize he's not a good kid anymore. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
Dan, No offense meant. there may still be some outposts of true teacher prep, but too many follow the moving targets of the latest foofoo. your last sentence, We need consistency and focus on core subjects, and the heck with the latest foo-foo stuff. is pretty much my point. They chase edubabble, and can't put out a brochure that coherently states what they are advertising. I will freely admit that this particular kolledge of ed was inferior. However, it is not that unusual in the current world. It is reflected in the ever worsening capabilities of HS graduates. As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in the College of Science, for example. My degree is in Varying Exceptionalities (Special Education). Along with classes in each subject area in the respective colleges I took very specialized classes that covered a lot of different disabilities, many of which were taught by faculty from places like our de la Parte Institute of Mental Health and our College of Medicine. I also had an additional two semesters of practicals at local schools that were centers for students with disabilities, all directed and conducted by master teachers in those areas. This was over and above the State mandated required practicals for a regular classroom teacher. My cohort was 16 people, all of which were managed by a group of four professors assigned to us specifically for teaching, managing and directing the program for two years. We lived, ate and breathed together for the most part. It was very rigorous, with a high attrition rate. Of the 16 that started only 9 finished. I believe much of what was said is true in that there are some colleges of education out there that are doing a poor job. However, I also believe there are others that are very rigorous and do an excellent job of preparing future teachers for the work they have to do. Much of the problem, I believe, is due to educational policy being a moving target. The latest and greatest is a constantly changing thing, requiring educators to constantly shift their efforts in different directions. We need consistency and focus on core subjects, and the heck with the latest foo-foo stuff. Dan B.A., B.S., A.A. On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I was definitely un-impressed with the quality of the work being done in the College of Education when I was a graduate student and on the Program Review committee. Not only that, but the College of Education REQUIRED their students to take all the content courses for their teaching areas in the College of Education, no courses could count if taken in another college. Pure hocum
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
it runs the gamut at my kid's ghetto school. some of the teachers just stupid and incompetent. many simply no longer care. some are very good. some are amazing. it's just all over the place. no distinction seems to be made between the awful teachers and the great ones in fact, the administration bends over backwards to protect the really bad ones and the great ones are far more likely to get in trouble and get driven out or fired. although i can't be too critical as when you are dealing with gang rape and murder on a regular basis, incompetent and indifferent teachers are the least of your worries at the ghetto school On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Absolutely. Finland isn't the only country that does this. In fact, this is the norm for a lot of developed countries. Sadly, our culture has reduced the teacher into a nanny in a lot of respects, and top-down management and the willingness to adopt new methods and techniques is all too prevalent, rather than sticking with tried and true methodologies. People no longer respect teachers or consider them professionals in many cases. Add to this the cultural issue of parents not being actively involved in the education and raising of their children and the situation just gets worse. I taught in a high school that had a socioeconomic base that was pretty broad, from itinerant (migrant) to very affluent kids. The worst ones were the rich kids. They had no respect for the faculty and their parents treated us like hired help. The best kids were from the lower end of the economic scale, as their parents placed a high value on education, and treated and respected us as professionals. That's one of the reasons I really enjoyed working in a Title 1 school later on. The parents were very supportive and respectful, and if you had a problem with one of their kids, a phone call home would resolve the situation immediately. Dan On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:01 PM, OK Don wrote: Have you been paying attention to the studies into why Finland has such great student outcomes? Seems to be a result of making entrance to teachers college very selective, and paying them like professionals instead serfs. Somehow, they've instilled a desire for education in the populace. Finland was having a collapsing economy and decided that poor education was a major contributing factor, and something that they could do something about. The results have been positive. On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: As someone who graduated magna cum laude from a very highly rated school of education in the nation, I sort of take umbrage at some of the comments Pedagogical skills are critical to the transfer of knowledge. If the teacher doesn't understand how their students learn or knowledge is transferred, they're wasting their time and that of their students. Just because one knows the subject matter doesn't mean they can teach it. This is a common fallacy and often the reason why very knowledgeable people can't teach worth a damn. I have a perfect example right now in a Cisco class I'm taking. The teacher is extremely well versed in the subject matter, but he doesn't know how to transfer the knowledge. I'm betting that fewer than the original 25 students in my class finish as a result. Those who don't or won't take the initiative to try and figure things out on their own are already dropping out. Yes, some schools of education are pretty lousy, but I'm sure the same is true with schools of science, engineering, etc., etc. The masters programs that you reference are endemic in education and probably other disciplines as well. The problem in education is that advancement in salary is often tied to educational level, therefore, you have a huge pool of potential customers who are motivated to take the program for one reason only, and not the true reason for getting the additional education. Nova, Phoenix and others have been quick to capitalize on this segment of the population, and their degrees are considered pretty much worthless within the teaching community. I know someone who got a doctorate in under three years through one of these degree mills. I refuse to address him as doctor and he knows why, and it pisses him off. He's no more a doctor as I am. I don't even think he had to do a dissertation. As far as I know a doctorate (Ph.D.) in a real university takes 4-7 years. The College of Education at USF is very rigorous, and requires subject area candidates to take courses in their respective subject areas in the corresponding school. That is, if you're a secondary teaching student specializing in History, you will have a fairly heavy load that is taken in the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts. I had math courses taught internally as well as ones in
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
not sure, ever, what the hell you are saying, but i do appreciate how you refuse to participate in the man's programs On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.comwrote: Gary wrote: universal compulsory education is one of the great criminal sins of the modern world, yet no one is willing to speak out against it but me. Our family life spoke out against universal compulsory education - home school 7. The issue of compulsory is totally religious. We need to call this what it really is - universal compulsory education makes up half of the religious-industrial-complex. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
Ha! I'm 14 points ahead of you, not that I think being millennial is a good thing though. I hate to think that all those young whippersnappers are like me! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you can approach me if you try, but i am already there. the star child! -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
On Dec 20, 2013 9:14 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: when the chinese take over completely (if there is anything left worth taking over -- we might just be one giant detroit in 20 years), they will set us straight on such matters You make it sound like this is desirable. I will go out fighting. I would rather die than live as a subject in a culture that has for 4,000 years taught that individual rights are literally a meaningless concept, and conformity and subservience to the state are the highest virtues. Unfortunately I fear you may be right; democracy is a flash in the pan, and the natural state of man is totalitarianism. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
you are my hero! On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:03 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! I'm 14 points ahead of you, not that I think being millennial is a good thing though. I hate to think that all those young whippersnappers are like me! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you can approach me if you try, but i am already there. the star child! -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
You are doomed! On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you are my hero! On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:03 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! I'm 14 points ahead of you, not that I think being millennial is a good thing though. I hate to think that all those young whippersnappers are like me! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you can approach me if you try, but i am already there. the star child! -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah!
It is the parents responsibility to insure that their kids get a good education, not the schools. We filled in the gaps when needed, and de-bunked that crap that was fed our kids. They attended the worst schools in town until HS, and then the school was only 'OK' - great by Oklahoma standards, mediocre otherwise. Our kids are not brilliant (they came us after all), but the older three all got scholarships to Ivy league schools, and the last one is finishing his masters in mechanical engineering at MTU. Not bad for attending bad public schools --- don't lay the blame for the education of our kids on the schools. On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Dan, It is reflected in the ever worsening capabilities of HS graduates. -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: FYI - sensible Oz gun laws
it's not desirable but the collapse of america has already happened. someone will come and restore order. someone always does On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.comwrote: On Dec 20, 2013 9:14 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: when the chinese take over completely (if there is anything left worth taking over -- we might just be one giant detroit in 20 years), they will set us straight on such matters You make it sound like this is desirable. I will go out fighting. I would rather die than live as a subject in a culture that has for 4,000 years taught that individual rights are literally a meaningless concept, and conformity and subservience to the state are the highest virtues. Unfortunately I fear you may be right; democracy is a flash in the pan, and the natural state of man is totalitarianism. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] millenials
i am aware of this On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:15 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: You are doomed! On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you are my hero! On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:03 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! I'm 14 points ahead of you, not that I think being millennial is a good thing though. I hate to think that all those young whippersnappers are like me! On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: you can approach me if you try, but i am already there. the star child! -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775 in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. - Benjamin Franklin 1789 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
