Re: [MBZ] New phone

2014-07-16 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Same here.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] New phone



On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:05:50 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


mao wrote:
 ...I just wanna see if my response comes ...via Mercedes...


Nope.
I wanna see the big bold via Mercedes...
How come I caint?


I don't know how come you canit, but it certainly appeared on both of
your postings from what I saw (see quotation line above).


Craig

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[MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

It's the best oil for your Mercedes

http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Says out of stock online

About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW 
spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its 
last change interval.

-Curt



 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

It's the best oil for your Mercedes

http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.

With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Says out of stock online
 
 About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW 
 spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
 everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its 
 last change interval.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 It's the best oil for your Mercedes
 
 http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
 
 --R
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next 
week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should 
probably take a sample and see how things are inside.

The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.

With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.

Dan

Sent from my iPad




 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Says out of stock online
 
 About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW 
 spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
 everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its 
 last change interval.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 It's the best oil for your Mercedes
 
 http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
 
 --R
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3 base 
stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go extended oil 
changes with m1 anymore

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next 
 week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should 
 probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
 
 The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
 gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
 about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
 
 With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Says out of stock online
 
 About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW 
 spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
 everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its 
 last change interval.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 It's the best oil for your Mercedes
 
 http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
 
 --R
 
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I change every 5k.

Yeah, I know, I know.  Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice 
a year for each car if that.

Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil 
takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a 
good interval any way.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next 
 week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should 
 probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
 
 The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.
 
 -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
 gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
 about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
 
 With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
  On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
  
  Says out of stock online
  
  About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the 
  VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
  everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at 
  its last change interval.
  
  -Curt
  
  
  
  From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
  Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
  
  
  It's the best oil for your Mercedes
  
  http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
  
  --R
  
  
  
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
  
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  individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner 
  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
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  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
How about the European formula?  Isn't that still full synthetic?

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C.
Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:41 PM
To: Curt Raymond; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3
base stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go
extended oil changes with m1 anymore

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of
next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I
should probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
 
 The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short
trips.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have
gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online
about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
 
 With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Says out of stock online
 
 About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the
VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most
everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its
last change interval.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 It's the best oil for your Mercedes
 

http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/mo
tor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=
true
 
 --R
 
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
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 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Have you done any analysis? If you could go 10k that'd be once a year.

The cheap insurance argument is BS, underusing your oil means its actually 
more abrasive, theres loads of info out there suggesting that oil wears in 
and is actually more protective after its been used some. Larry gets $60 for 3 
test kits which should be plenty to work you up to 10k changes (ie pull a 
sample at 5k, 7500 and 10k).

I'm debating taking the Jetta up to 15k changes. VW currently recommends 10k in 
the US but 30k (!) in Europe. The reason for the short changes here is because 
they figure nobody reads the manual anyway...

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

I change every 5k.

Yeah, I know, I know.  Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice 
a year for each car if that.

Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil 
takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a 
good interval any way.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next 
 week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should 
 probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
 
 The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.
 
 -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
 gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
 about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
 
 With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
  On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
  
  Says out of stock online
  
  About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the 
  VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
  everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at 
  its last change interval.
  
  -Curt
  
  
  
  From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
  Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
  
  
  It's the best oil for your Mercedes
  
  http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
  
  --R
  
  
  
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
  
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
  
  All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
  individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner 
  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.



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  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I'm gonna call shenanigans. Nobody has ever been able to prove that anything 
has changed with M1. The samples I took last year look just like the ones I 
took in 2006 and say the oil is good to at least 10k in my 190D.

Loads of people are running extended changes with M1, you want to spend a whole 
bunch of time changing oil be my guest but I prefer to drive the thing...

-Curt



 From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3 base 
stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go extended oil 
changes with m1 anymore

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next 
 week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should 
 probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
 
 The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
 gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
 about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
 
 With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
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[MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
Does anyone have a clue where to get steel reproduction floor and body panels 
for coupe and sedan 123's?

Jaime?
Jabba?‎

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Gary Hurst via Mercedes
dickarde would always tout some SKS place or something like that, but i'm
pretty sure those aren't the 3 initials as that is a chinese rifle



On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Does anyone have a clue where to get steel reproduction floor and body
 panels for coupe and sedan 123's?

 Jaime?
 Jabba?‎

 Rick
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

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-- 


*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that.  If the oil 
hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by 
then it's not going to.

For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had 
sumps well beyond 100 gallons.  Almost every one of them was changed on a 
calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis.  I'm not saying 
there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can 
provide a wealth of information about the engine.  In the stationary engine 
business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an 
aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or 
those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation.  Everyone else 
does it every two years or so.

Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and 
expense.  I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue 
on.  And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm 
not that interested in doing so.  I'm just more comfortable with changing the 
oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate.

Dan


On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Have you done any analysis? If you could go 10k that'd be once a year.
 
 The cheap insurance argument is BS, underusing your oil means its actually 
 more abrasive, theres loads of info out there suggesting that oil wears in 
 and is actually more protective after its been used some. Larry gets $60 for 
 3 test kits which should be plenty to work you up to 10k changes (ie pull a 
 sample at 5k, 7500 and 10k).
 
 I'm debating taking the Jetta up to 15k changes. VW currently recommends 10k 
 in the US but 30k (!) in Europe. The reason for the short changes here is 
 because they figure nobody reads the manual anyway...
 
 -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 I change every 5k.
 
 Yeah, I know, I know.  Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about 
 twice a year for each car if that.
 
 Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the 
 oil takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six 
 months is a good interval any way.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
  On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
  How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of 
  next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I 
  should probably take a sample and see how things are inside.
  
  The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips.
  
  -Curt
  
  From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
  
  I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have 
  gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online 
  about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs.
  
  With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out.
  
  Dan
  
  Sent from my iPad
  
  
  
   On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
   mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
   
   Says out of stock online
   
   About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the 
   VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most 
   everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at 
   its last change interval.
   
   -Curt
   
   
   
   From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
   To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
   Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM
   Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
   
   
   It's the best oil for your Mercedes
   
   http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true
   
   --R
   
   
   
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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Wasn't there a place in Cleveland that made all sorts of replacement panels for 
cars?  Did they have MB stuff?

It's these guys:

http://www.tabcobodyparts.com/html/table_of_contents.htm

Looks like they just have repair panels, not complete fenders.

Dan


On Jul 16, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

 dickarde would always tout some SKS place or something like that, but i'm
 pretty sure those aren't the 3 initials as that is a chinese rifle
 
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times?

Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep 
machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs 
by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 
gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early 
would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis...

I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about 
whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't 
really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive like 
4x as much as you do.

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that.  If the oil 
hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by 
then it's not going to.

For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had 
sumps well beyond 100 gallons.  Almost every one of them was changed on a 
calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis.  I'm not saying 
there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can 
provide a wealth of information about the engine.  In the stationary engine 
business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an 
aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or 
those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation.  Everyone else 
does it every two years or so.

Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and 
expense.  I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue 
on.  And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm 
not that interested in doing so.  I'm just more comfortable with changing the 
oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

--R


On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

More on this story:

..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially 
until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however, 
nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply 
perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact 
was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds, 
that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb. 
During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing 
dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as unusual. 
The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the Madrid area, 
no announcements were made...snip


http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff 



http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html 



Gerry



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contributor.





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
Hey, I remain impressed by the fact that the plane flew well enough to 
land it without any further problems and
amazed that with all of the technology available today, that there is 
not something that essentially prevents the pilot from doing that.


Randy

On 16/07/2014 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:

And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

--R


On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

More on this story:

..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially 
until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however, 
nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply 
perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact 
was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds, 
that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb. 
During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing 
dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as 
unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the 
Madrid area, no announcements were made...snip


http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff 



http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html 



Gerry






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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and 
expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the 
duration that the oil is viable.
You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put the 
tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and then suck 
up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the paperwork, put 
the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in the mail. Later he 
emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. Couldn't possibly be 
easier unless somebody did it for you.

I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil being 
more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it again I'll 
let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres quite the rift. 
Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away from the 3,000 mile 
oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people back to it. The later 
are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing because of infrequent oil 
changes. What they aren't saying is that extended OCI on conventional oils or 
cars that require synthetic is probably they cause...

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that.  If the oil 
hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by 
then it's not going to.

For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had 
sumps well beyond 100 gallons.  Almost every one of them was changed on a 
calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis.  I'm not saying 
there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can 
provide a wealth of information about the engine.  In the stationary engine 
business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an 
aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or 
those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation.  Everyone else 
does it every two years or so.

Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and 
expense.  I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue 
on.  And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm 
not that interested in doing so.  I'm just more comfortable with changing the 
oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Did you see the pics of the plane where the whole dang top ripped off? This 
damage is minor in comparison. The only person that died in that one was a 
stewardess that was standing up. Imagine riding back to the airport in a 
convertible...

-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net; Mercedes Discussion 
List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale
 

Hey, I remain impressed by the fact that the plane flew well enough to 
land it without any further problems and
amazed that with all of the technology available today, that there is 
not something that essentially prevents the pilot from doing that.

Randy




On 16/07/2014 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
 And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

 --R


 On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
 More on this story:

 ..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially 
 until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however, 
 nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply 
 perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact 
 was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds, 
 that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb. 
 During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing 
 dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as 
 unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the 
 Madrid area, no announcements were made...snip

 http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff
  


 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html
  


 Gerry





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Second officer was Wi Tu Lo

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow
 
 --R
 
 
 On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
 More on this story:
 
 ..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially until the 
 aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however, nothing happened. The 
 nose dropped again, then rose very sharply perhaps because of the runway end 
 becoming visible. A sound of impact was heard from the back of the cabin 
 followed by scratching sounds, that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the 
 aircraft began to climb. During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, 
 the right wing dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as 
 unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the Madrid 
 area, no announcements were made...snip
 
 http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff
  
 
 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html
  
 
 Gerry
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] adjusting valves

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
I think that one went to his pay portal.

clay

On Jul 9, 2014, at 6:47 PM, Meade Dillon wrote:

 Kent Bergsma had a you tube video how to for valve adjustments that I
 can't find now.  He showed how the big nut should be turned until the
 largest gap is found, and then you adjust the gap to spec, and then double
 check by rotating that big nut around again.
 
 Max Dillon,
 Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
That was the Hawaiian 737?  Lotsa cycles on those, updownupdownupdown... 
all day long.  Salt air too.  I guess it was a testament to the airplane 
that it held together.


--R


On 7/16/14 5:56 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Did you see the pics of the plane where the whole dang top ripped off? This 
damage is minor in comparison. The only person that died in that one was a 
stewardess that was standing up. Imagine riding back to the airport in a 
convertible...

-Curt



  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale
  


Hey, I remain impressed by the fact that the plane flew well enough to
land it without any further problems and
amazed that with all of the technology available today, that there is
not something that essentially prevents the pilot from doing that.

Randy




On 16/07/2014 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:

And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

--R


On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

More on this story:

..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially
until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however,
nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply
perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact
was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds,
that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb.
During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing
dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as
unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the
Madrid area, no announcements were made...snip

http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff


http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html


Gerry





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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
Thanks.  No aux fan.  That was introduced later in the year. Hoses are a year 
old and holding well.  It was the visco clutch that failed.  Replaced it Monday.

I was a retard and took the car for a 8 hour drive around Mt. Rainier over the 
weekend.  It did fine, though did get hot

clay

On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

 Check the function of the visco clutch and make sure the auxilliary fan comes 
 on at about 100C.  With both of those out of action on a steep grade, you 
 will overheat.
 
 Also check to make sure the bottom radiator hose has not gone soft.  They can 
 collapse under high speed pump operation, starving the block of coolant.
 
 Peter
 
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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
In the 2 190Ds I've had neither had a properly working fan clutch (the 190Ds 
are electric) and as long as the car is moving it doesn't really matter. Its 
puttering along in heavy traffic that gets ya.

-Curt



 From: clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar
 

Thanks.  No aux fan.  That was introduced later in the year. Hoses are a year 
old and holding well.  It was the visco clutch that failed.  Replaced it Monday.

I was a retard and took the car for a 8 hour drive around Mt. Rainier over the 
weekend.  It did fine, though did get hot

clay

On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

 Check the function of the visco clutch and make sure the auxilliary fan comes 
 on at about 100C.  With both of those out of action on a steep grade, you 
 will overheat.
 
 Also check to make sure the bottom radiator hose has not gone soft.  They can 
 collapse under high speed pump operation, starving the block of coolant.
 
 Peter
 
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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
The issue is sort of resolved now.  The vicious fan had died, and paired with 
the screw up job the shop did trying to remove a backfire, the thing now runs 
way to rich and is all out of whack.  I real D-jet mechanic will have to 
De-tune the tune up and fiddling to get it back to proper, but I can not make 
that payment today.

Same shop was supposed to have done a full synth oil change, but after 500 
miles, the stuff looked like nine year old diesel oil.  The job was not done.

clay

On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:

 On 11/07/2014 2:38 PM, clay wrote:
 Froggy is having inconsistent cooling issues.
 
 I was taking her for an italian tune up this past weekend.  I meant to climb 
 the foothills of the Cascades about 32 miles out of town (seattle) doing 
 70mph.   I made it only 22 miles before I had to pull off because the temp 
 was climbing up to the red zone.  Got to a service station and drizzled a 
 gallon of water over the block and rad to get temp down.  I decided to head 
 back home and give it a better look.
 
 No visible leakage.  The system was holding pressure fine.  I checked the 
 oil for water, but only found it to be black and nasty.  This within 500 
 miles of a change.  I am suspecting the shop did not really change the oil.  
 So, I gave it all new oil.
 
 Thermostat was changed, along with new hoses and water pump last summer.  
 The AC does not function, so that should have no impact on temps.  I have 
 replaced the hood pad, and there are no cats living in the engine bay to add 
 to the heat soaking.
 
 Transmission filter and fluids were change two years ago, about 2k miles.
 
 Anybody have insight?
 
 
 clay
 
 
 This is the car that has had all sorts of issues is it not?
 Timing and fuel mixture can be an issue with overheating if I am not mistaken.
 Too soon, too late, or bad advance mechanism, too rich, or too lean. All of 
 the above, some of the above etc. It all needs to work together.
 Was the oil thin? Did it smell of fuel? Was there too much of it?
 
 Apart from that, if the engine seemed to be running fine, then is the rad 
 plugged? Does the fan work? Is there anything missing on the vehicle that 
 should be there, like a fan shroud or an air dam under the bumper etc?
 Is the coolant mixture ok? Too much or too little coolant with the water can 
 make for problems.
 Some cars (not necessarily MBs) were built with marginal cooling to begin 
 with. Big motor, tight engine compartment, smog controls etc so old age does 
 not help them cope when they were not all that good when they were new.
 
 Randy
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
yes.  Detergent flush, then citric, finally full tap water flush.  Buttoned 
back up with new hoses and water pump.

clay

On Jul 11, 2014, at 5:03 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

 I forget, have you given it a citric acid flush?
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
 On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 12:38 PM, clay redgh...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 Froggy is having inconsistent cooling issues.
 
 I was taking her for an italian tune up this past weekend.  I meant to
 climb the foothills of the Cascades about 32 miles out of town (seattle)
 doing 70mph.   I made it only 22 miles before I had to pull off because the
 temp was climbing up to the red zone.  Got to a service station and
 drizzled a gallon of water over the block and rad to get temp down.  I
 decided to head back home and give it a better look.
 
 No visible leakage.  The system was holding pressure fine.  I checked the
 oil for water, but only found it to be black and nasty.  This within 500
 miles of a change.  I am suspecting the shop did not really change the oil.
 So, I gave it all new oil.
 
 Thermostat was changed, along with new hoses and water pump last summer.
 The AC does not function, so that should have no impact on temps.  I have
 replaced the hood pad, and there are no cats living in the engine bay to
 add to the heat soaking.
 
 Transmission filter and fluids were change two years ago, about 2k miles.
 
 Anybody have insight?
 
 
 clay
 
 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
So clearly the money for fixing everything will come when your solicitor calls 
shop A right?

-Curt



 From: clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar
 

The issue is sort of resolved now.  The vicious fan had died, and paired with 
the screw up job the shop did trying to remove a backfire, the thing now runs 
way to rich and is all out of whack.  I real D-jet mechanic will have to 
De-tune the tune up and fiddling to get it back to proper, but I can not make 
that payment today.

Same shop was supposed to have done a full synth oil change, but after 500 
miles, the stuff looked like nine year old diesel oil.  The job was not done.

clay

On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:

 On 11/07/2014 2:38 PM, clay wrote:
 Froggy is having inconsistent cooling issues.
 
 I was taking her for an italian tune up this past weekend.  I meant to climb 
 the foothills of the Cascades about 32 miles out of town (seattle) doing 
 70mph.   I made it only 22 miles before I had to pull off because the temp 
 was climbing up to the red zone.  Got to a service station and drizzled a 
 gallon of water over the block and rad to get temp down.  I decided to head 
 back home and give it a better look.
 
 No visible leakage.  The system was holding pressure fine.  I checked the 
 oil for water, but only found it to be black and nasty.  This within 500 
 miles of a change.  I am suspecting the shop did not really change the oil.  
 So, I gave it all new oil.
 
 Thermostat was changed, along with new hoses and water pump last summer.  
 The AC does not function, so that should have no impact on temps.  I have 
 replaced the hood pad, and there are no cats living in the engine bay to add 
 to the heat soaking.
 
 Transmission filter and fluids were change two years ago, about 2k miles.
 
 Anybody have insight?
 
 
 clay
 
 
 This is the car that has had all sorts of issues is it not?
 Timing and fuel mixture can be an issue with overheating if I am not mistaken.
 Too soon, too late, or bad advance mechanism, too rich, or too lean. All of 
 the above, some of the above etc. It all needs to work together.
 Was the oil thin? Did it smell of fuel? Was there too much of it?
 
 Apart from that, if the engine seemed to be running fine, then is the rad 
 plugged? Does the fan work? Is there anything missing on the vehicle that 
 should be there, like a fan shroud or an air dam under the bumper etc?
 Is the coolant mixture ok? Too much or too little coolant with the water can 
 make for problems.
 Some cars (not necessarily MBs) were built with marginal cooling to begin 
 with. Big motor, tight engine compartment, smog controls etc so old age does 
 not help them cope when they were not all that good when they were new.
 
 Randy
 
 
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[MBZ] W140 Front calipers - FS

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
I picked up a pair of front calipers from a 95 S500 thinking that they would 
fit in a 92 300SE.  The things are universal fit for 95-99 W140.  Lucas, in 
very good shape and include nearly new brake pads.  Ship from 98105 with UPS 
Ground.  Does $200 sound like too much?

clay
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes


 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times?

Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated 
by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being 
run under load, and even then the load is fairly small.  It's not uncommon to 
find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines 
due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase.

 Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep 
 machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs 
 by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 
 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it 
 early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis...

Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience 
that very few of their standby power end users do it. The expense is often seen 
as something of an extravagance, and since the typical life of these units far 
exceeds their service life, most customers forego sampling.

Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs in 
place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost.  It's the ones who 
have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense.

Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a 
certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked up 
by the service provider.  Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil sample 
costs them.

 I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about 
 whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't 
 really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive 
 like 4x as much as you do.

My cars perform, and perform well.  If I found that my cam bearings were 
wearing, for example, I would dump the car.  It's not that I don't care, as 
that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations, and 
that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously. With that 
in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long or longer than 
MB would predict.  If fluid sampling was relevant or added value under normal 
operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it necessary, nor does any 
other car manufacturer.

Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's 
overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all.

Dan







 
 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that.  If the 
 oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these 
 claims) by then it's not going to.
 
 For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that 
 had sumps well beyond 100 gallons.  Almost every one of them was changed on a 
 calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis.  I'm not 
 saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly 
 it can provide a wealth of information about the engine.  In the stationary 
 engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have 
 an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, 
 and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation.  Everyone 
 else does it every two years or so.
 
 Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle 
 and expense.  I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and 
 continue on.  And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long 
 run, but I'm not that interested in doing so.  I'm just more comfortable with 
 changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate.
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 124 AC woe

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
Probably not the solution you desire, but I found out you can use coil cleaning 
spray product to dislodge the built up snot on the condenser and it does 
increase the cooling effect.  I gave it a shot on my S430 and what was once 
blackened became silvery once more.  The warm weather had been taxing the 
cooling for both AC and engine, and now the gauge does not climb much beyond 
100 at idle.  Vent temps are cold.  Not ice, but cold

clay


On Jul 12, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Meade Dillon wrote:

 Today I've re-charged the AC in my '95 E300 Diesel in order to have some
 decent cooling for the rest of the season.  I added about 2 oz of PAG46
 compressor oil and about 12 oz of R-134, and the pressure gauges didn't
 quite show a full charge (21 Bar on the high side, a little of 2 bar on the
 low side, at about 25 deg C ambient).
 
 The vent temperature was really nice, it would pull down to 0 deg F.
 
 I had a lot of trouble with the serpentine belt slipping, tried cleaning
 the cheapo Gates belt (from Napa a while back), tried an old belt from my
 wagon (too big, also slipped), finally I mounted the brand new Conti belt I
 had in the correct size, which I'd been saving to use after I re-seal or
 replace the leaking power steering pump.  The pump is not leaking now, I've
 let the hydraulic fluid reservoir for the ASD get low.
 
 So finally I put on the new belt, I was very happy with the vent
 temperatures, but then the compressor started cutting out for no apparent
 reason.  The belt was not slipping that I could detect.
 
 Took a test drive, while on the road with no stop/start, the compressor
 seems to run fine and then cut out.  I suspect the evaporator temperature
 is getting too cold, so the PBU is shutting off the compressor.  If I shut
 off the car and restart, the compressor will engage again.
 
 Anyone have a suggestion?
 
 Thanks,
 Max
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Not sure I understand. Every industrial engine sampling program I ever ran was 
sampled on a regular schedule.

I understand the baseline concept, but in the programs I worked with we would 
sample several times a year to determine the oil condition to determine when it 
was exhausted and should be changed.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 You know you don't continue with the samples right? You get a good baseline 
 and then continue with your OCI...
 Plus this gives you a baseline so you know whats inside your engine...
 
 -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 I just did the math on this and it doesn't make sense. Here's what I'm 
 thinking:
 
 7.5 quarts of oil = $34.50
 Oil filter = $10.00
 
 Oil change total = $44.50
 
 Twice a year = $89.00
 
 Oil change = $44.50
 Oil samples = $60.00
 
 Once a year oil change + samples = $104.50
 
 
 I could dink around with the frequencies of samplings and changes, but let's 
 say you do it over a year as shown above. You're spending more than two oil 
 changes. Push it out to 18 months and the difference is marginal at best.
 
 The numbers just don't add up or make sense to me.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and 
 expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the 
 duration that the oil is viable.
 You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put 
 the tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and 
 then suck up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the 
 paperwork, put the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in 
 the mail. Later he emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. 
 Couldn't possibly be easier unless somebody did it for you.
 
 I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil 
 being more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it 
 again I'll let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres 
 quite the rift. Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away 
 from the 3,000 mile oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people 
 back to it. The later are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing 
 because of infrequent oil changes. What they aren't saying is that extended 
 OCI on conventional oils or cars that require synthetic is probably they 
 cause...
 
 -Curt
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
My experience with Caterpillar is limited to earthmovers where everybody does 
the samples. They sample hydraulic fluid too, a breakdown at a job site is way 
more expensive than pulling samples.

I was under the impression over the road truckers were doing it too, another 
case where a breakdown simply isn't worth it.

I'm a little surprised there aren't systems to polish the oil or heat the 
condensation out of it. Seems like a little heat would be big savings if we 
were talking about that substantial an amount of oil.

-Curt



 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 



 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times?

Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated 
by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being 
run under load, and even then the load is fairly small.  It's not uncommon to 
find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines 
due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase.

 Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep 
 machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs 
 by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 
 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it 
 early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis...

Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience 
that very few of their standby power end users do it. The expense is often seen 
as something of an extravagance, and since the typical life of these units far 
exceeds their service life, most customers forego sampling.

Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs in 
place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost.  It's the ones who 
have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense.

Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a 
certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked up 
by the service provider.  Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil sample 
costs them.

 I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about 
 whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't 
 really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive 
 like 4x as much as you do.

My cars perform, and perform well.  If I found that my cam bearings were 
wearing, for example, I would dump the car.  It's not that I don't care, as 
that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations, and 
that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously. With that 
in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long or longer than 
MB would predict.  If fluid sampling was relevant or added value under normal 
operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it necessary, nor does any 
other car manufacturer.

Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's 
overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes

Aloha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

The plane had about 90K cycles which was 2.5 times the number it was 
designed for according to the article.





On 16/07/2014 5:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
That was the Hawaiian 737?  Lotsa cycles on those, 
updownupdownupdown... all day long.  Salt air too.  I guess it was a 
testament to the airplane that it held together.


--R


On 7/16/14 5:56 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
Did you see the pics of the plane where the whole dang top ripped 
off? This damage is minor in comparison. The only person that died in 
that one was a stewardess that was standing up. Imagine riding back 
to the airport in a convertible...


-Curt



  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net; Mercedes 
Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

Hey, I remain impressed by the fact that the plane flew well enough to
land it without any further problems and
amazed that with all of the technology available today, that there is
not something that essentially prevents the pilot from doing that.

Randy




On 16/07/2014 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:

And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

--R


On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

More on this story:

..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially
until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however,
nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply
perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact
was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds,
that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb.
During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing
dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as
unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the
Madrid area, no announcements were made...snip

http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff 




http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html 




Gerry





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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread G. M. Brown via Mercedes
Since my '84 300D may very well be my last car and I didn't want to take a 
chance on used fenders from a junkyard, I obtained a couple fenders from the 
Classic Center in CA.  As I recall, the price wasn't too exorbitant and the 
fellow ( jon.sigg...@mbusa.com ) I dealt with was very helpful.  Good luck.

G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC
  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
Yeah I vaguely recalled something like that. I guess Boeings are sorta 
the Mercedes of airplanes, but the German airplanes (and French etc. 
Airbuses) not quite.


--R


On 7/16/14 6:48 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:

Aloha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

The plane had about 90K cycles which was 2.5 times the number it was 
designed for according to the article.





On 16/07/2014 5:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
That was the Hawaiian 737?  Lotsa cycles on those, 
updownupdownupdown... all day long.  Salt air too.  I guess it was a 
testament to the airplane that it held together.


--R


On 7/16/14 5:56 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
Did you see the pics of the plane where the whole dang top ripped 
off? This damage is minor in comparison. The only person that died 
in that one was a stewardess that was standing up. Imagine riding 
back to the airport in a convertible...


-Curt



  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net; Mercedes 
Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

Hey, I remain impressed by the fact that the plane flew well enough to
land it without any further problems and
amazed that with all of the technology available today, that there is
not something that essentially prevents the pilot from doing that.

Randy




On 16/07/2014 4:47 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:

And the pilot was Bang Ding Ow

--R


On 7/15/14 10:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

More on this story:

..A passenger reported the takeoff appeared normal initially
until the aircraft began to rotate, the nose lifted up, however,
nothing happened. The nose dropped again, then rose very sharply
perhaps because of the runway end becoming visible. A sound of impact
was heard from the back of the cabin followed by scratching sounds,
that lasted for about 5 seconds, then the aircraft began to climb.
During the initial climb the aircraft was shaking, the right wing
dropped which the passenger, frequent traveller, perceived as
unusual. The aircraft continued to climb heading north out of the
Madrid area, no announcements were made...snip

http://www.aeroinside.com/item/2336/aeromexico-b762-at-madrid-on-apr-16th-2013-tail-strike-on-takeoff 




http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta-12858.html 




Gerry





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Re: [MBZ] W140 Front calipers - FS

2014-07-16 Thread Gary Hurst via Mercedes
200 for the pair?  they are new or rebuilt?  what is the last 7 of your VIN?


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:36 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 I picked up a pair of front calipers from a 95 S500 thinking that they
 would fit in a 92 300SE.  The things are universal fit for 95-99 W140.
  Lucas, in very good shape and include nearly new brake pads.  Ship from
 98105 with UPS Ground.  Does $200 sound like too much?

 clay
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-- 


*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
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Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar

2014-07-16 Thread clay via Mercedes
It was a club event that introduced the troublesome shop.  They were having a 
great savings deal if you scheduled a procedure.  I went with the oil change.  
And for them to look into the back firing issue.  They found many issues I knew 
of, as well as some that had been addressed, and they wanted to address as 
well.  The crap wires I got from Q got replaces, and contact point that were 
not old, as well as a host of other already dealt with parts.  The price got 
out of hand, so I called it quits and took the car back.  IT ran much worse 
leaving than it did on delivery.

I provided prior work orders to show what had been done.  It was ignored.  The 
shop monkey was not versed on older cars, and just went swinging wrenches.  
D-jets will rack up fees if you toss parts, or adjust the crap out of them with 
no clue.  He did all that and more.  

The vacuum system has leaks.  I am going to need to tackle that.  IT may solve 
the door lock issue and the fuel delivery troubles.

clay


On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 So clearly the money for fixing everything will come when your solicitor 
 calls shop A right?
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot under the collar
 
 
 The issue is sort of resolved now.  The vicious fan had died, and paired with 
 the screw up job the shop did trying to remove a backfire, the thing now runs 
 way to rich and is all out of whack.  I real D-jet mechanic will have to 
 De-tune the tune up and fiddling to get it back to proper, but I can not 
 make that payment today.
 
 Same shop was supposed to have done a full synth oil change, but after 500 
 miles, the stuff looked like nine year old diesel oil.  The job was not done.
 
 clay
 
 On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:
 
 On 11/07/2014 2:38 PM, clay wrote:
 Froggy is having inconsistent cooling issues.
 
 I was taking her for an italian tune up this past weekend.  I meant to 
 climb the foothills of the Cascades about 32 miles out of town (seattle) 
 doing 70mph.   I made it only 22 miles before I had to pull off because the 
 temp was climbing up to the red zone.  Got to a service station and 
 drizzled a gallon of water over the block and rad to get temp down.  I 
 decided to head back home and give it a better look.
 
 No visible leakage.  The system was holding pressure fine.  I checked the 
 oil for water, but only found it to be black and nasty.  This within 500 
 miles of a change.  I am suspecting the shop did not really change the oil. 
  So, I gave it all new oil.
 
 Thermostat was changed, along with new hoses and water pump last summer.  
 The AC does not function, so that should have no impact on temps.  I have 
 replaced the hood pad, and there are no cats living in the engine bay to 
 add to the heat soaking.
 
 Transmission filter and fluids were change two years ago, about 2k miles.
 
 Anybody have insight?
 
 
 clay
 
 
 This is the car that has had all sorts of issues is it not?
 Timing and fuel mixture can be an issue with overheating if I am not 
 mistaken.
 Too soon, too late, or bad advance mechanism, too rich, or too lean. All of 
 the above, some of the above etc. It all needs to work together.
 Was the oil thin? Did it smell of fuel? Was there too much of it?
 
 Apart from that, if the engine seemed to be running fine, then is the rad 
 plugged? Does the fan work? Is there anything missing on the vehicle that 
 should be there, like a fan shroud or an air dam under the bumper etc?
 Is the coolant mixture ok? Too much or too little coolant with the water can 
 make for problems.
 Some cars (not necessarily MBs) were built with marginal cooling to begin 
 with. Big motor, tight engine compartment, smog controls etc so old age does 
 not help them cope when they were not all that good when they were new.
 
 Randy
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
The earthmoving equipment side of Cat is a totally different animal compared to 
their Power Systems business.  The earthmoving guys have totally brainwashed 
the customers that the only service they can use is Cat, and to do anything 
that isn't recommended by the factory is heresy and can result in horrible, 
horrible things.  It's actually a great thing for them, since they make 
boatloads of money off of this approach.

With the exception of the prime power side, the standby generator community for 
the most part sees through a lot of this and as a result won't or doesn't 
follow a lot of their recommendations.  Especially because there are plenty of 
competitors out there who can do the exact same thing for less, usually a lot 
less.

Here's an example:

Got a call one day from FedEx.  They had a 300kW Cat generator at one of their 
facilities.  The local Cat distributor had been maintaining it.  It needed a 
cooling system flush and refill along with a set of batteries.  We're talking 
about two 8D batteries and about 10 gallons of coolant.  One of my guys could 
do the work in about two hours, three if they took their time.

Caterpillar wanted $1800 to swap the batteries alone.

We did the whole job for less than that and made a very nice profit.

Nothing special here, we used proper industrial grade batteries and coolant on 
the Cat approved fluids list.

Needless to say that we signed a nice annual maintenance agreement with them 
shortly after the work was completed.

The local Cat distributor was notorious for this sort of stuff, and their 
approach was no different than the others - if it's Cat, you're going to pay a 
premium for the parts and service.

Here's another - one of my favorites:

The Department of Corrections got a deal on some surplus generators from the 
Iraq invasion.  A couple of 400kW Caterpillar units.  But - and here's the 
catch - they were 50Hz units.  Oooops!

So the State brings the Cat guys in.  They say the injection pumps need to be 
replaced to the tune of many thousands of dollars.  Now understand that the 
only thing that needs to happen is the speed of the engines has to be increased 
from 1500 RPM to 1800 RPM.  According to the Cat guys you can't just turn up 
the speed, as they won't fuel properly, etc., etc.

We have a contract with the Dept. of Corrections for many of their sites.  
Their head generator guy calls us out to look things over.

We gather all the information we can and then go consult with our diesel fuel 
and injection supplier.  What do we need to do?  Replace a $3.00 spring in the 
injection pumps and turn up the speed.  This is all they would do on the bench 
to accomplish what is needed.

We replace the springs and run a four hour 100% load bank test to prove the 
units will do what is expected.  I think our final bill was around $2,500.  Cat 
had quoted them something like $17,000 if memory serves me correctly.

They were our best customer.  We just followed them around and picked off 
customers left and right.

Dan


On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

 My experience with Caterpillar is limited to earthmovers where everybody does 
 the samples. They sample hydraulic fluid too, a breakdown at a job site is 
 way more expensive than pulling samples.
 
 I was under the impression over the road truckers were doing it too, another 
 case where a breakdown simply isn't worth it.
 
 I'm a little surprised there aren't systems to polish the oil or heat the 
 condensation out of it. Seems like a little heat would be big savings if we 
 were talking about that substantial an amount of oil.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times?
 
 Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often 
 contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the 
 engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small.  
 It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the 
 crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off 
 moisture in the crankcase.
 
 Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep 
 machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance 
 costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that 
 held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, 
 changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis...
 
 Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience 
 that very few of their standby power end users do it. The 

Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Depends on what you're looking for. If the idea is just to figure out a safe 
OCI you make a couple tests, like 5,000, 7,500, 10,000. If 10,000 looks good 
its probably fine to repeat. If 10,000 looks marginal you could make another 
run at it (I had to do that with my '85 190D, the previous owner must have used 
crappy oil and the M1 cleaned the engine over time) or go back to your last 
good test interval and call that good enough.

For instance with my '85 190D I once took it all the way to 15,000 and the oil 
still tested fine. I dropped back to 10,000 mile OCI (twice a year at the time) 
and called that good enough since it meant I could change the oil in the fall 
and not worry about it all winter plus I knew I had a good safety margin.

If the idea is to really watch for changes in the engine then ongoing samples 
are called for but it sounds like thats something you're not interested in.

Curt



 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 

Not sure I understand. Every industrial engine sampling program I ever ran was 
sampled on a regular schedule.

I understand the baseline concept, but in the programs I worked with we would 
sample several times a year to determine the oil condition to determine when it 
was exhausted and should be changed.

Dan

Sent from my iPad




 On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 You know you don't continue with the samples right? You get a good baseline 
 and then continue with your OCI...
 Plus this gives you a baseline so you know whats inside your engine...
 
 -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 I just did the math on this and it doesn't make sense. Here's what I'm 
 thinking:
 
 7.5 quarts of oil = $34.50
 Oil filter = $10.00
 
 Oil change total = $44.50
 
 Twice a year = $89.00
 
 Oil change = $44.50
 Oil samples = $60.00
 
 Once a year oil change + samples = $104.50
 
 
 I could dink around with the frequencies of samplings and changes, but let's 
 say you do it over a year as shown above. You're spending more than two oil 
 changes. Push it out to 18 months and the difference is marginal at best.
 
 The numbers just don't add up or make sense to me.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and 
 expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the 
 duration that the oil is viable.
 You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put 
 the tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and 
 then suck up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the 
 paperwork, put the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in 
 the mail. Later he emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. 
 Couldn't possibly be easier unless somebody did it for you.
 
 I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil 
 being more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it 
 again I'll let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres 
 quite the rift. Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away 
 from the 3,000 mile oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people 
 back to it. The later are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing 
 because of infrequent oil changes. What they aren't saying is that extended 
 OCI on conventional oils or cars that require synthetic is probably they 
 cause...
 
 -Curt
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
This SOP for industrial engines.  You sample on a regular basis, after a few 
samples you have a baseline and then you just compare each new one to determine 
if there is excessive or unusual wear in a particular area.

Same thing for hydraulic fluids.

Your Cat buddies are watching for changes in the chemical and metal levels in 
the oil to see how the engine is wearing.  They'll also look at the oil 
condition as well.  You can pretty well estimate when you need specific 
services on the engine based on changes in the levels of certain metals.

That's how they'll decide to do valve jobs, replace bearings, etc.  We;re 
talking about engines with thousands of hours on them. too.  This is in lieu of 
using a chronological framework to establish maintenance levels.  Over the long 
term it makes a lot of sense and is the least expensive way to maintain things. 
 It also allows them to anticipate certain maintenance jobs as well.

Dan



On Jul 16, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

 If the idea is to really watch for changes in the engine then ongoing samples 
 are called for but it sounds like thats something you're not interested in.
 
 Curt
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Dan wrote:
 Wasn't there a place in Cleveland that made all sorts of replacement panels 
 for cars?


I thought it was a place in MI that sold panels and floors.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Another Fkying Tale

2014-07-16 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
How about this thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzr313wSY_Y
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
--R wrote:
 It's the best oil for your Mercedes

nuttin' like an oil thread to spark more traffic
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
It is my understanding that BIG Diesels have additional filtering that
removes soot from the oil but these soot filters are not cost-effective for
our little automotive Diesels.  Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot
more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change
intervals for a new tight engine.  My one remaining Diesel car may have a
tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent.
So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip
sampling.  If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different
strategy.

Scott

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
 Penoff via Mercedes
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:40 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 
  On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run
 times?
 
 Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often
 contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the
 engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly
 small.  It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of
 the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil
 off moisture in the crankcase.
 
  Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them
 keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers
 maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine
 with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out
 of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a
 $20 analysis...
 
 Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct
 experience that very few of their standby power end users do it. The
 expense is often seen as something of an extravagance, and since the
 typical life of these units far exceeds their service life, most customers
 forego sampling.
 
 Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs
 in place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost.  It's the ones
 who have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense.
 
 Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a
 certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked
 up by the service provider.  Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil
 sample costs them.
 
  I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care
 about whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite
 treatment, I don't really mind what they look like, they have to perform.
 Then again I drive like 4x as much as you do.
 
 My cars perform, and perform well.  If I found that my cam bearings were
 wearing, for example, I would dump the car.  It's not that I don't care,
 as that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations,
 and that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously.
 With that in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long
 or longer than MB would predict.  If fluid sampling was relevant or added
 value under normal operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it
 necessary, nor does any other car manufacturer.
 
 Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's
 overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all.
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
  I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that.  If
 the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for
 these claims) by then it's not going to.
 
  For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP
 that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons.  Almost every one of them was
 changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil
 analysis.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in
 fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the
 engine.  In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do
 oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that
 pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime
 power (continuous) operation.  Everyone else does it every two years or
 so.
 
  Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional
 hassle and expense.  I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with
 and continue on.  And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the
 long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so.  I'm just more
 comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I
 think is 

Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
For the most part large displacement stationary diesels have nothing more than 
banks of large spin on or cartridge type filters, much like you would find on 
your car engine. They're just larger and often in multiples in order to provide 
a larger filter area for the much larger oil volume.

Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as well. These 
are literally centrifuges that spin the oil at very high RPMs in order to 
remove particulates.

There are also particulate traps installed on the exhaust, but when I was still 
in the business these were in their infancy. They weren't very efficient and 
required frequent service.

Dan



Sent from my iPad

 On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 It is my understanding that BIG Diesels have additional filtering that
 removes soot from the oil but these soot filters are not cost-effective for
 our little automotive Diesels.  Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot
 more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change
 intervals for a new tight engine.  My one remaining Diesel car may have a
 tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent.
 So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip
 sampling.  If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different
 strategy.
 
 Scott
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
 Penoff via Mercedes
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:40 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
 
 
 
 On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run
 times?
 
 Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often
 contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the
 engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly
 small.  It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of
 the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil
 off moisture in the crankcase.
 
 Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them
 keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers
 maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine
 with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out
 of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a
 $20 analysis...

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
Try KK manufacturing.  They used to make nearly all the body panels  
for W115 and W109 cars, so it's possible they do W123s as well.  Don't  
know for a fact since it's been a while since I thought about  
restoring one.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
All of my (previous) MB Diesels with at or over 200,000 miles were sampled,
and determined that at 15,000 mile change intervals they could go another
3-5k miles due to soot level. All other elements were in tolerance as well.
Bear in mind that they leaked enough oil that there were several quarts
added between changes. The plus side was that my driveway was always nice
and black and shed water like a duck's back.


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot
 more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change
 intervals for a new tight engine.  My one remaining Diesel car may have a
 tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent.
 So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip
 sampling.  If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different
 strategy.

 Scott





-- 
OK Don

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There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

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2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as 
well.


As do some small motorcycles!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World

2014-07-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
As did Fiats, Renaults, and Simcas in the '60s and 70's. It was in the
crank pulley. They did not have oil filters. You pulled the cover from the
crank pulley and dug out the compressed sludge.


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as well.


 As do some small motorcycles!

 -- Jim



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] 123 Body Panels

2014-07-16 Thread Gary Hurst via Mercedes
yeah, that's the one dickarde always talks about


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Try KK manufacturing.  They used to make nearly all the body panels for
 W115 and W109 cars, so it's possible they do W123s as well.  Don't know for
 a fact since it's been a while since I thought about restoring one.

 Peter


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