Re: [MBZ] AC Questions

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

 
Dan Penoff wrote:
> >> OK, so I’ve charged the system with the proper amount of “industrial 
> >> ES-12a”.  Ot cools, but even on the road the best vent temperature I can 
> >> get is about 60F.  Come to a stop and idle and it pops up to 70F.

G: This makes me wonder if outside air is coming into the air circulation 
system, or possibly that the pump clutch is slipping at higher rpm.
 
> >> Pressures at 1500 rpm are around 40-45 PSI on the low side, 225 on the 
> >> high side.

G: What are the recommended pressures at 6-800 rpm, a utility fan blowing into 
the radiator/condenser, and the thermostat set on highest cooling?
 
> >> I’m reluctant to add more refrigerant due to the low side pressure being 
> >> what it is, however, it’s clear I’m not getting enough heat transfer.

G: If you are sure the recommended amount of refrigerant in the system is 
correct by weight, adding more could cause additional problems.

G: Did you install a new filter/dryer before vacuuming and charging the system?

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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

In your shoes, I'd try adding a bit more while watching the vent temperature, 
see if the vent temperatures come down.  If you're already overcharged, you'll 
just be more overcharged.  If you're under-charged, you'll see an improvement.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:48:20 -0400
Dan Penoff via Mercedes  wrote:

> I fully understand the fundamentals of an AC system, however, I noticed 
> something today while working with my car that has me scratching my head.  
> Maybe it’s obvious and I’m just missing something but I figured I would toss 
> it out here and see what the collective AC wisdom says:
> 
> **System is running at idle rpm.**
> 
> Pressures are around 50 psi low side, near 200 high side.  If I turn on the 
> auxiliary fans, the low side pressure goes up.  Why is this?
> 
> I would think they would stay the same or possibly drop, as I would expect 
> this causes the high pressure gas to condense more rapidly, turing it back 
> into a liquid.  As for the state change, why would that cause the *low* side 
> pressure to increase? 
>  
> Dan
> _
When there is less air flow, there is more gas and less liquid in the 
condenser. When there is more air flow, there less gas and more liquid in the 
condenser.
At lower air flow, the relatively higher amount of gas in the condenser 
compresses.
At higher air flow, the relatively lower amount of gas in the condenser does 
not compress as much and the pressure is higher; all other parameters being the 
same.

I would guess that is theoretically correct but may not be correct in practice.


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[MBZ] "rat rod" parts -- Mercedes stuff

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Saw this on a local buy/sell FB page:


Cleaning out the garage... where would you recommend posting items for 
sale - like motorcycles or 'rat rod cars' and car parts? TIA for all 
replies... /:)/


Like 

Comment 


   Comments

Elizabeth Peckham Whitworth 
What kind of cars?!
Like · Reply 
· 2 hrs 

Tonya Weber a 'rat rod 
car' is a car that isn't much to look at on the exterior but has a 
ridiculously powerful engine beneath the hood... have one rat rod left - 
1972 Mercedes 280SE 4.5... have a set of Mercedes AMG rims... have a few 
MB engines (don't know enough to explain those w/o hubs)... have a 2003 
Mercedes SLK320 silver convertible 71k miles - excellent condition 
PM me for more info... be sure to tell me you sent PM or it will get lost...
Like · Reply 
· 2 hrs 





--
--BB

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Re: [MBZ] In praise of the old DIN standard

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

18mm is NOT DIN.  THAT is how DIN relates ≠ to a 18mm nut. (or a 15mm 
nut)  DIN would be 17mm or 19mm.  Common sizes.   17mm or 19mm are DIN 
standard sizes, and normal wrenches fit, even if you only have SAE 
wrenches.   I love stuff built to DIN.  Asian and now Merkun stuff uses 
oddball sizes, kind of like whitworth.  Non DIN stuff is a PITA!



Craig via Mercedes 
June 25, 2016 at 6:52 PM
On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:48:49 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes


DIN = Deutsches Institut für Normung e. V.
(German Institute for Standardization)

---
http://www.din.de/en/about-standards/a-brief-introduction-to-standards

Who is DIN?

DIN is a privately organized non-profit provider of standardization
services with nearly 100 years' experience. More than 32,000 external
experts from industry, research, consumer protection and the public
sector come together at DIN to develop market-oriented standards and
specifications that promote global trade and innovations, assure
efficiency and quality, and help protect the environment and society as a
whole. DIN deals with subjects ranging from A as in Acoustics to Z as in
Zinc. A focus is also placed on trending topics such as Industry 4.0 and
smart cities. According to an agreement with the German Federal
Government, DIN is the acknowledged national standards body that
represents German interests in European and international standards work.
---

So how DIN as a German entity relates to your 18 mm nuts, I don't know.


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

That's the deal with blends, you would have to remove it all and charge again 
because the different gasses leak off at different rates.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m going to go with this for a few days and see how it works.  If it’s as 
> good as R134a I’ll leave it in until I can swing a larger condenser, and at 
> that time I’ll go back to R134a.
> 
> If I’ve overcharged how do I know how much to remove?  Or do I just have to 
> evacuate and start all over again?
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate blend refrigerants. I have used them before and one time they work 
>> fine and another time they don't. I can only assume one of the component 
>> ratios was off or something.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

How do you get to the center vent?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I replaced the center vent actuator tonight.  Figured I had gone this far I 
> might as well go for broke.
> 
> What a pig!  It was very unpleasant, but I was able to do it.
> 
> Now I have center vents again.
> 
> So a defrost actuator and the left side recirculation door actuator and I’m 
> good.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:46 PM, WILTON via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just remembered:  My (Tim's) '91 350SDL does not have a glove box; has an 
>> air bag in that space.
>> 
>> Wilt
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "WILTON via Mercedes" 
>> 
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Cc: "WILTON" 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R
>> 
>> 
>>> 'Nother ATTABOY!  Make that a double ATTABOY for extraordinary achievement! 
>>> I do love and enjoy innovation!
>>> 
>>> Wilt
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
>>> 
>>> To: "Mercedes List" 
>>> Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:39 AM
>>> Subject: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R
>>> 
>>> 
 Mine is leaking, causing all my nice cold air to go to the windshield. Not 
 typically a big deal, if you can get past the initial lack of a cold air 
 blast from the vents you normally get upon starting up the car. However, 
 the leak is also causing the system to act weird since vacuum is being 
 diverted from other parts of the system along with fogging up my 
 windshield during early morning drives, too.
 
 Everything I have read in the various forums would indicate that you have 
 to remove the dash to get to this actuator due to its location, high and 
 to the right of the ACC system in the console.
 
 I'm in the process of preparing the system for hydrocarbon refrigerant 
 today, so while I was sitting in the cabin and pondering the hassle of 
 removing the dash at some time in the future, I realized that this 
 actuator is to the immediate left of the glovebox.
 
 Since removal of the glovebox liner is a simple and quick operation, I did 
 so.
 
 Imagine my amazement when I pulled back some of the ever present sound 
 insulation that literally envelopes everything under the dash I could see 
 the defrost actuator and its lever!
 
 I was able to unhook the lever, rotate the actuator to unlock it from the 
 bracket, and pull off the vacuum lines.  Huzzah!
 
 But - the actual extrication of the actuator was far more difficult.  It 
 took some serious gyrations and pressure to get it out of the bracket and 
 free the actuator rod from the bracket.  That being said, I got it out 
 undamaged!
 
 I plugged the vacuum lines and then taped the defrost door lever in the 
 "closed" position, as it's quite unlikely I'll need defrost any time soon.
 
 I have a new actuator on the way from AutohausAZ, who had the best price 
 on this particular actuator (but not all.)  Hopefully, I'll be able to 
 install the new actuator without too much effort or possible damage.
 
 A separate thread on the hydrocarbon refrigerant later today.  I'm pulling 
 a vacuum for several hours on the system to be sure it's as dry as 
 possible.
 
 Dan
 
 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 115 Mercedes Steering Wheel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Quite rare to find one that isn't cracked. Might be worth it.
On Jun 25, 2016 9:34 PM, "Fred Moir via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Not, etc.
>
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
>
> 
> From: nore...@craigslist.org 
> Sent: 25 June 2016 23:44
> To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Mercedes Steering Wheel
>
>
> fred.s...@verizon.net forwarded you this from craigslist:
>
> 
> Mercedes Steering Wheel
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/pts/5642521770.html
>
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>
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>
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m going to go with this for a few days and see how it works.  If it’s as good 
as R134a I’ll leave it in until I can swing a larger condenser, and at that 
time I’ll go back to R134a.

If I’ve overcharged how do I know how much to remove?  Or do I just have to 
evacuate and start all over again?

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hate blend refrigerants. I have used them before and one time they work 
> fine and another time they don't. I can only assume one of the component 
> ratios was off or something.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I replaced the center vent actuator tonight.  Figured I had gone this far I 
might as well go for broke.

What a pig!  It was very unpleasant, but I was able to do it.

Now I have center vents again.

So a defrost actuator and the left side recirculation door actuator and I’m 
good.

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:46 PM, WILTON via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Just remembered:  My (Tim's) '91 350SDL does not have a glove box; has an air 
> bag in that space.
> 
> Wilt
> 
> - Original Message - From: "WILTON via Mercedes" 
> 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Cc: "WILTON" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 1:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R
> 
> 
>> 'Nother ATTABOY!  Make that a double ATTABOY for extraordinary achievement! 
>> I do love and enjoy innovation!
>> 
>> Wilt
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
>> 
>> To: "Mercedes List" 
>> Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:39 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R
>> 
>> 
>>> Mine is leaking, causing all my nice cold air to go to the windshield. Not 
>>> typically a big deal, if you can get past the initial lack of a cold air 
>>> blast from the vents you normally get upon starting up the car. However, 
>>> the leak is also causing the system to act weird since vacuum is being 
>>> diverted from other parts of the system along with fogging up my windshield 
>>> during early morning drives, too.
>>> 
>>> Everything I have read in the various forums would indicate that you have 
>>> to remove the dash to get to this actuator due to its location, high and to 
>>> the right of the ACC system in the console.
>>> 
>>> I'm in the process of preparing the system for hydrocarbon refrigerant 
>>> today, so while I was sitting in the cabin and pondering the hassle of 
>>> removing the dash at some time in the future, I realized that this actuator 
>>> is to the immediate left of the glovebox.
>>> 
>>> Since removal of the glovebox liner is a simple and quick operation, I did 
>>> so.
>>> 
>>> Imagine my amazement when I pulled back some of the ever present sound 
>>> insulation that literally envelopes everything under the dash I could see 
>>> the defrost actuator and its lever!
>>> 
>>> I was able to unhook the lever, rotate the actuator to unlock it from the 
>>> bracket, and pull off the vacuum lines.  Huzzah!
>>> 
>>> But - the actual extrication of the actuator was far more difficult.  It 
>>> took some serious gyrations and pressure to get it out of the bracket and 
>>> free the actuator rod from the bracket.  That being said, I got it out 
>>> undamaged!
>>> 
>>> I plugged the vacuum lines and then taped the defrost door lever in the 
>>> "closed" position, as it's quite unlikely I'll need defrost any time soon.
>>> 
>>> I have a new actuator on the way from AutohausAZ, who had the best price on 
>>> this particular actuator (but not all.)  Hopefully, I'll be able to install 
>>> the new actuator without too much effort or possible damage.
>>> 
>>> A separate thread on the hydrocarbon refrigerant later today.  I'm pulling 
>>> a vacuum for several hours on the system to be sure it's as dry as possible.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I hate blend refrigerants. I have used them before and one time they work fine 
and another time they don't. I can only assume one of the component ratios was 
off or something.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m sure there’s no air in the system.  Recommended charge with the es-12a 
> industrial is 14 ounces based on an R12 capacity of 2.5 pounds. That’s two 
> cans plus a third of a third can.  That’s what I put in it based on weight.
> 
> Right now I’m seeing low side pressure in the 45 psi range and high pressure 
> in the 225 psi range with an ambient of about 85F-90F and high humidity.  
> According to their information I should be seeing lower pressures than one 
> would expect with R134a or R12.
> 
> Tonight I took a drive and was seeing vent temperatures down to around 55F, 
> but it was cooler outside since the sun was down, of course.
> 
> I’m wondering if this stuff needs to circulate around a bit before it really 
> starts working?
> 
> I’ll leave the system charged and drive it tomorrow to see how it works.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> A clogged expansion valve results in extra-low inlet pressures, as the
>> thing tries to suck a vacuum.  Overcharged?  Air in it anyway?
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Just remembered:  My (Tim's) '91 350SDL does not have a glove box; has an 
air bag in that space.


Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "WILTON" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R


'Nother ATTABOY!  Make that a double ATTABOY for extraordinary 
achievement! I do love and enjoy innovation!


Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes List" 
Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:39 AM
Subject: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R


Mine is leaking, causing all my nice cold air to go to the windshield. 
Not typically a big deal, if you can get past the initial lack of a cold 
air blast from the vents you normally get upon starting up the car. 
However, the leak is also causing the system to act weird since vacuum is 
being diverted from other parts of the system along with fogging up my 
windshield during early morning drives, too.


Everything I have read in the various forums would indicate that you have 
to remove the dash to get to this actuator due to its location, high and 
to the right of the ACC system in the console.


I'm in the process of preparing the system for hydrocarbon refrigerant 
today, so while I was sitting in the cabin and pondering the hassle of 
removing the dash at some time in the future, I realized that this 
actuator is to the immediate left of the glovebox.


Since removal of the glovebox liner is a simple and quick operation, I 
did so.


Imagine my amazement when I pulled back some of the ever present sound 
insulation that literally envelopes everything under the dash I could see 
the defrost actuator and its lever!


I was able to unhook the lever, rotate the actuator to unlock it from the 
bracket, and pull off the vacuum lines.  Huzzah!


But - the actual extrication of the actuator was far more difficult.  It 
took some serious gyrations and pressure to get it out of the bracket and 
free the actuator rod from the bracket.  That being said, I got it out 
undamaged!


I plugged the vacuum lines and then taped the defrost door lever in the 
"closed" position, as it's quite unlikely I'll need defrost any time 
soon.


I have a new actuator on the way from AutohausAZ, who had the best price 
on this particular actuator (but not all.)  Hopefully, I'll be able to 
install the new actuator without too much effort or possible damage.


A separate thread on the hydrocarbon refrigerant later today.  I'm 
pulling a vacuum for several hours on the system to be sure it's as dry 
as possible.


Dan


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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m sure there’s no air in the system.  Recommended charge with the es-12a 
industrial is 14 ounces based on an R12 capacity of 2.5 pounds. That’s two cans 
plus a third of a third can.  That’s what I put in it based on weight.

Right now I’m seeing low side pressure in the 45 psi range and high pressure in 
the 225 psi range with an ambient of about 85F-90F and high humidity.  
According to their information I should be seeing lower pressures than one 
would expect with R134a or R12.

Tonight I took a drive and was seeing vent temperatures down to around 55F, but 
it was cooler outside since the sun was down, of course.

I’m wondering if this stuff needs to circulate around a bit before it really 
starts working?

I’ll leave the system charged and drive it tomorrow to see how it works.

Thanks!

Dan



> On Jun 25, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> A clogged expansion valve results in extra-low inlet pressures, as the
> thing tries to suck a vacuum.  Overcharged?  Air in it anyway?
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 


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[MBZ] 115 Mercedes Steering Wheel

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Not, etc.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: nore...@craigslist.org 
Sent: 25 June 2016 23:44
To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
Subject: Mercedes Steering Wheel


fred.s...@verizon.net forwarded you this from craigslist:


Mercedes Steering Wheel

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/pts/5642521770.html

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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

What would a stuck open expansion valve result in? I would assume low too high 
and high too low?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:15 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> A clogged expansion valve results in extra-low inlet pressures, as the
> thing tries to suck a vacuum.  Overcharged?  Air in it anyway?
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Obstructions to the gas flow show up as temperature drops.
>> 
>> Ideally, the expansion valve should be the only such obstruction.
>> 
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

A clogged expansion valve results in extra-low inlet pressures, as the
thing tries to suck a vacuum.  Overcharged?  Air in it anyway?

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Obstructions to the gas flow show up as temperature drops.
>
> Ideally, the expansion valve should be the only such obstruction.
>
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] In praise of the old DIN standard

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:48:49 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> One of the things I loved about all things German, (VW, BMW, MB, etc) 
> was that if you had an 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, 17mm and 19mm wrenches, a 
> set of Allen wrenches and a combo screwdriver, you could fix nearly 
> anything, and, except for 10mm, everything could be done with SAE 
> tools.  All things made before the EU, when the DIN was king, and the 
> Germans either wrote the ISO standard, or thumbed their noses at it.


DIN = Deutsches Institut für Normung e. V.
  (German Institute for Standardization)

---
http://www.din.de/en/about-standards/a-brief-introduction-to-standards

Who is DIN?

DIN is a privately organized non-profit provider of standardization
services with nearly 100 years' experience. More than 32,000 external
experts from industry, research, consumer protection and the public
sector come together at DIN to develop market-oriented standards and
specifications that promote global trade and innovations, assure
efficiency and quality, and help protect the environment and society as a
whole. DIN deals with subjects ranging from A as in Acoustics to Z as in
Zinc. A focus is also placed on trending topics such as Industry 4.0 and
smart cities. According to an agreement with the German Federal
Government, DIN is the acknowledged national standards body that
represents German interests in European and international standards work.
---

So how DIN as a German entity relates to your 18 mm nuts, I don't know.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[G Mann via Mercedes]

A properly fitted evaporative cooler needs to be hooked to a water supply
so it maintains a constant supply in the water pan.. otherwise, the water
pump will run dry and burn up... so, different than the humidifier in that
regard. Also.. the volume of water loss requires constant feed to the float
valve.

In my application at the Ranch, I run about 3 gallons per hour water
evaporation, which concentrates the mineral content in the water pan rather
quickly.. Experience has taught me to drain the pan every 4 hrs of
operation and the mineral build up on the cooling pads will be much less.
In my case.. I use a battery operated irrigation timer to "switch on the
water" at the drain port for a few minutes. the float valve then flushes
and refills the water pan.. and it's "good to go" again...

I give it a look over once a day, just to check condition of all the
working parts.. again.. it's not a "set it and forget it" system".


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On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> On June 25, 2016 at 5:59 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> If you are running the cooler all day.. drain the water pan every 4 hrs of
> run time, and let it refill with fresh water..
>
>
> Same goes for portable humidifiers in winter.
>
> I learned to NEVER add water, I dump and refill and the mineral
> accumulation is a lot less.
>
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 25, 2016 at 5:59 PM G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:If you are running the cooler all day.. drain the water pan every 4 hrs ofrun time, and let it refill with fresh water..Same goes for portable humidifiers in winter. I learned to NEVER add water, I dump and refill and the mineral accumulation is a lot less. Mitch.
 

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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I have a "swamp" system at the Ranch, which is on the desert, in Arizona.
The humidity here routinely runs in the 12% or lower range, until late July
through early September, when we have what's called the "Monsoon season"..
Humidity rises into the 40% range post cloud/ rain..

As long as the humidity is in the 12% and less range, I can achieve,
without to much difficulty, 40% temp splits with the Evaporate Cooler
system. Which yields vent exit air temps here in the 80 F range [outside
air temps of 120 F] ... Since the air is moist and cool, relative to OAT,
the comfort level is "workable"..

Trick is to keep the cooler pads and the cooler clean. As water evaporates
[what the cooler is doing when the pump runs and blower blows] it condenses
the minerals held in suspension in the water. If you have "hard water"
[high mineral content] the pads will start showing white scale accumulation
on surface of the pads.. You are over due to clean them.. the scale reduces
the absorption and evaporation of water, which directly impacts the
transfer of heat. CLEAN is good.. OFTEN.. an evap system is not a "set it
and forget it" system...

Clean the pads in a shallow flat pan, with a strong solution of vinegar..
insert pad.. let it set for 30 minutes [if it's a routine cleaning, not a
lot of deposit material], then flush it with clean water.

If you are running the cooler all day.. drain the water pan every 4 hrs of
run time, and let it refill with fresh water.. This reduces the mineral
load the accumulates from evaporation, and you are evaporating gallons of
water each day. If humidity is low and you are getting good temp splits.
[24 hr run here will use 50 gallons of water for cooling, 3,800 sq ft
building]

Next trick is the buildings air flow... You only get good heat transfer
when there is a balance of INTAKE air and EXIT air.. to have a cool room
you HAVE to open windows.. just enough.. to much.. no balance in / out ...
not enough... no balance in / out ... This concept of physics is one that
overwhelms most modern women and men... "But I set the thermostat and it's
not cold" mentality..

I set the window openings for max performance by using "flutter sticks",
which are pieces of lath with tissue streamers attached to them, setting
across the window openings... Turn on cooler, adjust window openings to
achieve maximum "flutter" of the tissue streamers. Sounds silly, but it
works.. Back that up with IR thermometer readings at each opening, compared
to OAT [outside air temp] and cooler exit air..
It take a bit of "fiddling" to get it "just right", but in my case.. off
the grid at the Ranch, 43 miles away for the closest power pole.. it
works.. I can run the cooler motor all day off what the solar system makes
for power.. and keep a cool house..


Humid Oklahoma . your mileage will vary.. Just how much, I have no
idea.. Could be humidity for you is already to high to effect good heat
transfer by further moisture being added.. Hope my experience shared will
be helpful.


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On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My cousin in Phoenix had a big swamp cooler on the roof of a big shed, it
> worked fairly well to make the temps in there tolerable (i.e., not a 350F
> oven) but there is about 2% humidity there so that was a big factor.
>
> --JC
>
>
> On 6/25/16 3:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about
>> noon-1pm then I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler.
>> Anybody used one and do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's
>> what we used to cool the house as we did not have ac.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Obstructions to the gas flow show up as temperature drops. Ideally, the expansion valve should be the only such obstruction. Mitch. 
 

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Re: [MBZ] In praise of the old DIN standard (Stupid 18mm)

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Harbor Fright is  100 mile trip.  no go.  I found an 18mm in a pass 
through set I had bought at HF, but still no dice,  I twisted the end on 
my good bondhus 5 mm allen about 60º trying to hold it.  I tried vice 
grips on the back and allen in combo too, but still no luck.  Had to put 
an extender on the handle of the pass through.  Had already beat the nut 
with the chisel on the air hammer.  No dice.   I finally got the lower 
bolt on the link off and took out the strut and link together.  I 
figgered worst case, I could go to flaps short one link and then buy and 
link and put it on.  After I got the new strut in, I took the air chisel 
and went after the not more, and beat it  with  a hammer and chisel 
while the compressor was regenerating.  Eventually the nut turned 
before  it was cut.  After turing it a couple turns with the air chisel, 
I could turn it with the wrench and allen + vice grips to counter the 
wrench.


Put it on the van with Never-Seez   The next time I will probably just 
cut it off with the cutoff wheel to start.


It is still stupid to make a 18mm nut when a 19 would do better.


Max Dillon via Mercedes 
June 25, 2016 at 1:34 PM
Go to Harbor Freight, get cheap 18 mm tool. Annoying, but best 
solution I can think of.




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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Is the heat exchanger nice and clean so ur actually gitting good air 
flow across it?

Dirty, clogged up?

--JC


On 6/25/16 5:33 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I know.

After letting the car sit for 30 minutes or so, I’m seeing what I would expect 
for static pressures.

Around 1800 RPM I’m seeing around 45 psi low side, 225 psi high side with 
around 60F at the vent.

Any other suggestions?

Dan



On Jun 25, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Expansion valve replacement is a whore of a job on the 126.

Sent from my iPhone



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--
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I know.

After letting the car sit for 30 minutes or so, I’m seeing what I would expect 
for static pressures.

Around 1800 RPM I’m seeing around 45 psi low side, 225 psi high side with 
around 60F at the vent.

Any other suggestions?

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Expansion valve replacement is a whore of a job on the 126.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Expansion valve replacement is a whore of a job on the 126.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 4:15 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I suspect expansion valve loss of full function.. either by partial
> blockage [system debris or pending failure].
> 
> The expansion valve controls.. well.. expansion... The conversion rate of
> liquid to gas, in simple application for AC systems.. See Boyle's law for
> further in depth details of how this makes transfer of accumulated heat
> energy happen, in theory.
> 
> If you are not getting a good 25 degree to 40 degree vent exit air temp
> split over ambient [outside air] temps, and all the components of the
> system are functioning as designed.. compressor clutch, compressor, cooling
> fan, interior cabin blower fans, blend valves, etc etc etc.. are working as
> designed, I would look to replacing the expansion valve. If there is a
> filter attached to the expansion valve, replace that also. [don't recall if
> there is on the MB system.. been to long].
> 
> Another check to make is the temp of the hoses going to / from the
> compressor and the condenser with your IR thermometer. One should be hot..
> one cold.. the differential will dictate how well the system is working
> also.
> 
> I would take a "Before" and "After" temp reading, with expansion valve
> replacement. Vent exit air temp, and hose temp.
> 
> 
> 
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I knew the system was tight, I was more concerned about getting any
>> moisture boiled out.
>> 
>> Nearly an hour with the vacuum on the system (pump off, valves closed, of
>> course) and no leak down.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
 On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Holy crap dude you went about that all backwards. You only vacuum for
>> about 5 minutes then close it off and stop and let it sit for a while and
>> see if it leaks down, then proceed to vacuum for an hour or so. It's a
>> waste of time to spend all that time doing the vacuum then checking for
>> leaks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is even better, Kaleb!

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

That 4spd I posted the other day was better than that and $500

--R


On 6/24/16 9:06 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

It’s already up on blocks for you!

http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/5642771133.html

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

De nada

--JC


On 6/25/16 2:44 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

My big peeve?

Saying “No problem” when someone thanks you. It implies that they might have 
otherwise somehow been imposing on you.

The proper response is “You’re welcome.”

Or am I just being too picky?

Dan graduate of a comportment program as a child


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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

My cousin in Phoenix had a big swamp cooler on the roof of a big shed, 
it worked fairly well to make the temps in there tolerable (i.e., not a 
350F oven) but there is about 2% humidity there so that was a big factor.


--JC


On 6/25/16 3:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about noon-1pm then 
I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler. Anybody used one and 
do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's what we used to cool the 
house as we did not have ac.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

What a bunch of loosers U R

--JC


On 6/25/16 2:44 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

My big peeve?

Saying “No problem” when someone thanks you. It implies that they might have 
otherwise somehow been imposing on you.

The proper response is “You’re welcome.”

Or am I just being too picky?

Dan graduate of a comportment program as a child



On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:

Equally aggravating are R (are) and K (OK)



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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I suspect expansion valve loss of full function.. either by partial
blockage [system debris or pending failure].

The expansion valve controls.. well.. expansion... The conversion rate of
liquid to gas, in simple application for AC systems.. See Boyle's law for
further in depth details of how this makes transfer of accumulated heat
energy happen, in theory.

If you are not getting a good 25 degree to 40 degree vent exit air temp
split over ambient [outside air] temps, and all the components of the
system are functioning as designed.. compressor clutch, compressor, cooling
fan, interior cabin blower fans, blend valves, etc etc etc.. are working as
designed, I would look to replacing the expansion valve. If there is a
filter attached to the expansion valve, replace that also. [don't recall if
there is on the MB system.. been to long].

Another check to make is the temp of the hoses going to / from the
compressor and the condenser with your IR thermometer. One should be hot..
one cold.. the differential will dictate how well the system is working
also.

I would take a "Before" and "After" temp reading, with expansion valve
replacement. Vent exit air temp, and hose temp.



Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I knew the system was tight, I was more concerned about getting any
> moisture boiled out.
>
> Nearly an hour with the vacuum on the system (pump off, valves closed, of
> course) and no leak down.
>
> Dan
>
>
> > On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Holy crap dude you went about that all backwards. You only vacuum for
> about 5 minutes then close it off and stop and let it sit for a while and
> see if it leaks down, then proceed to vacuum for an hour or so. It's a
> waste of time to spend all that time doing the vacuum then checking for
> leaks.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] AC Questions

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes.


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> So is the aux fan running?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, so I’ve charged the system with the proper amount of “industrial 
>> ES-12a”.  Ot cools, but even on the road the best vent temperature I can get 
>> is about 60F.  Come to a stop and idle and it pops up to 70F.
>> 
>> Pressures at 1500 rpm are around 40-45 PSI on the low side, 225 on the high 
>> side.
>> 
>> I’m reluctant to add more refrigerant due to the low side pressure being 
>> what it is, however, it’s clear I’m not getting enough heat transfer.
>> 
>> Suggestions?
>> 
>> At present I’m no better off than I was on R134a.
>> 
>> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] AC Questions

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

So is the aux fan running?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> OK, so I’ve charged the system with the proper amount of “industrial ES-12a”. 
>  Ot cools, but even on the road the best vent temperature I can get is about 
> 60F.  Come to a stop and idle and it pops up to 70F.
> 
> Pressures at 1500 rpm are around 40-45 PSI on the low side, 225 on the high 
> side.
> 
> I’m reluctant to add more refrigerant due to the low side pressure being what 
> it is, however, it’s clear I’m not getting enough heat transfer.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> At present I’m no better off than I was on R134a.
> 
> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I knew the system was tight, I was more concerned about getting any moisture 
boiled out.

Nearly an hour with the vacuum on the system (pump off, valves closed, of 
course) and no leak down.

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Holy crap dude you went about that all backwards. You only vacuum for about 5 
> minutes then close it off and stop and let it sit for a while and see if it 
> leaks down, then proceed to vacuum for an hour or so. It's a waste of time to 
> spend all that time doing the vacuum then checking for leaks. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Questions

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Also, static pressures are a little low, like in the high 70s when they should 
be in the mid to upper 80s.  It’s in the high 80s with really high humidity 
here.

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> OK, so I’ve charged the system with the proper amount of “industrial ES-12a”. 
>  Ot cools, but even on the road the best vent temperature I can get is about 
> 60F.  Come to a stop and idle and it pops up to 70F.
> 
> Pressures at 1500 rpm are around 40-45 PSI on the low side, 225 on the high 
> side.
> 
> I’m reluctant to add more refrigerant due to the low side pressure being what 
> it is, however, it’s clear I’m not getting enough heat transfer.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> At present I’m no better off than I was on R134a.
> 
> Dan
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[MBZ] AC Questions

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

OK, so I’ve charged the system with the proper amount of “industrial ES-12a”.  
Ot cools, but even on the road the best vent temperature I can get is about 
60F.  Come to a stop and idle and it pops up to 70F.

Pressures at 1500 rpm are around 40-45 PSI on the low side, 225 on the high 
side.

I’m reluctant to add more refrigerant due to the low side pressure being what 
it is, however, it’s clear I’m not getting enough heat transfer.

Suggestions?

At present I’m no better off than I was on R134a.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Just a big fan or three helps a lot, and won't rust everything - that's
what I use in the hangar. I searched for the most CFM for the least $ and
bought a couple. Of course, I don't remember where from . . .

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Well it's humid here but I figure it would be better than nothing. I see
> shops around here have those big roll around ones
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Me, too - Mama's.  She may have been an Eastern NC sharecropper housewife
and mother, with only a fifth grade, or so, education, but there were
certain things we were not allowed to say.  A few of 'em were:  "ain't,"
"ain't got no," "hain't," "git," "me and him" as a subject, and others.  On 
her required list were:  "Please," "Thank you," No, thank you," "Sir," 
"Ma'am," others.


One of the best and most important things we can teach our children and 
grandchildren it to speak and write well.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes List" 
Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know



My big peeve?

Saying “No problem” when someone thanks you. It implies that they might
have otherwise somehow been imposing on you.

The proper response is “You’re welcome.”

Or am I just being too picky?

Dan graduate of a comportment program as a child



On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
wrote:

Equally aggravating are R (are) and K (OK)




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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well it's humid here but I figure it would be better than nothing. I see shops 
around here have those big roll around ones 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:43 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, they work when it's dry, no they don't when its humid. Iron, steel,
> etc. that is in the blast will rust.
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about noon-1pm
>> then I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler. Anybody used
>> one and do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's what we used
>> to cool the house as we did not have ac.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Yes, they work when it's dry, no they don't when its humid. Iron, steel,
etc. that is in the blast will rust.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about noon-1pm
> then I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler. Anybody used
> one and do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's what we used
> to cool the house as we did not have ac.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Swamp cooler

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Lived in coupla houses with "swamp" coolers:  Roswell, NM, and George AFB, 
CA (Mojave Desert).  They work very well in hot,. dry climates.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 

To: ; 
Cc: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Swamp cooler


I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about noon-1pm 
then I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler. Anybody used 
one and do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's what we used 
to cool the house as we did not have ac.


Sent from my iPhone

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[MBZ] Swamp cooler

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I have plenty to do out in the shop but it's way too hot by about noon-1pm then 
I quit and come in. Thinking I should get a swamp cooler. Anybody used one and 
do they work? I remember back when I was a kid that's what we used to cool the 
house as we did not have ac.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Reminds me:  Eastern NC term for "backwards" is "bassackwards."  I had to 
be careful that Mama didn't hear me say it, though. ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question


Holy crap dude you went about that all backwards. You only vacuum for 
about 5 minutes then close it off and stop and let it sit for a while and 
see if it leaks down, then proceed to vacuum for an hour or so. It's a 
waste of time to spend all that time doing the vacuum then checking for 
leaks.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:


I’m pulling a vacuum on the car right now - it’s been almost an hour and 
a half with it solidly at or near 30” of vacuum so I’m not worried about 
leaks.  I’ll shut it off at the top of the hour, close the gauges off and 
let it site for 30 minutes to see if there’s any leak down before I start 
charging.


I’ll be charging by weight as well.  2.5 pounds of R12 =  14 ozs. of 
hydrocarbon refrigerant.  I’m not looking for ice cubes, just cold temps 
while at idle - I got cold temps with R134a above idle but things would 
warm up quick as soon as I stopped moving.


Dan



On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:


Simple physics!

I'm sure someone can explain the physics, but not Max.

I was also getting very strange gauge behavior when I filled my 124.193 
with hydrocarbon refrigerant.  That may be due to my cheap-o harbor 
freight gauges.  I focused on filling by weight.  I think the high 
pressure side was about 250 psig when I finished, ambient temps probably 
around 80.


After a week of use, I have to say I'm happy.  Performance is better 
than 134a, especially in stop and go traffic.  Won't freeze me out of 
the car, but it does stay comfortable.  We'll see how that holds up as 
we get into the really hot weather here in Chucktown.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300



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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Holy crap dude you went about that all backwards. You only vacuum for about 5 
minutes then close it off and stop and let it sit for a while and see if it 
leaks down, then proceed to vacuum for an hour or so. It's a waste of time to 
spend all that time doing the vacuum then checking for leaks. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m pulling a vacuum on the car right now - it’s been almost an hour and a 
> half with it solidly at or near 30” of vacuum so I’m not worried about leaks. 
>  I’ll shut it off at the top of the hour, close the gauges off and let it 
> site for 30 minutes to see if there’s any leak down before I start charging.
> 
> I’ll be charging by weight as well.  2.5 pounds of R12 =  14 ozs. of 
> hydrocarbon refrigerant.  I’m not looking for ice cubes, just cold temps 
> while at idle - I got cold temps with R134a above idle but things would warm 
> up quick as soon as I stopped moving.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Simple physics!  
>> 
>> I'm sure someone can explain the physics, but not Max.
>> 
>> I was also getting very strange gauge behavior when I filled my 124.193 with 
>> hydrocarbon refrigerant.  That may be due to my cheap-o harbor freight 
>> gauges.  I focused on filling by weight.  I think the high pressure side was 
>> about 250 psig when I finished, ambient temps probably around 80.
>> 
>> After a week of use, I have to say I'm happy.  Performance is better than 
>> 134a, especially in stop and go traffic.  Won't freeze me out of the car, 
>> but it does stay comfortable.  We'll see how that holds up as we get into 
>> the really hot weather here in Chucktown.
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Really?  I just thought I had higher standards, that’s all.  

Just the way I was brought up.  Same as I did with my kids.

Say what you want, but someone with good solid writing/speaking skills and 
especially good vocabulary will get a lot farther in life than the average 
person.  It’s all a matter of impression - first ones, especially.

Dan when in doubt, pinkies out



> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> You are an elitist.  Not that there's anything wrong with that...
> 


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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Low side pressure is determined by evaporator temperature and  
expansion valve opening -- it's possible you have cooler (and hence  
denser) high side liquid with the fans on, which would result  in more  
gas by weight for a given expansion valve opening.  More gas, same  
temp has higher pressure.


AC is goofy stuff, and not always completely "intuitive"  -- nothing  
else is, either, but AC is up there on the "why does that happen" scale.


200 at 80F ambient without fans is a bit low, I'd want 250, 275 or a  
bit more a 90F, otherwise you risk sending foam to the expansion valve  
at high demand (circulation rate of refrigerant) which can cause  
evaporator ice-up as the expansion valve isn't designed to give  
correct flow with foam.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You are an elitist.  Not that there's anything wrong with that...

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My big peeve?
>
> Saying “No problem” when someone thanks you. It implies that they might
> have otherwise somehow been imposing on you.
>
> The proper response is “You’re welcome.”
>
> Or am I just being too picky?
>
> Dan graduate of a comportment program as a child
>
>
> > On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > Equally aggravating are R (are) and K (OK)
> >
>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m pulling a vacuum on the car right now - it’s been almost an hour and a half 
with it solidly at or near 30” of vacuum so I’m not worried about leaks.  I’ll 
shut it off at the top of the hour, close the gauges off and let it site for 30 
minutes to see if there’s any leak down before I start charging.

I’ll be charging by weight as well.  2.5 pounds of R12 =  14 ozs. of 
hydrocarbon refrigerant.  I’m not looking for ice cubes, just cold temps while 
at idle - I got cold temps with R134a above idle but things would warm up quick 
as soon as I stopped moving.

Dan



> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Simple physics!  
> 
> I'm sure someone can explain the physics, but not Max.
> 
> I was also getting very strange gauge behavior when I filled my 124.193 with 
> hydrocarbon refrigerant.  That may be due to my cheap-o harbor freight 
> gauges.  I focused on filling by weight.  I think the high pressure side was 
> about 250 psig when I finished, ambient temps probably around 80.
> 
> After a week of use, I have to say I'm happy.  Performance is better than 
> 134a, especially in stop and go traffic.  Won't freeze me out of the car, but 
> it does stay comfortable.  We'll see how that holds up as we get into the 
> really hot weather here in Chucktown.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300


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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Simple physics!  

I'm sure someone can explain the physics, but not Max.

I was also getting very strange gauge behavior when I filled my 124.193 with 
hydrocarbon refrigerant.  That may be due to my cheap-o harbor freight gauges.  
I focused on filling by weight.  I think the high pressure side was about 250 
psig when I finished, ambient temps probably around 80.

After a week of use, I have to say I'm happy.  Performance is better than 134a, 
especially in stop and go traffic.  Won't freeze me out of the car, but it does 
stay comfortable.  We'll see how that holds up as we get into the really hot 
weather here in Chucktown.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 25, 2016 1:48:20 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I fully understand the fundamentals of an AC system, however, I noticed
>something today while working with my car that has me scratching my
>head.  Maybe it’s obvious and I’m just missing something but I figured
>I would toss it out here and see what the collective AC wisdom says:
>
>**System is running at idle rpm.**
>
>Pressures are around 50 psi low side, near 200 high side.  If I turn on
>the auxiliary fans, the low side pressure goes up.  Why is this?
>
>I would think they would stay the same or possibly drop, as I would
>expect this causes the high pressure gas to condense more rapidly,
>turing it back into a liquid.  As for the state change, why would that
>cause the *low* side pressure to increase?
>
>
>
>Dan
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

My big peeve?

Saying “No problem” when someone thanks you. It implies that they might have 
otherwise somehow been imposing on you.

The proper response is “You’re welcome.”

Or am I just being too picky?

Dan graduate of a comportment program as a child


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> Equally aggravating are R (are) and K (OK)
> 


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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Equally aggravating are R (are) and K (OK)

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes, this substitution of letters for complete words makes me crazy.  I
> understand why it was done at one time with text messages being limited to
> 140 characters.
>
> While I’m sure it’s not always the case, it implies the user has a limited
> grasp of proper spelling (to me.)
>
> Dan
>
>
> > On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am so sick of "ur" and "u" I could barf.
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:44 PM, WILTON via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> 'Coulda put my 300D drive train in that!
> >>
> >> Wilt
> >>
> >> - Original Message - From: "Rick Knoble via Mercedes" <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> To: 
> >> Cc: "Rick Knoble" 
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 11:56 AM
> >> Subject: [MBZ] I Didn't Know
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You could get cow-catchers for these...
> >>>
> >>> https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html
> >>>
> >>> Rick
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes, this substitution of letters for complete words makes me crazy.  I 
understand why it was done at one time with text messages being limited to 140 
characters.

While I’m sure it’s not always the case, it implies the user has a limited 
grasp of proper spelling (to me.)

Dan


> On Jun 25, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am so sick of "ur" and "u" I could barf.
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:44 PM, WILTON via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> 'Coulda put my 300D drive train in that!
>> 
>> Wilt
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Rick Knoble via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: 
>> Cc: "Rick Knoble" 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 11:56 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] I Didn't Know
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> You could get cow-catchers for these...
>>> 
>>> https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] In praise of the old DIN standard

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Go to Harbor Freight, get cheap 18 mm tool.  Annoying, but best solution I can 
think of.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Add Blockers

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry,

I installed an ad block extension to Firefox on all my devices.  The annoying 
videos with audio that would auto start were driving me nuts, along with some 
pop-under ads.  Additionally, pages load slower (all those ads load first, 
actual content I'm interested in would load last) and more data was loaded 
(date now = $, using a low-cost MVNO for family cell service).  Ad blocking 
just makes sense.

However, most websites need that ad revenue, so if the website and the ad 
blocker app developers can agree to filter out those videos and reduce the data 
load / page load time, I'll be happy with the compromise.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 25, 2016 7:14:00 AM EDT, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>AdBlock Plus mobile browser could devastate publishers
>
>About 215 million people will use ad block services on their computers
>by June, company estimates
>
>Ad blocking extensions on mobile devices could force online publishers
>to fundamentally change their business models as ad revenue dries up.
>(Bloomua/Shutterstock)
>
>Browser plugin clicks on every ad to fight data tracking
>If you hate online ads, just use the age-old tactic of obfuscation
>External Links
>
>The Financial Times: Mobile operators plan to block online advertising
>Destructoid blog post
>ArsTechnica blog post
>Ad Block Plus: Acceptable ads
>
>
>It's an online game few enjoy playing — suddenly hearing audio while
>surfing the web and hunting down which tab holds the intrusive
>advertisement.
>
>An advertising-free internet may seem utopian, but some people are
>already living that dream thanks to popular browser extensions that
>block advertisements on computers. Two of the most popular, Adblock
>Plus and AdBlock, have more than 340 million downloads.
>
>AdNauseam fights online ads by clicking on every one
>Now these companies are moving into the mobile market. Within 24 hours
>of Adblock Plus launching an ad-free browser for Android devices last
>Wednesday, it logged more than 200,000 downloads.
>
>'You should have sovereignty over your screen.'
>— Ben Williams, Eyeo spokesman
>
>​It took years for desktop ad blocking to become popular, and rapid
>mobile growth could devastate websites dependent on ad revenue. Experts
>say there's a simple solution, however: stop making annoying ads and
>people won't need ad blockers.
>
>"We're not against advertising," says Ben Williams, communications and
>operations director for Eyeo, which operates Adblock Plus. "We think
>that advertising can be better."
>
>"We really believe that it's a user-determined internet," says
>Williams. "You should have sovereignty over your screen."
>
>Adblock Plus blocks "basically anything under the sun," he says. That
>includes pop-ups, video, Facebook and Twitter ads.
>
>This image posted on the Adblock Plus website shows what a user's
>experience is viewing Facebook with and without the
>advertisement-blocking browser extension. (Adblock Plus)
>
>About 215 million people worldwide will be using some type of ad
>blocker on their computers by June, estimates PageFair, a company that
>tracks the ad block industry's growth for publishers. That is 50 per
>cent more than the same time last year, says Sean Blanchfield, who
>co-founded the company in 2012.
>
>Those estimates don't include mobile users, who are starting to block
>ads on their smartphones and tablets in large numbers.
>
>Mobile ad blocking is growing rapidly in India and China partly thanks
>to two mobile browsers, UC browser and Maxthon, says Blanchfield, which
>each come equipped with an ad block extension. Together, they claim to
>have more than 600 million users.
>
>A European wireless carrier plans to turn on blocking software that
>would prevent most ads from displaying for all of its network users
>before 2016, the Financial Times reported. Ad blocking company Shine
>confirmed to the Financial Times that it was working with multiple
>carriers.
>
>Adblock Plus hopes its new ad-free browser for Android is a good start
>to strengthening mobile ad blocking, says spokesman Williams. It plans
>to release an iOS equivalent in a few months.
>
>"If [mobile ad-blocking] technology got popular, that would be
>devastating for publishers," Blanchfield says.
>
>Many websites that publish content rely on advertising revenue. They
>get paid based on the number of site visitors who see or click on ads.
>
>'An ad block user is trying to solve a real problem and is accidentally
>hurting all the websites they love the most.'
>— Sean Blanchfield, co-founder of PageFair
>
>For most sites, between 10 and 50 per cent of their visitors use an ad
>blocker, Blanchfield says. That means a fraction of the audience the
>company could be profiting from "has simply disappeared."
>
>Publishers targeting a younger demographic are disproportionately
>affected, he says, because 18-to-29-year-olds are most likely to
>install the software.
>
>Before ad blockers became popular, some 

Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I am so sick of "ur" and "u" I could barf.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:44 PM, WILTON via Mercedes 
wrote:

> 'Coulda put my 300D drive train in that!
>
> Wilt
>
> - Original Message - From: "Rick Knoble via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: 
> Cc: "Rick Knoble" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 11:56 AM
> Subject: [MBZ] I Didn't Know
>
>
>
> You could get cow-catchers for these...
>>
>> https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes June 25, 2016 at 
12:48 PM
I fully understand the fundamentals of an AC system, however, I 
noticed something today while working with my car that has me 
scratching my head. Maybe it’s obvious and I’m just missing something 
but I figured I would toss it out here and see what the collective AC 
wisdom says:


**System is running at idle rpm.**

Pressures are around 50 psi low side, near 200 high side. If I turn on 
the auxiliary fans, the low side pressure goes up. Why is this?


I would think they would stay the same or possibly drop, as I would 
expect this causes the high pressure gas to condense more rapidly, 
turing it back into a liquid. As for the state change, why would that 
cause the *low* side pressure to increase?




Dan
Stuff like that is why I generally give up and pay someone to charge/fix 
the AC after I change the physical components.

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Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Waytago!  It is especially nice when you figure out a way to beat "the 
Book!"  especially by 100 hours!



WILTON via Mercedes 
June 25, 2016 at 12:40 PM
'Nother ATTABOY!  Make that a double ATTABOY for extraordinary 
achievement! I do love and enjoy innovation!


Wilt


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[MBZ] In praise of the old DIN standard

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

One of the things I loved about all things German, (VW, BMW, MB, etc) 
was that if you had an 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, 17mm and 19mm wrenches, a 
set of Allen wrenches and a combo screwdriver, you could fix nearly 
anything, and, except for 10mm, everything could be done with SAE 
tools.  All things made before the EU, when the DIN was king, and the 
Germans either wrote the ISO standard, or thumbed their noses at it.


Things japanese, and later Merkun, used oddball stuff, like 15mm bolt 
heads.  18mm, which is not 17mm/11/16 not 19mm/3/4.  If I ever had a 
wrench set with a 18mm, I probably threw out the 18mm as some oddball 
thing made because the designer never worked on stuff.


I am changing struts on the Merkun Dogde van.  The link to the torsion 
bar appears to have 18mm nuts, and no place on the back of the ball to 
hold the ball.  Rather, they have a 5mm allen socket on the end of the 
ball, which mean you can't use a socket on the 18mm.  I have a 19mm 
impact socket that is 6 point.  I have a 19 mm combo that is 12 point.  
On the first side, I loosened it with the impact, then worked the nut 
off with the 19mm.  For the second side, the combination wrench slips 
and rounds off the corners.  Now I am screwed.  I Need to reuse the nut, 
cause I have no way to get a replacement and who knows what size/pitch 
it is, so cutting/cracking is out.  I need a 18mm 6 point box or combo 
wrench.  I've never heard of such a thing.


I suppose if you work on rice rockets, you probably have this stuff.  
The 2¢ per hundred nuts they "save" by using this cheep chinee nut is 
more than offset when some poor schlub has to take the thing off.


LONG LIVE DIN!  ISO sucks when it comes to bolt standards.


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[MBZ] AC Pressure Question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I fully understand the fundamentals of an AC system, however, I noticed 
something today while working with my car that has me scratching my head.  
Maybe it’s obvious and I’m just missing something but I figured I would toss it 
out here and see what the collective AC wisdom says:

**System is running at idle rpm.**

Pressures are around 50 psi low side, near 200 high side.  If I turn on the 
auxiliary fans, the low side pressure goes up.  Why is this?

I would think they would stay the same or possibly drop, as I would expect this 
causes the high pressure gas to condense more rapidly, turing it back into a 
liquid.  As for the state change, why would that cause the *low* side pressure 
to increase?



Dan
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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Coulda put my 300D drive train in that!

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Knoble via Mercedes" 

To: 
Cc: "Rick Knoble" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: [MBZ] I Didn't Know



You could get cow-catchers for these...

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html

Rick

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Re: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Nother ATTABOY!  Make that a double ATTABOY for extraordinary achievement! 
I do love and enjoy innovation!


Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes List" 
Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:39 AM
Subject: [MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R


Mine is leaking, causing all my nice cold air to go to the windshield. 
Not typically a big deal, if you can get past the initial lack of a cold 
air blast from the vents you normally get upon starting up the car. 
However, the leak is also causing the system to act weird since vacuum is 
being diverted from other parts of the system along with fogging up my 
windshield during early morning drives, too.


Everything I have read in the various forums would indicate that you have 
to remove the dash to get to this actuator due to its location, high and 
to the right of the ACC system in the console.


I'm in the process of preparing the system for hydrocarbon refrigerant 
today, so while I was sitting in the cabin and pondering the hassle of 
removing the dash at some time in the future, I realized that this 
actuator is to the immediate left of the glovebox.


Since removal of the glovebox liner is a simple and quick operation, I did 
so.


Imagine my amazement when I pulled back some of the ever present sound 
insulation that literally envelopes everything under the dash I could see 
the defrost actuator and its lever!


I was able to unhook the lever, rotate the actuator to unlock it from the 
bracket, and pull off the vacuum lines.  Huzzah!


But - the actual extrication of the actuator was far more difficult.  It 
took some serious gyrations and pressure to get it out of the bracket and 
free the actuator rod from the bracket.  That being said, I got it out 
undamaged!


I plugged the vacuum lines and then taped the defrost door lever in the 
"closed" position, as it's quite unlikely I'll need defrost any time soon.


I have a new actuator on the way from AutohausAZ, who had the best price 
on this particular actuator (but not all.)  Hopefully, I'll be able to 
install the new actuator without too much effort or possible damage.


A separate thread on the hydrocarbon refrigerant later today.  I'm pulling 
a vacuum for several hours on the system to be sure it's as dry as 
possible.


Dan


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Re: [MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

It is particularly ugly with the black plastic and wheels.


Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
June 25, 2016 at 10:56 AM
You could get cow-catchers for these...

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html

Rick

_


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[MBZ] I Didn't Know

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

You could get cow-catchers for these...

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/5652921885.html

Rick

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[MBZ] AC Defrost Actuator R

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Mine is leaking, causing all my nice cold air to go to the windshield.  Not 
typically a big deal, if you can get past the initial lack of a cold air blast 
from the vents you normally get upon starting up the car.  However, the leak is 
also causing the system to act weird since vacuum is being diverted from other 
parts of the system along with fogging up my windshield during early morning 
drives, too.

Everything I have read in the various forums would indicate that you have to 
remove the dash to get to this actuator due to its location, high and to the 
right of the ACC system in the console.

I'm in the process of preparing the system for hydrocarbon refrigerant today, 
so while I was sitting in the cabin and pondering the hassle of removing the 
dash at some time in the future, I realized that this actuator is to the 
immediate left of the glovebox.

Since removal of the glovebox liner is a simple and quick operation, I did so.

Imagine my amazement when I pulled back some of the ever present sound 
insulation that literally envelopes everything under the dash I could see the 
defrost actuator and its lever!

I was able to unhook the lever, rotate the actuator to unlock it from the 
bracket, and pull off the vacuum lines.  Huzzah!

But - the actual extrication of the actuator was far more difficult.  It took 
some serious gyrations and pressure to get it out of the bracket and free the 
actuator rod from the bracket.  That being said, I got it out undamaged!

I plugged the vacuum lines and then taped the defrost door lever in the 
"closed" position, as it's quite unlikely I'll need defrost any time soon.

I have a new actuator on the way from AutohausAZ, who had the best price on 
this particular actuator (but not all.)  Hopefully, I'll be able to install the 
new actuator without too much effort or possible damage.

A separate thread on the hydrocarbon refrigerant later today.  I'm pulling a 
vacuum for several hours on the system to be sure it's as dry as possible.

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] 240d

[Jon Agne via Mercedes]

I agree, but my ’67 Beetle is worth about 3 pretty nice 240D’s.  Different 
animals completely.  I love them both.

Jon


> On Jun 24, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't  see a VW kubelwagen  as,a substitute for a 240D. They are cool
> but not ...
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> 1982 300CD
> 1990 300D
> Wickford RI
> On Jun 24, 2016 1:06 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
>> Investigate a VW Thing. In decent condition they're selling for 2-3x the
>> original purchase price.Actually price out a '60s Camaro in drivable
>> shape...
>> -Curt
>> 
>>  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Randy Bennell 
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 12:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240d
>> 
>> On 23/06/2016 4:54 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Why are people wanting stupid money for their 240d?
>>> 
>>> 
>> Have you looked at the asking prices for 40 and 50 year old American cars?
>> The Mercedes seem cheap by comparison.
>> 
>> RB
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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[MBZ] OT: Add Blockers

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

AdBlock Plus mobile browser could devastate publishers

About 215 million people will use ad block services on their computers by June, 
company estimates

Ad blocking extensions on mobile devices could force online publishers to 
fundamentally change their business models as ad revenue dries up. 
(Bloomua/Shutterstock)

Browser plugin clicks on every ad to fight data tracking
If you hate online ads, just use the age-old tactic of obfuscation
External Links

The Financial Times: Mobile operators plan to block online advertising
Destructoid blog post
ArsTechnica blog post
Ad Block Plus: Acceptable ads


It's an online game few enjoy playing — suddenly hearing audio while surfing 
the web and hunting down which tab holds the intrusive advertisement.

An advertising-free internet may seem utopian, but some people are already 
living that dream thanks to popular browser extensions that block 
advertisements on computers. Two of the most popular, Adblock Plus and AdBlock, 
have more than 340 million downloads.

AdNauseam fights online ads by clicking on every one
Now these companies are moving into the mobile market. Within 24 hours of 
Adblock Plus launching an ad-free browser for Android devices last Wednesday, 
it logged more than 200,000 downloads.

'You should have sovereignty over your screen.'
— Ben Williams, Eyeo spokesman

​It took years for desktop ad blocking to become popular, and rapid mobile 
growth could devastate websites dependent on ad revenue. Experts say there's a 
simple solution, however: stop making annoying ads and people won't need ad 
blockers.

"We're not against advertising," says Ben Williams, communications and 
operations director for Eyeo, which operates Adblock Plus. "We think that 
advertising can be better."

"We really believe that it's a user-determined internet," says Williams. "You 
should have sovereignty over your screen."

Adblock Plus blocks "basically anything under the sun," he says. That includes 
pop-ups, video, Facebook and Twitter ads.

This image posted on the Adblock Plus website shows what a user's experience is 
viewing Facebook with and without the advertisement-blocking browser extension. 
(Adblock Plus)

About 215 million people worldwide will be using some type of ad blocker on 
their computers by June, estimates PageFair, a company that tracks the ad block 
industry's growth for publishers. That is 50 per cent more than the same time 
last year, says Sean Blanchfield, who co-founded the company in 2012.

Those estimates don't include mobile users, who are starting to block ads on 
their smartphones and tablets in large numbers.

Mobile ad blocking is growing rapidly in India and China partly thanks to two 
mobile browsers, UC browser and Maxthon, says Blanchfield, which each come 
equipped with an ad block extension. Together, they claim to have more than 600 
million users.

A European wireless carrier plans to turn on blocking software that would 
prevent most ads from displaying for all of its network users before 2016, the 
Financial Times reported. Ad blocking company Shine confirmed to the Financial 
Times that it was working with multiple carriers.

Adblock Plus hopes its new ad-free browser for Android is a good start to 
strengthening mobile ad blocking, says spokesman Williams. It plans to release 
an iOS equivalent in a few months.

"If [mobile ad-blocking] technology got popular, that would be devastating for 
publishers," Blanchfield says.

Many websites that publish content rely on advertising revenue. They get paid 
based on the number of site visitors who see or click on ads.

'An ad block user is trying to solve a real problem and is accidentally hurting 
all the websites they love the most.'
— Sean Blanchfield, co-founder of PageFair

For most sites, between 10 and 50 per cent of their visitors use an ad blocker, 
Blanchfield says. That means a fraction of the audience the company could be 
profiting from "has simply disappeared."

Publishers targeting a younger demographic are disproportionately affected, he 
says, because 18-to-29-year-olds are most likely to install the software.

Before ad blockers became popular, some companies could be making enough money 
to pay their staff, he explains. Now, they're going out of business because 
their revenues have been slashed.

Two years ago, Blanchfield's company helped Destructoid, a games blog, discover 
about 43 per cent of its visitors were blocking ads. The company appealed to 
its audience to stop. It later created an ad-free membership option at the cost 
of $2.99/month to avoid having to downsize its staff.

Some companies have reacted more aggressively, disabling content when they 
detect a user with an ad block extension.

CBS, for example, won't show video to visitors who attempt to bypass its 
commercials. Ad Block Plus has been retaliating by creating custom scripts to 
help people evade CBS's detection system.

In 2010, Technology site ArsTechnica experimented by disabling all