Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I change every 5k. Yeah, I know, I know. Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice a year for each car if that. Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a good interval any way. You talking about freezing weather, short trips that don't get the oil hot enough to force out the H2O, dusty dirt roads, etc? I suppose FL humidity combined with trip distances under 2 miles could be hard on the oil, but other than that, it should be far kinder to the oil than, say, Wisconsin. Current M1 might not hold up under heat as well as 1970's near-pure PAO M1, but nobody really needs 400°F+ heat resistance for their S500's oil. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I'm gonna call shenanigans. Nobody has ever been able to prove that anything has changed with M1. The samples I took last year look just like the ones I took in 2006 and say the oil is good to at least 10k in my 190D. The talk I heard was shortly after the Castrol Syntec legal actions in the 1990s. Once Castrol/Quaker State got the FTC to back off on requiring them to actually put synthesized molecules in the bottles labeled 'synthetic', then everybody started copying their business model. The funny thing was that in 1992, black bottle Syntec was marketed as a premium product, sold for $5 a quart when M1 was $4 a quart and it was somewhat common to see M1 on sale for $2.99. I got Syntec for less than M1 after rebate in 1992 or 1993, found that me car suddenly 'used' oil with the Syntec in the sump. Had to add a quart after 2000 miles or so. Took out the 5w50 Castrol, put in 5W30 M1, and consumption went back to 1/2 qt in 7500 miles. At the time I wondered if the Syntec cooked down or evaporated, and I never used it again. With the FTC action a few years later, I was convinced that heat caused a reduction in volume of Syntec that didn't happen with M1. When I look back on that $0.999 premium gas and $3.99 Mobil One, I realize what a bargain it would be to get the same quality M1 today for $23 per 5 quarts when premium gas is $3.75. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
OK Don via Mercedes wrote: All of my (previous) MB Diesels with at or over 200,000 miles were sampled, and determined that at 15,000 mile change intervals they could go another 3-5k miles due to soot level. All other elements were in tolerance as well. Bear in mind that they leaked enough oil that there were several quarts added between changes. The plus side was that my driveway was always nice and black and shed water like a duck's back. I'd be leery of running a 190D or 124 diesel past 10k without changing the filter. I'm probably being conservative, but I'd feel uncomfortable taking a 617 past 5k or 7k on one oil filter. (I might leave the oil in and run an analysis, but if the analysis came back good I'd keep the oil and swap the filter) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Analysis don't lie. The weak point on 61x is the soot levels get high. I never took my 240D past 8,000 miles. -Curt From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: OK Don okd...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World OK Don via Mercedes wrote: All of my (previous) MB Diesels with at or over 200,000 miles were sampled, and determined that at 15,000 mile change intervals they could go another 3-5k miles due to soot level. All other elements were in tolerance as well. Bear in mind that they leaked enough oil that there were several quarts added between changes. The plus side was that my driveway was always nice and black and shed water like a duck's back. I'd be leery of running a 190D or 124 diesel past 10k without changing the filter. I'm probably being conservative, but I'd feel uncomfortable taking a 617 past 5k or 7k on one oil filter. (I might leave the oil in and run an analysis, but if the analysis came back good I'd keep the oil and swap the filter) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Just bought 3 jugs of 15w50 @ $22.66 each at local evil W. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
[MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3 base stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go extended oil changes with m1 anymore Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
I change every 5k. Yeah, I know, I know. Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice a year for each car if that. Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a good interval any way. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
How about the European formula? Isn't that still full synthetic? Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:41 PM To: Curt Raymond; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3 base stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go extended oil changes with m1 anymore Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/mo tor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult= true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Have you done any analysis? If you could go 10k that'd be once a year. The cheap insurance argument is BS, underusing your oil means its actually more abrasive, theres loads of info out there suggesting that oil wears in and is actually more protective after its been used some. Larry gets $60 for 3 test kits which should be plenty to work you up to 10k changes (ie pull a sample at 5k, 7500 and 10k). I'm debating taking the Jetta up to 15k changes. VW currently recommends 10k in the US but 30k (!) in Europe. The reason for the short changes here is because they figure nobody reads the manual anyway... -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I change every 5k. Yeah, I know, I know. Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice a year for each car if that. Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a good interval any way. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
I'm gonna call shenanigans. Nobody has ever been able to prove that anything has changed with M1. The samples I took last year look just like the ones I took in 2006 and say the oil is good to at least 10k in my 190D. Loads of people are running extended changes with M1, you want to spend a whole bunch of time changing oil be my guest but I prefer to drive the thing... -Curt From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World Did you know that stuff is not really synthetic anymore, it's just group 3 base stock. Better off using delvac 1 Dino because you should not go extended oil changes with m1 anymore Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that. If the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by then it's not going to. For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons. Almost every one of them was changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the engine. In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation. Everyone else does it every two years or so. Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and expense. I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue on. And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so. I'm just more comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate. Dan On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Have you done any analysis? If you could go 10k that'd be once a year. The cheap insurance argument is BS, underusing your oil means its actually more abrasive, theres loads of info out there suggesting that oil wears in and is actually more protective after its been used some. Larry gets $60 for 3 test kits which should be plenty to work you up to 10k changes (ie pull a sample at 5k, 7500 and 10k). I'm debating taking the Jetta up to 15k changes. VW currently recommends 10k in the US but 30k (!) in Europe. The reason for the short changes here is because they figure nobody reads the manual anyway... -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I change every 5k. Yeah, I know, I know. Cheap insurance and we're typically talking about twice a year for each car if that. Since the climate down here is nasty a good part of the year, I'm sure the oil takes a beating as it is. I'm sure I could go longer, but every six months is a good interval any way. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: How often are you changing? I'll probably change the Jetta at the end of next week which will be right around 250,000 miles with maybe 10k OCI. I should probably take a sample and see how things are inside. The 190D gets 10k changes, the Ranger 8k because it does mostly short trips. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I have struggled with hit or miss stock on the 15W-50 around here. I have gotten into the habit of checking the two Supercenters in the area online about once a week, and when they have it I buy a couple of jugs. With three MBs running the stuff I can't afford to run out. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Says out of stock online About what I'm paying for Car Quest full synthetic 5w40 which carries the VW spec the Jetta wants. I've more or less standardized on that for most everything although the 190D is still running M1 since I had a gallon at its last change interval. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World It's the best oil for your Mercedes http://www.walmart.com/browse/motor-oil,-transmission-fluid-car-lubricant/motor-oil/mobil-1/91083_1104294_1072084/YnJhbmQ6TW9iiaWwgMQieie?_refineresult=true --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive like 4x as much as you do. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that. If the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by then it's not going to. For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons. Almost every one of them was changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the engine. In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation. Everyone else does it every two years or so. Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and expense. I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue on. And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so. I'm just more comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the duration that the oil is viable. You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put the tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and then suck up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the paperwork, put the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in the mail. Later he emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. Couldn't possibly be easier unless somebody did it for you. I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil being more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it again I'll let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres quite the rift. Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away from the 3,000 mile oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people back to it. The later are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing because of infrequent oil changes. What they aren't saying is that extended OCI on conventional oils or cars that require synthetic is probably they cause... -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that. If the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by then it's not going to. For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons. Almost every one of them was changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the engine. In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation. Everyone else does it every two years or so. Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and expense. I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue on. And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so. I'm just more comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small. It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase. Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience that very few of their standby power end users do it. The expense is often seen as something of an extravagance, and since the typical life of these units far exceeds their service life, most customers forego sampling. Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs in place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost. It's the ones who have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense. Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked up by the service provider. Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil sample costs them. I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive like 4x as much as you do. My cars perform, and perform well. If I found that my cam bearings were wearing, for example, I would dump the car. It's not that I don't care, as that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations, and that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously. With that in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long or longer than MB would predict. If fluid sampling was relevant or added value under normal operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it necessary, nor does any other car manufacturer. Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all. Dan From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that. If the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by then it's not going to. For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons. Almost every one of them was changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the engine. In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation. Everyone else does it every two years or so. Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and expense. I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue on. And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so. I'm just more comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think is appropriate. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Not sure I understand. Every industrial engine sampling program I ever ran was sampled on a regular schedule. I understand the baseline concept, but in the programs I worked with we would sample several times a year to determine the oil condition to determine when it was exhausted and should be changed. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: You know you don't continue with the samples right? You get a good baseline and then continue with your OCI... Plus this gives you a baseline so you know whats inside your engine... -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I just did the math on this and it doesn't make sense. Here's what I'm thinking: 7.5 quarts of oil = $34.50 Oil filter = $10.00 Oil change total = $44.50 Twice a year = $89.00 Oil change = $44.50 Oil samples = $60.00 Once a year oil change + samples = $104.50 I could dink around with the frequencies of samplings and changes, but let's say you do it over a year as shown above. You're spending more than two oil changes. Push it out to 18 months and the difference is marginal at best. The numbers just don't add up or make sense to me. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the duration that the oil is viable. You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put the tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and then suck up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the paperwork, put the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in the mail. Later he emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. Couldn't possibly be easier unless somebody did it for you. I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil being more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it again I'll let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres quite the rift. Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away from the 3,000 mile oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people back to it. The later are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing because of infrequent oil changes. What they aren't saying is that extended OCI on conventional oils or cars that require synthetic is probably they cause... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
My experience with Caterpillar is limited to earthmovers where everybody does the samples. They sample hydraulic fluid too, a breakdown at a job site is way more expensive than pulling samples. I was under the impression over the road truckers were doing it too, another case where a breakdown simply isn't worth it. I'm a little surprised there aren't systems to polish the oil or heat the condensation out of it. Seems like a little heat would be big savings if we were talking about that substantial an amount of oil. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small. It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase. Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience that very few of their standby power end users do it. The expense is often seen as something of an extravagance, and since the typical life of these units far exceeds their service life, most customers forego sampling. Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs in place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost. It's the ones who have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense. Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked up by the service provider. Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil sample costs them. I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive like 4x as much as you do. My cars perform, and perform well. If I found that my cam bearings were wearing, for example, I would dump the car. It's not that I don't care, as that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations, and that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously. With that in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long or longer than MB would predict. If fluid sampling was relevant or added value under normal operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it necessary, nor does any other car manufacturer. Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
The earthmoving equipment side of Cat is a totally different animal compared to their Power Systems business. The earthmoving guys have totally brainwashed the customers that the only service they can use is Cat, and to do anything that isn't recommended by the factory is heresy and can result in horrible, horrible things. It's actually a great thing for them, since they make boatloads of money off of this approach. With the exception of the prime power side, the standby generator community for the most part sees through a lot of this and as a result won't or doesn't follow a lot of their recommendations. Especially because there are plenty of competitors out there who can do the exact same thing for less, usually a lot less. Here's an example: Got a call one day from FedEx. They had a 300kW Cat generator at one of their facilities. The local Cat distributor had been maintaining it. It needed a cooling system flush and refill along with a set of batteries. We're talking about two 8D batteries and about 10 gallons of coolant. One of my guys could do the work in about two hours, three if they took their time. Caterpillar wanted $1800 to swap the batteries alone. We did the whole job for less than that and made a very nice profit. Nothing special here, we used proper industrial grade batteries and coolant on the Cat approved fluids list. Needless to say that we signed a nice annual maintenance agreement with them shortly after the work was completed. The local Cat distributor was notorious for this sort of stuff, and their approach was no different than the others - if it's Cat, you're going to pay a premium for the parts and service. Here's another - one of my favorites: The Department of Corrections got a deal on some surplus generators from the Iraq invasion. A couple of 400kW Caterpillar units. But - and here's the catch - they were 50Hz units. Oooops! So the State brings the Cat guys in. They say the injection pumps need to be replaced to the tune of many thousands of dollars. Now understand that the only thing that needs to happen is the speed of the engines has to be increased from 1500 RPM to 1800 RPM. According to the Cat guys you can't just turn up the speed, as they won't fuel properly, etc., etc. We have a contract with the Dept. of Corrections for many of their sites. Their head generator guy calls us out to look things over. We gather all the information we can and then go consult with our diesel fuel and injection supplier. What do we need to do? Replace a $3.00 spring in the injection pumps and turn up the speed. This is all they would do on the bench to accomplish what is needed. We replace the springs and run a four hour 100% load bank test to prove the units will do what is expected. I think our final bill was around $2,500. Cat had quoted them something like $17,000 if memory serves me correctly. They were our best customer. We just followed them around and picked off customers left and right. Dan On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: My experience with Caterpillar is limited to earthmovers where everybody does the samples. They sample hydraulic fluid too, a breakdown at a job site is way more expensive than pulling samples. I was under the impression over the road truckers were doing it too, another case where a breakdown simply isn't worth it. I'm a little surprised there aren't systems to polish the oil or heat the condensation out of it. Seems like a little heat would be big savings if we were talking about that substantial an amount of oil. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small. It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase. Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience that very few of their standby power end users do
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Depends on what you're looking for. If the idea is just to figure out a safe OCI you make a couple tests, like 5,000, 7,500, 10,000. If 10,000 looks good its probably fine to repeat. If 10,000 looks marginal you could make another run at it (I had to do that with my '85 190D, the previous owner must have used crappy oil and the M1 cleaned the engine over time) or go back to your last good test interval and call that good enough. For instance with my '85 190D I once took it all the way to 15,000 and the oil still tested fine. I dropped back to 10,000 mile OCI (twice a year at the time) and called that good enough since it meant I could change the oil in the fall and not worry about it all winter plus I knew I had a good safety margin. If the idea is to really watch for changes in the engine then ongoing samples are called for but it sounds like thats something you're not interested in. Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World Not sure I understand. Every industrial engine sampling program I ever ran was sampled on a regular schedule. I understand the baseline concept, but in the programs I worked with we would sample several times a year to determine the oil condition to determine when it was exhausted and should be changed. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: You know you don't continue with the samples right? You get a good baseline and then continue with your OCI... Plus this gives you a baseline so you know whats inside your engine... -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I just did the math on this and it doesn't make sense. Here's what I'm thinking: 7.5 quarts of oil = $34.50 Oil filter = $10.00 Oil change total = $44.50 Twice a year = $89.00 Oil change = $44.50 Oil samples = $60.00 Once a year oil change + samples = $104.50 I could dink around with the frequencies of samplings and changes, but let's say you do it over a year as shown above. You're spending more than two oil changes. Push it out to 18 months and the difference is marginal at best. The numbers just don't add up or make sense to me. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: One last thing and I'll shut up, the analysis is so easy the hassle and expense is laughable. Remember you do it 3-5 times which shows you the duration that the oil is viable. You contact Larry and give him $60, he sends you 3 bellows bottles. You put the tube down the dipstick hole, crush all the air out of the bottle and then suck up a sample. Put on the cap, put it in a baggie, fill out the paperwork, put the bottle/baggie in the prepaid mailer and then drop it in the mail. Later he emails you results and sends a paper copy in the mail. Couldn't possibly be easier unless somebody did it for you. I wish I could find the post on TDIclub where they talked about the oil being more abrasive than it ought to at first but I can't. When I find it again I'll let you know. Interestingly if you try googling around theres quite the rift. Many of the car sites like Edmunds are pushing people away from the 3,000 mile oil change but theres several shop pages pushing people back to it. The later are suggesting that cars are sludging up and failing because of infrequent oil changes. What they aren't saying is that extended OCI on conventional oils or cars that require synthetic is probably they cause... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
This SOP for industrial engines. You sample on a regular basis, after a few samples you have a baseline and then you just compare each new one to determine if there is excessive or unusual wear in a particular area. Same thing for hydraulic fluids. Your Cat buddies are watching for changes in the chemical and metal levels in the oil to see how the engine is wearing. They'll also look at the oil condition as well. You can pretty well estimate when you need specific services on the engine based on changes in the levels of certain metals. That's how they'll decide to do valve jobs, replace bearings, etc. We;re talking about engines with thousands of hours on them. too. This is in lieu of using a chronological framework to establish maintenance levels. Over the long term it makes a lot of sense and is the least expensive way to maintain things. It also allows them to anticipate certain maintenance jobs as well. Dan On Jul 16, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If the idea is to really watch for changes in the engine then ongoing samples are called for but it sounds like thats something you're not interested in. Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
--R wrote: It's the best oil for your Mercedes nuttin' like an oil thread to spark more traffic mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
It is my understanding that BIG Diesels have additional filtering that removes soot from the oil but these soot filters are not cost-effective for our little automotive Diesels. Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change intervals for a new tight engine. My one remaining Diesel car may have a tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent. So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip sampling. If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different strategy. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small. It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase. Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... Caterpillar does this themselves, but I can tell you from direct experience that very few of their standby power end users do it. The expense is often seen as something of an extravagance, and since the typical life of these units far exceeds their service life, most customers forego sampling. Customers who have fleet operations will do it as they have the programs in place already. Prime power users will do it due to cost. It's the ones who have one or two units onsite that balk at the expense. Understand that a typical oil analysis for an industrial engine from a certified lab can run into several hundred dollars by the time it's marked up by the service provider. Ask one of those Cat customers what an oil sample costs them. I find it interesting that the Mercedes Martha Stewart doesn't care about whats going on INSIDE the engine. My cars get the opposite treatment, I don't really mind what they look like, they have to perform. Then again I drive like 4x as much as you do. My cars perform, and perform well. If I found that my cam bearings were wearing, for example, I would dump the car. It's not that I don't care, as that would suggest that I don't maintain or follow MBs recommendations, and that's simply not true. I follow the service intervals religiously. With that in mind, my expectations are that the car(s) should last as long or longer than MB would predict. If fluid sampling was relevant or added value under normal operation, I would do it. Mercedes doesn't consider it necessary, nor does any other car manufacturer. Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. In my mind, it's overkill and the cost doesn't justify the expense, that's all. Dan From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World I am changing about every 5k-6k and I'm perfectly happy with that. If the oil hasn't broken in (and I would like to see the citations for these claims) by then it's not going to. For almost 25 years I worked with industrial diesels with 1000s of HP that had sumps well beyond 100 gallons. Almost every one of them was changed on a calendar basis, only a few were changed based on oil analysis. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with oil analysis, in fact, when done properly it can provide a wealth of information about the engine. In the stationary engine business, about the only people who do oil analysis are those who have an aggressive maintenance program that pays close attention to everything, and/or those running engines in prime power (continuous) operation. Everyone else does it every two years or so. Quite frankly, I don't care to do it and I don't want the additional hassle and expense. I'll just change mine on the intervals I'm happy with and continue on. And yes, we could argue that I would save money in the long run, but I'm not that interested in doing so. I'm just more comfortable with changing the oil and filter out at the mileage or time I think
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
For the most part large displacement stationary diesels have nothing more than banks of large spin on or cartridge type filters, much like you would find on your car engine. They're just larger and often in multiples in order to provide a larger filter area for the much larger oil volume. Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as well. These are literally centrifuges that spin the oil at very high RPMs in order to remove particulates. There are also particulate traps installed on the exhaust, but when I was still in the business these were in their infancy. They weren't very efficient and required frequent service. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It is my understanding that BIG Diesels have additional filtering that removes soot from the oil but these soot filters are not cost-effective for our little automotive Diesels. Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change intervals for a new tight engine. My one remaining Diesel car may have a tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent. So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip sampling. If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different strategy. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World On Jul 16, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Is the lack of analysis on stationary engines a factor of short run times? Mostly. Because of the typical short cycle times, the oil is often contaminated by condensation in the engine. This is exacerbated by the engines rarely being run under load, and even then the load is fairly small. It's not uncommon to find the waxy white deposits in the bottom of the crankcase in these engines due to their not getting hot enough to boil off moisture in the crankcase. Caterpillar has a super aggressive program of analysis that helps them keep machines running for way longer than ever before and lowers maintenance costs by allowing fluids to run longer. If I had an engine with a sump that held 100 gallons you bet I'd want to get all I could out of that oil, changing it early would be crazy talk compared to running a $20 analysis... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
All of my (previous) MB Diesels with at or over 200,000 miles were sampled, and determined that at 15,000 mile change intervals they could go another 3-5k miles due to soot level. All other elements were in tolerance as well. Bear in mind that they leaked enough oil that there were several quarts added between changes. The plus side was that my driveway was always nice and black and shed water like a duck's back. On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Obviously, a worn Diesel will allow a lot more soot to get in the oil so maybe sampling would allow extended change intervals for a new tight engine. My one remaining Diesel car may have a tight engine but it is far from new and my use of that car is inconsistent. So I change by miles or calendar (annual), whichever comes first, and skip sampling. If I drove a lot of miles on that car I might have a different strategy. Scott -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as well. As do some small motorcycles! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Mobil 1 $23 at Wally World
As did Fiats, Renaults, and Simcas in the '60s and 70's. It was in the crank pulley. They did not have oil filters. You pulled the cover from the crank pulley and dug out the compressed sludge. On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Some prime power stationary diesels can have centrifugal filters as well. As do some small motorcycles! -- Jim -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
