Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 15:29:20 -0500 WILTON via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Heat.  The magnetic field rising and falling across the transformer
> coils creates heat.  

Yes, that is true. It's called hysteresis loss.


> Mag field is there in regular outlet, too, but it's not as strong and
> as concentrated as in transformer coils - lotta conductors "stacked"
> together.

In a regular outlet, there is nothing connected across the two terminals
(Line and Neutral) to take power. In addition, there is a magnetic field
only when current is flowing. With nothing plugged into a regular outlet,
there is no current flowing and thus no magnetic field.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different
> than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If it’s
> not charging, there’s no load.
> 
> And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.

It's phantom load. 
And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can tell
by the fact that they're still warm when not in use. 
Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
switching power supplies since about 2006.

I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, also need
to meter my GFCI outlets.

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Phantom, zombie, vampires, one of those things...

These have switching power supplies.  I checked one when I installed it. 
Negligible, if that.

Dan

> On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different
>> than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If it’s
>> not charging, there’s no load.
>> 
>> And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.
> 
> It's phantom load. 
> And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can tell
> by the fact that they're still warm when not in use. 
> Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
> switching power supplies since about 2006.
> 
> I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, also 
> need
> to meter my GFCI outlets.
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I was just going to go find my Kill-A-Watt and check my charger but I can't 
find the dang Kill-A-Watt... Not where I left it anyway.
At camp our inverter has 2 USB ports that are powered even when the inverter is 
off. Each USB port draws 0.25a when charging. The inverter draws 0.50a when its 
on but not loaded and 0.01a when its off and nothing is using the USB ports, 
all of that is at 12v.
I need to spend some time with my 12v USB charger and see if its more efficient 
than the inverter. I also want to wire up a switch box with 2x switched 12v 
ports, we were forever short of charging capacity with 5 guys each having a 
phone and a tablet plus the 4G hotspot which really wants to be plugged in most 
of the time if its in use. I also want to put a switch on the inverter. 
Apparently when inverters fail its accompanied by a fireball. I disconnected 
the inverter when we left, didn't want to get to camp in the spring to find 
only charcoal.
-Curt

  From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Mitch Haley <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 3:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory
   


> On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different
> than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If it’s
> not charging, there’s no load.
> 
> And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.

It's phantom load. 
And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can tell
by the fact that they're still warm when not in use. 
Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
switching power supplies since about 2006.

I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, also need
to meter my GFCI outlets.



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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time,


They are nowhere near that bad!  Now, perhaps cheap small transformer
based wall warts are that bad, but _transformers_, under no load, do
not lose 50%!  Core saturation is loss, if the core is big enough
(and most are) and built right, the losses are low.  (CVT's are
fairly lossy, but you never did see many of those.  We used some
in our products.  The _results_ were impressive, but the efficiency
wasn't.  Nobody much cared, though.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Its an interesting idea but I don't have any outlets where one would be handy 
for my phone. Our house is older and the outlets are almost all down low so the 
normal length of USB cables would make them a waste of time.
The charger that came with my Moto X is about the best I've ever had, 2x USB 
ports which will both charge my Nook tablet which hates most generic chargers. 
Its high powered (2a each port) so stuff charges fast. I've got it on a power 
strip by the desk, very handy for my phone and tablet.
-Curt
  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2015 8:36 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory
   
I have a few of these installed around the house, one behind my bedside table, 
another in the kitchen on the side countertop.  They’re quite convenient, and 
save people from having to run around and find chargers.

http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/SearchPromo.cfm?Ntk=Primary=100361=P_Popularity%7c1=5000=100361=MacSalesCyber2015=READERSPC=Blast15Dec1

The only bad thing I can say is that if you don’t have a deep junction box, 
it’s really tight as these are deep.


Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

USB is 5V

--R

On 12/4/15 1:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Because a USB port is 3v, something is lost in the conversion.
-Curt

   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 1:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

Why isn't that true for ANY 110V AC outlet?


On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:


On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:53:56 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


No different than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of
the time.

Yes.



If it’s not charging, there’s no load.

No, there is a load on the AC keeping it ready for use.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Heat.  The magnetic field rising and falling across the transformer coils 
creates heat.  Mag field is there in regular outlet, too, but it's not as 
strong and as concentrated as in transformer coils - lotta conductors 
"stacked" together.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Curt Raymond" <curtlud...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory



Because a USB port is 3v, something is lost in the conversion.
-Curt

 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

Why isn't that true for ANY 110V AC outlet?

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:


On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:53:56 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No different than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of
> the time.

Yes.


> If it’s not charging, there’s no load.

No, there is a load on the AC keeping it ready for use.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Power _conversion_ is never 100% efficient.  In most of
these types of power supplies, the converted power is always
available, whether you're using it or not.  That's why I
like things with true power switches.

There is essentially no magnetic field around an unused
household outlet, because there's no power _flow_.  (There
is no H field, though there is an E field.)  The EM losses
do add up, which is why they've got extreme-voltage DC lines
for long distance.  The cost/losses of converting to/from HVDC
are less than the parasitic (E-field and H-field) losses of AC,
over the distances and power levels concerned.

Fascinating stuff.  Or totally boring, depending on your point
of view.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:53:56 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> No different than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of
> the time.  

Yes.


> If it’s not charging, there’s no load.

No, there is a load on the AC keeping it ready for use.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Because a USB port is 3v, something is lost in the conversion.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 1:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory
   
Why isn't that true for ANY 110V AC outlet?

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:53:56 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > No different than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of
> > the time.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > If it’s not charging, there’s no load.
>
> No, there is a load on the AC keeping it ready for use.
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Why isn't that true for ANY 110V AC outlet?

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:53:56 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > No different than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of
> > the time.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > If it’s not charging, there’s no load.
>
> No, there is a load on the AC keeping it ready for use.
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[WILTON via Mercedes]

"switching" meaning the trasnsforming function is turned OFF when unit being 
charged is unplugged?


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: "Mitch Haley" <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>; "Mercedes Discussion List" 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Cc: "Dan Penoff" <d...@penoff.com>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory



Phantom, zombie, vampires, one of those things...

These have switching power supplies.  I checked one when I installed it. 
Negligible, if that.


Dan

On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:




On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

wrote:


Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No 
different
than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If 
it’s

not charging, there’s no load.

And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.


It's phantom load.
And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can 
tell

by the fact that they're still warm when not in use.
Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
switching power supplies since about 2006.

I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, 
also need

to meter my GFCI outlets.

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Ya don't get somethin' for nothin' - ya makes da heat with magnetic field 
rising and falling - ya pays for it.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Mitch Haley" <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory





On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

wrote:


Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No 
different
than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If 
it’s

not charging, there’s no load.

And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.


It's phantom load.
And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can 
tell

by the fact that they're still warm when not in use.
Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
switching power supplies since about 2006.

I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, also 
need

to meter my GFCI outlets.

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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply


> On Dec 4, 2015, at 2:19 PM, WILTON via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> "switching" meaning the trasnsforming function is turned OFF when unit being 
> charged is unplugged?
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: "Mitch Haley" <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>; "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: "Dan Penoff" <d...@penoff.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 6:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory
> 
> 
>> Phantom, zombie, vampires, one of those things...
>> 
>> These have switching power supplies.  I checked one when I installed it. 
>> Negligible, if that.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On December 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different
>>>> than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If 
>>>> it’s
>>>> not charging, there’s no load.
>>>> 
>>>> And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.
>>> 
>>> It's phantom load.
>>> And transformers draw about half of full load power all the time, you can 
>>> tell
>>> by the fact that they're still warm when not in use.
>>> Switching power supplies, not so much. All my cell phones have come with
>>> switching power supplies since about 2006.
>>> 
>>> I need to get some USB outlets and power them through my Kill-A-Watt, also 
>>> need
>>> to meter my GFCI outlets.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

$9 is a great price. I put a bunch in my addition, they were like $25 at Lowes. 
The usb puts out 2A in mine. I have some set up as power points for 
arduino-controlled under cabinet lights (rgb LED modules) that I need to get 
set up. Should be plenty of juice to run a string of them and the controllers. 

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different 
than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If it’s 
not charging, there’s no load.

And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.

Dan

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Clever, but aren't those going to be a constant (albeit small) electrical 
> load when not in use?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
>> On December 3, 2015 8:36:34 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> I have a few of these installed around the house, one behind my bedside
>> table, another in the kitchen on the side countertop.  They’re quite
>> convenient, and save people from having to run around and find
>> chargers.
>> 
>> http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/SearchPromo.cfm?Ntk=Primary=100361=P_Popularity%7c1=5000=100361=MacSalesCyber2015=READERSPC=Blast15Dec1
> 
> 
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[MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have a few of these installed around the house, one behind my bedside table, 
another in the kitchen on the side countertop.  They’re quite convenient, and 
save people from having to run around and find chargers.

http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/SearchPromo.cfm?Ntk=Primary=100361=P_Popularity%7c1=5000=100361=MacSalesCyber2015=READERSPC=Blast15Dec1

The only bad thing I can say is that if you don’t have a deep junction box, 
it’s really tight as these are deep.


Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Clever, but aren't those going to be a constant (albeit small) electrical load 
when not in use?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 3, 2015 8:36:34 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I have a few of these installed around the house, one behind my bedside
>table, another in the kitchen on the side countertop.  They’re quite
>convenient, and save people from having to run around and find
>chargers.
>
>http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/SearchPromo.cfm?Ntk=Primary=100361=P_Popularity%7c1=5000=100361=MacSalesCyber2015=READERSPC=Blast15Dec1
>


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Re: [MBZ] Nice USB Accessory

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Why?  If there is nothing plugged into them, there’s no load.  No different 
than if you left your charger plugged into the wall all of the time.  If it’s 
not charging, there’s no load.

And please don’t anyone start about “vampire loads”.

Dan

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Clever, but aren't those going to be a constant (albeit small) electrical 
> load when not in use?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On December 3, 2015 8:36:34 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> I have a few of these installed around the house, one behind my bedside
>> table, another in the kitchen on the side countertop.  They’re quite
>> convenient, and save people from having to run around and find
>> chargers.
>> 
>> http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/SearchPromo.cfm?Ntk=Primary=100361=P_Popularity%7c1=5000=100361=MacSalesCyber2015=READERSPC=Blast15Dec1
>> 
> 
> 
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> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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