Re: [MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

2018-06-28 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
YIMBY!

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don via 
Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 10:36 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: OK Don
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

Too true - - - (dim bulbs - all they know is how to get and stay elected).
I'd like one in my backyard though (thermal salt reactor) . . .

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Max sez:
>
> 
> >Thermal salt reactor
>
>  Sorry, but IMHO, it will never happen here.
> Politicians on all sides of the fence are pretty dim bulbs... And they are
> not getting any brighter.
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

2018-06-28 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
 
Ok Don sez:

>I'd like one in my backyard though

 If everyone with ownership of a half acre or more had one in their back yard, 
it would be a different country. 

Oh, I am referring to  thorium reactors...

AND politicians.
Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

2018-06-28 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Too true - - - (dim bulbs - all they know is how to get and stay elected).
I'd like one in my backyard though (thermal salt reactor) . . .

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Max sez:
>
> 
> >Thermal salt reactor
>
>  Sorry, but IMHO, it will never happen here.
> Politicians on all sides of the fence are pretty dim bulbs... And they are
> not getting any brighter.
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



Re: [MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

2018-06-28 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
 
Max sez:


>Thermal salt reactor

 Sorry, but IMHO, it will never happen here.
Politicians on all sides of the fence are pretty dim bulbs... And they are not 
getting any brighter.   
Rick
___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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[MBZ] OT Thorium Reactor news of the day

2018-06-28 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
http://www.atimes.com/article/is-indonesia-preparing-to-go-nuclear/

---

"Blessed with copious amounts of coal, huge reserves of natural gas and a
rich store of geothermal energy and other climate-friendly renewables,
Indonesia’s frequent talk over the years about venturing into the nuclear
age has always appeared to lack conviction.

What concerns many Indonesians is not only the threat posed to a nuclear
power plant by earthquakes and tsunamis in one of the world’s most
geothermally active nations, but also whether authorities are capable of
putting in place and, more importantly, strictly enforcing safeguards
against disasters.

Neighbors like Singapore and Australia have always shared serious concerns
of a potential disaster if Indonesia goes nuclear, given its suspect safety
record in other fields. Why then, the skeptics ask, would a new specially
appointed industry watchdog allay any of those concerns?

Nuclear energy advocate Bob Effendi, a member of President Joko Widodo’s
National Economic and Industry Committee (KEIN), has a ready answer for the
nuclear naysayers: mitigate much of the risk of conventional reactors by
using a thorium-fueled molten salt reactor, which is not only immune to
meltdown but is cheaper and produces less toxic waste.
Thermal salt reactor

Why Indonesia’s thermal salt reactor is being revisited 60 years after it
was first developed but not brought online requires an understanding of the
complex political, industrial and military reasons that drove the United
States to choose uranium-fed water-cooled water reactors in the first place.

Effenndi, a former oilman, challenges the widely held perception that
Indonesia has limitless sources of energy, claiming that coal and gas
reserves will be depleted by 2035-2040 and that the potential for
renewables like solar and wind is only 15% of what it is generally claimed
to be.

Nuclear energy’s image took a huge hit after the tsunami-triggered accident
at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi plant in 2011 – the worst since the 1986
Chernobyl meltdown disaster – which caused Germany, Spain, Italy and
Belgium to resolve to phase out their own nuclear power programs.

Then Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono already had reservations
about nuclear power when so much else was on offer. “As long as there are
other alternatives, we will not use nuclear resources,*”* Yudhoyono
declared in a 2009 election speech.

His successor, Widodo, initially seemed to embrace that no-nuke sentiment
as well, telling a Japanese newspaper during the 2014 election campaign
that he thought there were plenty of other options before Indonesia should
consider going nuclear.

Then, in late 2015, US energy firm Martingale signed an MoU with
state-owned PT Industry Nuklir Indonesia (INUKI), PT Perusahaan Listrik
Negara (PLN) and PT Pertamina to conduct a feasibility study into whether
its ThorCon molten salt reactor could help meet Indonesia’s future energy
needs.

Widodo was there for the MOU’s signing in Washington, later saying in a
statement on his return home that if nuclear is needed “we must immediately
start preparing for it. This should not be allowed to drift. A decision
must be made, but the cost has to be ascertained.”
Alternative design

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has already declared
Indonesia nuclear compliant on all but two of 21 conditions – for a firm
government position on nuclear power and the establishment of an
organization to implement the construction of a power plant.

The typical nuclear reactor uses uranium rods suspended in pressurized
water, which are fission-heated and generate the steam to drive a
turbine. The water also acts as a cooling system, with pumps to keep it
circulating. Any loss of power leads to overheating and a meltdown, as
happened during the Fukushima tsunami.

In the alternative design, the nuclear reaction occurs when thorium, a
similar radioactive element to uranium, is dissolved in a bath of molten
salt which works under normal atmospheric pressure because unlike water it
does not vaporize at high temperatures; if it overheats, fission will
automatically stop.

The molten salt concept means the reactor doesn’t require thick walls to
contain the pressure and will never be in danger of a meltdown because an
overheated salt bath will melt the freeze plug and drain by force of
gravity into a containment vessel where it will cool on its own.
National Nuclear Energy Agency

Indonesia has only modest quantities of uranium, but it does have an
estimated 170,000 tons of thorium, concentrated in the tin-rich Sumatran
province of Bangka-Belitung, which is found in the monazite sands unearthed
during the tin-mining process.

Indonesia already leads Southeast Asia in nuclear experience. Established
in 1954 at the height of the Cold War, Indonesia’s National Nuclear Energy
Agency (BATAN) commissioned a 30-megawatt (MW) nuclear research reactor at
Serpong, on the outskirts of Jakarta, in