Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[MG via Mercedes]

Alcohol will take it right off.

MG

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
If you are talking about household/construction silicone seal, yes, it 
is under the "improper use of"
I was talking about the blue, red or black silicone form a gasket 
specifically made for engine use.


Overuse also falls under "improper use of"

I have seen only 1 or 2 cases where a gasket had adhesive applied at the 
factory.   Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When 
replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely 
to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed.   Same with the 
transfer or lift pump on the IP, especially on an 85 cali car.  There is 
no room to work, you are working blind, so the blue goo is essential to 
hold the gasket in place for assembly.


I quit using #2 permatex because it is nearly impossible to remove.  The 
permatex blue and red products stick well, even where there is a coating 
of thin oil.  YMMV

Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 7:37 AM
The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate 
for the job. Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often 
refuse to stick (ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada 
getting a water pump to seal in the dead of winter).


Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some 
idiot glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil 
filter housing, with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the 
oil supply to #2 main badly enough it ate the bearing.


The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount. 
Typically, if the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with 
adhesive/sealant on it is a sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or 
may not.


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

One big difference between factory and repair/replacement is that the 
factory assembled the engine and accessories out of the car, then I 
think for the 123s and later, the engine/trans is put on the subframes 
on a sled, then the body is lowered onto the subframes/sled.   When the 
manuals are written, they start with a shiny clean new car.


As more and more subsystems are hung on vehicles, it gets more and more 
difficult to do repairs in the field.  The 85 calif 300Ds, being at the 
end of life for that design (being manufactured) are more difficult to 
work on than a 1977 300D.  Some of these real life circumstances make 
keeping a gasket in place during (often blind) assembly much more 
important than it was at the factory.


If it is possible to put in a gasket dry, then I do.   There have been 
times where  I  can't wait a week for the right gasket, so I use a 
little blue goo with or without the remains of the old gasket.  I've 
never had a problem with this in somewhere around 40 years of doing this.


If you are fortunate enough to be able to get parts the same day, that 
is great.  In the 80s, I could get almost anything within two days.  But 
in the past 25 years it has been a week to get parts unless Rusty paid 
the difference for two day fedex out of the goodness of his heart.  This 
fall it took over 2 weeks to get a stupid IP gasket from the CC for an 
OM616.  That is one that must have a new gasket and no Blue goo or other 
gunk.

YMMV


Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 8:44 AM

I prefer to glue the gasket to the removable part (easier to clean in 
the future)
with High Tack, and apply a thin layer of Hylomar on the block (or 
stationary) side
of the gasket. I suggested Permatex #2 because Hylomar is not readily 
available (FLAPS).


To each his own,
YMMV,

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Max inquires:

>Can you or
>anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

Sure. Watch this video.



Long, boring (for most), and I don't particularly
care for the guy, but, it outlines my point.

Rick

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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curley sez:

>Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When
>replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely
>to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed

I prefer to glue the gasket to the removable part (easier to clean in the 
future)
with High Tack, and apply a thin layer of Hylomar on the block (or stationary) 
side
of the gasket.  I suggested Permatex #2 because Hylomar is not readily 
available (FLAPS).

To each his own,
YMMV,

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Rick
  Original Message
From: Dan--- via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 4:18 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: d...@penoff.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan


Absolutely. I don’t use silicone sealant on anything automotive. Ever.

I’ve got a tube of the sealant they recommend for the M103 timing cover seal. 
That should work, shouldn’t it?

Thanks!

Dan

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Dan asks:
>
>> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?
>
> Not I.
>
> ‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.
>
> I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, 
> ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per 
> the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine 
> time.
>
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

If you are talking about household/construction silicone seal, yes, it 
is under the "improper use of"
I was talking about the blue, red or black silicone form a gasket 
specifically made for engine use.


Overuse also falls under "improper use of"

I have seen only 1 or 2 cases where a gasket had adhesive applied at the 
factory.   Vac pump is a very thin gasket, large and easily torn.  When 
replacing the vac pump in a car a thin coat of blue goo helps immensely 
to hold the gasket in place while the pump is installed.   Same with the 
transfer or lift pump on the IP, especially on an 85 cali car.  There is 
no room to work, you are working blind, so the blue goo is essential to 
hold the gasket in place for assembly.


I quit using #2 permatex because it is nearly impossible to remove.  The 
permatex blue and red products stick well, even where there is a coating 
of thin oil.  YMMV

Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 7:37 AM
The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate 
for the job. Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often 
refuse to stick (ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada 
getting a water pump to seal in the dead of winter).


Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some 
idiot glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil 
filter housing, with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the 
oil supply to #2 main badly enough it ate the bearing.


The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount. 
Typically, if the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with 
adhesive/sealant on it is a sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or 
may not.


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The issue with silicone sealants is that they are often inappropriate for the 
job.  Unless formulated for use in contact with oil, they often refuse to stick 
(ditto for use with coolant, as I found out in Canada getting a water pump to 
seal in the dead of winter).

Worst case you get what happened to the 75 300D my brother had -- some idiot 
glopped a huge amount of orange silicone sealant on the oil filter housing, 
with the result that a lump peeled off and plugged the oil supply to #2 main 
badly enough it ate the bearing.

The gasket is supplied with adhesive on it.

The service manual will specify the correct sealant and amount.  Typically, if 
the gasket need sealing, it will be supplied with adhesive/sealant on it is a 
sealed package from MB, aftermarket may or may not.  
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The problem is not the "proper use of", but "improper use of".  I have 
used the blue goo for close to 40 years and never had a problem.  I DID 
see a problem in the kleb SDL turbo, where someone had way over smeared 
the red stuff, nearly plugging the oil supply.   None of that broke 
loose or moved anywhere.  It did severely restrict the oil flow, which 
was already restricted by the hole in the gasket.


I have used it many times for things like vac pumps and water pumps.

I had a friend who had a sbc where part of the intake manifold gasket 
fell down when he reassembled it.  Rather than take off the manifold and 
put the gasket in place, he filled the void with blue goo.  It ran that 
way until he sold it.  I was amazed that it stuck, in that case.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 29, 2018 at 6:31 AM
Rick,

I think this is more Dr. Marshall Booth lore (not to say he was right or
wrong, I think he was right on this one) as I could never find that 
warning

against RTV or silicone anywhere in the 123 or 124 manuals. Can you or
anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Rick,

I think this is more Dr. Marshall Booth lore (not to say he was right or
wrong, I think he was right on this one) as I could never find that warning
against RTV or silicone anywhere in the 123 or 124 manuals.  Can you or
anyone point me to a reference or procedure?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> IMHO never, never, ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't
> absolutely require it per the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil
> passage, it's new engine time.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Absolutely. I don’t use silicone sealant on anything automotive. Ever.

I’ve got a tube of the sealant they recommend for the M103 timing cover seal. 
That should work, shouldn’t it?

Thanks!

Dan

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan asks:
> 
>> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?
> 
> Not I.
> 
> ‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.
> 
> I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, 
> ever use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per 
> the manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine 
> time.
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Dan asks:

>Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an >M119?

Not I.

‎>if I should expect to use any sort of >sealant.

I use Hylomar or Permagasket #2 non-hardening sealant. IMHO never, never, ever 
use silicone sealant on anything that doesn't absolutely require it per the 
manual. When it breaks free and clogs an oil passage, it's new engine time.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] M119 Oil Pan

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

My mechanic changed the lower pan seal on my E420.  No big hassle, from
what he said.  He did use sealant as a JIC thing.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Anyone here dropped an oil pan on an M119?  Just the lower cover, not the
> whole pan.
>
> Wife’s R129 has a stuck low oil level sender that I had to disconnect
> today so it didn’t freak her out constantly.  While this is really a
> froo-froo sort of thing since it’s her car I feel better getting it
> replaced.
>
> The lower cover on the pan has to come off so the oil level sender can
> come out.  I’m just wondering how bad the gaskets are on these and if I
> should expect to use any sort of sealant.
>
> -D
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

A number of people have reported via oil analysis that Truck and Turbo  
is fine for VW PD engines.  Mine is a 2004 and does not have the  
particulate burner that older oils will fill with ash, so I think  
it's OK.


It is the only oil on the list at tdiclub that I can find around here,  
short of going to the dealer.  I've used it for years in Mercedes  
diesels, I think it will be far better than the Speedy Oiler stuff my  
nephew was having put in.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting thread.  I’ll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 15W-50 in 
everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I’m wondering if that’s not such a 
good idea in the S430?


Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.
0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Cool.  I have a partial 5 quart jug from when I moved the older M119s up to the 
15W-50.  Guess I’ll only need one to make up what I’ll need.

Thanks!

I do find it interesting that there are stickers under the hood that say 
“Mercedes-Benz recommends Mobil1 oil” but there’s nothing specifying the proper 
viscosity.

Dan


 On May 31, 2015, at 12:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 Interesting thread.  I’ll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 15W-50 
 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I’m wondering if that’s not 
 such a good idea in the S430?
 
 Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.
 0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

112 is v6 113 v8

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

 I have 3 112/113 engines and that is what I run
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 31, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 Interesting thread.  I'll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 
 15W-50 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I'm wondering if 
 that's not such a good idea in the S430?
 
 Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.
  0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.
 
 
 What is M112 and M113?  is that the v6 E320 gas engine?
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Lab analysis from my OM603  OM606 say otherwise...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On May 31, 2015 11:52:15 AM EDT, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin



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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

What are you saying?

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Lab analysis from my OM603  OM606 say otherwise...
 -- 
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 On May 31, 2015 11:52:15 AM EDT, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

I used Castrol SynBlend 10w40 at my last oil change.  The '97 E420 seems to
like it just fine.  :)

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

 This is in general, not MB Specific:  I don't know where the break is,
 somewhere around mid 90s to 2000, but post 2000 gas engines need thin oil,
 and 15-50 may do damage, unless it is really worn.  most are 0W-20 and some
 are 0W-30.


 The viscosity requirements in the owner's manual are the same old ones
 we're used to in 1980s engines. I can run 15W50 down to 15°F, and that's
 probably assuming dino oil. Not supposed to use xW30 above 50°.

 I'm just trying to figure out which spec. It seems like everybody uses
 229.3 or 229.5, BEVO doesn't currently tell which spec sheet applies to
 engines as old as M119.

 Right about now, I'm tempted to dump in 5 qts of super high
 zinc/phosphorus 15W50 and top it off with the 10W40 high mileage. It's good
 to know that the high mileage has more of the good stuff in it than the
 regular 10W40.

 Or I can fill it all the way with 15W50 now and plan on changing to 0W40
 or 5W40 if I still have the car in December, or I can stick it in the
 garage for the winter with the 2.3-16 and not worry about putting winter
 oil in it.

 Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300


Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Interesting thread.  I’ll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 15W-50 in 
everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I’m wondering if that’s not such a 
good idea in the S430?

Dan


 On May 31, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:
This is in general, not MB Specific:  I don't know where the break is, 
somewhere around mid 90s to 2000, but post 2000 gas engines need thin 
oil, and 15-50 may do damage, unless it is really worn.  most are 0W-20 
and some are 0W-30.


The viscosity requirements in the owner's manual are the same old ones we're 
used to in 1980s engines. I can run 15W50 down to 15°F, and that's probably 
assuming dino oil. Not supposed to use xW30 above 50°.


I'm just trying to figure out which spec. It seems like everybody uses 229.3 or 
229.5, BEVO doesn't currently tell which spec sheet applies to engines as old as 
M119.


Right about now, I'm tempted to dump in 5 qts of super high zinc/phosphorus 
15W50 and top it off with the 10W40 high mileage. It's good to know that the 
high mileage has more of the good stuff in it than the regular 10W40.


Or I can fill it all the way with 15W50 now and plan on changing to 0W40 or 5W40 
if I still have the car in December, or I can stick it in the garage for the 
winter with the 2.3-16 and not worry about putting winter oil in it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I don't know if this stuff would help, but the aviation version is the
only oil additive that is recommended almost universally. Note that the
reason is that it sticks to the cam in between engine runs, to keep tha cam
from rusting, which is a major cause of engine wear in seldom flown
aircraft. I put it in the truck, since I only drive it every other week or
so.

http://aslcamguard.com/products/automotive



On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 This is becoming quite an issue with older engines.  All new designs
 appear to use roller tappets, and the racing/mud bog guys, using old
 Detroit iron with flat tappets running directly on the camshaft are
 reporting serious wear problems.  Since most newer engines don't need the
 phenyl phosphate additives, they are NOT in most engine oils anymore, they
 cause issues with catalytic converters.

 For three dollars an oil change I'd stick with the Truck and Turbo -- it
 is also acceptable for VW tdi engines, which also use flat tappets.

 Peter




-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
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WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
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1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:


 Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.

  0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.
 


What is M112 and M113?  is that the v6 E320 gas engine?


Yes, 112 is the '98-up 320 V-6 with 18 valves and 12 spark plugs.
113 is the 430 V-8 with 24 valves and 16 spark plugs.
My 1999 e320 has a M112.
Dan's new 2003 S430 is M`113.
They take the same 0W40 stuff as a lot of BMWs and VWs do.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I have 3 112/113 engines and that is what I run

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 Interesting thread.  I'll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I 
run 15W-50 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I'm 
wondering if that's not such a good idea in the S430?


 Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.

  0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.
 


What is M112 and M113?  is that the v6 E320 gas engine?

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

You want to run the 0w40 in that 113 engine.

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Interesting thread.  I’ll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 15W-50 
 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I’m wondering if that’s not such 
 a good idea in the S430?
 
 Dan
 
 
 On May 31, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I have 3 112/113 engines and that is what I run

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 Interesting thread.  I’ll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 15W-50 
 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I’m wondering if that’s not 
 such a good idea in the S430?
 
 Agree with Kaleb, I went through this three years ago.
 0W40 euro car oils for M112 and M113.
 
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

What are you saying?


Looks like Max is saying that 0W40 doesn't cause wear metals in the analysis on 
his 603 and 606.


Seems like a lot of people from Marshall on down have said a 602/603 is noisier 
on 0W40 than on 5W40.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Wear metals were within limits using the oil I recommended on those two engines.

Larry - do you still have that spreadsheet with all the lab results for various 
customers cars?  Did that show oil brand and weight, as well as engine type?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On May 31, 2015 1:41:56 PM EDT, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
What are you saying?

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 31, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Lab analysis from my OM603  OM606 say otherwise...
 -- 
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 On May 31, 2015 11:52:15 AM EDT, Curly McLain via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
 Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin
 


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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It don't hurt nothing. I used a lot of it in my '83 240D back in the day when I 
had no good place to plug in a block heater and we had a super cold winter. 
That car leaked it real bad though. Leaked 5w40 a bit less while still starting 
okay so I switched to that. It did make a little more noise cold but it went 
away warm.I never did try it in a 601. It meets the appropriate MB spec though 
so I wouldn't hesitate to.
-Curt

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com 
 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 11:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] M119 oil
   
0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin



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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Peter, isn't your VW a 2003?
AFAIK M1 5w40 doesn't carry any VW spec. Supposedly this is because they've 
never applied for it and it will work fine in the older cars. I'm not sure that 
applies to the PD engines in the 2003 and newer cars. I'm reasonably sure it 
does NOT apply to the newest and just before it generations. Those cars 
apparently require an Xw30 oil or bad things happen to the DPF (diesel 
particulate filter.)
Greetings from 30,000 feet BTW. JetBlue wifi is free.
-Curt

  From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net 
 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 10:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] M119 oil
   
Truck and turbo only, it's the only on of them you mention that I KNOW  
has the necessary lubricants for high friction flat surfaces -- I  
don't know the design of the M119 all that well, but if it uses cams  
running on rocker arms, it needs the high friction flat surface  
lubricants.

This is becoming quite an issue with older engines.  All new designs  
appear to use roller tappets, and the racing/mud bog guys, using old  
Detroit iron with flat tappets running directly on the camshaft are  
reporting serious wear problems.  Since most newer engines don't need  
the phenyl phosphate additives, they are NOT in most engine oils  
anymore, they cause issues with catalytic converters.

For three dollars an oil change I'd stick with the Truck and Turbo --  
it is also acceptable for VW tdi engines, which also use flat tappets.

Peter



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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

THe engines that call for 0W-x oil have tighter clearances and are 
made for the light oil.  if the mfgr call for 0W-20, that is what 
should be used.  some call for 0W-30.  the 0W-40 may be the spec for 
some, but none I have seen.   TO me it is an attempt to cover more 
vehicles with one oil.


My 09 Brand X calls for 0W-20.

I dunno what MB calls for after 87.  That is the newest MB I have.


Interesting thread.  I'll be buying oil for the S430 shortly.  I run 
15W-50 in everything here, mainly due to the heat.  I'm wondering if 
that's not such a good idea in the S430?


Dan


 On May 31, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:



 0w-40 Euro car formula.  I'd use that in all your Mercedes.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300



  Not for OM61x and OM60x engines.  too thin
 


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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Truck and turbo only, it's the only on of them you mention that I KNOW  
has the necessary lubricants for high friction flat surfaces -- I  
don't know the design of the M119 all that well, but if it uses cams  
running on rocker arms, it needs the high friction flat surface  
lubricants.


This is becoming quite an issue with older engines.  All new designs  
appear to use roller tappets, and the racing/mud bog guys, using old  
Detroit iron with flat tappets running directly on the camshaft are  
reporting serious wear problems.  Since most newer engines don't need  
the phenyl phosphate additives, they are NOT in most engine oils  
anymore, they cause issues with catalytic converters.


For three dollars an oil change I'd stick with the Truck and Turbo --  
it is also acceptable for VW tdi engines, which also use flat tappets.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 31 May 2015 09:51:08 -0400 Mitch Haley via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 0W40 Euro car formula $24/5qt

 10W40 high mileage car formula $24/5qt.
 
 20W50 standard formula $24/5qt.
 
 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck $27/4 qt.
 
 What do you guys think I should do?


I used 0W40 in both our M119 and M104.

Peter recommends the 5W40. It's actually $6.75/quart (you say the 5W40
is a four quart jug), while the others are $4.80/quart. At a seven quart
fill, the difference is $13.65 for an oil change.

But Peter's point is still true.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Craig via Mercedes wrote:


But Peter's point is still true.


And a little EPC research tells me it's got flat tappets.
119-050-08-25

So, stick with Turbo Diesel Truck or 15w50?
Or have they taken the zinc out of the 15W50 by now?

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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

This is in general, not MB Specific:  I don't know where the break 
is, somewhere around mid 90s to 2000, but post 2000 gas engines need 
thin oil, and 15-50 may do damage, unless it is really worn.  most 
are 0W-20 and some are 0W-30.


Consult the owners manual and the approved oils list for MB


Craig via Mercedes wrote:


But Peter's point is still true.


And a little EPC research tells me it's got flat tappets.
119-050-08-25

So, stick with Turbo Diesel Truck or 15w50?
Or have they taken the zinc out of the 15W50 by now?


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Re: [MBZ] M119 oil

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I would have bought the 0w40 for a gasser, I would not use it in a diesel


I wish I knew what spec sheet to use for M119.
0W40 meets 229.3 and 229.5, which is why I use it in the M112.

From Mobil:

Their oil finder says to use 229.3 or 229.5, and recommends their 0W40 and 5W50.

0W40 has zinc and phosphorus levels of 1000 and 1100 ppm, as does 5W50.
10W40 high mileage is also 1000 and 1100.
15w50 that I use in my 2.3-16 is 1200 and 1300
5W40 TDT is 1130 and 1250. Does 13% more really make a difference? If so, am I 
better off with the 15W50? I already have about 7-8 qts of that in the garage.



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