Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:02 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Remember there are 2 ways to short the starter. One is across the posts of the starter itself. This will make the starter spin but I guess on an MB will not make it engage. The other is to short from the hot lead on the solenoid to the start lead on the solenoid. This is what you'd do with a remote starter switch and is mimicking what the key switch does when you start the car. 50 amp charge shouldn't affect anything other than the battery. The battery becomes a sink for the extra power. Its still only 12v, well probably 14 something but lets not be like that. ;) -Curt From: Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Greg Fiorentino greg.fiorent...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:02 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Shorting the starter: shorting from big terminal (battery) to big terminal (starter power) will cause spinning but no starter engagement. Your starter passed that simple test. Shorting from big terminal (battery) to the small third terminal should make the solenoid plunger (1) engage the starter gear teeth in the engine flywheel and (2) make the starter spin and turn the engine over. Plenty of youtube videos of starter testing and rebuild. Most likely either battery or solenoid, but remember there are wires and switch in between all. No fuse between battery and starter, I doubt there is a fuse between ignition switch and starter. If automatic transmission, there is also the neutral safety switch. Bad wiring/connection or failing switch can rob voltage/amperage from the start signal to the solenoid and cause no start condition. The fifty amp charger setting would not hurt anything unless it was already on the edge of failure. I've used that setting, I think mine is also 50 amps, and I worry about burning out the charger, not anything on the car. This place has great prices on Bosch starter solenoids. The trick is to research your Bosch starter model and figure out which solenoid fits. Note that if you replace the solenoid and fix the issue, the rest of the starter is also old and tired and may be about to fail as well. http://aspwholesale.com/index.php?_a=categorycat_id=333 Intermittent battery drain could be battery, or something entirely unrelated like the glow plug relay turning itself on, the radio or antenna. - Max Charleston SC Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Sounds like your starter is bad. Confirm by checking for 12V on the small wire when the key is on the starter position. If you have 12v to switch on the starter, and the battery and cables are good, then the starter is your problem. Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:02 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:02 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
First, load test the battery. A trip to any FLAPs should test it for free. The load test will show if you have a battery with failed internal plates, which will not then give you full amps to run starter. If the battery loads tests good, then I suggest the starter solenoid possibly welded it's self internally to stuck position which does not engage the starter bendix, since the starter runs free when hooked directly to 12 volts. Start simple by having the battery load tested, fix that problem, if it is one, and since the battery is self discharging, [if I read your post correctly] it is suspect. It is possible to have more than one problem arise at the same time, however, such as the starter solenoid/bendix function and the battery having a warped plate. [possible scenario with high charge rate and low water, perhaps]. Hope this gives you some place to start.. Good luck. Grant... On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Thanks for all your thoughts. Further information: Shorting the starter results in starter spinning without engaging flywheel. Solenoid *thunk* without starter turning began after my son attempted starting with the 50 amp momentary setting on my 10 amp battery charger. Is there a fuse or other component likely to have been affected by this event? TIA again. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:02 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg WIll the starter start the engine when you jump the solenoid? Bad starter/solenoid? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Do the battery test with a voltmeter but it may also be a dead spot on the starter commutator. Sometimes the brushes get stuck and don't make good contact with the commutator. Sometimes it's an actual dead or dirty spot on the commutator. If the battery tests good, try wacking the starter with a board or hammer and then try to crank. 18 to 24 of 1/2 hard copper tubing works well for whacking the solenoid and also for jumping it. I always carry that and a 2' long screwdriver for both duties. Double safe. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Put a meter on the battery, turn for the click and observe voltage. IIRC it should stay above like 10v when starting. I suspect in your case its sagging badly. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D Sounds like a bad battery --R On 8/15/15 7:47 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Do the battery test with a voltmeter but it may also be a dead spot on the starter commutator. Sometimes the brushes get stuck and don't make good contact with the commutator. Sometimes it's an actual dead or dirty spot on the commutator. If the battery tests good, try wacking the starter with a board or hammer and then try to crank. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 7:48 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Greg Fiorentino greg.fiorent...@gmail.com Subject: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? TIA for your thoughts, Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Starter/Alternator/Battery Problem 240D
Greg wrote: So, the 1980 240D has strange symptoms: Intermittent battery draining and when battery is recharged to full, the ignition switch causes a loud click (the solenoid actuating) but then no engine turning. Are these symptoms likely associated? Is one causing the other? I doubt they are related. Click-no-crank is usually the fault of the solenoid itself - the contacts not making connection. The solenoid is entirely out of the circuit until the key is turned, so it's unlikely it's the cause of the phantom discharge. Unless the click-no-crank is because the battery is dead. An easy check is turn on an interior light. It should dim - but not practically go out. If it goes out, the battery has insufficient current capacity. This could mean either the starter is drawing too much or the battery is weak. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
