Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Rick wrote:
> You need to watch the whole episode‎. South Park Season 10 Episode 2. It's on 
> Hulu.
>

Hulu used to happen.
Hulu upgraded their requirements.  My machine is 15+ years old, so...
yeah, SouthPark ain't happenin.
the youtube summary was back and forth preachy
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-TWO-MICROTURBO-SAPHIRE-TURBINE-APU-PACKAGES-FOR-FALCON-CORPORATE-JET-/271958346624?hash=item3f51fb0b80=mtr


On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
>> a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine
>>
>
> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>
> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
> would also be nice.
>
> -- Jim
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As a young boy growing up in Indianapolis, I vividly recall the revolutionary 
application of a gas turbine in a major motorsports event:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP-Paxton_Turbocar

Under full race setup the reciprocating engined cars would easily exceed 120 db 
sound levels.  Andy’s car could barely be heard.

Another little known fact - Studebaker, through their ownership of STP, was a 
sponsor.  It never ocurred to me until now, but I found it humorous that 
drivers complained that it suffered from throttle lag.  Go figure…

Dan

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 2:31 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Like this?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-TWO-MICROTURBO-SAPHIRE-TURBINE-APU-PACKAGES-FOR-FALCON-CORPORATE-JET-/271958346624?hash=item3f51fb0b80=mtr
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
>>> a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine
>>> 
>> 
>> The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
>> not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
>> hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
>> and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
>> full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
>> is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
>> So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.
>> 
>> A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
>> cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
>> you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
>> would also be nice.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Definitely not pointless - Toymotors is selling a lot of them - profit is
the point.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Dimitri sez:  Was thinking the same thing. Prius is a pointless turd.
>>
>
> Naa, not pointless.  It allows them to feel all pious and holier than
> thou...  That's the point of having one.
>
> (Gerry excepted)
>



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

You need to watch the whole episode‎. South Park Season 10 Episode 2. It's on 
Hulu. 
Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
  Original Message  
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 10:40 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Mountain Man
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

Rick wrote:
> "Smug"

WOW - sooo preachy!
I can't even decipher the point.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Rick wrote:
> "Smug"

WOW - sooo preachy!
I can't even decipher the point.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I understand the new models will come factory standard with BERNIE 2016 
badges permanently affixed.


--R (who TRIMMED HIS POST)



On 9/10/15 11:52 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

AUTOS:Toyota unveils a Prius that moves beyond 50 mpg with a sleeker design





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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 10/09/2015 11:21 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:

I still hate them on principle. Mostly because of their owners who seem to
exude a green righteousness.
___


And some who seem afraid to touch the pedal in case the gasoline engine 
might actually be needed and start up.
I almost ran over a Prius driven by an old white haired character who 
was going very slow and then came to a stop in the middle of an 
intersection on a left turn green arrow.
I was behind him trying to make the turn and he was almost bopped by an 
F150 for his trouble. Would have been my fault I suppose but it might 
have been worth it just to punt the jerk ouf of the way.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

I still hate them on principle. Mostly because of their owners who seem to
exude a green righteousness.
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in a hybrid, I just
wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine . . . . .

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I apologize - should be "Prius"
>
> Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The sensible system for a hybrid is what diesel locomotives use, a series 
hybrid where the diesel engine runs right in the sweet spot in its power band 
or not at all. The Chevy Volt is, as far as I know, the only series hybrid car 
on the market but its hindered by being a Chevy...
Pisten Bully makes a series hybrid snow grooming machine. Supposed to save fuel 
over the conventional type machine. I *think* the savings on that one come from 
powering the tracks directly with electric motors instead of hydraulics like 
the conventional units use. Considering the snowmobile club I'm affiliated with 
has a 1984 Pisten Bully (which shows no signs of dying) now I expect to get my 
hands on a hybrid unit around 2050...
-Curt
  From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 1:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters
   
I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in a hybrid, I just
wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine . . . . .

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I apologize - should be "Prius"
>
> Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.
>
>


-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Too smart to make economic sense you mean. The 1.9l engines in my Golf and 
Jetta barely weigh anything, they're teeny.
-Curt
  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 1:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters
   
Good point.  Probably too heavy to make economic sense...

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 1:48 PM, OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in a hybrid, I just
> wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine . . . . .
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I apologize - should be "Prius"
> >
> > Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I apologize - should be "Prius"

Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 10/09/2015 11:21 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I still hate them on principle. Mostly because of their owners who seem to
>> exude a green righteousness.
>> ___
>>
>>
>> And some who seem afraid to touch the pedal in case the gasoline engine
> might actually be needed and start up.
> I almost ran over a Prius driven by an old white haired character who was
> going very slow and then came to a stop in the middle of an intersection on
> a left turn green arrow.
> I was behind him trying to make the turn and he was almost bopped by an
> F150 for his trouble. Would have been my fault I suppose but it might have
> been worth it just to punt the jerk ouf of the way.
>
> RB
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Good point.  Probably too heavy to make economic sense...

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 1:48 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in a hybrid, I just
> wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine . . . . .
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I apologize - should be "Prius"
> >
> > Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

You mean this one? Interesting! Be great to have one. 
Gerry

2016 Mercedes-Benz E250 Bluetec
2.1 L, 4 cyl, Auto 7-spd, Diesel
EPA Fuel Economy
Combined: 33 MPG
City: 28 MPG
Highway: 42 MPG
Annual Fuel Cost*: $1,200
*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and current fuel 
prices.
Dealer price: $60,000 approx 
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2016-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E250-BlueTEC-4MATIC-Scranton-t58315_L30680

www.fueleconomy.gov/

versus

2016 Toyota Prius
1.8 L, 4 cyl, Auto (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline
EPA Fuel Economy
Combined: 42 MPG
City: 44 MPG
Highway: 40 MPG
Annual Fuel Cost*: $850
*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and current fuel 
prices.
Dealer price: $30,000 approx.
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext==true=AUTO=c25239=c25239=18501=NATIONWIDE=true=false=true

www.fueleconomy.gov/


Meade Dillon via Mercedes  wrote:

> I'll never forget the car review comparing a Mercedes E class diesel with a
> Prius, whereby the M-car returned essentially the same fuel consumption in
> far more comfort, safety, and class.  I am pretty sure that was with the V6
> diesel engine; now that we are getting the 4 cylinder in a Mercedes, should
> absolutely put that toada to shame.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus Database: 4409/10603 - Release Date: 09/09/15
> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, and I'll bet that real world mileage will be far better than the EPA 
figures, just like with current models.  Prius-beating fuel consumption, but 
with luxury and safety vice a hard buzzy ride.  Upfront cost is a little 
higher...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On September 10, 2015 5:30:19 PM EDT, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>You mean this one? Interesting! Be great to have one. 
>Gerry
>
>2016 Mercedes-Benz E250 Bluetec
>2.1 L, 4 cyl, Auto 7-spd, Diesel
>EPA Fuel Economy
>Combined: 33 MPG
>City: 28 MPG
>Highway: 42 MPG
>Annual Fuel Cost*: $1,200
>*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and
>current fuel prices.
>Dealer price: $60,000 approx 
>http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2016-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E250-BlueTEC-4MATIC-Scranton-t58315_L30680
>
>www.fueleconomy.gov/
>
>versus
>
>2016 Toyota Prius
>1.8 L, 4 cyl, Auto (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline
>EPA Fuel Economy
>Combined: 42 MPG
>City: 44 MPG
>Highway: 40 MPG
>Annual Fuel Cost*: $850
>*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and
>current fuel prices.
>Dealer price: $30,000 approx.
>http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext==true=AUTO=c25239=c25239=18501=NATIONWIDE=true=false=true
>
>www.fueleconomy.gov/
>
>
>Meade Dillon via Mercedes  wrote:
>
>> I'll never forget the car review comparing a Mercedes E class diesel
>with a
>> Prius, whereby the M-car returned essentially the same fuel
>consumption in
>> far more comfort, safety, and class.  I am pretty sure that was with
>the V6
>> diesel engine; now that we are getting the 4 cylinder in a Mercedes,
>should
>> absolutely put that toada to shame.
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus Database: 4409/10603 - Release Date:
>09/09/15
>> 
>
>
>-- 
>arche...@embarqmail.com 
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

Was thinking the same thing. Prius is a pointless turd.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2015, at 3:16 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'll never forget the car review comparing a Mercedes E class diesel with a
> Prius, whereby the M-car returned essentially the same fuel consumption in
> far more comfort, safety, and class.  I am pretty sure that was with the V6
> diesel engine; now that we are getting the 4 cylinder in a Mercedes, should
> absolutely put that toada to shame.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Dimitri sez:  Was thinking the same thing. Prius is a pointless turd.


Naa, not pointless.  It allows them to feel all pious and holier than 
thou...  That's the point of having one.


(Gerry excepted)

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎Jim sez :

>> I still hate them on principle. >>Mostly because of their owners >>who 
>> seem to
>> exude a green righteousness.

>I call them smugmobiles.

"Smug"

http://youtu.be/AnFAAdOBB1c
‎
Rick 


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I still hate them on principle. Mostly because of their owners who 
seem to

exude a green righteousness.


I call them smugmobiles.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

An escort diesel or a rabbit diesel would get 50 MPG.  A quantum/audi 
4000 turbodiesel would get 45 MPG fully loaded @70 MPH.  that is 40 
year old technology.




You mean this one? Interesting! Be great to have one.
Gerry

2016 Mercedes-Benz E250 Bluetec
2.1 L, 4 cyl, Auto 7-spd, Diesel
EPA Fuel Economy
Combined: 33 MPG
City: 28 MPG
Highway: 42 MPG
Annual Fuel Cost*: $1,200
*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and 
current fuel prices.

Dealer price: $60,000 approx
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2016-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E250-BlueTEC-4MATIC-Scranton-t58315_L30680

www.fueleconomy.gov/

versus

2016 Toyota Prius
1.8 L, 4 cyl, Auto (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline
EPA Fuel Economy
Combined: 42 MPG
City: 44 MPG
Highway: 40 MPG
Annual Fuel Cost*: $850
*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and 
current fuel prices.

Dealer price: $30,000 approx.
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext==true=AUTO=c25239=c25239=18501=NATIONWIDE=true=false=true

www.fueleconomy.gov/


Meade Dillon via Mercedes  wrote:


 I'll never forget the car review comparing a Mercedes E class diesel with a
 Prius, whereby the M-car returned essentially the same fuel consumption in
 far more comfort, safety, and class.  I am pretty sure that was with the V6
 diesel engine; now that we are getting the 4 cylinder in a Mercedes, should
 absolutely put that toada to shame.

 -
 Max
 Charleston SC
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 -
 No virus found in this message.
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--
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine


The strength of a diesel is at partial throttle, which is
not necessary in a series hybrid.  I think the _best_ series
hybrid would be a small turbine engine.  Turbines, gas,
and diesels are all approximately equally efficient at
full throttle.  Turbines suck at throttle response.  That
is not necessary in a battery charger in a series hybrid.
So, fixed-speed running in its sweet spot, that's a turbine.

A turbine would be really small, and doesn't need a liquid
cooling system.  (Just a little oil cooler.)  At fixed RPM
you could really quiet it as well.  Co-gen for cabin heat
would also be nice.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I'll never forget the car review comparing a Mercedes E class diesel with a
Prius, whereby the M-car returned essentially the same fuel consumption in
far more comfort, safety, and class.  I am pretty sure that was with the V6
diesel engine; now that we are getting the 4 cylinder in a Mercedes, should
absolutely put that toada to shame.

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[WILTON via Mercedes]

GM ruined the American Diesel market in late 70's with their "Diesel" engine 
cobbled from blocks barely good enough to combust gasoline reliably - tried 
to do it "on-the-cheap."  GM had been building some of the world's best 
Diesel engines for power generation, locomotives and long-distance trucks 
since mid-thirties, but they, suddenly, could not build one suitable for a 
passenger car.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "fmiser via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "fmiser" <fmi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters



> OK Don wrote:
>
> I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
> a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel
> engine . . . . .



Andrew wrote:

Good point.  Probably too heavy to make economic sense...


A diesel isn't necessarily heavy.  Cessna now sells the 182 with ONLY
a diesel cycle engine, and that is a market that is very
weight sensitive.

And the batteries are a much bigger weight penalty than the
engine.

I think it's probably marketing.  In the US, marketing tells
us diesels are for big trucks, wannabe big trucks, and hard
working light trucks only.

Silly marketing.

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> > OK Don wrote:
> >
> > I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in
> > a hybrid, I just wish they'd use a sensible Diesel
> > engine . . . . .

> Andrew wrote:
> 
> Good point.  Probably too heavy to make economic sense...

A diesel isn't necessarily heavy.  Cessna now sells the 182 with ONLY
a diesel cycle engine, and that is a market that is very
weight sensitive.

And the batteries are a much bigger weight penalty than the
engine.

I think it's probably marketing.  In the US, marketing tells
us diesels are for big trucks, wannabe big trucks, and hard
working light trucks only.

Silly marketing.

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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, I'd be a lot more for them if they'd use a Diesel engine.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "OK Don via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "OK Don" <okd...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters



I like the idea of having a back-up fossil fuel engine in a hybrid, I just
wish they'd use a sensible Diesel engine . . . . .

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I apologize - should be "Prius"

Anyway, I don't like the styling and would prefer an all-electric car.





--
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few 
who

learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It looks surprisingly like a Chevy Volt... ;)
Finally going to beat the mileage mark laid down by the gen 3 Jetta TDI... 
Actually the original Honda Insite probably holds the record for high mileage 
in the US anyway.
-Curt
  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel  
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 11:52 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] The demise pf Pruis h*ters
   
AUTOS:Toyota unveils a Prius that moves beyond 50 mpg with a sleeker design

Published: Thursday, September 10, 2015

In Japan in 1997, Toyota, at the time a medium-sized force in a U.S. car
market still dominated by Detroit's Big Three, launched the
first-generation Prius. It was the first mass-produced hybrid and a seminal
blueprint to a new type of car.

On Tuesday evening in Las Vegas, Toyota unveiled the latest iteration of
the car that helped move a middle-of-the-pack automaker in the United
States toward an automotive hegemony worldwide: the fourth-generation 2016
Prius, which will hit showrooms next year.

"For almost two decades, we've been selling Prius. We've changed the
industry with this car, and each generation we've made a little bit better
and a little bit better," Bill Fay, group vice president and general
manager of one of Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. divisions, said to a Las Vegas
crowd Tuesday night.
[image: New Prius]

Toyota introduces the fourth-generation Prius. Photo courtesy of Toyota.

The 2016 model is not simply an updated version, but a new car housed
within new bodywork and built on a new suspension and platform, among other
changes. The front, not unlike the high cheekbones of a runway model, is
more angular than the third-generation and the hatch and rear setup are
boxier than before.

The new car will average 10 percent better performance in combined fuel
economy than the third-generation vehicles, which average about 50 mpg,
Toyota said. It will also be the first vehicle to be produced worldwide
through the Toyota New Global Architecture system, a method designed to
save money on common car parts across the company's fleet.

John O'Dell, senior editor for alternative vehicles at Edmunds.com, who was
at the Las Vegas rollout, said Toyota officials confirmed the 10 percent
mpg improvement.

"I think they'll do better than that," he said while driving back from the
announcement. "I think they're under-promising."
Searching for a broader market

Gasoline-and-electric hybrids are mainstream now, O'Dell said, noting that
fears years ago -- such as the concern that drivers would have to spend
thousands of dollars to replace expensive batteries -- have faded away.

"A hybrid is a known commodity now," he said. "There's nothing scary, odd
or unusual about hybrids."

With this sleeker Prius, he said, Toyota is trying to tap into a new pool
of customers. "It's not a compliance car," he said, using the term for cars
manufactured solely to meet environmental regulations. "It's now a car for
everyone." O'Dell added: "It's going to be sold everywhere, and I think
[Toyota will] push hard everywhere."

Longer and wider than its predecessors, the fourth-generation model is
about an inch lower, too. The car's "lower center of gravity and a more
responsive suspension," Toyota said, will "dial up the driving excitement"
without "sacrificing ride quality and occupant comfort."

Critiques of the Prius line have long hinged upon the notion that drivers
forfeit looks, responsiveness, handling and overall performance for
eco-friendly fuel economy. Toyota is clearly aware of that criticism.
A 'no-compromise vehicle'

After the newly revealed model landed on the stage Tuesday -- it had been
suspended by cables many feet above in a quick-but-glitzy announcement -- a
voice came over the speakers.

"A striking new look, smarter technology and unrivaled fuel economy, all in
a package that's more fun to drive than ever," the voice said. "It will
challenge everything you know about hybrids." Fay added: "It's really a
no-compromise vehicle."

Despite a market in which consumers are flocking to light trucks and
heavier cars, due to lower gas prices and flagging demand for fuel-saving
motor vehicles, O'Dell predicted the car will likely silence naysayers (
*ClimateWire* ,
Sept. 8).

"It's always been a knock on the Prius that it's pretty numb," he said.
"This should end those criticisms."

Toyota, the second-largest automaker globally (behind Volkswagen AG and
ahead of General Motors Co.) and the third-largest nationally (behind GM
and Ford Motor Co.), is billing the new Prius as a partner for its
fuel-cell car, the Mirai.

In a statement yesterday, the company said the car "stands side by side
with its sibling, the hydrogen powered Mirai, poised to change the game yet
again." On sale in Japan, the Mirai is scheduled to be unveiled in
California this year.