Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Classic master cylinder problem. Re-sealing it might alone do the job, you don't know if the inside of the cyl is all rusty/nasty until you look. I have seen ones that failed after many years, that did _not_ have a bore problem. That may vary with your usage patterns, maintenance history, and maybe even local climate. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Just received my new ATE Master Cylinder from Gary for my 85 300D. $119.00 delivered to my front door in three days. My Indy ruined mine when I had him install rear ATE calipers and pads.(From Gary) He flushed system and renewed fluid while tearing up seals. :( They seem to figure out a way to keep me coming back. Probably should have done it myself but was feeling a bit lazy and he was working on an AC leak anyway. Oh well, it's only money Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.894.5505 On Jun 11, 2015, at 04:32 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Here you go, Randy. http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=b3tbpv45pvq2g4mclkt5ua2mmakeid=800016@Mercedesmodelid=1193666@300Dyear=1976cid=master cylinder@master cylindergid=1836@Brake Master Cylinder On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Randy wrote: It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. That is the classic symptom of master cylinder failing. Fluid getting past the main seals. Often, if you move the pedal hard and fast it will still catch and once there is pressure the seals usually seal. A slow, gentle press will allow the pedal to sink to the floor. If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? I failed to find a kit. But I did not check with Classic Center. And I have 123s, not 115s. In either case, where would one best look for parts? Rusty. Oh yeah. *sigh* I'll bet Dan will say a dealer. I would try to figure out the brand of the OEM (Bendix? ATE? Or is that just slaves?) and then use RockAuto, AutohauseAZ, FLAPs, etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Randy wrote: It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. That is the classic symptom of master cylinder failing. Fluid getting past the main seals. Often, if you move the pedal hard and fast it will still catch and once there is pressure the seals usually seal. A slow, gentle press will allow the pedal to sink to the floor. If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? I failed to find a kit. But I did not check with Classic Center. And I have 123s, not 115s. In either case, where would one best look for parts? Rusty. Oh yeah. *sigh* I'll bet Dan will say a dealer. I would try to figure out the brand of the OEM (Bendix? ATE? Or is that just slaves?) and then use RockAuto, AutohauseAZ, FLAPs, etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Here you go, Randy. http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=b3tbpv45pvq2g4mclkt5ua2mmakeid=800016@Mercedesmodelid=1193666@300Dyear=1976cid=master cylinder@master cylindergid=1836@Brake Master Cylinder On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Randy wrote: It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. That is the classic symptom of master cylinder failing. Fluid getting past the main seals. Often, if you move the pedal hard and fast it will still catch and once there is pressure the seals usually seal. A slow, gentle press will allow the pedal to sink to the floor. If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? I failed to find a kit. But I did not check with Classic Center. And I have 123s, not 115s. In either case, where would one best look for parts? Rusty. Oh yeah. *sigh* I'll bet Dan will say a dealer. I would try to figure out the brand of the OEM (Bendix? ATE? Or is that just slaves?) and then use RockAuto, AutohauseAZ, FLAPs, etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
What is the collective view on rebuilt units? If I could get a kit, I would have no qualms about putting it in but those days seem to be behind us. I guess it is the result of labour costs in the shops. People are not willing to pay the cost of having kits installed - just faster and cheaper to throw in a new or rebuilt unit even if it is not as good as the original. I would guess, given the car is close to 40 years old that it is just the rubber giving up but I suppose we would not know if the bore was corroded by water in the brake fluid eating away at it over time unless we opened it up first. That AutohausAZ unit claims it is new oem but with the grommets is pushing $300 US and with our dollar the way it is, that will run closer to $400 Cdn plus 13% tax at the border. Ugh! Cannot complain too much as I have had the car about 10 years and have done little or nothing to it. Have not driven it all that far either but it has been reliable to date. RB On 11/06/2015 3:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote: Randy wrote: It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. That is the classic symptom of master cylinder failing. Fluid getting past the main seals. Often, if you move the pedal hard and fast it will still catch and once there is pressure the seals usually seal. A slow, gentle press will allow the pedal to sink to the floor. If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? I failed to find a kit. But I did not check with Classic Center. And I have 123s, not 115s. In either case, where would one best look for parts? Rusty. Oh yeah. *sigh* I'll bet Dan will say a dealer. I would try to figure out the brand of the OEM (Bendix? ATE? Or is that just slaves?) and then use RockAuto, AutohauseAZ, FLAPs, etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
I got a reman for like $40 for the 123. Not hard to put in, at that price you can go through a bunch, though not sure why a reman would not work, I think they just machine the bore and put in a slightly larger plunger or o-rings, nothing too magic about that. The one I got had a lifetime warranty, so cheap enough. --R On 6/11/15 5:36 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the collective view on rebuilt units? If I could get a kit, I would have no qualms about putting it in but those days seem to be behind us. I guess it is the result of labour costs in the shops. People are not willing to pay the cost of having kits installed - just faster and cheaper to throw in a new or rebuilt unit even if it is not as good as the original. I would guess, given the car is close to 40 years old that it is just the rubber giving up but I suppose we would not know if the bore was corroded by water in the brake fluid eating away at it over time unless we opened it up first. That AutohausAZ unit claims it is new oem but with the grommets is pushing $300 US and with our dollar the way it is, that will run closer to $400 Cdn plus 13% tax at the border. Ugh! Cannot complain too much as I have had the car about 10 years and have done little or nothing to it. Have not driven it all that far either but it has been reliable to date. RB On 11/06/2015 3:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote: Randy wrote: It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. That is the classic symptom of master cylinder failing. Fluid getting past the main seals. Often, if you move the pedal hard and fast it will still catch and once there is pressure the seals usually seal. A slow, gentle press will allow the pedal to sink to the floor. If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? I failed to find a kit. But I did not check with Classic Center. And I have 123s, not 115s. In either case, where would one best look for parts? Rusty. Oh yeah. *sigh* I'll bet Dan will say a dealer. I would try to figure out the brand of the OEM (Bendix? ATE? Or is that just slaves?) and then use RockAuto, AutohauseAZ, FLAPs, etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
What is the collective view on rebuilt units? If I could get a kit, I would have no qualms about putting it in but those days seem to be behind us. I guess it is the result of labour costs in the shops. People are not willing to pay the cost of having kits installed - just faster and cheaper to throw in a new or rebuilt unit even if it is not as good as the original. I would guess, given the car is close to 40 years old that it is just the rubber giving up but I suppose we would not know if the bore was corroded by water in the brake fluid eating away at it over time unless we opened it up first. That AutohausAZ unit claims it is new oem but with the grommets is pushing $300 US and with our dollar the way it is, that will run closer to $400 Cdn plus 13% tax at the border. Ugh! Cannot complain too much as I have had the car about 10 years and have done little or nothing to it. Have not driven it all that far either but it has been reliable to date. RB IMHE: get new or reman. If you try to put in new parts (cups), you find a rusty bore, crusted with crap. Then if you clean it up, you end up with a pitted bore and a leaky MC. The alternative is to bore it and put in a sleeve of SS or brass, but then it costs more than a new MC in every case I have looked at. If you had your own machine shop and time, I'd sleeve em. I don't, so I don't. I think the last one I bought was a beck arnley from FLAPS. I have one from cRock auto, but it has not been installed yet. Looks ok. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
I feel like rebuilding a very old brake MC like yours is at best going to be hit or miss, theres no telling how much corrosion is in there. I bet theres no oversized cups or sleeves available so after you hone you might still need to buy a replacement anyway... For this I'd say buy a rebuilt, its not worth farting around rebuilding it yourself. -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:36 PM Subject: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City Winnipeg has rivers going north south - The Red and east west - The Assiniboine so I thought that sort of fit. My good old 76 115 300D had a hiccup this morning, which is totally unlike it. I was at a light when the car creeped ahead. I thought I had a senior moment and had failed to keep my foot firmly planted on the brake. I stepped harder and it sat there for the duration of the red light, but on the next block, I stepped on the brake pedal and it essentially sank to the floor. Not a good thing in traffic. I drove it the few blocks home at lunch and put it back in the garage but something is wrong. It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. I have looked where it was parked and do not see any puddles of fluid. The resevoir does not look to be down. I shall have to look a bit closer to see if there is something leaking. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. Anyone have a better conclusion based upon the symptoms? If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? In either case, where would one best look for parts? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Oh and I forgot to mention since this is a car that sits a lot when was the last time you changed the brake fluid? -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:36 PM Subject: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City Winnipeg has rivers going north south - The Red and east west - The Assiniboine so I thought that sort of fit. My good old 76 115 300D had a hiccup this morning, which is totally unlike it. I was at a light when the car creeped ahead. I thought I had a senior moment and had failed to keep my foot firmly planted on the brake. I stepped harder and it sat there for the duration of the red light, but on the next block, I stepped on the brake pedal and it essentially sank to the floor. Not a good thing in traffic. I drove it the few blocks home at lunch and put it back in the garage but something is wrong. It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. I have looked where it was parked and do not see any puddles of fluid. The resevoir does not look to be down. I shall have to look a bit closer to see if there is something leaking. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. Anyone have a better conclusion based upon the symptoms? If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? In either case, where would one best look for parts? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Randy, as you correctly surmised, these symptoms indicate a failed (interlally leaking) master cylinder. Fortunately, the part is not expensive and widely available, maybe even for a W115. On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Winnipeg has rivers going north south - The Red and east west - The Assiniboine so I thought that sort of fit. My good old 76 115 300D had a hiccup this morning, which is totally unlike it. I was at a light when the car creeped ahead. I thought I had a senior moment and had failed to keep my foot firmly planted on the brake. I stepped harder and it sat there for the duration of the red light, but on the next block, I stepped on the brake pedal and it essentially sank to the floor. Not a good thing in traffic. I drove it the few blocks home at lunch and put it back in the garage but something is wrong. It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. I have looked where it was parked and do not see any puddles of fluid. The resevoir does not look to be down. I shall have to look a bit closer to see if there is something leaking. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. Anyone have a better conclusion based upon the symptoms? If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? In either case, where would one best look for parts? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
Definitely master cylinder failure symptoms. Fluid is leaking past the cups on the piston. Dan On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:36 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Winnipeg has rivers going north south - The Red and east west - The Assiniboine so I thought that sort of fit. My good old 76 115 300D had a hiccup this morning, which is totally unlike it. I was at a light when the car creeped ahead. I thought I had a senior moment and had failed to keep my foot firmly planted on the brake. I stepped harder and it sat there for the duration of the red light, but on the next block, I stepped on the brake pedal and it essentially sank to the floor. Not a good thing in traffic. I drove it the few blocks home at lunch and put it back in the garage but something is wrong. It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. I have looked where it was parked and do not see any puddles of fluid. The resevoir does not look to be down. I shall have to look a bit closer to see if there is something leaking. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. Anyone have a better conclusion based upon the symptoms? If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? In either case, where would one best look for parts? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
I recall a remanufactured MC I got for the 123 was only about $40 from the FLAPS and was an easy swap except getting those fittings attached to the hard lines lined up to catch the threads on it was a bugger. Not a lot of slop in the hard lines to wiggle the fitting around. Then you have to do the whole bleeding thing which is Not Fun in my view. --R On 6/11/15 3:14 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Definitely master cylinder failure symptoms. Fluid is leaking past the cups on the piston. Dan On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:36 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Winnipeg has rivers going north south - The Red and east west - The Assiniboine so I thought that sort of fit. My good old 76 115 300D had a hiccup this morning, which is totally unlike it. I was at a light when the car creeped ahead. I thought I had a senior moment and had failed to keep my foot firmly planted on the brake. I stepped harder and it sat there for the duration of the red light, but on the next block, I stepped on the brake pedal and it essentially sank to the floor. Not a good thing in traffic. I drove it the few blocks home at lunch and put it back in the garage but something is wrong. It brakes but not very hard and pumping the pedal does not all that much to make it better. It feels like when one presses on the pedal while another bleeds the brakes. It just slowly descends until close to the floor. I have looked where it was parked and do not see any puddles of fluid. The resevoir does not look to be down. I shall have to look a bit closer to see if there is something leaking. If not, then I suspect the master cylinder is leaking internally. Anyone have a better conclusion based upon the symptoms? If so, is there a kit to repair or am I compelled to replace the whole thing? In either case, where would one best look for parts? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015, at 03:27 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: I recall a remanufactured MC I got for the 123 was only about $40 from the FLAPS and was an easy swap except getting those fittings attached to the hard lines lined up to catch the threads on it was a bugger. Not a lot of slop in the hard lines to wiggle the fitting around. Then you have to do the whole bleeding thing which is Not Fun in my view. Pressure bleeder makes the job *almost* fun. At least in comparison to any other method I've tried. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
I recall a remanufactured MC I got for the 123 was only about $40 from the FLAPS and was an easy swap except getting those fittings attached to the hard lines lined up to catch the threads on it was a bugger. Not a lot of slop in the hard lines to wiggle the fitting around. Then you have to do the whole bleeding thing which is Not Fun in my view. --R If you bench bleed the MC, then the rest is simply gravity. One MC I bought had plastic fittings and hose to bench bleed. I kept that and reused it many times. Back when junkyards had MBs, I could use the ends of old brake lines from the junkers. Hard to find now. Or the pressure bleeder works if you blow out all the old fluid/crap first. I don't like pushing gunk up into the new MC. That leads to high failure. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] trouble right here in River City
DON'T use DOT3 BRAKE FLUID! Plan on buying a quart of DOT4 fluid and thoroughly flushing the lines and calipers. Traditionally, Castrol LMA/GT fluid was what to use, but it has become near unobtanium. You can consider switching to real DOT5 Silicone fluid, but it is scarce too. They want to peddle this DOT4/5 stuff that is neither DOT4 nor DOT5, and I have heard no reports on it, therefore I don't want to use it. The DOT 5 conversions I have done work well, except that it is very hard to get all the water/fluid/gunk out of the calipers. Definitely master cylinder failure symptoms. Fluid is leaking past the cups on the piston. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
