[MBZ] 240D won't start-- Vacuum??
Okay.. I rolled my '81 240D off the ramps yesterday, after changing the rear diff fluid (boy-- I bet THAT stuff was there since the Reagan Administration!).. It stalled when it came off the ramps, and refuses to restart.. IN THE LAST WEEK-- I replaced the passenger rear window (as some vandal put a rock thru it!). Also last week, I changed the transmission fluid (including draining the TC) and put up a new filter.. I also put up a new starter-- because the old one wasn't always engaging.. (New one works fine, and I had it bench tested at Autozone BEFORE I put it up) Anyway-- The car has historically HAD a vac leak-- to shut it off, you turned the key, and locked the driver's door, and it would stumble out.. The central locks 'sorta' worked, but not meaningfully-- it would take probably a minute of driving, and not all of the cylinders would suck down on any given day.. It seemed to VARY from day to day which one wouldn't work-- and it apparently quickly lost 'reserve' as I don't think I ever successfully locked all the doors from the key (ignition off). Okay... What I know is that I have a car with a known vacuum issue, that realistically had that system manipulated and now it won't start.. ..Everything appears connected, so I don't see an easy fix. As I look under the hood, I see one 'main' vac line-- going straight to the brake booster. There are two tees off of that. One goes to the firewall, where it branches three times, with the middle branch having what appears to be a check valve, then branching twice, before entering the firewall. All 5 of those 'branches' appear color coded-- which will hopefully aid what I'm going to ask.. Two appear yellow (the last branches, with the check valve) there's a brown and blue one, a black one (that go to the IP) etc.. The second one goes 'on top' of the valve cover to what appears to be some sort of valve. It has one branch capped off, and a tee with what appears to be another check valve on one branch.. These lead to black and black and brown striped leads that, again, go to the IP. What I'm hoping to do-- is isolate out the central locking 'branch' or branches-- to see if I can't get the car started.. Oh-- since it wasn't starting, and I'd planned on replacing both fuel filters-- that is done, I filled both with ATF, as I'd previously heard that it's a good clean and lube for the IP.. I tried cracking the injectors, to reprime those-- and found little if any fuel coming out-- leading me to believe the IP isn't getting sufficient vaccuum to 'spray..' I looked under the hood of my '84 300SD.. UH-- the engine looks sort of familiar, but the vac system is wholly different, with exception of 4 vac lines leading into the IP.. (So that wasn't a help!!) SO-- anyone who can direct me to a color code, or tell me which goes to what would be doing me an incredible service.. I considered hooking a vac gauge to one of the tees, while I cranked, to make sure the vac pump itself hadn't failed.. In my VW diesels-- vac pump failure meant brake effort worthy of stopping a downhill speeding overloaded truck.. The breaking in the 240D has NEVER shown that, previously.. The vac pump looks to be a lot harder to get out, on this engine, than the VW (one bolt on the top of the motor!) so I'm really hoping that's not the case.. Okay-- I'll shut up now! AJ
Re: [MBZ] 240D won't start-- Vacuum??
Pull-start it. See the owner's manual for the how-to-do. Works great and the car seems to shake off the cobwebs. On 4/22/07, AJ RN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay.. I rolled my '81 240D off the ramps yesterday, after changing the rear diff fluid (boy-- I bet THAT stuff was there since the Reagan Administration!).. It stalled when it came off the ramps, and refuses to restart.. IN THE LAST WEEK-- I replaced the passenger rear window (as some vandal put a rock thru it!). Also last week, I changed the transmission fluid (including draining the TC) and put up a new filter.. I also put up a new starter-- because the old one wasn't always engaging.. (New one works fine, and I had it bench tested at Autozone BEFORE I put it up) Anyway-- The car has historically HAD a vac leak-- to shut it off, you turned the key, and locked the driver's door, and it would stumble out.. The central locks 'sorta' worked, but not meaningfully-- it would take probably a minute of driving, and not all of the cylinders would suck down on any given day.. It seemed to VARY from day to day which one wouldn't work-- and it apparently quickly lost 'reserve' as I don't think I ever successfully locked all the doors from the key (ignition off). Okay... What I know is that I have a car with a known vacuum issue, that realistically had that system manipulated and now it won't start.. ..Everything appears connected, so I don't see an easy fix. As I look under the hood, I see one 'main' vac line-- going straight to the brake booster. There are two tees off of that. One goes to the firewall, where it branches three times, with the middle branch having what appears to be a check valve, then branching twice, before entering the firewall. All 5 of those 'branches' appear color coded-- which will hopefully aid what I'm going to ask.. Two appear yellow (the last branches, with the check valve) there's a brown and blue one, a black one (that go to the IP) etc.. The second one goes 'on top' of the valve cover to what appears to be some sort of valve. It has one branch capped off, and a tee with what appears to be another check valve on one branch.. These lead to black and black and brown striped leads that, again, go to the IP. What I'm hoping to do-- is isolate out the central locking 'branch' or branches-- to see if I can't get the car started.. Oh-- since it wasn't starting, and I'd planned on replacing both fuel filters-- that is done, I filled both with ATF, as I'd previously heard that it's a good clean and lube for the IP.. I tried cracking the injectors, to reprime those-- and found little if any fuel coming out-- leading me to believe the IP isn't getting sufficient vaccuum to 'spray..' I looked under the hood of my '84 300SD.. UH-- the engine looks sort of familiar, but the vac system is wholly different, with exception of 4 vac lines leading into the IP.. (So that wasn't a help!!) SO-- anyone who can direct me to a color code, or tell me which goes to what would be doing me an incredible service.. I considered hooking a vac gauge to one of the tees, while I cranked, to make sure the vac pump itself hadn't failed.. In my VW diesels-- vac pump failure meant brake effort worthy of stopping a downhill speeding overloaded truck.. The breaking in the 240D has NEVER shown that, previously.. The vac pump looks to be a lot harder to get out, on this engine, than the VW (one bolt on the top of the motor!) so I'm really hoping that's not the case.. Okay-- I'll shut up now! AJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don The Crazy Coastie http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org
Re: [MBZ] 240D won't start-- Vacuum??
Eh, lack of vac only means you have to use the stop lever on the IP to shut it off. Make sure the stop lever is up. However, I suspect you have a fuel leak and the IP has gotten full of air, or you shook a whole lotta crud loose in the tank and the suction line is clogged now. To check all of this, locate the hand priming pump on the IP -- it's beside the lift pump where the fuel lines go. If it's the screw down to lock type, I'm betting when you unscrew it and pump it you get fuel squirting out the top of the tube onto your hand. This means the hand pump is shot, and you've pulled a big slug of air into your fuel filter and IP. Buy the new thumb pump (sealed, no screw down cap) and replace it, pump a couple million times until you get fuel rolling out the return line form the filter and can hear the pressure relief valve hiss. This will take a V E R Y L O N G time, the pump is small and the filter is large. If the pump stays down (or the screw down type doesn't in fact leak but is hard to pull back up), GENTLY blow some compressed air down the suction line to blow the crud off the tank screen. It will clog again pretty soon, so you need to plan to replace the screen and get the tank properly cleaned. It's full of algae -- actually filamentous bacteria that live on the bottom of the tank in the water that collects there. Peter
Re: [MBZ] 240D won't start-- Vacuum??
you could just turn off the vac system by sticking a golf tee in at the Y-connection (maybe it's a Y, can't recall properly) and just disabling the vacuum locks while you're trying to get it started. try fresh fuel in the filters and a valve adjustment, as well as a fresh(er) battery. and be sure to check (and replace) all the old fuses. On 4/22/07, AJ RN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay.. I rolled my '81 240D off the ramps yesterday, after changing the rear diff fluid (boy-- I bet THAT stuff was there since the Reagan Administration!).. It stalled when it came off the ramps, and refuses to restart.. IN THE LAST WEEK-- I replaced the passenger rear window (as some vandal put a rock thru it!). Also last week, I changed the transmission fluid (including draining the TC) and put up a new filter.. I also put up a new starter-- because the old one wasn't always engaging.. (New one works fine, and I had it bench tested at Autozone BEFORE I put it up) Anyway-- The car has historically HAD a vac leak-- to shut it off, you turned the key, and locked the driver's door, and it would stumble out.. The central locks 'sorta' worked, but not meaningfully-- it would take probably a minute of driving, and not all of the cylinders would suck down on any given day.. It seemed to VARY from day to day which one wouldn't work-- and it apparently quickly lost 'reserve' as I don't think I ever successfully locked all the doors from the key (ignition off). Okay... What I know is that I have a car with a known vacuum issue, that realistically had that system manipulated and now it won't start.. ..Everything appears connected, so I don't see an easy fix. As I look under the hood, I see one 'main' vac line-- going straight to the brake booster. There are two tees off of that. One goes to the firewall, where it branches three times, with the middle branch having what appears to be a check valve, then branching twice, before entering the firewall. All 5 of those 'branches' appear color coded-- which will hopefully aid what I'm going to ask.. Two appear yellow (the last branches, with the check valve) there's a brown and blue one, a black one (that go to the IP) etc.. The second one goes 'on top' of the valve cover to what appears to be some sort of valve. It has one branch capped off, and a tee with what appears to be another check valve on one branch.. These lead to black and black and brown striped leads that, again, go to the IP. What I'm hoping to do-- is isolate out the central locking 'branch' or branches-- to see if I can't get the car started.. Oh-- since it wasn't starting, and I'd planned on replacing both fuel filters-- that is done, I filled both with ATF, as I'd previously heard that it's a good clean and lube for the IP.. I tried cracking the injectors, to reprime those-- and found little if any fuel coming out-- leading me to believe the IP isn't getting sufficient vaccuum to 'spray..' I looked under the hood of my '84 300SD.. UH-- the engine looks sort of familiar, but the vac system is wholly different, with exception of 4 vac lines leading into the IP.. (So that wasn't a help!!) SO-- anyone who can direct me to a color code, or tell me which goes to what would be doing me an incredible service.. I considered hooking a vac gauge to one of the tees, while I cranked, to make sure the vac pump itself hadn't failed.. In my VW diesels-- vac pump failure meant brake effort worthy of stopping a downhill speeding overloaded truck.. The breaking in the 240D has NEVER shown that, previously.. The vac pump looks to be a lot harder to get out, on this engine, than the VW (one bolt on the top of the motor!) so I'm really hoping that's not the case.. Okay-- I'll shut up now! AJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sunil Hari 1992 300D 2.5T - 290Kmi - for sale [EMAIL PROTECTED] 513-205-7474
Re: [MBZ] 240D won't start-- Vacuum??
It stalled when it came off the ramps, and refuses to restart.. My guess is that you have a cracked fuel line, and being up at a weird angle stressed things enough to let air into the lines. You need a session with the primer pump, and should probably expect to do some sleuthing looking for small leaks in the fuel lines. appear yellow (the last branches, with the check valve) there's a brown and blue one, The yellow ones are the locks. One to the vacuum tank, one off to the valve in the door. The brown/blue one is the key shutoff. Red is heater valve (if you have such), green is AC flaps. Blue is coupe seatback locks. Black is anything left, like cruise, tranny, vents, etc. Just hook the brown/blue one up to the tap and let the others suck air. (They won't!) Should make quite a difference to the shutoff time of the car. If your brakes are fine it is almost always a leaking actuator, usually in the door system, sometimes in the AC flaps. Rarely elsewhere, though not unheard of. -- Jim
