Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Electric vehicles ... exist to indulge the emasculated pussies who drive them.

Bah.  _Steam_ is what real men drive.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Electric vehicles have both pros and cons but at the heart of it they all share 
one defining quality - that they exist to indulge the emasculated pussies who 
drive them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2021, at 3:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There has to be another, non-polluting way. That will not be allowed.
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:31 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Great idea, except for the huge cloud of toxic emissions created by burning
>> composite materials, all on the HAZMAT list.
>> OOps !
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 9:21 AM OK Don via Mercedes >> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> You could recycle the blades by burning them to power a steam generator -
>>> get more electricity out of them.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:19 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
> Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and
>> run
 it again.
 
 Last I heard, carbon burns too.  Easily, in fact.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

There has to be another, non-polluting way. That will not be allowed.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:31 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Great idea, except for the huge cloud of toxic emissions created by burning
> composite materials, all on the HAZMAT list.
> OOps !
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 9:21 AM OK Don via Mercedes  >
> wrote:
>
> > You could recycle the blades by burning them to power a steam generator -
> > get more electricity out of them.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:19 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and
> run
> > > it again.
> > >
> > > Last I heard, carbon burns too.  Easily, in fact.
> > >
> > > -- Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> > Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Great idea, except for the huge cloud of toxic emissions created by burning
composite materials, all on the HAZMAT list.
OOps !

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 9:21 AM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> You could recycle the blades by burning them to power a steam generator -
> get more electricity out of them.
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:19 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > > Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and run
> > it again.
> >
> > Last I heard, carbon burns too.  Easily, in fact.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You could recycle the blades by burning them to power a steam generator -
get more electricity out of them.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:19 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> > Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and run
> it again.
>
> Last I heard, carbon burns too.  Easily, in fact.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I give Tesla credit for showing the market that an EV didn't have to look like 
a comic book car or drive like a glorified golf cart and could have a range 
that might actually cover ones needs on most days. I wish they hadn't gotten so 
distracted with self-driving technology and had just continuted to build 
good-looking usable cars.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:
> > I thought the "problem" with EVs was the loss of industry jobs due to too
> > few moving parts and not enough labor required to repair/maintain them.
> 
> If it weren't for the problem of batteries, the IC engine would never have
> beaten electric in the first place.  The problem continues.  Overall, electric
> vehicles are simpler, cheaper, and more reliable.
> 
> Unless, of course, vehicles in general have turned into video games that
> reward you with a cookie ^H^H^H^H^H^H trip when you 'win'.  Which
> they have.
> 
> Don't look at a Tesla as a technology exemplar.  Look at a Baker instead.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and run it 
> again.

Last I heard, carbon burns too.  Easily, in fact.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I thought the "problem" with EVs was the loss of industry jobs due to too
> few moving parts and not enough labor required to repair/maintain them.

If it weren't for the problem of batteries, the IC engine would never have
beaten electric in the first place.  The problem continues.  Overall, electric
vehicles are simpler, cheaper, and more reliable.

Unless, of course, vehicles in general have turned into video games that
reward you with a cookie ^H^H^H^H^H^H trip when you 'win'.  Which
they have.

Don't look at a Tesla as a technology exemplar.  Look at a Baker instead.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Green States like Wyoming, Texas, and Oklahoma?

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 8:55 PM Clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The issue on windmills are the blades.  Not useful for anything, as they
> are fiberglass or composite and hard to make use of at end of life.  Maybe
> shoring up slopes or as landfill.  Could be useful as housing (living
> inside) given the rapidly rising price for homes in Green states where the
> blades could end up.
>
> Clay
>
>
> inter urinas et faeces nascimur
>
> > On Sep 9, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Who says they can't be recycled?
> > Lithium batteries are very recyclable, PVs are mostly silica with a thin
> layer of metal, also very recyclable and they don't really wear out. Even
> after their 30 year "lifespan" they still produce electricity, just less of
> it.
> > Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) metal is pretty
> much completely recyclable. As recyclable as a car anyway...
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:02:48 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> > (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels that can't
> be recycled...
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Clay via Mercedes]

The issue on windmills are the blades.  Not useful for anything, as they are 
fiberglass or composite and hard to make use of at end of life.  Maybe shoring 
up slopes or as landfill.  Could be useful as housing (living inside) given the 
rapidly rising price for homes in Green states where the blades could end up.

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Who says they can't be recycled? 
> Lithium batteries are very recyclable, PVs are mostly silica with a thin 
> layer of metal, also very recyclable and they don't really wear out. Even 
> after their 30 year "lifespan" they still produce electricity, just less of 
> it.
> Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) metal is pretty much 
> completely recyclable. As recyclable as a car anyway...
> -Curt
> 
>On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:02:48 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via 
> Mercedes  wrote:  
> (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels that can't be 
> recycled...


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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I agree, this "I can check it from my phone" is just stupid. If you can't be 
bothered to set your EV charger at the charger, which you had to plug in 
anyway, you kind of deserve to get hacked...
-Curt

On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:33:10 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Like most industrial devices, EV chargers should probably not be connected to 
the internet.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, at 3:27 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
> https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Major-Problem-With-EVs-No-One-Is-Talking-About.html
> 
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Like most industrial devices, EV chargers should probably not be connected to 
the internet.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, at 3:27 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
> https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Major-Problem-With-EVs-No-One-Is-Talking-About.html
> 
> 
> Rick
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

The fiberglass blades have finite life spans (stress fatigue) and are 
landfilled on a regular basis.  A lot of nasty stuff goes into making 
them too, then they will last a few thousand years in a landfill or 
stacked somewhere.



On 9/9/21 3:12 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) 


--
--FT

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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Major-Problem-With-EVs-No-One-Is-Talking-About.html


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Carbon fiber is remember, carbon. They burn the resin off of it and run it 
again.
Concrete gets used in every house and building are you suggesting those 
constructions get a pass? How many yards of concrete are used in even a tiny 
refinery? Those get regularly rebuilt too.

-Curt

On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:21:01 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I thought the big windmill blades were carbon-fibre/composite material? I 
don't know if that's readily recyclable. They also have big concrete footings 
and concrete production is a big CO2 emitter.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, at 3:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Who says they can't be recycled? 
> Lithium batteries are very recyclable, PVs are mostly silica with a thin 
> layer of metal, also very recyclable and they don't really wear out. Even 
> after their 30 year "lifespan" they still produce electricity, just less of 
> it.
> Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) metal is pretty much 
> completely recyclable. As recyclable as a car anyway...
> -Curt
> 
>    On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:02:48 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via 
>Mercedes  wrote:  
> (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels that can't be 
> recycled...
>  
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I thought the big windmill blades were carbon-fibre/composite material? I don't 
know if that's readily recyclable. They also have big concrete footings and 
concrete production is a big CO2 emitter.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, at 3:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Who says they can't be recycled? 
> Lithium batteries are very recyclable, PVs are mostly silica with a thin 
> layer of metal, also very recyclable and they don't really wear out. Even 
> after their 30 year "lifespan" they still produce electricity, just less of 
> it.
> Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) metal is pretty much 
> completely recyclable. As recyclable as a car anyway...
> -Curt
> 
> On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:02:48 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via 
> Mercedes  wrote:  
> (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels that can't be 
> recycled...
>  
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy theory to imagine that the automakers 
are absolutely salivating over "green" vehicle trends and mandates that will 
force *everyone* to buy new cars.

That said, I don't much buy into the idea that GM, big oil, and tire companies 
killed passenger rail and public transit. I don't doubt that they were all 
marketing hard for private cars, but the people *wanted* them also. I've lived 
in and visited places where public transit works well, and I'd still want to 
own a car because buses and trains don't go *everwhere* at any time you might 
want to go. That's the appeal of the personal vehicle. I also much prefer a 
suburban or rural home to living in a shoebox in a densely populated city 
center (I've experienced all of that too).


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, at 3:02 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
> There seems to be plenty of child slave labor in Africa to mine the 
> minerals needed for batteries and such, and the Chinese are 
> well-positioned to get plenty of minerals and slave labor from the 
> Tollybahns, so "we" should be good on that front for awhile...  and the 
> Wokesters will be able to fl good about driving an EV, because, 
> you know, saving the planet while ignoring that other unpleasant stuff...
> 
> I know this verges on the political, but in fact the whole car industry 
> is an extremely political kickball and has been since the 50s when the 
> oil companies, the tire manufacturers, the auto (and ancillary 
> materials) manufacturers transitioning from war materiel, housing 
> developers, and the road builders, supported whole-heartedly by advert 
> agencies and the gummint convinced the populace that moving to the 
> ex-urbs and driving big shiny new cars was the Thing To Do. And today 
> the oil companies are transitioning in some ways to "renewable" 
> resources (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels 
> that can't be recycled... and the external costs of resource extraction 
> and operations) to also Save the Planet (and because trial lawyers and 
> politicians also find them a convenient target for a variety of reasons).
> 
> If you haven't study up on this history, a lot of it actually got 
> started when US manufacturers and gummint types toured Nazi Germany back 
> in the 30s and saw the autobahns and the auto industry there (championed 
> of course by Herr Hitler) and sought to emulate it in the US (and the 
> interstate highway system was a direct result in the 50s of the Nazi 
> roads schemes of the 30s. Ike knew all about that).  It's all quite 
> fascinating to look back on the marketing manipulation, giving people 
> something they didn't know at that point they needed! And of course they 
> needed to spend a lot of money on Stuff to get there...
> 
> Cars are one of the most "political" things in society, any discussions 
> around them are also inevitably "political."  This Benz AMG stuff is 
> directly tied to German gummint policies against cars in general and 
> petroleum-based fuels that are now manifesting elsewhere, including the 
> USA.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out, in particular 
> around our old "clunkers."
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 9/9/21 2:37 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > I thought the "problem" with EVs was the loss of industry jobs due to 
> > too few moving parts and not enough labor required to repair/maintain 
> > them.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:32 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Moving toward electron-powered cars it looks like.  More
> > expensive, more
> > complex, more problematic and inclined to fail with huge repair
> > costs...
> >
> > https://jalopnik.com/amg-is-downsizing-the-cheap-stuff-1847636714
> > 
> >
> > -- 
> > --FT
> >
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> >
> -- 
> --FT
> 
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Who says they can't be recycled? 
Lithium batteries are very recyclable, PVs are mostly silica with a thin layer 
of metal, also very recyclable and they don't really wear out. Even after their 
30 year "lifespan" they still produce electricity, just less of it.
Windmills are almost completely metal (by weight anyway) metal is pretty much 
completely recyclable. As recyclable as a car anyway...
-Curt

On Thursday, September 9, 2021, 03:02:48 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
(never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels that can't be 
recycled...
 
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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

There seems to be plenty of child slave labor in Africa to mine the 
minerals needed for batteries and such, and the Chinese are 
well-positioned to get plenty of minerals and slave labor from the 
Tollybahns, so "we" should be good on that front for awhile...  and the 
Wokesters will be able to fl good about driving an EV, because, 
you know, saving the planet while ignoring that other unpleasant stuff...


I know this verges on the political, but in fact the whole car industry 
is an extremely political kickball and has been since the 50s when the 
oil companies, the tire manufacturers, the auto (and ancillary 
materials) manufacturers transitioning from war materiel, housing 
developers, and the road builders, supported whole-heartedly by advert 
agencies and the gummint convinced the populace that moving to the 
ex-urbs and driving big shiny new cars was the Thing To Do. And today 
the oil companies are transitioning in some ways to "renewable" 
resources (never mind those batteries and wind mills and solar panels 
that can't be recycled... and the external costs of resource extraction 
and operations) to also Save the Planet (and because trial lawyers and 
politicians also find them a convenient target for a variety of reasons).


If you haven't study up on this history, a lot of it actually got 
started when US manufacturers and gummint types toured Nazi Germany back 
in the 30s and saw the autobahns and the auto industry there (championed 
of course by Herr Hitler) and sought to emulate it in the US (and the 
interstate highway system was a direct result in the 50s of the Nazi 
roads schemes of the 30s. Ike knew all about that).  It's all quite 
fascinating to look back on the marketing manipulation, giving people 
something they didn't know at that point they needed! And of course they 
needed to spend a lot of money on Stuff to get there...


Cars are one of the most "political" things in society, any discussions 
around them are also inevitably "political."  This Benz AMG stuff is 
directly tied to German gummint policies against cars in general and 
petroleum-based fuels that are now manifesting elsewhere, including the 
USA.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out, in particular 
around our old "clunkers."


--FT

On 9/9/21 2:37 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
I thought the "problem" with EVs was the loss of industry jobs due to 
too few moving parts and not enough labor required to repair/maintain 
them.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:32 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:


Moving toward electron-powered cars it looks like.  More
expensive, more
complex, more problematic and inclined to fail with huge repair
costs...

https://jalopnik.com/amg-is-downsizing-the-cheap-stuff-1847636714


-- 
--FT


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--FT

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Re: [MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I thought the "problem" with EVs was the loss of industry jobs due to too
few moving parts and not enough labor required to repair/maintain them.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:32 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Moving toward electron-powered cars it looks like.  More expensive, more
> complex, more problematic and inclined to fail with huge repair costs...
>
> https://jalopnik.com/amg-is-downsizing-the-cheap-stuff-1847636714
>
> --
> --FT
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] AMG Is Downsizing The Cheap Stuff

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Moving toward electron-powered cars it looks like.  More expensive, more 
complex, more problematic and inclined to fail with huge repair costs...


https://jalopnik.com/amg-is-downsizing-the-cheap-stuff-1847636714

--
--FT

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