Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
> Actually, no. When the two external chargers raise the voltage above what > the internal one would supply, the internal one drops out of the picture. Unless your APC has the same kind of exercise/test logic mine does. Then it's definitely watching, every hour (or whatever). Maybe it doesn't mind what's going on outside of its control. It is likely that there's a resistor inside the APC that sets the charge voltage. > I have been thinking of getting a bench-type meter with 5 or 6 digits to > serve as a standard for my work. I'm not sure those would show up in pawn > shops. Never seen one. But Flukes galore. The 87 has 5 digits, if you switch it to high-accuracy mode. It measures slower then. I have one 83, and two 87's. I use the 83 routinely, the digits on it are larger, the battery lasts longer, and the analog display is proportional to the entire reading. I also bought it new, one of the few things I have that I've done so. The 87's are more accurate, read true RMS, and have backlights. But the analog display is proportional to the last digit only. Aimed at different things, I guess. These are all Mark-I era meters. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
Nothing wrong with aluminum wiring, if the connections at the ends are made correctly. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On 2023-01-07 18:16, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote: Seems to be par for the course. I have one leg of power that is intermittent, depending on conditions (underground from the pole to the house). Called the utility, they sent out a couple guys, problem was gone. Asked if the could install a chart recorder to monitor it. They sent in a request, but nothing came of it. I had random blinking lights. Was afraid it was my aluminum service drop from the roof to the meter. Had the utility check it out, and it turned out to be arching from the piece that clips to the powerline to feed the transformer. He put a temporary one on, and somebody else came by Monday to replace it with a permanent one. I really should get rid of that 40 year old aluminum but don't want to pay for it. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
> I ended up calling Los Alamos' utility division on another matter and they sent out a utility supervisor. I asked him how low the voltage should go. When he told me, I mentioned ours dropped to 107.5. He did not believe me Seems to be par for the course. I have one leg of power that is intermittent, depending on conditions (underground from the pole to the house). Called the utility, they sent out a couple guys, problem was gone. Asked if the could install a chart recorder to monitor it. They sent in a request, but nothing came of it. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On Sat, 7 Jan 2023 12:22:34 -0800 Jim Cathey wrote: > > welded relay contacts. > > Evil. My UPS rarely has to engage, if it's also relay-oriented > (likely) it hasn't had to survive a stress-test like that. I ended up calling Los Alamos' utility division on another matter and they sent out a utility supervisor. I asked him how low the voltage should go. When he told me, I mentioned ours dropped to 107.5. He did not believe me. We ran a test, where I turned on the electric oven, the electric hot water heater, and even a clothes iron. He removed the cover and measured the voltage at the input to the meter. He believed me then. We got a new distribution transformer for our house and the one next door and the long run to the transformer down the block (shared with several other houses) was eliminated a few days later. But the damage to the SmartUPS was already done. (I still have it and have been intending on fixing the relay, but ... ) > I am amazed that I've gotten 16 years of service out of my batteries, > and counting. (Well, only 12 out of one of them.) Yes, that is amazing. > If that photo is of your 700, it looks exactly like my 2000. It is, but I'm sure it's much smaller than your 2000. > This scenario is disturbing. You have THREE different battery chargers > connected to each battery, and you're proposing a fourth. Actually, I have one charger (internal to the SmartUPS) connected to both batteries, and one external charger connected to each battery. If I were to get a current source to raise the voltage a little, I would remove the two external chargers and re-connect the OBD24 desulfator. > All three are 'smart', and could well be interfering with each > other. > ... > So: three guys in the front seat wrestling over the steering wheel. Actually, no. When the two external chargers raise the voltage above what the internal one would supply, the internal one drops out of the picture. > The Fluke 87 has one more digit of precision. I have two of them, both > used, both acquired at pawnshops for around $100 each. I have been thinking of getting a bench-type meter with 5 or 6 digits to serve as a standard for my work. I'm not sure those would show up in pawn shops. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
> welded relay contacts. Evil. My UPS rarely has to engage, if it's also relay-oriented (likely) it hasn't had to survive a stress-test like that. I would call it consumer-grade crap, but it has done excellent work. In a truly evil power environment, I'd be tempted to deploy one of my two FerrUPS systems. They're definitely pro gear, but large, noisy, and inefficient. (I have a 3kVA and a 7kVA unit.) The smaller one was free, the larger I paid $200 for. The SmartUPS was $35. I also have a SmartUPS 3000XL that I've never used, which also was free. All were sans batteries, effectively. I am amazed that I've gotten 16 years of service out of my batteries, and counting. (Well, only 12 out of one of them.) These are sealed AGM batteries, definitely more expensive than a regular deep-cycle battery. With what battery prices have done in recent years, I am NOT looking forward to their eventual replacement. > So, yes, I do have reason to suspect my SmartUPS 700 is not equally as good. If that photo is of your 700, it looks exactly like my 2000. I am surprised, but then all four of my larger UPSs are 48V units, not 24V. So there's at least _some_ difference in the charging circuitry. Mine had an external battery pack, styled like the UPS itself. (All four batteries dead when I got it, as expected. For the same price as the special small batteries that'd fit inside the cute case, I could buy 75AH big batteries that would not, but that would run my gear for hours if necessary. It wasn't much of a decision, given that I had plenty of space for the big batteries to hide in the basement of my computer cabinet.) > Wanting to have a maintaining operation going on, I decided to purchase a > BatteryMINDer OnBoard Battery Desulfator/Conditioner (OBD24). When I > first got it and connected it to the batteries connected to the SmartUPS > 700, the light on the OBD24 blinked like it is supposed to. After a while, > though, it stopped. I don't know if the threshold of the OBD24 changed or > if the SmartUPS 700 decided to lower its charging voltage, but if the > voltage across the two batteries is raised 50 - 100 mV, the OBD24 works. > That is why I am using the two 12117TCs. I thought about rigging up a DC > supply with a current limiting resistor to add a little current to the > battery string to raise the voltage above the threshold, but just have not > gotten around to doing it. This scenario is disturbing. You have THREE different battery chargers connected to each battery, and you're proposing a fourth. All three are 'smart', and could well be interfering with each other. The UPS, if it's at all like mine, periodically tests the batteries by putting them under load. (Frustratingly, it is unable to supply power UNLESS it thinks the batteries are good. So, in the event of battery failure it goes from UPS to NPS, rather than falling back to whatever duty cycle your utility can supply.) So: three guys in the front seat wrestling over the steering wheel. But, if it's working for you then you've gotten lucky. > P.S. The little voltmeter is not very accurate; I know that. My Fluke 77 > does not have as many digits as I would like to be able to really see > what is going on. The Fluke 87 has one more digit of precision. I have two of them, both used, both acquired at pawnshops for around $100 each. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 15:22:56 -0800 Jim Cathey wrote: > > two of them are maintaining the two Group 31 batteries connected to > > my UPC SmartUPS 700 > > The charger built into my SmartUPS 2000, running continuously since > 2006, has been maintaining its four 75AH external batteries superbly. > (One failed early, in 2010.) It still holds up the computer cluster > when the power fails, I am thoroughly impressed with both that supply > and those batteries. I know it exercises the battery pack several times > a day, briefly. Whatever it's doing, it's clearly doing it well. > > Do you have reason to suspect that your 700 isn't equally good? Well, my SmartUPS 2200 (SU2200XLNET), went through a set of batteries when we were in Los Alamos, so I bought another set. A relay internal to the SmartUPS died when we got a demand electric hot water heater for the addition on our house (so I could abandon the water lines which ran in the attic and at one point had occluded with ice). The utility supply to the house at that point was not up to snuff so when the elements in the demand heater kicked on the line voltage dropped from 120 to 107.5. This, of course, cause the SmartUPS to use its relay-operated boost circuit to raise the voltage. After the elements were turned off, the line voltage went back up and the SmartUPS had to turn off its boost circuit. Since this happened several times per minute while Shirley was washing dishes, the SmartUPS finally gave up, I presume, with welded relay contacts. Anyway, I took the batteries out of the SmartUPS 2200 and added external wires for the SmartUPS to use the larger batteries from the SmartUPS 2200. That worked for a while, but after we moved here, the batteries died, so I ordered another set. Those also died, so I bought two Group 31 batteries (like the four in my Kenworth) to replace them. So, yes, I do have reason to suspect my SmartUPS 700 is not equally as good. Wanting to have a maintaining operation going on, I decided to purchase a BatteryMINDer OnBoard Battery Desulfator/Conditioner (OBD24). When I first got it and connected it to the batteries connected to the SmartUPS 700, the light on the OBD24 blinked like it is supposed to. After a while, though, it stopped. I don't know if the threshold of the OBD24 changed or if the SmartUPS 700 decided to lower its charging voltage, but if the voltage across the two batteries is raised 50 - 100 mV, the OBD24 works. That is why I am using the two 12117TCs. I thought about rigging up a DC supply with a current limiting resistor to add a little current to the battery string to raise the voltage above the threshold, but just have not gotten around to doing it. Craig P.S. The little voltmeter is not very accurate; I know that. My Fluke 77 does not have as many digits as I would like to be able to really see what is going on. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
> two of them are maintaining the two Group 31 batteries connected to my UPC > SmartUPS 700 The charger built into my SmartUPS 2000, running continuously since 2006, has been maintaining its four 75AH external batteries superbly. (One failed early, in 2010.) It still holds up the computer cluster when the power fails, I am thoroughly impressed with both that supply and those batteries. I know it exercises the battery pack several times a day, briefly. Whatever it's doing, it's clearly doing it well. Do you have reason to suspect that your 700 isn't equally good? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
> The 10.5 VDC minimum threshold for the 12117TC is why I also have a 1510, > for which the minimum threshold is 3.0 VDC. It's why I have two old Schauer battery chargers, and three lab power supplies! No minimum threshold. Some of the smart chargers have modes, like a power supply mode. Just puts out 12V (ish) and doesn't argue. That's the case with the CTEK 7002 I have. The lab supply, set to 4.2V and 200mA limits, charged the LiOn cell that was in the used tiny drone I bought as a gag Christmas gift. I didn't realize that the charging cable was missing. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 16:47:32 -0500 Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote: > I got from a friend one of those little lead acid batteries for an > alarm system. It’s showing 3V. I was thinking to put one of these > things on it to see if it would charge up but I don’t want to blow it > up or anything. What is the ampere-hour capacity of your little lead acid battery? Do you have a 12117TC? The current out of the 12117TC is 1 Ampere, so if your battery capacity is 1 AHr or more, you should have no problems. Unfortunately, the minimum voltage needed for the 12117TC to turn on is 10.5 VDC. You will have to charge the battery (perhaps through a car turn-signal bulb) to get it up to 10.5 VDC before the 12117TC will take over. Once you have that going, you can leave the 12117TC on the little battery forever. According to the technical guy at VDC Electronics, it will take 2 - 4 weeks to recover the battery. The 10.5 VDC minimum threshold for the 12117TC is why I also have a 1510, for which the minimum threshold is 3.0 VDC. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
I got from a friend one of those little lead acid batteries for an alarm system. It’s showing 3V. I was thinking to put one of these things on it to see if it would charge up but I don’t want to blow it up or anything. --FT Sent from iFōn > On Jan 6, 2023, at 3:53 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > Excellent. I just ordered 5 more of the Minders, to augment the three I > already had. If any of these save even _one_ battery, it's worth it. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 18:17:19 -0500 mitch--- via Mercedes wrote: > https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201 I went to order a couple more of these and the line-item in my cart said: Backordered Online Get it in 30 or more Business Days So I guess they are popular! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 12:52:56 -0800 Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: > Excellent. I just ordered 5 more of the Minders, to augment the three I > already had. If any of these save even _one_ battery, it's worth it. I have: - four of the 12117TC BatteryMINDers, one for each of the batteries in my Kenworth, since it works best to have only one battery on a maintainer, but right now two of them are maintaining the two Group 31 batteries connected to my UPC SmartUPS 700 and one is maintaining the Group 49 battery in my 300SD while it is up on jackstands to have its rear axle half-shafts repaired. - a BatteryMINDer 1510, which will recover a battery from a much lower voltage than the 12117TCs - a BatteryMINDer 128CEC1 for charging one battery at a higher current The only problem I have with the 12117TCs is when the utility power here drops out as it is frequently wont to do. When the power come back on, the 12117TCs go into equalizing mode, something not a good idea to do too often. To get the 12117TCs back into maintaining mode, I have to press the green button on the front of the charger. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
Excellent. I just ordered 5 more of the Minders, to augment the three I already had. If any of these save even _one_ battery, it's worth it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Battery Minder $20 again, Milwaukee M18 deals
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201 Milwaukee M18 deals, free batteries etc. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_rebates-special-offers Example: 3/8 impact comes with 2 free 6 amp batteries: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200848158_200848158 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
