Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Many, but if you take the group who are turned out after stabilization at an ER, probably a lot less than die from lack of it. BillR -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:16 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia How many die because of access to medical treatment? -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Lee Einer Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 09:37 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia LarryT wrote: You wrote turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake it's capitalism at it's worst Actually, it's illegal - signs are posted openly throughout the hospital - near ER, REception, on every floor in hallways - etc - only a blind person would miss it. It states that anyone regardless of ability to pay, insurance or not will receive emergency medical treatment Its not illegal at all. You need to understand what emergency treatment means in this context. It means they stabilize you and get you the hell out. It may not even mean that they set your broken limb, just that you are not in immediate danger of death. They will not give you a kidney. They will not give you a triple bypass. They will not treat your cancer. They will stabilize you post-trauma or post acute event, e.g., stroke, and then you are out on the street. An estimated 18,000 people die in the U.S., per year, because of lack of access to medical treatment. Think of it as five or six World Trade Center attacks, per year. Same casualties. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia - medical mistakes
There are deaths from MD error, but I suspect the number [no matter what it is] is far exceeded by the number who die from another infection or disease contracted while in the hospital. My wife missed four months of work due to an infection she got during surgery. Possibly the surgeons fault, more likely that of someone else either in the room or having the room not completely cleaned prior to the surgery. I know of many cases of this sort of thing, including a friend whose husband died from a staph infection after heart surgery. It is indeed dangerous to go to a place filled with so many sick people. BillR -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 7:10 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia I found the stat somewhere but have lost the source. Supposedly the average doctor kills something like 3.6 patients during the entire span of his career. Even if the doctor stat is over stated 10X and it's probably not then the average gun owner kills considerably less during his career. This makes a handgun owner much less dangerous than your family doctor. And by the way, people are killed by people, not handguns. A handgun by itself is completely safe and inert - it needs someone (you or me) to pull the trigger before it can go bang. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:42 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia I don't remember the numbers, and Don;t know if they are true, but there is the story going around the Internet that states that X number of people are killed by guns each year, and Y number are killed by doctors, where XY, so doctors are more dangerous than guns. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: How many die because of access to medical treatment? -- OK Don ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
LarryT wrote: You wrote turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake it's capitalism at it's worst Actually, it's illegal - signs are posted openly throughout the hospital - near ER, REception, on every floor in hallways - etc - only a blind person would miss it. It states that anyone regardless of ability to pay, insurance or not will receive emergency medical treatment Its not illegal at all. You need to understand what emergency treatment means in this context. It means they stabilize you and get you the hell out. It may not even mean that they set your broken limb, just that you are not in immediate danger of death. They will not give you a kidney. They will not give you a triple bypass. They will not treat your cancer. They will stabilize you post-trauma or post acute event, e.g., stroke, and then you are out on the street. An estimated 18,000 people die in the U.S., per year, because of lack of access to medical treatment. Think of it as five or six World Trade Center attacks, per year. Same casualties. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
How many die because of access to medical treatment? -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Lee Einer Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 09:37 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia LarryT wrote: You wrote turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake it's capitalism at it's worst Actually, it's illegal - signs are posted openly throughout the hospital - near ER, REception, on every floor in hallways - etc - only a blind person would miss it. It states that anyone regardless of ability to pay, insurance or not will receive emergency medical treatment Its not illegal at all. You need to understand what emergency treatment means in this context. It means they stabilize you and get you the hell out. It may not even mean that they set your broken limb, just that you are not in immediate danger of death. They will not give you a kidney. They will not give you a triple bypass. They will not treat your cancer. They will stabilize you post-trauma or post acute event, e.g., stroke, and then you are out on the street. An estimated 18,000 people die in the U.S., per year, because of lack of access to medical treatment. Think of it as five or six World Trade Center attacks, per year. Same casualties. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I don't remember the numbers, and Don;t know if they are true, but there is the story going around the Internet that states that X number of people are killed by guns each year, and Y number are killed by doctors, where XY, so doctors are more dangerous than guns. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: How many die because of access to medical treatment? -- OK Don ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I found the stat somewhere but have lost the source. Supposedly the average doctor kills something like 3.6 patients during the entire span of his career. Even if the doctor stat is over stated 10X and it's probably not then the average gun owner kills considerably less during his career. This makes a handgun owner much less dangerous than your family doctor. And by the way, people are killed by people, not handguns. A handgun by itself is completely safe and inert - it needs someone (you or me) to pull the trigger before it can go bang. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:42 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia I don't remember the numbers, and Don;t know if they are true, but there is the story going around the Internet that states that X number of people are killed by guns each year, and Y number are killed by doctors, where XY, so doctors are more dangerous than guns. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: How many die because of access to medical treatment? -- OK Don ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
In my limited, non-scientific experience, I'd rate the number of doctors and hand gun owners about equal in those that I do NOT feel safe around. There a re good an bad examples of each. Some people just can't be trusted, regardless of whether they have a SW or an MD. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net wrote: I found the stat somewhere but have lost the source. Supposedly the average doctor kills something like 3.6 patients during the entire span of his career. Even if the doctor stat is over stated 10X and it's probably not then the average gun owner kills considerably less during his career. This makes a handgun owner much less dangerous than your family doctor. And by the way, people are killed by people, not handguns. A handgun by itself is completely safe and inert - it needs someone (you or me) to pull the trigger before it can go bang. -- OK Don ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Or a butcher knife, or a baseball bat, or behind the wheel of a car Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:16 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia In my limited, non-scientific experience, I'd rate the number of doctors and hand gun owners about equal in those that I do NOT feel safe around. There a re good an bad examples of each. Some people just can't be trusted, regardless of whether they have a SW or an MD. On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net wrote: I found the stat somewhere but have lost the source. Supposedly the average doctor kills something like 3.6 patients during the entire span of his career. Even if the doctor stat is over stated 10X and it's probably not then the average gun owner kills considerably less during his career. This makes a handgun owner much less dangerous than your family doctor. And by the way, people are killed by people, not handguns. A handgun by itself is completely safe and inert - it needs someone (you or me) to pull the trigger before it can go bang. -- OK Don ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 8:49 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yes but a Government is charged with looking after ALL it's citizens. Sure if you want to choose doctor, hospital and stuff then take out health insurance (which I have and they pay about half the bill of my twice annual teeth cleaning bill because if I get my teeth checked twice a year they may well fork out less than if I let them rot and then need major dental work) but there has to be a safety net of basic medical care for those who can't afford health insurance. Sure if you don't have insurance you can't tell them you want a room in the best hospital and that you don't want that medical student to practice on you but a civilized nation must look after it's weakest. A the start of the movie Moore showed a bloke putting stitches in his knee because he has no health insurance, are you saying that he would have gotten treated at the local hospital for free? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Well that's what I thought but Moore claims that is what happened to one little kid, who was refused and the mother had to drive the kid to the another hospital. Does Moore have this incident on film, or just the mother's claim that she was turned away at hospital #1? Most cities, certainly ALL the large urban areas have county or public hospitals where people are treated regardless of their ability to pay. My brother works in such a hospital, most of the people that come throuh the ER there are treated with full knowledge that they will not pay a dime. Many of these people are also clearly making no effort to take care of themselves -- diabetics or people with hypertension who are 200lbs overweight, etc. There may be private or specialty hospitals where they limit the pro bono care to true emergencies. A kid with a fever would probably not be considered such, again you have to understand that Moore has an agenda with his film and he's definitely picking and choosing stories and presenting only one side in most cases. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
OK Don wrote: Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. That's why I cleaned and butterflied my own hand this summer. I pulled it shut without stitches and I thought I could fix it myself without scarring. (wrong, it's a scar, but not as ugly as the last one I had professionally stitched) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Michael Moore's claim, and the mother's, was legit. The mother was turned away with her dying child because she was Kaiser HMO and the nearest hospital was out of network. She begged for them to take care of her baby and they called the cops. By the time the child was transported to an in network hospital further away, it was too late. It was not that the family was indigent, or uninsured. The family was insured through Kaiser Permanente, an HMO. The HMO refused to allow the child to be treated at an out of network hospital, and thus caused her death. It's called death by denial, and its not at all uncommon in the U.S. We're not talking about the uninsured in this case, but people who have insurance and who get the carpet yanked from under them when they actually seek medical treatment. Lee Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Well that's what I thought but Moore claims that is what happened to one little kid, who was refused and the mother had to drive the kid to the another hospital. Does Moore have this incident on film, or just the mother's claim that she was turned away at hospital #1? Most cities, certainly ALL the large urban areas have county or public hospitals where people are treated regardless of their ability to pay. My brother works in such a hospital, most of the people that come throuh the ER there are treated with full knowledge that they will not pay a dime. Many of these people are also clearly making no effort to take care of themselves -- diabetics or people with hypertension who are 200lbs overweight, etc. There may be private or specialty hospitals where they limit the pro bono care to true emergencies. A kid with a fever would probably not be considered such, again you have to understand that Moore has an agenda with his film and he's definitely picking and choosing stories and presenting only one side in most cases. Allan -- Lee If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Superglue works great, leaves very little scarring it you get the sides all lined up properly. Not a good idea on very deep cuts though, as you may need more than just sticking the skin back together. Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Peter On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: OK Don wrote: Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. That's why I cleaned and butterflied my own hand this summer. I pulled it shut without stitches and I thought I could fix it myself without scarring. (wrong, it's a scar, but not as ugly as the last one I had professionally stitched) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Insurance companies exist to produce profits for their stockholders, and in the new Ayn Randism world, this is all they are supposed to do. Peter On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Lee Einer wrote: Michael Moore's claim, and the mother's, was legit. The mother was turned away with her dying child because she was Kaiser HMO and the nearest hospital was out of network. She begged for them to take care of her baby and they called the cops. By the time the child was transported to an in network hospital further away, it was too late. It was not that the family was indigent, or uninsured. The family was insured through Kaiser Permanente, an HMO. The HMO refused to allow the child to be treated at an out of network hospital, and thus caused her death. It's called death by denial, and its not at all uncommon in the U.S. We're not talking about the uninsured in this case, but people who have insurance and who get the carpet yanked from under them when they actually seek medical treatment. Lee Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Well that's what I thought but Moore claims that is what happened to one little kid, who was refused and the mother had to drive the kid to the another hospital. Does Moore have this incident on film, or just the mother's claim that she was turned away at hospital #1? Most cities, certainly ALL the large urban areas have county or public hospitals where people are treated regardless of their ability to pay. My brother works in such a hospital, most of the people that come throuh the ER there are treated with full knowledge that they will not pay a dime. Many of these people are also clearly making no effort to take care of themselves -- diabetics or people with hypertension who are 200lbs overweight, etc. There may be private or specialty hospitals where they limit the pro bono care to true emergencies. A kid with a fever would probably not be considered such, again you have to understand that Moore has an agenda with his film and he's definitely picking and choosing stories and presenting only one side in most cases. Allan -- Lee If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I've heard, not sure if true, Superglue is used during some surgeries. A good doc friend of mine tells me, the knack to a good stitch is not to get the two cut bits butted up together, but to get the two edges kinda upright, and pulled together. I'm told, if they are butted up and stitched, there is often more scar tissue created. Funny the things that come up in conversation after a couple of drinks, eh? lol None of it makes any sense to me, but I did do an ok job once replacing some stitching on a leather steering wheel. hee hee. Oh, and the Christmas Turkey always comes out looking pretty good. ;-) Ed 300E, not a doctor, for which you should all be very grateful. 2008/12/13 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Superglue works great, leaves very little scarring it you get the sides all lined up properly. Not a good idea on very deep cuts though, as you may need more than just sticking the skin back together. Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Peter On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: OK Don wrote: Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. That's why I cleaned and butterflied my own hand this summer. I pulled it shut without stitches and I thought I could fix it myself without scarring. (wrong, it's a scar, but not as ugly as the last one I had professionally stitched) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Cyanoacrylate glue was originally developed for wound closure, and only later became a household fixit material. Lee E M wrote: I've heard, not sure if true, Superglue is used during some surgeries. A good doc friend of mine tells me, the knack to a good stitch is not to get the two cut bits butted up together, but to get the two edges kinda upright, and pulled together. I'm told, if they are butted up and stitched, there is often more scar tissue created. Funny the things that come up in conversation after a couple of drinks, eh? lol None of it makes any sense to me, but I did do an ok job once replacing some stitching on a leather steering wheel. hee hee. Oh, and the Christmas Turkey always comes out looking pretty good. ;-) Ed 300E, not a doctor, for which you should all be very grateful. 2008/12/13 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Superglue works great, leaves very little scarring it you get the sides all lined up properly. Not a good idea on very deep cuts though, as you may need more than just sticking the skin back together. Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Peter On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: OK Don wrote: Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. That's why I cleaned and butterflied my own hand this summer. I pulled it shut without stitches and I thought I could fix it myself without scarring. (wrong, it's a scar, but not as ugly as the last one I had professionally stitched) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Lee If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Yes - that is true, though I don't know exactly where and for what they use it. Might be gluing the cut ends of arteries together? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 3:45 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I've heard, not sure if true, Superglue is used during some surgeries. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I punched a small hole in a turn signal with a flying pebble. I was lucky, in that the broken piece of lens was lodged inside, so using superglue, I was able to make a near perfect fix. Ok, so I broke the retaining tangs getting the lens out (amazing how many parts on a Benz are similar to those on an old Mac computer), but I had lots of glue left over, which did a nifty job of fixing that too. :-) Ed 300E 2008/12/13 Lee Einer l...@dosmanosjewelry.com Cyanoacrylate glue was originally developed for wound closure, and only later became a household fixit material. Lee E M wrote: I've heard, not sure if true, Superglue is used during some surgeries. A good doc friend of mine tells me, the knack to a good stitch is not to get the two cut bits butted up together, but to get the two edges kinda upright, and pulled together. I'm told, if they are butted up and stitched, there is often more scar tissue created. Funny the things that come up in conversation after a couple of drinks, eh? lol None of it makes any sense to me, but I did do an ok job once replacing some stitching on a leather steering wheel. hee hee. Oh, and the Christmas Turkey always comes out looking pretty good. ;-) Ed 300E, not a doctor, for which you should all be very grateful. 2008/12/13 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Superglue works great, leaves very little scarring it you get the sides all lined up properly. Not a good idea on very deep cuts though, as you may need more than just sticking the skin back together. Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Peter On Dec 13, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: OK Don wrote: Yes - if he couldn't pay, they are required to provide care. The guy I knew who stitched up his own cuts did it because he didn't want to waste time going to the doctor or hospital I can do it as well as they can. That's why I cleaned and butterflied my own hand this summer. I pulled it shut without stitches and I thought I could fix it myself without scarring. (wrong, it's a scar, but not as ugly as the last one I had professionally stitched) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Lee If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Peter Frederick wrote: Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Especially when the hole is in the back of your dominant hand. I felt lucky to get it taped up and straight without wasting any more butterflies than I did. With glue, it's got to be right the first time. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
You can buy that stuff at the drug store for patching up your bod, it is somehow different from the superglue at Home Depot (someone told me and I forgot how), but does the same thing. Just make sure it is only sticking together what you want stuck together. --R OK Don wrote: Yes - that is true, though I don't know exactly where and for what they use it. Might be gluing the cut ends of arteries together? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 3:45 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote: I've heard, not sure if true, Superglue is used during some surgeries. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
This post applies equally to broken turn signals as it does fingers. lol Ed 300E 2008/12/13 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net Peter Frederick wrote: Often works better if someone else does the gluing though. Especially when the hole is in the back of your dominant hand. I felt lucky to get it taped up and straight without wasting any more butterflies than I did. With glue, it's got to be right the first time. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
If it happened as described, it sounds like the hospital did the wrong thing. There are a lot of unanswered questions in my mind but I'll leave it at that. However, I'd wager than in any government-operated heath care plan, such horror stories also can be found, and in greater numbers. Look at the VA. Allan Lee Einer l...@dosmanosjewelry.com writes: Michael Moore's claim, and the mother's, was legit. The mother was turned away with her dying child because she was Kaiser HMO and the nearest hospital was out of network. She begged for them to take care of her baby and they called the cops. By the time the child was transported to an in network hospital further away, it was too late. It was not that the family was indigent, or uninsured. The family was insured through Kaiser Permanente, an HMO. The HMO refused to allow the child to be treated at an out of network hospital, and thus caused her death. It's called death by denial, and its not at all uncommon in the U.S. We're not talking about the uninsured in this case, but people who have insurance and who get the carpet yanked from under them when they actually seek medical treatment. Lee Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Well that's what I thought but Moore claims that is what happened to one little kid, who was refused and the mother had to drive the kid to the another hospital. Does Moore have this incident on film, or just the mother's claim that she was turned away at hospital #1? Most cities, certainly ALL the large urban areas have county or public hospitals where people are treated regardless of their ability to pay. My brother works in such a hospital, most of the people that come throuh the ER there are treated with full knowledge that they will not pay a dime. Many of these people are also clearly making no effort to take care of themselves -- diabetics or people with hypertension who are 200lbs overweight, etc. There may be private or specialty hospitals where they limit the pro bono care to true emergencies. A kid with a fever would probably not be considered such, again you have to understand that Moore has an agenda with his film and he's definitely picking and choosing stories and presenting only one side in most cases. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net writes: Insurance companies exist to produce profits for their stockholders, and in the new Ayn Randism world, this is all they are supposed to do. Yes. They are businesses. They provide a service their customers want, and generate a profit for themselves. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I punched a small hole in a turn signal with a flying pebble. I was lucky, in that the broken piece of lens was lodged inside, so using superglue, I was able to make a near perfect fix. I've never had cyanoacrylate glue hold up on turn signal lenses. It gets white and powdery in the sun. I've had much better luck using 5-minute epoxy (clear) on that. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Rich Thomas wrote: You can buy that stuff at the drug store for patching up your bod, it is somehow different from the superglue at Home Depot The way I heard it, the medical grade stuff is pure CA, without any thickeners or preservatives. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Maybe you were the one who reported that previously. --R Mitch Haley wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: You can buy that stuff at the drug store for patching up your bod, it is somehow different from the superglue at Home Depot The way I heard it, the medical grade stuff is pure CA, without any thickeners or preservatives. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I found a big difference when between using Superglue with, and without pressure for the first minute when it's setting up on plastic. I also found, it works equally well with, or without pressure on fingers. I didn't really need that bit of flesh anyway. Ed 300E 2008/12/13 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Maybe you were the one who reported that previously. --R Mitch Haley wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: You can buy that stuff at the drug store for patching up your bod, it is somehow different from the superglue at Home Depot The way I heard it, the medical grade stuff is pure CA, without any thickeners or preservatives. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Rich Thomas wrote: Maybe you were the one who reported that previously. I may have said that here. It's what a friend who used to work in a medical research lab told me. He carried the medical stuff in his first aid kit, either swiped from the university or purchased from the university store. When I asked him to get me a tube, he told me to go to Kmart and buy the thin stuff, it was the same except for the preservatives. I would also imagine there are certain cleanliness and purity standards to be met with the medical stuff. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Well, I guess if Moore defamed the hospital (and possibly Kaiser) that turned the child away they would have sued and made him cut that scene from the movie. Hendrik Lee Einer wrote: Michael Moore's claim, and the mother's, was legit. The mother was turned away with her dying child because she was Kaiser HMO and the nearest hospital was out of network. She begged for them to take care of her baby and they called the cops. By the time the child was transported to an in network hospital further away, it was too late. It was not that the family was indigent, or uninsured. The family was insured through Kaiser Permanente, an HMO. The HMO refused to allow the child to be treated at an out of network hospital, and thus caused her death. It's called death by denial, and its not at all uncommon in the U.S. We're not talking about the uninsured in this case, but people who have insurance and who get the carpet yanked from under them when they actually seek medical treatment. Lee ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Of course mistakes are made but turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake, it's capitalism at it's worst. Perhaps that is one thing I am trying to understand, does pure capitalism turn society into a cold and uncaring machine that ONLY worships money and success. Then the next question is whether pure capitalism leads to fascism, one of the core believes of fascism is that the strong survive, whilst the weak perish. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: If it happened as described, it sounds like the hospital did the wrong thing. There are a lot of unanswered questions in my mind but I'll leave it at that. However, I'd wager than in any government-operated heath care plan, such horror stories also can be found, and in greater numbers. Look at the VA. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Here is pure capitalism. Fortunately, the US isn't really capitalistic these days. http://www.raken.com/American_wealth/Gilded_age_index4.asp If you can get it down there rent Blazing Saddles. It is a comedy but somehow gives a true flavor of the great days of the railroad barons. On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Of course mistakes are made but turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake, it's capitalism at it's worst. Perhaps that is one thing I am trying to understand, does pure capitalism turn society into a cold and uncaring machine that ONLY worships money and success. Then the next question is whether pure capitalism leads to fascism, one of the core believes of fascism is that the strong survive, whilst the weak perish. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Of course mistakes are made but turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake, it's capitalism at it's worst. It's likely just someone without a very good brain following policy. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
You wrote turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake it's capitalism at it's worst Actually, it's illegal - signs are posted openly throughout the hospital - near ER, REception, on every floor in hallways - etc - only a blind person would miss it. It states that anyone regardless of ability to pay, insurance or not will receive emergency medical treatment Here's part of one of the signs - To provide compassionate, quality healthcare services to those in need, including the poor and dying, for the purpose of alleviating human suffering and bringing people to wholeness in the midst of pain and loss. This is rated as in the top 10% cardiac care hospitals in the US. Sincerely, Larry T (74 911, 91 300D 2.5T) www.youroil.net Oil Analysis Kits Porsche Posters/Weber parts Test Results - http://members.rennlist.com/oil/ http://www.scamfreetop10.com/1233.html . - Original Message - From: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia Of course mistakes are made but turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake, it's capitalism at it's worst. Perhaps that is one thing I am trying to understand, does pure capitalism turn society into a cold and uncaring machine that ONLY worships money and success. Then the next question is whether pure capitalism leads to fascism, one of the core believes of fascism is that the strong survive, whilst the weak perish. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: If it happened as described, it sounds like the hospital did the wrong thing. There are a lot of unanswered questions in my mind but I'll leave it at that. However, I'd wager than in any government-operated heath care plan, such horror stories also can be found, and in greater numbers. Look at the VA. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Good brain or not if the policy is in place.. This leads on to the question of litigation, if that woman can prove that due to the inaction of Hospital A her child died, would she have recourse to seek compensation? Then there is the question of the hypocratic oath that Doctors must pledge, pretty sure that part of that oath is that they must treat a sick person if they can, unless it has been changed to only having to treat someone if they hold the right insurance policy. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Of course mistakes are made but turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake, it's capitalism at it's worst. It's likely just someone without a very good brain following policy. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Just like in college,. my buddy was a pharmacy major and would grab a bottle of the med grade grain alcohol on a Friday afternoon. Much better for the cabeza on Saturday morning. --R Mitch Haley wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: Maybe you were the one who reported that previously. I may have said that here. It's what a friend who used to work in a medical research lab told me. He carried the medical stuff in his first aid kit, either swiped from the university or purchased from the university store. When I asked him to get me a tube, he told me to go to Kmart and buy the thin stuff, it was the same except for the preservatives. I would also imagine there are certain cleanliness and purity standards to be met with the medical stuff. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
So perhaps we can surmise that they did not think the child was in need of emergency medical treatment, oooh it's only a slight temperature, she'll be fine. Hendrik LarryT wrote: You wrote turning away a very sick person because of insurance issues is not a mistake it's capitalism at it's worst Actually, it's illegal - signs are posted openly throughout the hospital - near ER, REception, on every floor in hallways - etc - only a blind person would miss it. It states that anyone regardless of ability to pay, insurance or not will receive emergency medical treatment Here's part of one of the signs - To provide compassionate, quality healthcare services to those in need, including the poor and dying, for the purpose of alleviating human suffering and bringing people to wholeness in the midst of pain and loss. This is rated as in the top 10% cardiac care hospitals in the US. Sincerely, Larry T (74 911, 91 300D 2.5T) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
E wrote: I found a big difference when between using Superglue with, and without pressure for the first minute when it's setting up on plastic. I also found, it works equally well with, or without pressure on fingers. I didn't really need that bit of flesh anyway. I believe moisture causes it to set. Not much moisture in the plastic. Lots in your skin. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik Ed Booher wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: You know how to take the photos and list the cars. You know what works and what doesn't. And you know the people at the dealers. Perfect situation! Independent operator coin has two sides, though. Employee status is probably better if: and when I don't check email a couple days, I should read the entire thread before commenting, eh? EdB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US Michael Moore is a radical left wing loon. Don't base any opionions on what you saw there, he is definitely presenting only carefully chosen anecdotes that support his socalist agenda. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Nothing Michael Moore says is of any interest to me---the guy is a self-promoting blowhard who makes the American left look even dumber than it manages to do itself---but, Hendrik, you may not realize that health care is a real political hot potato in the USA. Is the ban on politics on the list still on now that the election's over? On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik Ed Booher wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: You know how to take the photos and list the cars. You know what works and what doesn't. And you know the people at the dealers. Perfect situation! Independent operator coin has two sides, though. Employee status is probably better if: and when I don't check email a couple days, I should read the entire thread before commenting, eh? EdB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
There is no such thing as free health care, anywhere. Ed 300E 2008/12/12 Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik Ed Booher wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: You know how to take the photos and list the cars. You know what works and what doesn't. And you know the people at the dealers. Perfect situation! Independent operator coin has two sides, though. Employee status is probably better if: and when I don't check email a couple days, I should read the entire thread before commenting, eh? EdB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay wrote: I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, Don't make the mistake of thinking that Michael Whore creates documentaries based upon facts. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik, Do understand that while some of the things Michael Moore promotes are somewhat true, he also tends to exaggerate to make his point. As for our health care system, well, you said it when you remarked about us going down the capitalist road. As a result it's gone out of control, with profit being more important that providing care. As a result, any efforts that are made to privatize/socialize it will be fought tooth and nail by extremely powerful financial forces brought on by the insurance and drug companies. My oldest son takes a drug that is only made by Eli Lilly (because it's not out of their initial ownership period) that costs over $1000/month. He makes about $300/week, and has insurance from his employer. However, he also has a limit of $3000/year for prescription drugs. So after 3 months, he's screwed. I was able to get him signed up through a clinic to get the drug for free after his insurance runs out. This is a program that Eli Lilly has, but there is no guarantee it will continue. If it goes away, or he becomes ineligible, too bad. Without the drug he's not functional and would have to be institutionalized, which won't happen because there are no provisions for public health care to institutionalize people. I would add that nearly 30% of Lilly's annual profit is due to this drug (Zyprexa) alone, and they are fighting dearly to prevent it from going generic in 2011 when mandated by law. So the lousy bastards are making billions of dollars on the backs of people like my son, who literally works every day just to pay for his prescriptions. This is the face of the American health care system. It's all about money, and not about the people. Dan --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: From: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 6:38 PM I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
This is not about Michael Moore and whatever he may or may not be but it is about health care and whether you are happy that it is a political thing, instead of being a fundamental right of every citizen. Are you happy to pay 120 bucks for an inhaler which is sold in Cuba for 5 cents? Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? Are you happy that your health insurance deductibles will send you broke if you get really sick. Sure Moore fluffs up his movies but I don't hear anyone saying that the US has the best health care system in the world, which it should. He did make the point that schooling is provided by the Government, why? Because of the need for people that can read and write, so why don't they have a need a for people that are not sick? The way I see this is that it is a form of control over the people. Hendrik Alex Chamberlain wrote: Nothing Michael Moore says is of any interest to me---the guy is a self-promoting blowhard who makes the American left look even dumber than it manages to do itself---but, Hendrik, you may not realize that health care is a real political hot potato in the USA. Is the ban on politics on the list still on now that the election's over? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
No there is not but the user pays system does not appear to be working, as promised. Hendrik who got the family health care card in the mail yesterday, when did you get yours? E M wrote: There is no such thing as free health care, anywhere. Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to pay 120 bucks for an inhaler which is sold in Cuba for 5 cents? Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? Are you happy to repeat lies as if they were facts? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
It's a delicate balance for the drug companies. For every successful drug, many formulas are developed and tested, and fail to achieve the hoped-for results. If they could not make a profit from the successful ones, they would not be in business and then the drug would never be developed. My mom passed away last summer from ALS. There are no treatments, really. There's a medicine called Rilutek that has a very small, but statistically proven benefit in longevity, but ultimately the drug does not stop the (terminal) progression of the condition. It costs about $950 a month. Her medicare coverage paid for the first couple of months, then she was in the gap for a good while before the catastophic coverage limit ($5000?) was reached, and they started paying again. In her case she decided to go ahead and take the drug, to feel that she was doing something about her disease. Some of these conditions are so rare, that there's no way for a company to make a financial justification to research and develop treatments if they are going to be forced to sell the product for $10 a month or whatever people think drugs should cost. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? I'm all for free health care, but hospitals aren't allowed to refuse emergency treatment to anyone. As soon as you're stabilized your ass is out the door, but emergency stuff it is illegal to say no. You'll get a bill, but if you can't pay you just don't pay it. That is one of the reasons insurance premiums are so high over here... Someone who has no health insurance goes to the ER to get medicine for their cold... how much cheaper would it be to send them to a standard doctor? Are you happy that your health insurance deductibles will send you broke if you get really sick. Nope. I miss being on a co-pay plan. This deductible stuff sucks. Sure Moore fluffs up his movies That is putting it VERY mildly.. I don't hear anyone saying that the US has the best health care system in the world, which it should. A lot of people say that... depends on what you mean by best. Some people say that we have the latest and greatest technology, which make us the best. I think we are *capable* of having both, but I don't see that ever happening. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
And you're saying that Moore made these people lie? So why has he not been sued for slander by the companies he attacked? Some of them come off looking pretty evil. So if I was living in the states and had insurance with health provider XYZ, I can take my very sick kid to the nearest hospital run by the ABC health insurance company and they will treat my child and bill XYZ for the treatment? This is the reason I am asking, if I believed everything Moore said I would not bother you with this but just thank my lucky stars I live in a civilized nation. I am not trying to stir up trouble but rather trying to understand why you put up with such a system? You sure are a strange mob, the Government even thinks about taking away your machines of death and you lot will rise up as one but the Government takes away your right to be healed if you are sick without putting you into a crippling debt and you just sign on the dotted line without reading the fine print. Perhaps this says something about your founding fathers, put in the right to bear arms but not the right to health care. Hendrik who bares his arms to get some sun into them Mitch Haley wrote: Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to pay 120 bucks for an inhaler which is sold in Cuba for 5 cents? Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? Are you happy to repeat lies as if they were facts? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
In spite of what the others are telling you, Michael Moore is the Moses of America 2008. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on 8. this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik Ed Booher wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: You know how to take the photos and list the cars. You know what works and what doesn't. And you know the people at the dealers. Perfect situation! Independent operator coin has two sides, though. Employee status is probably better if: and when I don't check email a couple days, I should read the entire thread before commenting, eh? EdB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Ok, joking aside, Hendrik, here's the deal as I see it. The health care industry has the Legislative Branch in their hip pockets due to lobbying and campaign contributions. In fact, drug companies were the #1 contributer to re-election coffers in the US last year. I am a retired military officer, which is supposed to afford me some pretty good lifelong health insurance. It isn't bad if I get really sick and have to go to the Veteran Affairs hospital, where most folks leave with a sheet over the face. I think the first $3K of my health costs each year are out of pocket before my insurance kicks in. I badly sliced a finger about a year ago while cooking, on a Sunday afternoon, and had to go the the ER for stitches. My health insurance paid nothing (deductible not met yet) and I went about $350 out of pocket. Don't even ask me about dental care of vision care. Not covered. Wife and I got flu shots about a month ago. Insurance doesn't cover it. No preventative care. I only see a doctor if I am bleeding profusely or have a sinus infection that threatens to attack my brain tissue (has happened only once). Other than that, I can't afford to see a doctor. If I didn't have the military health insurance (such as it is), it would cost me about 20% of my take home pay at my job to get minimal coverage. I might be in a unique situation, but my health care provider -- the US Government -- has a vested interest in my NOT being healthy. If I die, they stop sending me my military retirement check each month. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: And you're saying that Moore made these people lie? So why has he not been sued for slander by the companies he attacked? Some of them come off looking pretty evil. So if I was living in the states and had insurance with health provider XYZ, I can take my very sick kid to the nearest hospital run by the ABC health insurance company and they will treat my child and bill XYZ for the treatment? This is the reason I am asking, if I believed everything Moore said I would not bother you with this but just thank my lucky stars I live in a civilized nation. I am not trying to stir up trouble but rather trying to understand why you put up with such a system? You sure are a strange mob, the Government even thinks about taking away your machines of death and you lot will rise up as one but the Government takes away your right to be healed if you are sick without putting you into a crippling debt and you just sign on the dotted line without reading the fine print. Perhaps this says something about your founding fathers, put in the right to bear arms but not the right to health care. Hendrik who bares his arms to get some sun into them Mitch Haley wrote: Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to pay 120 bucks for an inhaler which is sold in Cuba for 5 cents? Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? Are you happy to repeat lies as if they were facts? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Ahh right now I understand, in the movie Moore makes mention of people getting dumped outside welfare shelters in hospital gowns. So the poor get the most basic of care and then get dumped, once the hospital figures out they got no way of paying the bill. What I mean by best is the ability of the health system to keep people healthy and fix them when they are sick. A lot of health systems around the world are based on pro-active health treatment. Then again Moore made that English doctor lie about how he gets a bonus for getting people to live more healthily. I suspect in the US there is a conspiracy between the health care providers and the drug companies, the drug companies want to sell drugs and they need someone to prescribe these things on a huge scale. Then again people are to blame themselves as well, they want that magic pill that makes their cholesterol lower, fixes their blood pressure and diabetes. Never mind that they are overweight and unfit (like Moore), which brought about a lot of their health problems. Hendrik John Robbins wrote: Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? I'm all for free health care, but hospitals aren't allowed to refuse emergency treatment to anyone. As soon as you're stabilized your ass is out the door, but emergency stuff it is illegal to say no. You'll get a bill, but if you can't pay you just don't pay it. That is one of the reasons insurance premiums are so high over here... Someone who has no health insurance goes to the ER to get medicine for their cold... how much cheaper would it be to send them to a standard doctor? Are you happy that your health insurance deductibles will send you broke if you get really sick. Nope. I miss being on a co-pay plan. This deductible stuff sucks. Sure Moore fluffs up his movies That is putting it VERY mildly.. I don't hear anyone saying that the US has the best health care system in the world, which it should. A lot of people say that... depends on what you mean by best. Some people say that we have the latest and greatest technology, which make us the best. I think we are *capable* of having both, but I don't see that ever happening. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Wonko, at 65, you'll go on Medicare with everybody else, but Tricare-for-life (retired military ins) will become your secondary insurer with Medicare as primary. I've had amazingly fantastic coverage for my CIDP problems for the past 8+ years. It's sort of upsetting, though, to remember that you and I and other 20+ years-members of our military were promised excellent medical care for the rest of our lives. I was lucky that I didn't get sick 'til I was on Medicare. Wilton - Original Message - From: Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia Ok, joking aside, Hendrik, here's the deal as I see it. The health care industry has the Legislative Branch in their hip pockets due to lobbying and campaign contributions. In fact, drug companies were the #1 contributer to re-election coffers in the US last year. I am a retired military officer, which is supposed to afford me some pretty good lifelong health insurance. It isn't bad if I get really sick and have to go to the Veteran Affairs hospital, where most folks leave with a sheet over the face. I think the first $3K of my health costs each year are out of pocket before my insurance kicks in. I badly sliced a finger about a year ago while cooking, on a Sunday afternoon, and had to go the the ER for stitches. My health insurance paid nothing (deductible not met yet) and I went about $350 out of pocket. Don't even ask me about dental care of vision care. Not covered. Wife and I got flu shots about a month ago. Insurance doesn't cover it. No preventative care. I only see a doctor if I am bleeding profusely or have a sinus infection that threatens to attack my brain tissue (has happened only once). Other than that, I can't afford to see a doctor. If I didn't have the military health insurance (such as it is), it would cost me about 20% of my take home pay at my job to get minimal coverage. I might be in a unique situation, but my health care provider -- the US Government -- has a vested interest in my NOT being healthy. If I die, they stop sending me my military retirement check each month. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: And you're saying that Moore made these people lie? So why has he not been sued for slander by the companies he attacked? Some of them come off looking pretty evil. So if I was living in the states and had insurance with health provider XYZ, I can take my very sick kid to the nearest hospital run by the ABC health insurance company and they will treat my child and bill XYZ for the treatment? This is the reason I am asking, if I believed everything Moore said I would not bother you with this but just thank my lucky stars I live in a civilized nation. I am not trying to stir up trouble but rather trying to understand why you put up with such a system? You sure are a strange mob, the Government even thinks about taking away your machines of death and you lot will rise up as one but the Government takes away your right to be healed if you are sick without putting you into a crippling debt and you just sign on the dotted line without reading the fine print. Perhaps this says something about your founding fathers, put in the right to bear arms but not the right to health care. Hendrik who bares his arms to get some sun into them Mitch Haley wrote: Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to pay 120 bucks for an inhaler which is sold in Cuba for 5 cents? Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? Are you happy to repeat lies as if they were facts? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
One of the basic differences is whether health care is a right or a privilege. Many believe it is a privilege - I know very good doctors, who even do free work sometimes, who believe it's a privilege, not a right. Another issue is our belief in our individual right to choose - a doctor, a hospital, the timing of operations, etc. Many insurance programs put limits on your choices, and many healthcare for all government programs do that same. We can choose to not buy insurance, use the ER when we get a runny nose and not pay, or get good insurance for a lot of money, but we have lower taxes. You pay's your money, and take's your chances. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Ahh right now I understand, in the movie Moore makes mention of people getting dumped outside welfare shelters in hospital gowns. So the poor get the most basic of care and then get dumped, once the hospital figures out they got no way of paying the bill. What I mean by best is the ability of the health system to keep people healthy and fix them when they are sick. A lot of health systems around the world are based on pro-active health treatment. Then again Moore made that English doctor lie about how he gets a bonus for getting people to live more healthily. I suspect in the US there is a conspiracy between the health care providers and the drug companies, the drug companies want to sell drugs and they need someone to prescribe these things on a huge scale. Then again people are to blame themselves as well, they want that magic pill that makes their cholesterol lower, fixes their blood pressure and diabetes. Never mind that they are overweight and unfit (like Moore), which brought about a lot of their health problems. Hendrik John Robbins wrote: Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? I'm all for free health care, but hospitals aren't allowed to refuse emergency treatment to anyone. As soon as you're stabilized your ass is out the door, but emergency stuff it is illegal to say no. You'll get a bill, but if you can't pay you just don't pay it. That is one of the reasons insurance premiums are so high over here... Someone who has no health insurance goes to the ER to get medicine for their cold... how much cheaper would it be to send them to a standard doctor? Are you happy that your health insurance deductibles will send you broke if you get really sick. Nope. I miss being on a co-pay plan. This deductible stuff sucks. Sure Moore fluffs up his movies That is putting it VERY mildly.. I don't hear anyone saying that the US has the best health care system in the world, which it should. A lot of people say that... depends on what you mean by best. Some people say that we have the latest and greatest technology, which make us the best. I think we are *capable* of having both, but I don't see that ever happening. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Yes - the current administrations treatment of our military is despicable. We'll see if the new one does any better. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Wonko, at 65, you'll go on Medicare with everybody else, but Tricare-for-life (retired military ins) will become your secondary insurer with Medicare as primary. I've had amazingly fantastic coverage for my CIDP problems for the past 8+ years. It's sort of upsetting, though, to remember that you and I and other 20+ years-members of our military were promised excellent medical care for the rest of our lives. I was lucky that I didn't get sick 'til I was on Medicare. Wilton -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
John Robbins je...@msstate.edu writes: Someone who has no health insurance goes to the ER to get medicine for their cold... how much cheaper would it be to send them to a standard doctor? I'd like to know why I can't get a cheap catastrophic insurance policy with a $10K deductible and pay the nickle and dime stuff cash. Must be a reason. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: So if I was living in the states and had insurance with health provider XYZ, I can take my very sick kid to the nearest hospital run by the ABC health insurance company and they will treat my child and bill XYZ for the treatment? Most likely. If your insurance plan has a network of providers, and that hospital is not in the network you may pay a larger share. However MOST insurance has exceptions to this for true emergencies while traveling, etc. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com writes: In spite of what the others are telling you, Michael Moore is the Moses of America 2008. Michael Moore is a big fat idiot. (To turn a phrase by Al Franken). Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes: One of the basic differences is whether health care is a right or a privilege. Many believe it is a privilege - I know very good doctors, who even do free work sometimes, who believe it's a privilege, not a right. I need to eat on a regular basis or I will certainly die. Yet nobody seems to think that there should be a single payer government run system for providing food (yet). Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Allan Streib wrote: I'd like to know why I can't get a cheap catastrophic insurance policy with a $10K deductible and pay the nickle and dime stuff cash. Who said you can't? esurance.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
It's called food stamps --- I need to eat on a regular basis or I will certainly die. Yet nobody seems to think that there should be a single payer government run system for providing food (yet). Allan -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes: Allan Streib wrote: I'd like to know why I can't get a cheap catastrophic insurance policy with a $10K deductible and pay the nickle and dime stuff cash. Who said you can't? esurance.com Prices are fixed by law $319 a month is not what I'd call cheap. That's a lot more than my car insurance, and that has only a $500 deductible, not $10,000. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
If only the US were going down the capitalist, private road. ... We have a semi-socialist system where the druggies and the insuransies get the big bucks. We get charged $10 for a bandaid, and it costs the clinic $12 or $15 to process the paperwork for a nickel bandaid. and for this, the employer pays $25. In a capitalist system, we'd just pay the nickel for the bandaid. At 05:38 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko last night and was quite shocked by the state of the health system in the US, I remember when Kaleb told us he was gonna get the boot, that health insurance was big worry and I thought to myself then how bizarre this is. Over here if you lose your job, you sign up for the dole and look for another job. Health insurance doesn't come into the picture. This got me to thinking, how can the most powerful nation have one of the worst health care systems? And why are you lot putting up with it? My understanding is that the pollies made this an ideological battleground, which it should not be, whereby universal free health care is seen as a socialist thing but is it? I look at it as a fundamental human right. Most western nations agree with me on this but the US went down the privatized (capitalist) road. Sure you have a system where industry buys politicians and their point of view, we have that too but not on your scale. A good example is that during the fascist rule of our former far right Fuehrer, some attempts where made to privatize the health system by the carrot and stick approach. The carrot being that they pay 33% of the health insurance premium and the stick being if you don't sign up there will be penalties once you get past 30. However we still have free care for anyone. Are you happy with the way things are? Hendrik Ed Booher wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: You know how to take the photos and list the cars. You know what works and what doesn't. And you know the people at the dealers. Perfect situation! Independent operator coin has two sides, though. Employee status is probably better if: and when I don't check email a couple days, I should read the entire thread before commenting, eh? EdB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
That does not really happen. To think it would is an insult to some very caring people. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Now we understand. --R Wonko the Sane wrote: I only see a doctor if I am bleeding profusely or have a sinus infection that threatens to attack my brain tissue (has happened only once). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Allan Streib wrote: I need to eat on a regular basis or I will certainly die. Yet nobody seems to think that there should be a single payer government run system for providing food (yet). Food stamps. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Allan Streib wrote: I'd like to know why I can't get a cheap catastrophic insurance policy with a $10K deductible and pay the nickle and dime stuff cash. Must be a reason. Dunno, makes sense that it should be cheap. Would the nickel and dime stuff include prescriptions? If I didn't have a prescription plan I'd be flat ass broke... John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Yes but a Government is charged with looking after ALL it's citizens. Sure if you want to choose doctor, hospital and stuff then take out health insurance (which I have and they pay about half the bill of my twice annual teeth cleaning bill because if I get my teeth checked twice a year they may well fork out less than if I let them rot and then need major dental work) but there has to be a safety net of basic medical care for those who can't afford health insurance. Sure if you don't have insurance you can't tell them you want a room in the best hospital and that you don't want that medical student to practice on you but a civilized nation must look after it's weakest. A the start of the movie Moore showed a bloke putting stitches in his knee because he has no health insurance, are you saying that he would have gotten treated at the local hospital for free? Hendrik OK Don wrote: One of the basic differences is whether health care is a right or a privilege. Many believe it is a privilege - I know very good doctors, who even do free work sometimes, who believe it's a privilege, not a right. Another issue is our belief in our individual right to choose - a doctor, a hospital, the timing of operations, etc. Many insurance programs put limits on your choices, and many healthcare for all government programs do that same. We can choose to not buy insurance, use the ER when we get a runny nose and not pay, or get good insurance for a lot of money, but we have lower taxes. You pay's your money, and take's your chances. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
I do believe there is a system in place called unemployment benefits which enable those with no means to buy food, although if they do or not is questionable. Then there where the soup kitchens of the depression era but I am too young to remember that. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes: One of the basic differences is whether health care is a right or a privilege. Many believe it is a privilege - I know very good doctors, who even do free work sometimes, who believe it's a privilege, not a right. I need to eat on a regular basis or I will certainly die. Yet nobody seems to think that there should be a single payer government run system for providing food (yet). Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Well they would probably get together and fix the price of a band aid at 50 bucks. Hendrik Loren Faeth wrote: If only the US were going down the capitalist, private road. ... We have a semi-socialist system where the druggies and the insuransies get the big bucks. We get charged $10 for a bandaid, and it costs the clinic $12 or $15 to process the paperwork for a nickel bandaid. and for this, the employer pays $25. In a capitalist system, we'd just pay the nickel for the bandaid. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Buying freeze is back on, just don't get hypothermia
Well that's what I thought but Moore claims that is what happened to one little kid, who was refused and the mother had to drive the kid to the another hospital. You'd have to be some kind of monster to not care for a sick child, whether she had the right cover or not. Hendrik Rich Thomas wrote: That does not really happen. To think it would is an insult to some very caring people. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: Are you happy to see your child die in front of your eyes because the nearest hospital refuses treatment due to not being part of your health care insurance? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
