Re: [MBZ] Education

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--FT wrote:
> One of my old black friends, who is a total badass...

This youtube black guy from SC did a speech up in Dearborn - nice
sorta badass kinda guy from SC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VySRxgswpGc
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I am involved with our local community issues here, participate in 
several groups. One of them is a mix of white folks and black folks, 
kinda unique in that regard.  One of my old black friends, who is a 
total badass going back to the 50s, has been angry for years that the 
schools have dropped the manual arts training they used to do, with the 
emphasis now on college as the only worthwhile track.  The result is 
that a lot of kids (maybe) graduate with fairly useless knowledge, if 
they managed to pick any up, and are totally unequipped to go forth and 
earn a living. Around here a lot of the brickmasons were black, and did 
some amazing work.  That has pretty much gone away now, along with all 
the other trades and skills that can only be accessed now from the Tech 
College, which is kinda late and difficult to deal with.  The result is 
that black kids in particular in our area are sorta cut out of the 
economy, it's sorta the old education segregation in a new way.


The new Volvo and Mercedes plants coming on line are having a difficult 
time right now finding good employees, go figure, even though they are 
willing to train them.


--FT


On 4/22/18 10:55 PM, clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

In looking around at the local market, as opposed to the AK schools for 
secondary education, there are almost NO programs for the non-prep students.  
Gone are shop classes, horticulture, anything that would engage the hands and 
minds of the bulk of the kids.  AK had all manner of cool programs, from 
electrician training, avionics, and all the trades/skills the economy up there 
requires.  The kids come out pretty much employable without needing more than 
training on the job.

clay

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Apr 22, 2018, at 7:33 AM, tyee165 via Mercedes  wrote:

Most folks do not want their children to be blue collar workers but most of the 
children would be better off if trained for a trade than if they just get a 
liberal arts degree.
Here in Manitoba, apprentices get tuition paid and get unemployment insurance 
during the periods when they go back to school so they will not live high on 
the hog, so to speak, but they can survive on their own if need be.
My elder son is an architect with 7 years of university and a master's degree. 
My younger one is a red seal journeyman auto tech. I paid to educate the elder 
one so he had no student loans. The taxpayer paid to educate the younger one. 
His investment was in tools but many trades do not require much in that regard. 
His friend the electrician has very little in the way of tools.
RB





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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Good choice - that or a plumber.

I’ve gone down the road of business owner twice. It’s not for the faint of 
heart or some who needs a consistent night’s sleep.  However, the payoff can be 
significant if you’re successful.

-D

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 8:48 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If I could go back to 18 year old me I'd tell him to be a commercial 
> electrician. The amount we spend with electricians where I work is absurd. If 
> I'd started at 18 with an eye toward having my own business I'd have 3 trucks 
> by now, a small office, a minor ulcer and an eye to selling out...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
>On Sunday, April 22, 2018, 11:19:12 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> While I was in college, I talked to a guy living next door who was a 
> brickmason.  I decided I shoulda found where to apprentice.  That FL 
> dude made a LOT of money.
> 
> Now, if I had to recommend, I'd say learn how to teach  (with AI) or 
> program machining centers.  A friend of mine does, and travels the world 
> as he wishes.  He is at the post-doctorate level in the industry.
> 
> clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
>> In looking around at the local market, as opposed to the AK schools for 
>> secondary education, there are almost NO programs for the non-prep students. 
>>  Gone are shop classes, horticulture, anything that would engage the hands 
>> and minds of the bulk of the kids.  AK had all manner of cool programs, from 
>> electrician training, avionics, and all the trades/skills the economy up 
>> there requires.  The kids come out pretty much employable without needing 
>> more than training on the job.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>> 
>> retired models-
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately&  well tailored crap
>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

If I could go back to 18 year old me I'd tell him to be a commercial 
electrician. The amount we spend with electricians where I work is absurd. If 
I'd started at 18 with an eye toward having my own business I'd have 3 trucks 
by now, a small office, a minor ulcer and an eye to selling out...

-Curt
 

On Sunday, April 22, 2018, 11:19:12 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 While I was in college, I talked to a guy living next door who was a 
brickmason.  I decided I shoulda found where to apprentice.  That FL 
dude made a LOT of money.

Now, if I had to recommend, I'd say learn how to teach  (with AI) or 
program machining centers.  A friend of mine does, and travels the world 
as he wishes.  He is at the post-doctorate level in the industry.

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
> In looking around at the local market, as opposed to the AK schools for 
> secondary education, there are almost NO programs for the non-prep students.  
> Gone are shop classes, horticulture, anything that would engage the hands and 
> minds of the bulk of the kids.  AK had all manner of cool programs, from 
> electrician training, avionics, and all the trades/skills the economy up 
> there requires.  The kids come out pretty much employable without needing 
> more than training on the job.
>
> clay
>
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1986 SDL - Polei
> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>
> retired models-
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately&  well tailored crap
> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>


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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

While I was in college, I talked to a guy living next door who was a 
brickmason.  I decided I shoulda found where to apprentice.   That FL 
dude made a LOT of money.


Now, if I had to recommend, I'd say learn how to teach  (with AI) or 
program machining centers.  A friend of mine does, and travels the world 
as he wishes.   He is at the post-doctorate level in the industry.


clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

In looking around at the local market, as opposed to the AK schools for 
secondary education, there are almost NO programs for the non-prep students.  
Gone are shop classes, horticulture, anything that would engage the hands and 
minds of the bulk of the kids.  AK had all manner of cool programs, from 
electrician training, avionics, and all the trades/skills the economy up there 
requires.  The kids come out pretty much employable without needing more than 
training on the job.

clay

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately&  well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers





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Re: [MBZ] Education

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

In looking around at the local market, as opposed to the AK schools for 
secondary education, there are almost NO programs for the non-prep students.  
Gone are shop classes, horticulture, anything that would engage the hands and 
minds of the bulk of the kids.  AK had all manner of cool programs, from 
electrician training, avionics, and all the trades/skills the economy up there 
requires.  The kids come out pretty much employable without needing more than 
training on the job.

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Apr 22, 2018, at 7:33 AM, tyee165 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Most folks do not want their children to be blue collar workers but most of 
> the children would be better off if trained for a trade than if they just get 
> a liberal arts degree.
> Here in Manitoba, apprentices get tuition paid and get unemployment insurance 
> during the periods when they go back to school so they will not live high on 
> the hog, so to speak, but they can survive on their own if need be.
> My elder son is an architect with 7 years of university and a master's 
> degree. My younger one is a red seal journeyman auto tech. I paid to educate 
> the elder one so he had no student loans. The taxpayer paid to educate the 
> younger one. His investment was in tools but many trades do not require much 
> in that regard. His friend the electrician has very little in the way of 
> tools.
> RB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] Education

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Most folks do not want their children to be blue collar workers but most of the 
children would be better off if trained for a trade than if they just get a 
liberal arts degree.
Here in Manitoba, apprentices get tuition paid and get unemployment insurance 
during the periods when they go back to school so they will not live high on 
the hog, so to speak, but they can survive on their own if need be.
My elder son is an architect with 7 years of university and a master's degree. 
My younger one is a red seal journeyman auto tech. I paid to educate the elder 
one so he had no student loans. The taxpayer paid to educate the younger one. 
His investment was in tools but many trades do not require much in that regard. 
His friend the electrician has very little in the way of tools.
RB





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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Jim Cathey]

 I know the degree is no guarantee of a job

No.  Most often its presence is a checkbox.  They mightn't
look at you without it because there's no proof you have
any stick-toitiveness.  Get the checkbox and then they'll
actually perhaps consider you seriously.  But then any
other factors come into play.

Even more importantly, at least in the tech fields, is
what have you been doing lately.  Seems all they want
sometimes is somebody who's been filling _exactly_ the
same position for the past 10 years, and at a low
salary!  It's easier that way, rather than having to
determine if the guy is capable of learning the job
and being productive.  Guy knows a dozen programming
languages, and has done very well in them all, but
doesn't know C# (or whatever)?  Buh-bye.  Stupid.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Redghost]

To stay out of further debt, refrain from attending the Art institute  
of Seattle.  Had the brain dead BiL attend.  He wasted some $30k in  
tuition over two years after moving his family from hotlanta.  Got  
his wife with child, could find no job in town, so moved to the  
boonies of NC for a job paying $20K designing banners.  Two years  
later drops out of the job market and decides to homeschool his wee  
bairns.  Those kids will no doubt qualify for housing with LT Wonko  
once he is through with them.

clay




On 12 Jan 2008, at 23:54, Zoltan Finks wrote:

 I found the academic standards at the four-year college from which I
 recently graduated to be pretty good (Yes, this is highly subjective).

 The way in which I feel I got less - much less - than I expected  
 has to do
 with employment after securing the degree.

 I know the degree is no guarantee of a job (I learned this the hard  
 way back
 in '90 when I stupidly took out loans for an associate degree at an
 institution that ran deceptive TV commercials), but as I have  
 worked in the
 various jobs I have had through the years I always thought folks  
 with a
 Bachelor's degree had it made. They were pretty much able to get at  
 least a
 decent job no matter what, owing to their having that degree.

 Much of this, I know, is a problem of my job searching skills, but  
 still, I
 have gotten zero credit for having gone even deeper into debt in  
 hopes of
 getting out of the world of dead end, depressing jobs.

 Some of the problem has to do with our having moved to a very  
 competitive
 job market (Seattle) in the field of graphic design.

 Brian

 Glenn included:Someone recently observed that American education is  
 the only
 product where
 the consumer (the student) is satisfied to get less than expected.
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Re: [MBZ] Education

[LarryT]

You wrote:Some of the problem has to do with our having moved to a very 
competitive
job market (Seattle) in the field of graphic design

More like 99% of the problem.  With some many people competing for so few 
jobs only PHd's are finding jobs.  (Sightly joking).

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Education


I found the academic standards at the four-year college from which I
 recently graduated to be pretty good (Yes, this is highly subjective).

 The way in which I feel I got less - much less - than I expected has to do
 with employment after securing the degree.

 I know the degree is no guarantee of a job (I learned this the hard way 
 back
 in '90 when I stupidly took out loans for an associate degree at an
 institution that ran deceptive TV commercials), but as I have worked in 
 the
 various jobs I have had through the years I always thought folks with a
 Bachelor's degree had it made. They were pretty much able to get at least 
 a
 decent job no matter what, owing to their having that degree.

 Much of this, I know, is a problem of my job searching skills, but still, 
 I
 have gotten zero credit for having gone even deeper into debt in hopes of
 getting out of the world of dead end, depressing jobs.

 Some of the problem has to do with our having moved to a very competitive
 job market (Seattle) in the field of graphic design.

 Brian

 Glenn included:Someone recently observed that American education is the 
 only
 product where
 the consumer (the student) is satisfied to get less than expected.
 ___
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 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1222 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 
 12:23 PM

 


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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Zoltan Finks]

I found the academic standards at the four-year college from which I
recently graduated to be pretty good (Yes, this is highly subjective).

The way in which I feel I got less - much less - than I expected has to do
with employment after securing the degree.

I know the degree is no guarantee of a job (I learned this the hard way back
in '90 when I stupidly took out loans for an associate degree at an
institution that ran deceptive TV commercials), but as I have worked in the
various jobs I have had through the years I always thought folks with a
Bachelor's degree had it made. They were pretty much able to get at least a
decent job no matter what, owing to their having that degree.

Much of this, I know, is a problem of my job searching skills, but still, I
have gotten zero credit for having gone even deeper into debt in hopes of
getting out of the world of dead end, depressing jobs.

Some of the problem has to do with our having moved to a very competitive
job market (Seattle) in the field of graphic design.

Brian

Glenn included:Someone recently observed that American education is the only
product where
the consumer (the student) is satisfied to get less than expected.
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[MBZ] Education

[Glenn Brown]

I forwarded the recent education posts to my brother who is a retired
professor.  Here's his response:

 Someone recently observed that American education is the only product where
the consumer (the student) is satisfied to get less than expected.

I haven't seen any more recent studies, but consider this: in 1950, the
average 14-year-old in the U.S. had a working vocabulary of about 25,000
words. In 1999, this had dropped to 10,000 words.

If we excluded, like, whatever, no problem, the number today would be even
less.

In 2005, the Intercollegiate Studies Institute contracted with the
University of Connecticut's department of public policy to administer tests
of basic historical and civic knowledge to 14,000 students at schools such
as Yale, Harvard, Cornell, University of Virginia, Brown and Duke. According
to the survey, Students were no better off than when they arrived in terms
of acquiring the knowledge necessary for informed engagement in a democratic
republic and global economy.

G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC
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Re: [MBZ] Education

[LWB250]

It's like the Modern American History class I took a
few years ago.  The prof graded on a curve, and the
kids in the class were pissed about me being there, so
much so that they complained to the prof that, It's
not fair - he was ALIVE when all this stuff happened!

Heh.  The prof thought it was funny enough that they
told me about it.

Dan


--- Glenn Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I forwarded the recent education posts to my brother
 who is a retired
 professor.  Here's his response:
 
  Someone recently observed that American education
 is the only product where
 the consumer (the student) is satisfied to get less
 than expected.
 
 I haven't seen any more recent studies, but consider
 this: in 1950, the
 average 14-year-old in the U.S. had a working
 vocabulary of about 25,000
 words. In 1999, this had dropped to 10,000 words.
 
 If we excluded, like, whatever, no problem, the
 number today would be even
 less.
 
 In 2005, the Intercollegiate Studies Institute
 contracted with the
 University of Connecticut's department of public
 policy to administer tests
 of basic historical and civic knowledge to 14,000
 students at schools such
 as Yale, Harvard, Cornell, University of Virginia,
 Brown and Duke. According
 to the survey, Students were no better off than
 when they arrived in terms
 of acquiring the knowledge necessary for informed
 engagement in a democratic
 republic and global economy.
 
 G. M. Brown
 Brevard, NC



  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Zoltan Finks]

Hey Larry,

Interesting indeed, and I can attest to its truth. I've gone back to
school - never went to college as a young man. I'm now, I guess, an
official college senior.

I don't know the answers to about half those questions you listed. But then
again I'm almost twenty years farther away from my high school and earlier
education. We have not been required to learn that information about our
country or government here at this respected private college.

What we have been required to learn in every single class other than some
of the math and science and art ones, is that our country is bad, and that
Americans are backwards and should feel guilty and look to Europe for
salvation. Traditional Judeo-Christian concepts are regularly ridiculed and
laughed at by the enlightened Phd instructors, history is revised, and the
Koran and Bhuddism etc. are looked to for inspiration. Wisdom can also be
found by looking to Mother Earth and the animals (of which we are the most
wicked). This is a Catholic college.

Oh well, whatever it takes to be able to get a decent job.

Brian


On 1/17/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


In our recent discussions about education, etc - I found this in my in box
today --

the Intercollegiate Studies Institute by the University of Connecticut's
Department of Public Policy, surveyed 14,094 college freshmen and seniors
at
50 U.S. colleges and universities from Massachusetts to California. It
found
a stunning ignorance. Seniors scored an average of 53.2 on the 60-question
civics test. That's a big, fat F. More than half of college seniors could
not identify the correct century in which the Jamestown colony was founded
or name the battle that ended the American Revolution. Truly frightening,
more than half also did not know that the Bill of Rights forbids the
federal
government from establishing a national religion. These are college
seniors.
Among the institutions whose students were surveyed: Dartmouth, Yale,
Harvard, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of North
Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of Michigan. It should go
without saying that in a republic, civic education is a fundamental
necessity. If even our elite college graduates have no idea what the First
Amendment does, the country is in trouble.

I thought it interesting --

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
- Original Message -
From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality


 Tom Hargrave wrote:
 I'm sure that today's Mercedes are more reliable (better quality) than
 those
 manufactured in the 90's and those manufactured in the 90's are more
 reliable (better quality) than those manufactured in the 80's, etc,
etc.


 A lot of the complaints seem to be in the fit and finish category.
 Interior pieces falling off, paint flaking off, etc.  Those things don't
 make a car unreliable, but they do really hurt its image.  It seems like
 when a car maker wants to cut costs, the interior is the first place
 they go.  GM's current cars, for example, drive pretty nicely but they
 have the interior materials of a much cheaper vehicle.

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1/16/2007



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[MBZ] Education

[LarryT]

In our recent discussions about education, etc - I found this in my in box 
today --


the Intercollegiate Studies Institute by the University of Connecticut's 
Department of Public Policy, surveyed 14,094 college freshmen and seniors at 
50 U.S. colleges and universities from Massachusetts to California. It found 
a stunning ignorance. Seniors scored an average of 53.2 on the 60-question 
civics test. That's a big, fat F. More than half of college seniors could 
not identify the correct century in which the Jamestown colony was founded 
or name the battle that ended the American Revolution. Truly frightening, 
more than half also did not know that the Bill of Rights forbids the federal 
government from establishing a national religion. These are college seniors. 
Among the institutions whose students were surveyed: Dartmouth, Yale, 
Harvard, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of North 
Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of Michigan. It should go 
without saying that in a republic, civic education is a fundamental 
necessity. If even our elite college graduates have no idea what the First 
Amendment does, the country is in trouble.


I thought it interesting --

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
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.
- Original Message - 
From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality



Tom Hargrave wrote:
I'm sure that today's Mercedes are more reliable (better quality) than 
those

manufactured in the 90's and those manufactured in the 90's are more
reliable (better quality) than those manufactured in the 80's, etc, etc.



A lot of the complaints seem to be in the fit and finish category.
Interior pieces falling off, paint flaking off, etc.  Those things don't
make a car unreliable, but they do really hurt its image.  It seems like
when a car maker wants to cut costs, the interior is the first place
they go.  GM's current cars, for example, drive pretty nicely but they
have the interior materials of a much cheaper vehicle.

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Re: [MBZ] Education

[Chuck Landenberger]

On Jan 17, 2007, at 3:30 PM, LarryT wrote:


  If even our elite college graduates have no idea what the First
Amendment does, the country is in trouble.

I thought it interesting --

Larry T


And FRIGHTENING!

Take care,

Chuck
Phoenix AZ  (warming up - in the mid 60's today)