Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Someone with more active brain cells than me. I do believe that is the place. -Rolf On 06/04/2010 12:56 PM, ernest breakfield wrote: Rolf, would you by any chance be referring to Palo Alto Speedometer? cheers! e On 04/Jun/10 06:08, Rolf wrote: There is a reputable shop in Cali that adverts in the back of the star IIRC. They specialize in VDO's (they all have the same issue). A few others on the boards have mentioned it as well. Name escapes me. I think its about $150 to have it refurbed, I would go that route with a warranty over replacing it with questionable used parts (says the guy whos gone through 3 85 speedos and is about to just give up on the junkyard and fork over the moola). If you tear the speedo apart the mechanism is, what I would consider to be, fairly laughable. Is a wheel in a cup that spins arounds (either the cup or the wheel is drven cant remember). I consistently found that the odo, if working tends to be correct and the speedo is off (same as your predicament). Right now I have a non working odo and a bouncing but accurate speedo. Once I get around to getting the VNT installed in my car and doing my own electronic vane control I plan on adding in support for electronic speedos ala w126/201/124 etc. They have their own issues but are easy enough to find. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 02:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogelwrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.co
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Trust, but verify. --R On 6/4/2010 2:48 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: The speedo cable is relatively new, replaced about 2 yrs. ago and maybe used for 2k miles. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Rich Thomas< richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote: Don't forget the cable too. --R On 6/3/2010 4:22 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Actally, I was thinking just the opposite - that I needed to swap IN a speedometer from an '85 W123 to mate up with the 85 transmission. But regardless, I will definitely R/R the speedomter this weekend in hope that, at a minimum, the wa, wa, wa screetching noise at high speeds goes away. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tim C wrote: I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 when I was looking. If this is the noisy one, even better. Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I already had. -Tim On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
The speedo cable is relatively new, replaced about 2 yrs. ago and maybe used for 2k miles. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Rich Thomas < richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote: > Don't forget the cable too. > > --R > > > On 6/3/2010 4:22 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > >> Actally, I was thinking just the opposite - that I needed to swap IN a >> speedometer from an '85 W123 to mate up with the 85 transmission. >> >> But regardless, I will definitely R/R the speedomter this weekend in hope >> that, at a minimum, the wa, wa, wa screetching noise at high speeds goes >> away. >> >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tim C wrote: >> >> >> >>> I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 >>> or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 >>> when I was looking. >>> >>> If this is the noisy one, even better. >>> >>> Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me >>> about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first >>> time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I >>> already had. >>> >>> -Tim >>> >>> On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: >>> >>> >>>> CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from >>>> >>>> >>> all >>> >>> >>>> that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate >>>> speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there >>>> >>>> >>> hope >>> >>> >>>> for an affordable fix?" >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed >>>>> to >>>>> foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph >>>>> and >>>>> miles covered), or is there hope? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV >>>>> SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >>>>> 53310 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> that >>> >>> >>>> the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the >>>>>> transmission speedometer gears. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Max >>>>>> >>>>>> -Original Message- >>>>>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >>>>>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM >>>>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >>>>>> turbodiesel - with an incentive >>>>>> >>>>>> I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not >>>>>> the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Rolf >>>>>> >>>>>> On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 53310 >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the >>>>>>> gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies >>>>>>> to match the differential. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The EPC can answer this question... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Max >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Original Message- >>>>>>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >>>>>>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM >>>>>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >>>>>>> turbodiese
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Rolf, would you by any chance be referring to Palo Alto Speedometer? cheers! e On 04/Jun/10 06:08, Rolf wrote: There is a reputable shop in Cali that adverts in the back of the star IIRC. They specialize in VDO's (they all have the same issue). A few others on the boards have mentioned it as well. Name escapes me. I think its about $150 to have it refurbed, I would go that route with a warranty over replacing it with questionable used parts (says the guy whos gone through 3 85 speedos and is about to just give up on the junkyard and fork over the moola). If you tear the speedo apart the mechanism is, what I would consider to be, fairly laughable. Is a wheel in a cup that spins arounds (either the cup or the wheel is drven cant remember). I consistently found that the odo, if working tends to be correct and the speedo is off (same as your predicament). Right now I have a non working odo and a bouncing but accurate speedo. Once I get around to getting the VNT installed in my car and doing my own electronic vane control I plan on adding in support for electronic speedos ala w126/201/124 etc. They have their own issues but are easy enough to find. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 02:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogelwrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
There is a reputable shop in Cali that adverts in the back of the star IIRC. They specialize in VDO's (they all have the same issue). A few others on the boards have mentioned it as well. Name escapes me. I think its about $150 to have it refurbed, I would go that route with a warranty over replacing it with questionable used parts (says the guy whos gone through 3 85 speedos and is about to just give up on the junkyard and fork over the moola). If you tear the speedo apart the mechanism is, what I would consider to be, fairly laughable. Is a wheel in a cup that spins arounds (either the cup or the wheel is drven cant remember). I consistently found that the odo, if working tends to be correct and the speedo is off (same as your predicament). Right now I have a non working odo and a bouncing but accurate speedo. Once I get around to getting the VNT installed in my car and doing my own electronic vane control I plan on adding in support for electronic speedos ala w126/201/124 etc. They have their own issues but are easy enough to find. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 02:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogelwrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Is this the same car that makes the occasional undiagnosed noise at speed, which is only related to ground speed and not engine speed? Like maybe the rotor and stator making physical contact inside the speedo? Seems like that would make the speedo read high and bouncy. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
Nope, as Rolf/Mitch/Kaleb have pointed out, transmission swap alone would not affect your speedometer accuracy. If your car is a 1983, and you left the differential and the speedometer alone when you installed the '85 tranny, your speedometer should be just as accurate as it was before the swap. Is this the same car that makes the occasional undiagnosed noise at speed, which is only related to ground speed and not engine speed? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 4:22 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive Actally, I was thinking just the opposite - that I needed to swap IN a speedometer from an '85 W123 to mate up with the 85 transmission. But regardless, I will definitely R/R the speedomter this weekend in hope that, at a minimum, the wa, wa, wa screetching noise at high speeds goes away. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tim C wrote: > I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 > or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 > when I was looking. > > If this is the noisy one, even better. > > Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me > about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first > time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I > already had. > > -Tim > > On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: > > CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message > > from > all > > that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate > > speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is > > there > hope > > for an affordable fix?" > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel > > wrote: > > > >> OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I > >> doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too > >> high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV > >> SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > >> > >>> Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC > >>> shows > that > >>> the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the > >>> transmission speedometer gears. > >>> > >>> -Max > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > >>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM > >>> To: Mercedes Discussion List > >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > >>> turbodiesel - with an incentive > >>> > >>> I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and > >>> not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. > >>> > >>> -Rolf > >>> > >>> On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, > 53310 > >>> wrote: > >>> > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but > >>> > the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the > >>> > tranny) varies to match the differential. > >>> > > >>> > The EPC can answer this question... > >>> > > >>> > -Max > >>> > > >>> > -Original Message- > >>> > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > >>> > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM > >>> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > >>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > >>> > turbodiesel - with an incentive > >>> > > >>> > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear > >>> > diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the > >>> > w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The > >>> > manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. > >>> > > >>> > -Rolf > >>> > > >>> > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Jim Cathey wrote: > >>
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
I know it is as well. I also just checked the EPC and the speedo drive gear is the same part number for 83 and 85 Rolf wrote: I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Don't forget the cable too. --R On 6/3/2010 4:22 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Actally, I was thinking just the opposite - that I needed to swap IN a speedometer from an '85 W123 to mate up with the 85 transmission. But regardless, I will definitely R/R the speedomter this weekend in hope that, at a minimum, the wa, wa, wa screetching noise at high speeds goes away. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tim C wrote: I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 when I was looking. If this is the noisy one, even better. Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I already had. -Tim On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Actally, I was thinking just the opposite - that I needed to swap IN a speedometer from an '85 W123 to mate up with the 85 transmission. But regardless, I will definitely R/R the speedomter this weekend in hope that, at a minimum, the wa, wa, wa screetching noise at high speeds goes away. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tim C wrote: > I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 > or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 > when I was looking. > > If this is the noisy one, even better. > > Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me > about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first > time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I > already had. > > -Tim > > On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: > > CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from > all > > that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate > > speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there > hope > > for an affordable fix?" > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel > > wrote: > > > >> OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to > >> foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and > >> miles covered), or is there hope? > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV > >> SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, > >> 53310 wrote: > >> > >>> Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows > that > >>> the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the > >>> transmission speedometer gears. > >>> > >>> -Max > >>> > >>> -----Original Message- > >>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > >>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM > >>> To: Mercedes Discussion List > >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > >>> turbodiesel - with an incentive > >>> > >>> I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not > >>> the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. > >>> > >>> -Rolf > >>> > >>> On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, > 53310 > >>> wrote: > >>> > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the > >>> > gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies > >>> > to match the differential. > >>> > > >>> > The EPC can answer this question... > >>> > > >>> > -Max > >>> > > >>> > -Original Message- > >>> > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > >>> > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM > >>> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > >>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > >>> > turbodiesel - with an incentive > >>> > > >>> > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not > >>> > the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and > >>> > all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year > >>> > to year based on engine and reivisions. > >>> > > >>> > -Rolf > >>> > > >>> > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Jim Cathey wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >>> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure > >>> >>> wheel > >>> >>> > >>> > > >>> >>> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is > >>> >>> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, > >>> >>> and > >>> >>> > >>> > > >>> >>> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. > >>> >>> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the > >>> >>> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer > >>>
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
I believe the takeaway is: get a new speedometer assembly from an '84 or earlier 123 diesel automatic. Ebay that puppy, they were $50-$150 when I was looking. If this is the noisy one, even better. Alternatively, try taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Took me about 30 minutes to dismantle, clean, and reassemble mine the first time, so it's not a big commitment. I used synthetic bicycle grease I already had. -Tim On 6/3/10, andrew strasfogel wrote: > CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all > that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate > speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope > for an affordable fix?" > > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel > wrote: > >> OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to >> foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and >> miles covered), or is there hope? >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV >> SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >> 53310 wrote: >> >>> Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that >>> the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the >>> transmission speedometer gears. >>> >>> -Max >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM >>> To: Mercedes Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >>> turbodiesel - with an incentive >>> >>> I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not >>> the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. >>> >>> -Rolf >>> >>> On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 >>> wrote: >>> > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the >>> > gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies >>> > to match the differential. >>> > >>> > The EPC can answer this question... >>> > >>> > -Max >>> > >>> > -Original Message- >>> > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >>> > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM >>> > To: Mercedes Discussion List >>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >>> > turbodiesel - with an incentive >>> > >>> > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not >>> > the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and >>> > all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year >>> > to year based on engine and reivisions. >>> > >>> > -Rolf >>> > >>> > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: >>> > >>> >> Jim Cathey wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure >>> >>> wheel >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is >>> >>> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, >>> >>> and >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. >>> >>> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the >>> >>> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer >>> >>> output. >>> >>> >>> >> I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match >>> >> the speedometer head to the differential gearing. >>> >> >>> >> Mitch. >>> >> >>> >> ___ >>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >>> >>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >> >>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > ___ >&
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
CORRECTION: Should have written "OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned discussion? Am I doomed to forever have an inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope for an affordable fix?" On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to > foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and > miles covered), or is there hope? > > > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, > 53310 wrote: > >> Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that >> the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the >> transmission speedometer gears. >> >> -Max >> >> -Original Message- >> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >> turbodiesel - with an incentive >> >> I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not >> the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. >> >> -Rolf >> >> On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 >> wrote: >> > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the >> > gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies >> > to match the differential. >> > >> > The EPC can answer this question... >> > >> > -Max >> > >> > -Original Message----- >> > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >> > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf >> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM >> > To: Mercedes Discussion List >> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >> > turbodiesel - with an incentive >> > >> > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not >> > the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and >> > all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year >> > to year based on engine and reivisions. >> > >> > -Rolf >> > >> > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: >> > >> >> Jim Cathey wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure >> >>> wheel >> >>> >> > >> >>> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is >> >>> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, >> >>> and >> >>> >> > >> >>> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. >> >>> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the >> >>> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer >> >>> output. >> >>> >> >> I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match >> >> the speedometer head to the differential gearing. >> >> >> >> Mitch. >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> >> >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> > >> > ___ >> > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > >> > ___ >> > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Abandon all hope ye who enter the old Benz realm --R On 6/3/2010 2:50 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
OK - what is the takeaway message from all that learned? Am I doomed to foreever have ain inaccurate speedometer that reads too high (in mph and miles covered), or is there hope? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that > the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the > transmission speedometer gears. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not > the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. > > -Rolf > > On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 > wrote: > > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the > > gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies > > to match the differential. > > > > The EPC can answer this question... > > > > -Max > > > > -Original Message- > > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > > > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not > > the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and > > all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year > > to year based on engine and reivisions. > > > > -Rolf > > > > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > > > >> Jim Cathey wrote: > >> > >> > >>> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure > >>> wheel > >>> > > > >>> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is > >>> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, > >>> and > >>> > > > >>> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. > >>> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the > >>> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer > >>> output. > >>> > >> I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match > >> the speedometer head to the differential gearing. > >> > >> Mitch. > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Sho'enuf, hat tip to Rolf (and Mitch). For a 123.133 the EPC shows that the speedo and the diff changed for '85, but no changes to the transmission speedometer gears. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the > gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies > to match the differential. > > The EPC can answer this question... > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not > the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and > all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year > to year based on engine and reivisions. > > -Rolf > > On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > >> Jim Cathey wrote: >> >> >>> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure >>> wheel >>> > >>> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is >>> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, >>> and >>> > >>> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. >>> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the >>> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer >>> output. >>> >> I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match >> the speedometer head to the differential gearing. >> >> Mitch. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
I know for a fact that the speedo is matched to the rear diff and not the transmission alteast in the W123 chassis. Feel free to research it. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:46 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
I think that the issue is the drive gearing may be the same, but the gear which drives the speedometer (in the tail of the tranny) varies to match the differential. The EPC can answer this question... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rolf Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: > Jim Cathey wrote: > >> No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel >> RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is >> _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and >> so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. >> You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the >> tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer >> output. > > I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match > the speedometer head to the differential gearing. > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
That is pretty much correct. The speedo is based on the rear diff not the trans. The automatics are all the same (for the w123) gearing and all the four speeds end in 1:1 gearing. The manuals differ from year to year based on engine and reivisions. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Jim Cathey wrote: No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. I thought the MBZ way was to have the trannies all alike, and match the speedometer head to the differential gearing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
So why did the speedometer start reading too high after I swapped out the 83 trannie for an 85? That's the mystery... 85 cars have a taller rear end, resulting in a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed. Your speedometer (and odometer) should be reading _low_, not high, if you put an 85 tranny in an 83. Now, if you went the _other way_... No, I correct myself. The speedometer is attempting to measure wheel RPM, but it's tapped at the tranny tailshaft. The 85 tranny is _expecting_ to have a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed, and so gears up the speedometer tap to make up for it. You put that tranny in a car with a shorter rear end, and the tailshaft RPM is higher than expected, and so is the speedometer output. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
So why did the speedometer start reading too high after I swapped out the 83 trannie for an 85? That's the mystery... 85 cars have a taller rear end, resulting in a lower tailshaft RPM for a given road speed. Your speedometer (and odometer) should be reading _low_, not high, if you put an 85 tranny in an 83. Now, if you went the _other way_... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Yo Andrew, is this the car with the noisy maybe-speedometer (was that even you?)? When my noise would kick in I noticed the speedometer would 'float' up and down for a few seconds, leading me to believe it was completely wrong all the time; I don't think it was settling at the right time, even though the indicator was down all the way. Seems to be vaguely right now that I've cleaned and lubricated it. Just a thought. -Tim On 6/3/10, Rolf wrote: > Probably didn't notice it before? If the odo is correct then its a > problem with your speedo. I wouldn't "play" with any of the timing, I > would just make sure its all in spec. My TD was about the same maybe > slightly better. > > -Rolf > > On 06/03/2010 09:52 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: >> So why did the speedometer start reading too high after I swapped out the >> 83 >> trannie for an 85? >> That's the mystery... >> >> Also, the engine runs perfectly - starts instantly, great power, etc. - >> and >> there are no obvious symptoms associated with with lower fuel economy. By >> playing with IP timing, etc.don't I risk sacrificing performance? >> >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Rolf wrote: >> >> >>> Kaleb though correct. Speedo is geared to the rear diff not the >>> transmission. All auto trans in the W123 have the same gearing anyways. >>> That >>> MPG is not far off what we saw in our wagon. The 85 benefits from the >>> 2.88 >>> rear diff making for better over the road economy. >>> >>> IP timing, cam timing, injectors, prechambers, fuel pressure relief valve >>> are all good places to start. Most of those don't cost an arm and a leg. >>> >>> What kind of shipping options do I get? >>> >>> :D >>> >>> On 05/25/2010 06:43 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: >>> >>> Thats what I would think. Does the gearing in the tranny itself have any bearing on the speedo? I thought they speedo was geared for the rear end in the car? but not sure if the tranny has any affect on it. pm7...@comcast.net wrote: > Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > > > >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Probably didn't notice it before? If the odo is correct then its a problem with your speedo. I wouldn't "play" with any of the timing, I would just make sure its all in spec. My TD was about the same maybe slightly better. -Rolf On 06/03/2010 09:52 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: So why did the speedometer start reading too high after I swapped out the 83 trannie for an 85? That's the mystery... Also, the engine runs perfectly - starts instantly, great power, etc. - and there are no obvious symptoms associated with with lower fuel economy. By playing with IP timing, etc.don't I risk sacrificing performance? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Rolf wrote: Kaleb though correct. Speedo is geared to the rear diff not the transmission. All auto trans in the W123 have the same gearing anyways. That MPG is not far off what we saw in our wagon. The 85 benefits from the 2.88 rear diff making for better over the road economy. IP timing, cam timing, injectors, prechambers, fuel pressure relief valve are all good places to start. Most of those don't cost an arm and a leg. What kind of shipping options do I get? :D On 05/25/2010 06:43 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Thats what I would think. Does the gearing in the tranny itself have any bearing on the speedo? I thought they speedo was geared for the rear end in the car? but not sure if the tranny has any affect on it. pm7...@comcast.net wrote: Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
So why did the speedometer start reading too high after I swapped out the 83 trannie for an 85? That's the mystery... Also, the engine runs perfectly - starts instantly, great power, etc. - and there are no obvious symptoms associated with with lower fuel economy. By playing with IP timing, etc.don't I risk sacrificing performance? On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Rolf wrote: > Kaleb though correct. Speedo is geared to the rear diff not the > transmission. All auto trans in the W123 have the same gearing anyways. That > MPG is not far off what we saw in our wagon. The 85 benefits from the 2.88 > rear diff making for better over the road economy. > > IP timing, cam timing, injectors, prechambers, fuel pressure relief valve > are all good places to start. Most of those don't cost an arm and a leg. > > What kind of shipping options do I get? > > :D > > On 05/25/2010 06:43 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > >> Thats what I would think. Does the gearing in the tranny itself have any >> bearing on the speedo? I thought they speedo was geared for the rear end in >> the car? but not sure if the tranny has any affect on it. >> >> pm7...@comcast.net wrote: >> >>> Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... >>> >>> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Kaleb though correct. Speedo is geared to the rear diff not the transmission. All auto trans in the W123 have the same gearing anyways. That MPG is not far off what we saw in our wagon. The 85 benefits from the 2.88 rear diff making for better over the road economy. IP timing, cam timing, injectors, prechambers, fuel pressure relief valve are all good places to start. Most of those don't cost an arm and a leg. What kind of shipping options do I get? :D On 05/25/2010 06:43 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Thats what I would think. Does the gearing in the tranny itself have any bearing on the speedo? I thought they speedo was geared for the rear end in the car? but not sure if the tranny has any affect on it. pm7...@comcast.net wrote: Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
Definitely a lovable purrball. Have you ever noticed that black cats know they can hide in shadows? We had one that would sit on a dark part of a rug at night and knew that she would dissapear when she closed her eyes... She also slinked around in the shadows. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 25, 2010, at 18:03, andrew strasfogel wrote: If you Googled you'd see what I mean: http://cats.suite101.com/article.cfm/bombay_cats On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:26 PM, John Reames wrote: Minipanther? Sounds like another way of fluffing up "lovable purrball" to me -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 25, 2010, at 14:49, andrew strasfogel wrote: ROFLMAO! Lots of luck getting any tomatoes out of my back yard in June, notwithstanding generous application of composted minipanther droppings... On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Andrew, I was thinking that the answer is an inaccurate odometer, but now I realize that your speedometer AND odometer would have to read less miles than actually driven in order to cause your mileage calculation to drop. If your speedometer is reading fast (you say reads 70 when you're actually going 60), and if the odometer is similarly recording a higher number of miles than actually driven, that would inflate your mileage rather than deflate. My new answer is that you should sell the car to me for $500 because the fuel consumption is not 21 mpg but 18 mpg or worse. Put the box of tomatoes and any other fresh vegetables you'd like to send in the back, I'll be in WDC area next week to pick up the car. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive "What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. Also, there is no black smoke. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel- with an incentive
I remember Marshal saying that a clogged fuel filter will increase fuel consumption -- On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:19 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > Even if the engine runs and starts flawlessly, with no coughing or > hesitation? There is crud in the tank, but this only manifests itself when > the gauge is on reserve (car stalls out or loses power). I changed the > fuel > screen last year but the tank itself is probably in need of cleaning.. > > Hey - could this be the source of my fuel economy problem?? > > -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel- with an incentive
Even if the engine runs and starts flawlessly, with no coughing or hesitation? There is crud in the tank, but this only manifests itself when the gauge is on reserve (car stalls out or loses power). I changed the fuel screen last year but the tank itself is probably in need of cleaning.. Hey - could this be the source of my fuel economy problem?? On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: > Always check/replace filters (fuel and air) first ... start with the cheap > and easy stuff. > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] > On Behalf Of Peter Frederick > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 14:23 > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel- > with an incentive > > Here is a list of things that reduce milage on an older Benz: > > Slipping odometer -- low recorded mileage hence low "consumption per mile". > > Slipping transmission (should be fixed, but check) > > Late injection timing -- this will result in lower than normal injector > noise at idle and smoke a full throttle/high speed only, not low speed. If > due to chain stretch, you also have low power due to lack of compression > from late valve timing in addition. Both eat fuel. > > Dragging brakes, usually the rears since you will feel a dragging front > brake in the steering > > Worn out suspension parts resulting in poor or variable alignment and > dragging tires. May be front or rear or both, but check it all out. > Expensive to fix, alas, but makes the car drive MUCH better and safer. > > Leaking valves (that is, valve job time) resulting in low compression. > Usually causes hard cold starts and smoke at low rpm, but not high as the > turbo compensates. > > Tired turbo, or worse tired boost control spring so you have poor boost. > This lowers the volumetric efficiency quite a bit, using more fuel than > necessary. Logging driving too. Don't adjust for more than 12.5 psi boost > (0.9 atm) or you will beat the rods out of it, it's old. > > A worn injection pump can also do you in, but that causes other problems > you > don't have. > > The most likely are late timing and worn out suspension parts. > > Peter > > > -----Original Message- > >From: andrew strasfogel > >Sent: May 25, 2010 1:57 PM > >To: Mercedes Discussion List > >Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel > - > with an incentive > > > >"What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? > > > >Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on > the > >odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. > > > >Also, there is no black smoke. > > > >With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I > only > >swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way better > than > >the old 83 trannie).. > >On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV > SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, > >53310 wrote: > > > >> I think this is the answer... > >> > >> -Max > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > >> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM > >> To: Mercedes Discussion List > >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > >> turbodiesel - with an incentive > >> > >> Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Peter Arnold > >> > >> Windsor, CT > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "andrew strasfogel" > >> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > >> Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - > >> with an incentive > >> > >> My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, > >> starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel > >> leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial > >> showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg > >> for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 > >> mpg or even less. > >> :(( > >> > >> Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly > >> sacrifi
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel- with an incentive
Always check/replace filters (fuel and air) first ... start with the cheap and easy stuff. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 14:23 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel- with an incentive Here is a list of things that reduce milage on an older Benz: Slipping odometer -- low recorded mileage hence low "consumption per mile". Slipping transmission (should be fixed, but check) Late injection timing -- this will result in lower than normal injector noise at idle and smoke a full throttle/high speed only, not low speed. If due to chain stretch, you also have low power due to lack of compression from late valve timing in addition. Both eat fuel. Dragging brakes, usually the rears since you will feel a dragging front brake in the steering Worn out suspension parts resulting in poor or variable alignment and dragging tires. May be front or rear or both, but check it all out. Expensive to fix, alas, but makes the car drive MUCH better and safer. Leaking valves (that is, valve job time) resulting in low compression. Usually causes hard cold starts and smoke at low rpm, but not high as the turbo compensates. Tired turbo, or worse tired boost control spring so you have poor boost. This lowers the volumetric efficiency quite a bit, using more fuel than necessary. Logging driving too. Don't adjust for more than 12.5 psi boost (0.9 atm) or you will beat the rods out of it, it's old. A worn injection pump can also do you in, but that causes other problems you don't have. The most likely are late timing and worn out suspension parts. Peter -Original Message- >From: andrew strasfogel >Sent: May 25, 2010 1:57 PM >To: Mercedes Discussion List >Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive > >"What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? > >Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the >odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. > >Also, there is no black smoke. > >With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I only >swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way better than >the old 83 trannie).. >On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >53310 wrote: > >> I think this is the answer... >> >> -Max >> >> -Original Message- >> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >> turbodiesel - with an incentive >> >> Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Arnold >> >> Windsor, CT >> >> - Original Message ----- >> From: "andrew strasfogel" >> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - >> with an incentive >> >> My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, >> starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel >> leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial >> showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg >> for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 >> mpg or even less. >> :(( >> >> Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly >> sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally >> inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement >> transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By >> contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) >> >> Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a >> leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) >> delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. >> >> Andrew >> 1983 300TD >> 1985 300TD >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> _
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
He probably needs to swap the back plate from the old tranny to the new one, which will also put the gearing back right I think. An easy job while the tranny is out, not so easy while its installed. Jim Cathey wrote: Speedometer reads 10 mph too fast (e.g., 70 when traveling 60) but the odometer appears to be accurate. I was told there needs to be an adjustment made to the transmisasion to recitfy this but I am dubious. The odo and speedo feed from the same place. If only one is wrong, the problem is _not_ on the tranny end. Double or triple check your odometer. Faster == farther, so if both are wrong 16% you just went up to 24.5 mpg. Find a measured mile marker road and travel on it. (Interstates are good.) 10 miles will tell you plenty. Or your speedo head could just have drifted out of adjustment. But I'm betting both are actually wrong, in which case it _is_ the tranny sending gear. Given that 1985 machines have a different rear end and thus would require a different transmission sender gear I'm betting that your odo is also wrong, as is all your MPG calculation. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Thats what I would think. Does the gearing in the tranny itself have any bearing on the speedo? I thought they speedo was geared for the rear end in the car? but not sure if the tranny has any affect on it. pm7...@comcast.net wrote: Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
If you Googled you'd see what I mean: http://cats.suite101.com/article.cfm/bombay_cats On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:26 PM, John Reames wrote: > Minipanther? Sounds like another way of fluffing up "lovable purrball" to > me > > > -- > John W Reames > jwrea...@comcast.net > Home: +14106646986 > Mobile: +14437915905 > > On May 25, 2010, at 14:49, andrew strasfogel > wrote: > > ROFLMAO! >> >> Lots of luck getting any tomatoes out of my back yard in June, >> notwithstanding generous application of composted minipanther droppings... >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV >> SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >> 53310 wrote: >> >> Andrew, >>> >>> I was thinking that the answer is an inaccurate odometer, but now I >>> realize that your speedometer AND odometer would have to read less miles >>> than actually driven in order to cause your mileage calculation to drop. >>> If your speedometer is reading fast (you say reads 70 when you're >>> actually going 60), and if the odometer is similarly recording a higher >>> number of miles than actually driven, that would inflate your mileage >>> rather than deflate. >>> >>> My new answer is that you should sell the car to me for $500 because the >>> fuel consumption is not 21 mpg but 18 mpg or worse. Put the box of >>> tomatoes and any other fresh vegetables you'd like to send in the back, >>> I'll be in WDC area next week to pick up the car. >>> >>> -Max >>> >>> -Original Message----- >>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:57 PM >>> To: Mercedes Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >>> turbodiesel -with an incentive >>> >>> "What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? >>> >>> Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on >>> the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my >>> MPG. >>> >>> Also, there is no black smoke. >>> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
Minipanther? Sounds like another way of fluffing up "lovable purrball" to me -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 25, 2010, at 14:49, andrew strasfogel wrote: ROFLMAO! Lots of luck getting any tomatoes out of my back yard in June, notwithstanding generous application of composted minipanther droppings... On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Andrew, I was thinking that the answer is an inaccurate odometer, but now I realize that your speedometer AND odometer would have to read less miles than actually driven in order to cause your mileage calculation to drop. If your speedometer is reading fast (you say reads 70 when you're actually going 60), and if the odometer is similarly recording a higher number of miles than actually driven, that would inflate your mileage rather than deflate. My new answer is that you should sell the car to me for $500 because the fuel consumption is not 21 mpg but 18 mpg or worse. Put the box of tomatoes and any other fresh vegetables you'd like to send in the back, I'll be in WDC area next week to pick up the car. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive "What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. Also, there is no black smoke. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
ROFLMAO! Lots of luck getting any tomatoes out of my back yard in June, notwithstanding generous application of composted minipanther droppings... On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > Andrew, > > I was thinking that the answer is an inaccurate odometer, but now I > realize that your speedometer AND odometer would have to read less miles > than actually driven in order to cause your mileage calculation to drop. > If your speedometer is reading fast (you say reads 70 when you're > actually going 60), and if the odometer is similarly recording a higher > number of miles than actually driven, that would inflate your mileage > rather than deflate. > > My new answer is that you should sell the car to me for $500 because the > fuel consumption is not 21 mpg but 18 mpg or worse. Put the box of > tomatoes and any other fresh vegetables you'd like to send in the back, > I'll be in WDC area next week to pick up the car. > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:57 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > turbodiesel -with an incentive > > "What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? > > Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on > the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my > MPG. > > Also, there is no black smoke. > > With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I > only swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way > better than the old 83 trannie).. > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV > SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > > > I think this is the answer... > > > > -Max > > > > -Original Message- > > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > > > Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > > > > > > -- > > > > Peter Arnold > > > > Windsor, CT > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "andrew strasfogel" > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel > > - with an incentive > > > > My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, > > starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel > > leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial > > showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 > > mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's > > around 18 mpg or even less. > > :(( > > > > Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would > > gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are > > > normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a > > replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's > > relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) > > > > Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and > > a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) > > > delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. > > > > Andrew > > 1983 300TD > > 1985 300TD > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > > http://www.okiebenz.com/a
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive
Andrew, I was thinking that the answer is an inaccurate odometer, but now I realize that your speedometer AND odometer would have to read less miles than actually driven in order to cause your mileage calculation to drop. If your speedometer is reading fast (you say reads 70 when you're actually going 60), and if the odometer is similarly recording a higher number of miles than actually driven, that would inflate your mileage rather than deflate. My new answer is that you should sell the car to me for $500 because the fuel consumption is not 21 mpg but 18 mpg or worse. Put the box of tomatoes and any other fresh vegetables you'd like to send in the back, I'll be in WDC area next week to pick up the car. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel -with an incentive "What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. Also, there is no black smoke. With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I only swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way better than the old 83 trannie).. On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > I think this is the answer... > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > > > -- > > Peter Arnold > > Windsor, CT > > - Original Message - > From: "andrew strasfogel" > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel > - with an incentive > > My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, > starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel > leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial > showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 > mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's > around 18 mpg or even less. > :(( > > Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would > gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are > normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a > replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's > relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) > > Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and > a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) > delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. > > Andrew > 1983 300TD > 1985 300TD > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Here is a list of things that reduce milage on an older Benz: Slipping odometer -- low recorded mileage hence low "consumption per mile". Slipping transmission (should be fixed, but check) Late injection timing -- this will result in lower than normal injector noise at idle and smoke a full throttle/high speed only, not low speed. If due to chain stretch, you also have low power due to lack of compression from late valve timing in addition. Both eat fuel. Dragging brakes, usually the rears since you will feel a dragging front brake in the steering Worn out suspension parts resulting in poor or variable alignment and dragging tires. May be front or rear or both, but check it all out. Expensive to fix, alas, but makes the car drive MUCH better and safer. Leaking valves (that is, valve job time) resulting in low compression. Usually causes hard cold starts and smoke at low rpm, but not high as the turbo compensates. Tired turbo, or worse tired boost control spring so you have poor boost. This lowers the volumetric efficiency quite a bit, using more fuel than necessary. Logging driving too. Don't adjust for more than 12.5 psi boost (0.9 atm) or you will beat the rods out of it, it's old. A worn injection pump can also do you in, but that causes other problems you don't have. The most likely are late timing and worn out suspension parts. Peter -Original Message- >From: andrew strasfogel >Sent: May 25, 2010 1:57 PM >To: Mercedes Discussion List >Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - >with an incentive > >"What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? > >Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the >odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. > >Also, there is no black smoke. > >With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I only >swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way better than >the old 83 trannie).. >On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, >53310 wrote: > >> I think this is the answer... >> >> -Max >> >> -Original Message- >> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com >> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 >> turbodiesel - with an incentive >> >> Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Arnold >> >> Windsor, CT >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "andrew strasfogel" >> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - >> with an incentive >> >> My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, >> starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel >> leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial >> showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg >> for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 >> mpg or even less. >> :(( >> >> Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly >> sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally >> inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement >> transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By >> contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) >> >> Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a >> leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) >> delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. >> >> Andrew >> 1983 300TD >> 1985 300TD >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives >> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> __
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
"What" is the answer that you are referring to, Max?? Anyway, a faster-appearing speedometer should result in HIGHER miles on the odometer per unit of fuel. If anything, I am UNDERcalculating my MPG. Also, there is no black smoke. With regard to the torque converter, it's from the 1983 drive train; I only swapped out the transmission for a 1985 model (and BTW it is way better than the old 83 trannie).. On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: > I think this is the answer... > > -Max > > -Original Message- > From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com > [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 > turbodiesel - with an incentive > > Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > > > -- > > Peter Arnold > > Windsor, CT > > - Original Message - > From: "andrew strasfogel" > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - > with an incentive > > My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, > starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel > leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial > showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg > for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 > mpg or even less. > :(( > > Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly > sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally > inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement > transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By > contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) > > Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a > leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) > delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. > > Andrew > 1983 300TD > 1985 300TD > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives > http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
I think this is the answer... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of pm7...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... -- Peter Arnold Windsor, CT - Original Message - From: "andrew strasfogel" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 mpg or even less. :(( Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. Andrew 1983 300TD 1985 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
John Reames wrote: Hmmm.. What's the 0-60 speed like on each of them? Can you try disconnecting the overboost sensor (the single wire on top of the intake manifold); they fail and basically kill the boost... It kills the ALDA signal, so you get boost without fuel enrichment. Your only chance at generating fuel wasting smoke without boost signal to the ALDA would be when starting from a standstill before the turbo makes any boost. I would expect MPG to go up and power to go down if the overboost solenoid was continuously in action. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Hmmm.. What's the 0-60 speed like on each of them? Can you try disconnecting the overboost sensor (the single wire on top of the intake manifold); they fail and basically kill the boost... Having a plugged Alda line or a weak wastegate spring could also kill boost... (the spring can be adjusted)... I suspect that losing the boost would have an adverse effect upon mileage... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 25, 2010, at 10:07, andrew strasfogel wrote: My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 mpg or even less. :(( Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. Andrew 1983 300TD 1985 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Speedometer reads 10 mph too fast (e.g., 70 when traveling 60) but the odometer appears to be accurate. I was told there needs to be an adjustment made to the transmisasion to recitfy this but I am dubious. The odo and speedo feed from the same place. If only one is wrong, the problem is _not_ on the tranny end. Double or triple check your odometer. Faster == farther, so if both are wrong 16% you just went up to 24.5 mpg. Find a measured mile marker road and travel on it. (Interstates are good.) 10 miles will tell you plenty. Or your speedo head could just have drifted out of adjustment. But I'm betting both are actually wrong, in which case it _is_ the tranny sending gear. Given that 1985 machines have a different rear end and thus would require a different transmission sender gear I'm betting that your odo is also wrong, as is all your MPG calculation. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Timing, both cam and IP, have much to do with MPG. Also, smoke = wasted fuel. Could be your ALDA is set more for peppy off the line performance than for MPG. Dragging brakes and low tire pressure don't help either. I hope the car still has a 1983 torque converter in it. (but a failed converter will cost you MPG) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Speedometer reads 10 mph too fast (e.g., 70 when traveling 60) but the odometer appears to be accurate. I was told there needs to be an adjustment made to the transmisasion to recitfy this but I am dubious. I also checked using measured fuel from the time the reserve tank light came on. On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:34 AM, wrote: > Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... > > > -- > > Peter Arnold > > Windsor, CT > > - Original Message - > From: "andrew strasfogel" > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - > with an incentive > > My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, > starts > instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel leaks. In other > words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial showroom floor. Yet, > the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg for pure highway > driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 mpg or even less. > :(( > > Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly > sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally > inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement transmission > from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD > achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) > > Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg > wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) delivered > free to any address in the lower 48 states. > > Andrew > 1983 300TD > 1985 300TD > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
Tranny swap? Check Speedometer accuracy... -- Peter Arnold Windsor, CT - Original Message - From: "andrew strasfogel" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:07:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 mpg or even less. :(( Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. Andrew 1983 300TD 1985 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] ISO a fix for lousy fuel economy in a W123 turbodiesel - with an incentive
My 1983 300TD wagon with 225,000 miles on the engine has great power, starts instantly, accelerates quickly, and has no discernible fuel leaks. In other words, it drives like the day it left the proverbial showroom floor. Yet, the best fuel economy I can manage is barely 21 mpg for pure highway driving. Around town and in the winter it's around 18 mpg or even less. :(( Are there any engine adjustments to improve fuel economy? I would gladly sacrifice some power to improve this by 2- 4 mpg. The tires are normally inflated and I drive conservatively. The car has a replacement transmission from a 1985 300 turbodiesel, if that's relevant. By contrast, my 1985 300TD achieves 26 mpg on the road. :) Whoever comes up with a working solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg wins a box of organically heirloom tomatoes or peppers (or both) delivered free to any address in the lower 48 states. Andrew 1983 300TD 1985 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
