Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

Bad fuel will do that too, where were you getting it? I've found that only Shell or the local Coop fuel is very good, all the truck stop type places appear to sell typical US diesel which does not meet German standards. European diesel is 50 Cetane, typical truck stop fuel in the US is around

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

Yes, I think it was too advanced. I had tried to set it using the bubble method about a year ago, engine was cold. After a while, the engine started running rough, lots of nailing and smoking. Diesel purge would clear it right up, but only for a month or so. Yesterday I checked it while

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

You retarded the injection timing from where you were used to having it, and you're not too happy with the results? How about doing what an old Saab mechanic I knew insisted on doing with ignition timing and set it where it runs best? (which is often a bit more advanced than factory, on a 30

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

I think the factory has determined it is negligible. These engines can run even if they are 45º out of time. Craig via Mercedes January 7, 2017 at 1:43 PM On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 10:33:11 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes Certainly, the metal parts will change size

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 10:33:11 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > Wouldn't the timing chain tension change when hot? If the timing chain > tension changes, then the pump timing could change? Certainly, the metal parts will change size with temperature, meaning the

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

Ok, slop in the locking tool is right. I removed the nut and spring part, so the barrel with the slot could be used as a measuring tool to test engagement with the tooth on the pump shaft. I found that the tool would begin to engage the tooth, then fully engage, and then not quite engage,

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

"Hot" engine, locking tool says 13.5 degrees ATDC. I'll retard to 14.5. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

This is the tool I have http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/268726-riv-timing-tool-purchase.html Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2017, at 11:18 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Kleb has the "dealer" dongle, I think. > >> Peter Frederick

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

Kleb has the "dealer" dongle, I think. Peter Frederick via Mercedes January 7, 2017 at 11:16 AM There are two instruments, the static one and the dynamic one. Dynamic one was dealer only as a rule, probably too expensive for independent shops. Both work by

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

There are two instruments, the static one and the dynamic one. Dynamic one was dealer only as a rule, probably too expensive for independent shops. Both work by sensing the position of the lug on the governor shaft that is also used to lock the pump. Peter

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

I tried to set it using the bubble method, I was less than happy with how that went, cold engine. I found it difficult to find the start of injection point, when the bubbles were supposed to stop. I checked it with the locking pin, I think it was off according to the pin position, so I set it

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

I always check it several times to make sure I have repeatability before I consider timing set. Peter Frederick via Mercedes January 7, 2017 at 10:13 AM No instructions in the manual for "manual" injection pump timing for the 60x engines, at least not in the one

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

What is the method that uses the a b light deal? I have one of those and have used it a few times but it's been a while. I don't recall the engine running though, it was more of a rotate engine till a light comes on, then continue till both are on, if you keep going till only b is lit you went

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

the 126 cds have the IP lock method and the dynamic method. I never read through the dynamic instruction because I don't have one. I use my modified drip tube method (without drip tube) successfully. Peter Frederick via Mercedes January 7, 2017 at 10:13 AM No

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

No instructions in the manual for "manual" injection pump timing for the 60x engines, at least not in the one I have. Injection pump should be locked using the MB tool with engine set a 15 degrees ATDC to R , and you can use the tool to set the timing more or less accurately using the tool

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

Static timing is always cold or somewhat warm <100ºF I never had one of those dynamic dealies, so it may vary, but obviously the engine is running. From OM621 to OM60x I never say anything in the manual about warm or cold, so I don't think it matter. You can do experiment and do both and

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

That's what I had always thought, but after setting the pump timing cold, I'm not too happy with the results, so I was wondering if it should be done on a hot engine. Careful reading of the FSM for OM60x indicates that it is checked when the engine is at idle, and then adjusted if necessary, so

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

On a Benz, it does not matter. On my old Volvo with a "cold start" device, either hot or with the cold start disconnected (it advanced the timing quite a bit cold). Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

[MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - Hot or Cold?

OK guys, here's my question of the day: Should the diesel injection pump timing be tested / set when the engine is hot, or cold, or does it not matter at all? - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

an improvement. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:21 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method Today I did something

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my E300 using the millivolt method. My goal is to improve fuel consumption. The glow-plugs will produce a very small voltage when heated, due

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Max Dillon wrote: Bust. Fuel consumption is slightly worse, probably about 5% or 10% worse, after about 1500 miles of driving. Retarding the timing always does that, unless you were seriously overadvanced to begin with. Advancing gains MPG at the expense of increased peak cylinder

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:21 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my E300 using the millivolt method. My goal is to improve fuel consumption. The glow-plugs will produce

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Factory. Last year of the 124 line got the next generation engine, which was used until 1999 or so. Non-turbo in my car, was turbo variant in later years. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, Max Dillon

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Craig wrote: You certainly could monitor the voltage while driving and maybe even rig up something to make the adjustment, but I think you might want to monitor other things, too. Maybe rig some sort of throttle stop so that you could use the exact same throttle setting on successive runs? I

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Max Dillon wrote: I timed a couple of 0-60 runs, with full tank of fuel and extra passenger (daughter), and the car is about half a second faster. Attaboy! Of course, the timing may have been off before I started this experiment. Guaranteed if retarding it made an improvement. Proper

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

So what 0-60 times does Caterpillar attain? ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:34:39 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Craig wrote: What car is this? For a W123, the phrase three complete clock-wise wrench revolutions doesn't apply. He says, ... my E300 ... *grin* Uhhh ... so he did. Craig ___

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:39:12 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Optimizing for cruising efficiency is the goal, I just may have to repeat and make adjustment based on measurements at load. Would be nice to have access to a dyno stand... That's what I thought, too. Craig

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:25:28 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: There is an incredibly long difficult thread on peach parts forum that I read long ago. I've always wanted to try the method. On that forum, the 123 crowd found the injection pump nearly impossible to adjust on a

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Max wrote: Origin is Caterpillar, apparently that is how they set injection pump timing at the factory. WILTON wrote: So what 0-60 times does Caterpillar attain? ;) Caterpillar has made engines for big trucks for a lot of years. And they now are selling 'em. So 0-60 MPH is a

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Depends on how big your crowbar is.(no, I don't recommend this method...) On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:25:28 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: There is an incredibly long difficult thread on peach parts forum that I read long ago. I've always wanted to try the method. On

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Car is a 124 sedan with OM606 engine Huh? 602? 603? Engine swap? Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Rick Knoble wrote: On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Car is a 124 sedan with OM606 engine Huh? 602? 603? Engine swap? 604/605/606 are the four valve per cylinder versions of 601/602/603. I think 606 NA was first introduced to USA in the 1995 W1214.

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Oh yeah. I forgot Max drives a '95. Rick Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:07 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Rick Knoble wrote: On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Car is a 124 sedan with OM606 engine Huh? 602? 603? Engine swap?

[MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my E300 using the millivolt method. My goal is to improve fuel consumption. The glow-plugs will produce a very small voltage when heated, due to the dissimilar metals used to make them. Measuring this voltage (~12 to 13 millivolts

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:20:46 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my E300 using the millivolt method. My goal is to improve fuel consumption. Interesting idea. Did you read about it some place, or think it up on your

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Indeed we will! I do wonder whether optimizing at idle will yield the desired results. It all depends on the accuracy of the mechanical advance, and whether it is even possible to optimize both idel and cruising power in an analog system. We will be awaiting your test results. Craig

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:42:59 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed we will! I do wonder whether optimizing at idle will yield the desired results. It all depends on the accuracy of the mechanical advance, and whether it is even possible to optimize both idel and cruising power in an

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

There is an incredibly long difficult thread on peach parts forum that I read long ago. I've always wanted to try the method. On that forum, the 123 crowd found the injection pump nearly impossible to adjust on a running engine n Car is a 124 sedan with OM606 engine, which has a simple

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

I timed a couple of 0-60 runs, with full tank of fuel and extra passenger (daughter), and the car is about half a second faster. Of course, the timing may have been off before I started this experiment. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed we

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Yes, thought about trying that. Would need a long empty flat road, as the voltage takes a few minutes to stabilize. In college I had a Datsun B210 or something like that, and set the ignition timing by field test. Time a 0-60 run, move timing, repeat until fastest time achieved. -- Max

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Max Dillon wrote Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my E300 using the millivolt method. My goal is to improve fuel consumption. Craig wrote: What car is this? For a W123, the phrase three complete clock-wise wrench revolutions doesn't apply. He says, ...

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Optimizing for cruising efficiency is the goal, I just may have to repeat and make adjustment based on measurements at load. Would be nice to have access to a dyno stand... -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed we will! I do wonder whether

Re: [MBZ] Injection Pump Timing by millivolt method

Problem with the OM61x engines is the lack of an adjusting mechanism on the pump to facilitate adjustments on a running engine. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Max Dillon wrote Today I did something new: set the injection pump timing on my

[MBZ] Injection Pump Timing - for Bill R

Wisdom gleaned from the finger tips of the late Dr. Booth and others Bubble method! On the subject of diesel timing: If you are replacing the pump or rebuilding the engine, the simplest and most accurate way of setting the pump is: Disconnect the fuel line going into the pump from the

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

on 6/21/06 3:59 PM, David Brodbeck at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve MacSween wrote: When I say eating, I mean that for how the fuel gauge drops, I should be smelling a massive leak somewhere, but no such luck. Dumb question: Are you sure the gauge is correct? Diesel sludge accumulates

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616 on 6/21/06 3:59 PM, David Brodbeck at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

on 6/21/06 10:19 AM, LarryT at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you say it's eating fuel I assume you mean it's getting poor fuel mileage? It's been my experience on my '78 240D is it gets 24-26mpg - and this is with a perfect engine. The engine was rebuilt 30k miles ago and everything was

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

on 6/20/06 4:05 PM, Marshall Booth at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4. Is it possible for IP timing to test out okay at rest, in a static (drip) test, but be off under running conditions? Only if the timer is bad. If it's bad, it needs to be REPLACED. Do you have a reference for that procedure

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

In a message dated 6/21/2006 8:24:01 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When you say it's eating fuel I assume you mean it's getting poor fuel mileage? It's been my experience on my '78 240D is it gets 24-26mpg - and this is with a perfect engine. The engine

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

on 6/21/06 11:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't put too much stock in the PO's comment that the IP timing is dead on. He may have overlooked a step, or his interpretation of the beginning of stroke was flawed. Do it yourself. Didn't you adjust your valves

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 11:22:54AM -0400, Steve MacSween wrote: What I mean is using nearly quarter of a tank of fuel for 3-4 hours idling time. Actually it probably uses more at idle (when it still has the miss) than on the road. If it uses massively more at idle than when on the throttle,

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

rumor has it that [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do it yourself. Didn't you adjust your valves yourself? Also, check timing chain stretch. The 616 requires manual oil additions to the injection pump. A low oil level could be causing problems with the governor and rack. I don't think

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

Steve MacSween wrote: When I say eating, I mean that for how the fuel gauge drops, I should be smelling a massive leak somewhere, but no such luck. Dumb question: Are you sure the gauge is correct? Diesel sludge accumulates on the sender and produces all kinds of bizarre behavior.

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

Steve MacSween wrote: on 6/20/06 4:05 PM, Marshall Booth at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4. Is it possible for IP timing to test out okay at rest, in a static (drip) test, but be off under running conditions? Only if the timer is bad. If it's bad, it needs to be REPLACED. Do you have a

[MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

Back to my sick 240d... which I am pleased to say continues to recover by degrees, but I'm not making any success announcements yet. I drive it for an hour every day. The smoking problem is just about finished. In fact, I am increasingly of a mind that what I had/have here, was two problems.

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing OM616

You must check the timing chain for wear (stretch) and verify the injection timing. If the chain is worn, pull a new one in and re-check the timing, it will be faster with a new chain. Timing is adjusted by loosening the three bolts or nuts holding the pump in place and rotating it -- toward

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing

rumor has it that Marshall wrote: Fmiser wrote: Sorry to post an off topic question. It's about a Mercedes, not guns, hard-drives, gmail, or dogs. *grin* This is on a W123 240D, OM616. Rack is at full throttle, shut-off vacuum is disconnected. Anything else that I'm missing? Or

[MBZ] Injection pump timing

Sorry to post an off topic question. It's about a Mercedes, not guns, hard-drives, gmail, or dogs. *grin* This is on a W123 240D, OM616. Rusty got me the correct timing chain and I have the car mostly back together. (see subject DEEP trouble changing my...) Because of those troubles I pulled

Re: [MBZ] Injection pump timing

Fmiser wrote: Sorry to post an off topic question. It's about a Mercedes, not guns, hard-drives, gmail, or dogs. *grin* This is on a W123 240D, OM616. Rusty got me the correct timing chain and I have the car mostly back together. (see subject DEEP trouble changing my...) Because of those