Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On July 8, 2017 at 6:00 PM Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
 
> 
> Sure circulate as you wish.
> 
> I know why O’Sullivan has a bad name and most of it is unjustified.
> There are too many skeptics who have become as dogmatic as the alarmists.
> Global warming became a career for many skeptics as much as it did for
> the alarmists, just not the same government hand outs. 
> 
> Tim B
>

Thanks. 
I'd never heard of O'Sullivan before and therefore had no preconceived notions 
about him, but that piece he wrote was much more sensational than journalistic. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Excellent info!


Craig via Mercedes 
July 8, 2017 at 5:00 PM
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
  wrote:


On July 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM Craig via Mercedes
wrote:
https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/

Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
Humiliated In Canadian Court

While the claims made in that article warm my heart, it is written by a
personal friend of Dr Ball, John O'Sullivan, and the bias shows through
clearly in his writing. A Bing search for news this week regarding
michael mann libel suit canada gave me two results, and it was the same
O'Sullivan article. Of the three web sites, Principia is probably the
least biased against MMGW claims.

It'll be interesting to see how the mainstream scientific and political
left in the USA (from ScienceMag to Huffington to MotherJones) respond
to Sullivan's commentary.

http://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/

http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/07/05/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/




From: Tim Ball
To: global-warming-realists
Subject: Re: [GWR] How should we respond to these bitter-enders?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:57:45 -0700


On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Jim Hollingsworth wrote:

Tim
Just wondering what happened to Michael Mann after he was found in
contempt of court.  Was that the end of the matter, or did he continue
to sue you, or am I in error? Thanks so much
Jim Hollingsworth


Thanks for your question. I know many have concerns about the validity of
the report because of the involvement of John O’Sullivan.

O’Sullivan is mostly correct. We agreed to an adjournment because
Canadian courts always grant them before a trial in the hope of an
out-of-court trial. In return we made certain demands that Mann agreed to
that included producing computer codes and all documents and data used to
create the ‘hockey stick.’ He had to produce these by February 20th, the
original date of the trial. He did not produce them. This is where
O’Sullivan  went a little too far. Technically this puts Mann in contempt
because he is denying me documents I need to prove my innocence. However,
that judgment must be made by the court and we are in the process of
seeking a ruling. He is also denying science the ability to cary out a
test fundamental to the advance of science the reproducibility of
results.

My lawyer and I understand that Mann is claiming that he does not have to
turn over the material because a US court ruled it is his intellectual
property (Cuccinelli State of Virginia against Mann). His problem is that
Canadian courts that he cannot bring a charge against me then refuse
access to material necessary for my defence. It is almost certain they
will rule in my favour but it is not fait accompli.

One court journalist wrote,

  In Canada, contempt sanctions mean the judge must grant Ball
  whatever reasonable remedy he requests to rectify the contempt.
  This means, upon Ball’s application, the court can make a finding
  that Ball’s statement that Mann “belongs in the state pen, not Penn.
  State” is a “precise and true statement of fact.” That’s because
  Canada has the distinctive “Truth Defense”, which mandates that the
  court must rule, upon Ball’s written application, that Mann’s
  failure to produce the documents means Mann hid them out of
  motivation to conceal his crime. Thereafter, because it is ruled
  Mann did commit a crime, the court can do no other (under the legal
  doctrine of “unclean hands”) than dismiss the entire suit and order
  Mann to pay costs and legal fees to Dr. Ball.

I chose the “Truth Defense” precisely because it allowed me to demand
discovery. I could have chosen the Fair Comment” defence which would
result in considerably less damages if I lost but did not allow for
discovery.

Incidentally, I continue to prepare for my third lawsuit (all brought by
members of the IPCC) brought by Andrew Weaver. He was a lead author on
the computer model chapter for four of the IPCC Reports (1995,2001, 2007,
2013). His problem is that since he filed the lawsuit he ran for
political office in British Columbia (BC) and was elected to the
legislature as the leader of the Green Party. He was a member of the BC
Provincial Climate Action Committee that introduced the first carbon tax
in North America. As some members of this group know it has been nothing
but a burdensome cost, especially to the poor. It is not revenue neutral
as claimed and it did not reduce miles driven by any sector of vehicles.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=British+Columbia+carbon+tax+Eschenbach


Weaver is in a difficult position because the history of Canadian courts
is to dismiss scientists who 

Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
 wrote:

> 
> > On July 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM Craig via Mercedes 
> > wrote:
> > https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
> > 
> > Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
> > Humiliated In Canadian Court
> 
> 
> While the claims made in that article warm my heart, it is written by a
> personal friend of Dr Ball, John O'Sullivan, and the bias shows through
> clearly in his writing. A Bing search for news this week regarding
> michael mann libel suit canada gave me two results, and it was the same
> O'Sullivan article. Of the three web sites, Principia is probably the
> least biased against MMGW claims. 
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how the mainstream scientific and political
> left in the USA (from ScienceMag to Huffington to MotherJones) respond
> to Sullivan's commentary. 
> 
> http://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
> 
> http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/07/05/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/



From: Tim Ball
To: global-warming-realists
Subject: Re: [GWR] How should we respond to these bitter-enders?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:57:45 -0700

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Jim Hollingsworth wrote:
> 
> Tim
> Just wondering what happened to Michael Mann after he was found in
> contempt of court.  Was that the end of the matter, or did he continue
> to sue you, or am I in error? Thanks so much
> Jim Hollingsworth

Thanks for your question. I know many have concerns about the validity of
the report because of the involvement of John O’Sullivan. 

O’Sullivan is mostly correct. We agreed to an adjournment because
Canadian courts always grant them before a trial in the hope of an
out-of-court trial. In return we made certain demands that Mann agreed to
that included producing computer codes and all documents and data used to
create the ‘hockey stick.’ He had to produce these by February 20th, the
original date of the trial. He did not produce them. This is where
O’Sullivan  went a little too far. Technically this puts Mann in contempt
because he is denying me documents I need to prove my innocence. However,
that judgment must be made by the court and we are in the process of
seeking a ruling. He is also denying science the ability to cary out a
test fundamental to the advance of science the reproducibility of
results. 

My lawyer and I understand that Mann is claiming that he does not have to
turn over the material because a US court ruled it is his intellectual
property (Cuccinelli State of Virginia against Mann). His problem is that
Canadian courts that he cannot bring a charge against me then refuse
access to material necessary for my defence. It is almost certain they
will rule in my favour but it is not fait accompli.

One court journalist wrote, 

 In Canada, contempt sanctions mean the judge must grant Ball
 whatever reasonable remedy he requests to rectify the contempt.
 This means, upon Ball’s application, the court can make a finding
 that Ball’s statement that Mann “belongs in the state pen, not Penn.
 State” is a “precise and true statement of fact.” That’s because
 Canada has the distinctive “Truth Defense”, which mandates that the
 court must rule, upon Ball’s written application, that Mann’s
 failure to produce the documents means Mann hid them out of
 motivation to conceal his crime. Thereafter, because it is ruled
 Mann did commit a crime, the court can do no other (under the legal
 doctrine of “unclean hands”) than dismiss the entire suit and order
 Mann to pay costs and legal fees to Dr. Ball.

I chose the “Truth Defense” precisely because it allowed me to demand
discovery. I could have chosen the Fair Comment” defence which would
result in considerably less damages if I lost but did not allow for
discovery.

Incidentally, I continue to prepare for my third lawsuit (all brought by
members of the IPCC) brought by Andrew Weaver. He was a lead author on
the computer model chapter for four of the IPCC Reports (1995,2001, 2007,
2013). His problem is that since he filed the lawsuit he ran for
political office in British Columbia (BC) and was elected to the
legislature as the leader of the Green Party. He was a member of the BC
Provincial Climate Action Committee that introduced the first carbon tax
in North America. As some members of this group know it has been nothing
but a burdensome cost, especially to the poor. It is not revenue neutral
as claimed and it did not reduce miles driven by any sector of vehicles.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=British+Columbia+carbon+tax+Eschenbach


Weaver is in a difficult position because the history of Canadian courts
is to dismiss scientists who become politicians as biased by the 

Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Are you now putting evolution in the same category as global warming? You 
really need to start taking your pills again. Next you'll tell us the world is 
5000 years old.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Curley McLain via 
Mercedes wrote:   "People who crusade against basic, 
established science concepts such as
evolution and climate change..."

Well, neither are basic, and neither are "established."  Therin lies the 
problem.  Fake "science" or junk "science" vs real science/reality.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> "People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
> evolution and climate change


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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Thanks for sharing that Craig!

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
>
> https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-
> courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
>
> Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
> Humiliated In Canadian Court
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Gives us something to while away the time while the ice caps are melting
through no fault of our own.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On July 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> > https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-
> courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
> >
> >   Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
> >   Humiliated In Canadian Court
>
>
> While the claims made in that article warm my heart, it is written by a
> personal friend of Dr Ball, John O'Sullivan, and the bias shows through
> clearly in his writing.
>
> A Bing search for news this week regarding michael mann libel suit canada
> gave me two results, and it was the same O'Sullivan article.
> Of the three web sites, Principia is probably the least biased against
> MMGW claims.
>
> It'll be interesting to see how the mainstream scientific and political
> left in the USA (from ScienceMag to Huffington to MotherJones) respond to
> Sullivan's commentary.
>
> http://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-
> act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
>
> http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/07/05/fatal-courtroom-
> act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On July 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
> 
>   Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
>   Humiliated In Canadian Court


While the claims made in that article warm my heart, it is written by a 
personal friend of Dr Ball, John O'Sullivan, and the bias shows through clearly 
in his writing. 
  
A Bing search for news this week regarding michael mann libel suit canada gave 
me two results, and it was the same O'Sullivan article. 
Of the three web sites, Principia is probably the least biased against MMGW 
claims. 

It'll be interesting to see how the mainstream scientific and political left in 
the USA (from ScienceMag to Huffington to MotherJones) respond to Sullivan's 
commentary. 

http://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/

http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/07/05/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/

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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 05 Jul 2017 14:53:31 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Apples, oranges.
> 
> Gravity exists.  One of Newton's laws of physics is about it.  Note the 
> word, LAW.
> 
> "Darwin's theory of evolution" is just that, and unproved theory.  Far 
> from LAW.  Ditto for human influence over climate.  No LAW there.  
> Vacant!   No such thing as "Established" science.  Science has poked 
> gaping holes in Darwin's theory, and the  same for the fraudulent
> claims of human influence on "global warming/climate change/whatever
> the next scam will be"


https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/07/04/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/

Inventor Of Fraudulent Temperature ‘Hockey Stick’ Is
Humiliated In Canadian Court


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

So have you packed your bags yet?

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Apples, oranges.
>
> Gravity exists.  One of Newton's laws of physics is about it.  Note the
> word, LAW.
>
> "Darwin's theory of evolution" is just that, and unproved theory.  Far
> from LAW.  Ditto for human influence over climate.  No LAW there.  Vacant!
>  No such thing as "Established" science.  Science has poked gaping holes in
> Darwin's theory, and the  same for the fraudulent claims of human influence
> on "global warming/climate change/whatever the next scam will be"
>
> Andrew Strasfogel 
>> July 5, 2017 at 2:33 PM
>> And gravity is pretty overrated as well...
>>
>>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Apples, oranges.

Gravity exists.  One of Newton's laws of physics is about it.  Note the 
word, LAW.


"Darwin's theory of evolution" is just that, and unproved theory.  Far 
from LAW.  Ditto for human influence over climate.  No LAW there.  
Vacant!   No such thing as "Established" science.  Science has poked 
gaping holes in Darwin's theory, and the  same for the fraudulent claims 
of human influence on "global warming/climate change/whatever the next 
scam will be"



Andrew Strasfogel 
July 5, 2017 at 2:33 PM
And gravity is pretty overrated as well...



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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

And gravity is pretty overrated as well...

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> "People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
> evolution and climate change..."
>
> Well, neither are basic, and neither are "established."   Therin lies the
> problem.  Fake "science" or junk "science" vs real science/reality.
>
>
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> "People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
>> evolution and climate change
>>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

"People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
evolution and climate change..."

Well, neither are basic, and neither are "established."   Therin lies the problem.  Fake 
"science" or junk "science" vs real science/reality.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

"People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
evolution and climate change



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Re: [MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Yeah, this is going to be a major cluster for the schools.

-D

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> FLORIDAAnyone in state can challenge climate teaching under new lawPublished:
> Wednesday, July 5, 2017
> 
> Anyone in Florida can now challenge what children are learning in school
> after a state law went into effect Saturday.
> 
> All residents of the state can raise concerns about teaching material they
> think is unfit for public school classrooms, and an "unbiased hearing
> officer" would determine whether the complaint has merit as well as
> potentially directing schools to remove controversial books or material.
> 
> In the past, only parents could file complaints, which were then
> adjudicated by school boards.
> 
> Supporters of the new law, including the Florida Citizens' Alliance, have
> disputed school materials that present global warming and evolution as
> reality.
> 
> An opposing group of parents and teachers called Florida Citizens for
> Science is worried that anyone with "an ideological agenda" will be able to
> challenge school materials.
> 
> "People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
> evolution and climate change will have the green light to bog down the
> textbook selection process on the local level and bully school boards into
> compromises that will negatively impact science education," the group wrote
> in a blog post.
> 
> The debate over the teaching of some controversial topics in schools is
> ongoing, with bills meant to change how climate change and other scientific
> theories are presented in education popping up in legislatures in Texas and
> Idaho (Nancy Coleman, CNN
> ,
> July 3). *— SM*
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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[MBZ] Kurley is moving to FL!!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

FLORIDAAnyone in state can challenge climate teaching under new lawPublished:
Wednesday, July 5, 2017

Anyone in Florida can now challenge what children are learning in school
after a state law went into effect Saturday.

All residents of the state can raise concerns about teaching material they
think is unfit for public school classrooms, and an "unbiased hearing
officer" would determine whether the complaint has merit as well as
potentially directing schools to remove controversial books or material.

In the past, only parents could file complaints, which were then
adjudicated by school boards.

Supporters of the new law, including the Florida Citizens' Alliance, have
disputed school materials that present global warming and evolution as
reality.

An opposing group of parents and teachers called Florida Citizens for
Science is worried that anyone with "an ideological agenda" will be able to
challenge school materials.

"People who crusade against basic, established science concepts such as
evolution and climate change will have the green light to bog down the
textbook selection process on the local level and bully school boards into
compromises that will negatively impact science education," the group wrote
in a blog post.

The debate over the teaching of some controversial topics in schools is
ongoing, with bills meant to change how climate change and other scientific
theories are presented in education popping up in legislatures in Texas and
Idaho (Nancy Coleman, CNN
,
July 3). *— SM*
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