Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
I never made it above 3958 feet with Gump, so higher altitude driving is out of my area. Being able to row the gears did allow for very good throttle positioning within the power band so you could climb without needing to lay down a Bondsian amount of sight obscuring fog or letting loose an oil slick. It was by no means quick or snappy, and a healthy amount of velocity going into the climb allowed for a greater chance of reasonable speed during the climb while you regressed down the gears. Never ended up in first, but second was standard after a few miles. clay On Jan 6, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Craig wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:05:40 -0600 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: The earlier W115s have vacuum governors -- if you don't floor the pedal, it will regulate for proper fuel for altitude. I don't know what arrangement the '72 220D/8 had, but one had to pay attention to throttle position to maintain the proper position for maximum power, which was a little before the exhaust smoke increased. The position changed with rpm, so one had to be aware of how the car was operating. However, full throttle overrides the governor. It does lay a pretty good smoke screen! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:05:40 -0600 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: The earlier W115s have vacuum governors -- if you don't floor the pedal, it will regulate for proper fuel for altitude. I believe the NA auto '74 240D (616.xxx) was manual. I seem to recall reading something in the owner's manual about adjusting it over a certain altitude, though I suppose that could have just been a rough adjustment and there was other stuff going on for finer control. The 240D was no rocket, but it would accelerate up every local grade (and there are some decent hills here). I cannot say the same for the '77 300D. However, full throttle overrides the governor. It does lay a pretty good smoke screen! My father used to do this in his diesel Oldsmobile. Interestingly none of my diesels has been so dirty, presumably the ULSD makes it harder to show your disapproval to tailgaters. :) Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
Brian Toscano wrote: NA engines lose 4% of power for every 1000 ft above sea. In Fort Collins you'd be down 20%. Turbo/super charged engines aren't affected as much - maybe 10% total loss even at 10,000 ft. After the turbo spools up. I drove a W123 turbo to the top of Pike's Peak at over 14,000 ft [4270 m] altitude. The car hardly had enough power to move it's shadow until the turbo wound up - then it felt normal. But the transition was pretty abrupt! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
David Bruckmann wrote: The ADA was introduced with the 617.912 in the W123. It was also used on the 4 cylinder OM616. My W123s with OM616 engines all have ADAs. The turbo OM617.95 engines got the ALDA. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
When I drove my 220D cross country in 2003, it had a really hard time on grades up high in Colorado. 30mph in the right lane belching out black smoke getting passed by semis. Still kind of fun. A little adventure:) Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:45 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.com wrote: How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. NA pumps have ADA as opposed to turbo pumps which have ALDA. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 08:29:03 -0500 dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: When I drove my 220D cross country in 2003, it had a really hard time on grades up high in Colorado. 30mph in the right lane belching out black smoke getting passed by semis. You should have backed off the throttle -- you would have gotten more power and better fuel mileage with less smoke. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On my next X country trip I'll keep that in mind:) Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 08:29:03 -0500 dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: When I drove my 220D cross country in 2003, it had a really hard time on grades up high in Colorado. 30mph in the right lane belching out black smoke getting passed by semis. You should have backed off the throttle -- you would have gotten more power and better fuel mileage with less smoke. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
Nope. My '76 300D (617.910) has a manual adjustment knob on the injection pump. Four settings based on altitude. The ADA was introduced with the 617.912 in the W123. Either way, aside from reducing smoke the adjustment/ADA cannot make up for the lowered oxygen density at higher alts. D. Rick wrote: On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.com wrote: How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. NA pumps have ADA as opposed to turbo pumps which have ALDA. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
NA engines lose 4% of power for every 1000 ft above sea. In Fort Collins you'd be down 20%. Turbo/super charged engines aren't affected as much - maybe 10% total loss even at 10,000 ft. On Sunday, January 6, 2013, David Bruckmann wrote: Nope. My '76 300D (617.910) has a manual adjustment knob on the injection pump. Four settings based on altitude. The ADA was introduced with the 617.912 in the W123. Either way, aside from reducing smoke the adjustment/ADA cannot make up for the lowered oxygen density at higher alts. D. Rick wrote: On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. NA pumps have ADA as opposed to turbo pumps which have ALDA. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
I agree with Mr Bruckmann on this. I drove my NA 200D from sealevel to 4000 ft frequently with little problem. Every time I drove a NA Diesel MB into higher altitudes, the performance was bad and so was the smoke. even at 7000 ft, the NA (non ADA) diesels were bad. If I could not find or justify a turboDiesel MB, I'd go for a VW turbodiesel. I crossed the CD with my turboDiesel Quantum and it performed pretty well . Nope. My '76 300D (617.910) has a manual adjustment knob on the injection pump. Four settings based on altitude. The ADA was introduced with the 617.912 in the W123. Either way, aside from reducing smoke the adjustment/ADA cannot make up for the lowered oxygen density at higher alts. D. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
What David said - I don't recall the '70 220D having the altitude adjustment, and thought it was to cool deal when I got the '76 300D. The '81 240D had the ADA - auto adjustment. On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 10:40 AM, David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca wrote: Nope. My '76 300D (617.910) has a manual adjustment knob on the injection pump. Four settings based on altitude. The ADA was introduced with the 617.912 in the W123. Either way, aside from reducing smoke the adjustment/ADA cannot make up for the lowered oxygen density at higher alts. D. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
The earlier W115s have vacuum governors -- if you don't floor the pedal, it will regulate for proper fuel for altitude. However, full throttle overrides the governor. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 22:05:40 -0600 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: The earlier W115s have vacuum governors -- if you don't floor the pedal, it will regulate for proper fuel for altitude. I don't know what arrangement the '72 220D/8 had, but one had to pay attention to throttle position to maintain the proper position for maximum power, which was a little before the exhaust smoke increased. The position changed with rpm, so one had to be aware of how the car was operating. However, full throttle overrides the governor. It does lay a pretty good smoke screen! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
I really want to get a W115 Diesel. Up here in Colorado, there aren't many W123's around, let alone W115's. How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? The '77 240D was quite slow even at sea level, nothing else with which to compare it to know if it was running as it should. Kevin in LaPorte, CO ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.com wrote: How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. NA pumps have ADA as opposed to turbo pumps which have ALDA. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 23:45:32 -0600 Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:27 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.com wrote: How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? They run just fine. I bought our '72 220D/8 in Colorado Springs (6200') and used in later in the Black Forest area (7200') and in the Calhan area (6900'). It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. NA pumps have ADA as opposed to turbo pumps which have ALDA. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Our '72 220D/8 had neither. If you put your foot in it too much, you would over-fuel the combustion process, lowering temperature, lowering power, and increasing smoke. I got very used to modulating the throttle to stay at peak power and minimum smoke. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] NA Diesels in higher altitude was Re: Rejuvenating Long Parked Cars
How would a NA Diesel run up here at 5000FT altitude? Maybe a bit puny? My recollection is that a NA diesel (Ford PU) is a bit overwhelmed in the Denver area. It should run just fine. I *think* Naturally Aspirated (NA) Mercedes have barometric compensation on the injection pumps, so it shouldn't matter. The ADA would keep it from smoking, it wouldn't do a thing to make up for a lack of oxygen. The '77 240D was quite slow even at sea level, nothing else with which to compare it to know if it was running as it should. A stickshift 240D should be quite driveable, if it's anything like our 200D. The 240D automatic I had for awhile was a total slug. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
