Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
The only reason most shops cannot do a Benz driveshaft is that they do not have the correct "ends" to hold it. Only Benz uses that tripod arrangement with flex disk, and the driveshafts just don't go bad that often, so no one has them. Easy to get, just order from the balancer manufacturer, but they are $1500 a set last time I asked (ten years ago). Otherwise, it's just the same as everything else. That 250 had a replaceable u-joint though (actually, two of them). Later shafts have a non-replaceable one. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
The former 250LWB that I had used a 3 piece drive shaft. For some reason it developed a nasty vibration when I had it. I replaced the carrier bearings and it just got worse. And yes, I had all the marks lined up on it, and marked it before I disassembled it as well. After goofing around with it for several months, I took it to a local driveline service company and asked of they could balance it. Turned out that one of the u-joints was going bad (no doubt the source of the vibration) which they replaced before balancing. I think it cost me about $250 and took 3-4 days (only because the equipment they had to do it on was in their shop in Miami, and they shipped it down there.) I heard all the horror stories about how you had to have all kinds of special stuff to work on MB drive shafts, which may be true, but these guys poo-poo'ed the whole thing and pretty much told me that if they couldn't do the job, no one could. Dan --- Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Driveline Service of Atlanta or the driveline shop > in the northwest > > (can't find the name right now - they also > advertise in the Star) both > > It's in Portland OR, if that helps. > > > claim they can rebalance a shaft without the > damper, or after replacing > > the "U" joint but I've heard from a few of their > customers that were > > dissatisfied (and more than that, that were > pleased). I have not used > > either service. I have replaced several > driveshafts. > > My mechanic used them to replace the U-joint on my > 560 SL. > No discernible problems afterwards. > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
The Benz driveshafts after the W108/109 chassis aren't that easy -- the u-joint is straked in place, not held by centering clips, and if you don't have the jig to strake a new one in exactly centered, it will shake like crazy. BTDT. Get a new shaft, they are cheap in comparison. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
No problem replacing the U-joint without re-balancing so long as you mark the shafts so that they go together the same way. You just need to mark all three pieces with paint or a scribe so that you can put them together the same way they came apart. The U-joint can only go together correct or 180 degrees out. The slip joint is splined & can go together multiple ways. You need to make sure that the paint or scribe marks are accurate enough to make it easy to put the slip joint back together exactly the way it came apart. You don't need to be as careful with the flex disks but some mark the shafts so that they go together the same way anyway. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 8:54 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist > Driveline Service of Atlanta or the driveline shop in the northwest > (can't find the name right now - they also advertise in the Star) both It's in Portland OR, if that helps. > claim they can rebalance a shaft without the damper, or after replacing > the "U" joint but I've heard from a few of their customers that were > dissatisfied (and more than that, that were pleased). I have not used > either service. I have replaced several driveshafts. My mechanic used them to replace the U-joint on my 560 SL. No discernible problems afterwards. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
> Driveline Service of Atlanta or the driveline shop in the northwest > (can't find the name right now - they also advertise in the Star) both It's in Portland OR, if that helps. > claim they can rebalance a shaft without the damper, or after replacing > the "U" joint but I've heard from a few of their customers that were > dissatisfied (and more than that, that were pleased). I have not used > either service. I have replaced several driveshafts. My mechanic used them to replace the U-joint on my 560 SL. No discernible problems afterwards. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Craig McCluskey wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:16:56 -0400 Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> On some cars (201s for sure) the only way the vibration damper is >> available is along with front half of the driveshaft. At least one >> member of this forum has replaced the front driveshaft to replace the >> damper. There are several driveshaft specialist that claim they can >> balance the shaft with or without the damper. Others argue that that is >> not always possible. > > When I was doing my 240D to manual transmission 300D conversion, the > 123.130 driveshaft I acquired in Austin had a vibration damper on the > front flex joint mounting flange. I was severly deteriorated. > > I sent the driveshaft to Driveline Service of Atlanta to be refurbished. > The balanced it without the damper because the part was not available and > because mine was in so bad shape. That does not seem to work with some driveshafts. Mercedes incorporated the damper to meet their tolerances for noise and vibration. If it could be routinely replaced effectively in a simpler/cheaper way in the field, they would have done it that way (they sell dampers for automatics - just not manual transmission driveshafts). Mercedes also will not allow the transmission "U" joint to be replaced in the field - you must replace the driveshaft. That's because few shops have either the machinery or technical skill to meet the Mercedes specifications. Driveline Service of Atlanta or the driveline shop in the northwest (can't find the name right now - they also advertise in the Star) both claim they can rebalance a shaft without the damper, or after replacing the "U" joint but I've heard from a few of their customers that were dissatisfied (and more than that, that were pleased). I have not used either service. I have replaced several driveshafts. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Marshall Your explanation that front propshaft comes with the vibration damper make a lot of sense in that the EPC does not list it seperately. The picture depicted on the EPC suggests that the mount may be part of the driveshaft. It seems that my vibration is not strictly engine rpm related and am considering that it might be differential mounts . PEter -Original Message- From: Marshall Booth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 September 2007 22:17 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist Peter Merle wrote: > Thanks for the sound advice - I did inspect mountings and they did > appear to be sound . I took vehvicle to a retired Mercedes Benz > Mechanic and he said that I should have the vibration damper on the > propshaft ( which I don't have ) The twist comes in that the EPC does > not list a vibration for my vehicle 124.130. Furthur the mechanic > should me a Mercedes publication printed dec 1984 where is states that > the 124.130 manual transmission definetly must have the damper ( the > auto does not ) My vehicle is a manual and has been so since birth so > I'm very puzzled. > > Can anyone confirm that the 124.130 ( manual tranny ) 300D has a > vibration damper ( behind front flex disc ) on the drive shaft? The 124.130 with a manual transmission (the damper on automatics is quite different) was designed to have a vibration damper on the driveshaft, but some did not require one. The damper has NO effect on engine vibration but ONLY on vibration related to ground speed. I have a friend with a 124.003 with a 5 speed. When the damper collapsed (or more accurately tore apart) he had it replaced. On some cars (201s for sure) the only way the vibration damper is available is along with front half of the driveshaft. At least one member of this forum has replaced the front driveshaft to replace the damper. There are several driveshaft specialist that claim they can balance the shaft with or without the damper. Others argue that that is not always possible. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:16:56 -0400 Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On some cars (201s for sure) the only way the vibration damper is > available is along with front half of the driveshaft. At least one > member of this forum has replaced the front driveshaft to replace the > damper. There are several driveshaft specialist that claim they can > balance the shaft with or without the damper. Others argue that that is > not always possible. When I was doing my 240D to manual transmission 300D conversion, the 123.130 driveshaft I acquired in Austin had a vibration damper on the front flex joint mounting flange. I was severly deteriorated. I sent the driveshaft to Driveline Service of Atlanta to be refurbished. The balanced it without the damper because the part was not available and because mine was in so bad shape. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
I would expect excessive vibration at certain rpms and certain conditions. Diff mounts cas be easily checked -- if the rubber is at all deteriorated or the bolts move upward much when the diff is jacked, replace them. This may help. The front diff mount is much less likely to be bad, but as you have to remove the through bolt to replace the rear mounts, it's kinda silly not to replace the rubber in the front one as well. Also check the center bearing mount on the drive shaft -- if you can move the drive shaft more than a couple mm by pulling on it sideways at the mount, replace the mount -- if it's too soft, it allows the drive shaft to "orbit" under load. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Peter Merle wrote: > Thanks for the sound advice - I did inspect mountings and they did > appear to be sound . I took vehvicle to a retired Mercedes Benz Mechanic > and he said that I should have the vibration damper on the propshaft ( > which I don't have ) The twist comes in that the EPC does not list a > vibration for my vehicle 124.130. Furthur the mechanic should me a > Mercedes publication printed dec 1984 where is states that the 124.130 > manual transmission definetly must have the damper ( the auto does not ) > My vehicle is a manual and has been so since birth so I'm very puzzled. > > Can anyone confirm that the 124.130 ( manual tranny ) 300D has a > vibration damper ( behind front flex disc ) on the drive shaft? The 124.130 with a manual transmission (the damper on automatics is quite different) was designed to have a vibration damper on the driveshaft, but some did not require one. The damper has NO effect on engine vibration but ONLY on vibration related to ground speed. I have a friend with a 124.003 with a 5 speed. When the damper collapsed (or more accurately tore apart) he had it replaced. On some cars (201s for sure) the only way the vibration damper is available is along with front half of the driveshaft. At least one member of this forum has replaced the front driveshaft to replace the damper. There are several driveshaft specialist that claim they can balance the shaft with or without the damper. Others argue that that is not always possible. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Peter, What are the symptoms when this is not fitted? I'm considering that the differential mounts might be suspect PEter -Original Message- From: Peter Frederick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 September 2007 15:43 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist Some do, some don't. Manny trannys are rare in the US, and I don't believe that the damper is readily available here. I do know that some cars have it. It may have been removed when it failed as a new one was difficult to obtain. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Some do, some don't. Manny trannys are rare in the US, and I don't believe that the damper is readily available here. I do know that some cars have it. It may have been removed when it failed as a new one was difficult to obtain. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Yes it seems that the petrols all have then according to EPC. It's the Diesel W124 where the confusion arises. PEter -Original Message- From: Hendrik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 September 2007 11:26 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist I have one on my 85 201 manual but it has a M102 motor. Peter Merle wrote: > Thanks for the sound advice - I did inspect mountings and they did > appear to be sound . I took vehvicle to a retired Mercedes Benz > Mechanic and he said that I should have the vibration damper on the > propshaft ( which I don't have ) The twist comes in that the EPC does > not list a vibration for my vehicle 124.130. Furthur the mechanic > should me a Mercedes publication printed dec 1984 where is states that > the 124.130 manual transmission definetly must have the damper ( the > auto does not ) My vehicle is a manual and has been so since birth so > I'm very puzzled. > > Can anyone confirm that the 124.130 ( manual tranny ) 300D has a > vibration damper ( behind front flex disc ) on the drive shaft? > > > Peter > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
I have one on my 85 201 manual but it has a M102 motor. Peter Merle wrote: > Thanks for the sound advice - I did inspect mountings and they did > appear to be sound . I took vehvicle to a retired Mercedes Benz Mechanic > and he said that I should have the vibration damper on the propshaft ( > which I don't have ) The twist comes in that the EPC does not list a > vibration for my vehicle 124.130. Furthur the mechanic should me a > Mercedes publication printed dec 1984 where is states that the 124.130 > manual transmission definetly must have the damper ( the auto does not ) > My vehicle is a manual and has been so since birth so I'm very puzzled. > > Can anyone confirm that the 124.130 ( manual tranny ) 300D has a > vibration damper ( behind front flex disc ) on the drive shaft? > > > Peter > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration - new twist
Thanks for the sound advice - I did inspect mountings and they did appear to be sound . I took vehvicle to a retired Mercedes Benz Mechanic and he said that I should have the vibration damper on the propshaft ( which I don't have ) The twist comes in that the EPC does not list a vibration for my vehicle 124.130. Furthur the mechanic should me a Mercedes publication printed dec 1984 where is states that the 124.130 manual transmission definetly must have the damper ( the auto does not ) My vehicle is a manual and has been so since birth so I'm very puzzled. Can anyone confirm that the 124.130 ( manual tranny ) 300D has a vibration damper ( behind front flex disc ) on the drive shaft? Peter -Original Message- From: Peter Frederick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 September 2007 01:49 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Engine Vibration Check the engine mounts -- on that car they are fluid filled, and when they inevitably leak out, it vibrates badly. Will cluck and hammer on shutoff, too. If it is a drumming vibration, on acceleration only, likely the transmission mount is bad and is allowing the engine to pound on the crossmember. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
