Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Mitch wrote:

> So, either I learn how to swap a T-stat, 

I recall the electric thermostats are trivial to replace.  Unless
it's new enough to have a micro-computer on board...

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 20/12/2019 2:25 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On December 20, 2019 at 3:12 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote:

There is no real need to drain the tank in order to install the anode.

I usually do anode swaps during annual flushing/maintenance.
Drain a few gallons off, swap the anode, then decide if I want to drain it 
totally or figure I already got most of the sediment out.
Swapping the anode has to be done with the tank mostly full or the tank will 
try to walk away when you put a breaker bar on the anode.
But if something appears to be wrong with my lower element, then I'm draining 
the tank.

If I were going to buy a refresh kit I'd put it in my parents' house. 32 year 
old AO Smith, never a hint of trouble. Makes me wonder if the parts that came 
in it are better than the parts in a modern refresh kit and I should leave well 
enough alone.

___

Yes, if it has been working fine for 32 years, I would not start 
changing parts until I had to (except for the anode).



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 20, 2019 at 3:12 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There is no real need to drain the tank in order to install the anode. 

I usually do anode swaps during annual flushing/maintenance. 
Drain a few gallons off, swap the anode, then decide if I want to drain it 
totally or figure I already got most of the sediment out. 
Swapping the anode has to be done with the tank mostly full or the tank will 
try to walk away when you put a breaker bar on the anode. 
But if something appears to be wrong with my lower element, then I'm draining 
the tank. 

If I were going to buy a refresh kit I'd put it in my parents' house. 32 year 
old AO Smith, never a hint of trouble. Makes me wonder if the parts that came 
in it are better than the parts in a modern refresh kit and I should leave well 
enough alone.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 20, 2019 at 2:55 PM dan--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> If you do tear into it, go the kit route and swap both elements out. If you 
> don’t the old one will fail in a week or two, guaranteed.
> 

I'm assuming those who think I have scale in the water heater or at least on 
the elements are correct. 

So I just ordered 2 44x7/8" mag rods (Rheem) from your pal John Menard for $27. 
I put a new anode in my parents' water heater in 2012 and installed my new 
heater in 2013 so it's time to do both. 
When I swap the mag rods I'll drain the water out of mine and pull the lower 
element. Then decide if I need to replace elements, clean elements, or get a 
few pounds of citric acid and descale the whole tank.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I think I would agree. Given the reasonable cost of elements, I think I 
would put 2 new ones in. Then you should be good for a while.  No sense 
working on it again soon. I don't know that I would bother changing 
thermostats if they appear to be functioning properly.


If the pressure relief valve does not show signs of leaking water, then 
it is likely fine too. I know they can shriek if the pressure causes 
them to open but they will pretty much always leak water if that is the 
case.


There is no real need to drain the tank in order to install the anode. 
It normally goes in from the top. Turn off the water and maybe drain off 
a little bit and then unscrew the anode and put the new one in. If you 
do not have a lot of headroom over the tank, get one of the segmented 
anodes.


The suggestion that the scream is caused by the scale on the element is 
something I am unfamiliar with. My experience has been  pretty much all 
with soft water and I have not encountered that sort of thing.


On 20/12/2019 1:55 PM, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:

If you do tear into it, go the kit route and swap both elements out. If you 
don’t the old one will fail in a week or two, guaranteed.

-D


On Dec 20, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
wrote:

So it looks like drain the tank again and pull the lower element and clean or 
replace it.

They sell kits for around $30 with two elements, two gaskets, and two 
thermostats.
Or new elements are $5 (silver colored) $10 (copper) $20 (folded large surface 
copper) and $50 (titanium).

I think I'll get that magnesium rod ordered and ignore the noise until it gets 
here. Don't want to drain it again without replacing the rod.

___



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:55:36 -0500 dan--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> If you do tear into it, go the kit route and swap both elements out. If
> you don’t the old one will fail in a week or two, guaranteed.

And be sure to replace the T valve ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[dan--- via Mercedes]

If you do tear into it, go the kit route and swap both elements out. If you 
don’t the old one will fail in a week or two, guaranteed.

-D

> On Dec 20, 2019, at 2:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So it looks like drain the tank again and pull the lower element and clean or 
> replace it.
> 
> They sell kits for around $30 with two elements, two gaskets, and two 
> thermostats.
> Or new elements are $5 (silver colored) $10 (copper) $20 (folded large 
> surface copper) and $50 (titanium).
> 
> I think I'll get that magnesium rod ordered and ignore the noise until it 
> gets here. Don't want to drain it again without replacing the rod.
> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

So it looks like drain the tank again and pull the lower element and clean or 
replace it.

They sell kits for around $30 with two elements, two gaskets, and two 
thermostats.
Or new elements are $5 (silver colored) $10 (copper) $20 (folded large surface 
copper) and $50 (titanium).

I think I'll get that magnesium rod ordered and ignore the noise until it gets 
here. Don't want to drain it again without replacing the rod.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+1


OK Don via Mercedes 
December 20, 2019 at 1:06 PM
The screaming can be scale on the element - holding water there long 
enough

to boil before letting other seep in and then boil.
Hotter than it should be is the thermostat.
Maybe both ---
They are not that expensive and not hard to replace ...


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The screaming can be scale on the element - holding water there long enough
to boil before letting other seep in and then boil.
Hotter than it should be is the thermostat.
Maybe both ---
They are not that expensive and not hard to replace ...

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:58 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The thermostats appear to be functional and it only screams when the lower
> element is powered.
> If the top thermostat is off and the lower thermostat is on, it screams.
> If the water in the bottom gets over 100°F, you can turn off the lower
> thermostat and the noise stops.
> Turn the lower thermostat up and within seconds the noise resumes.
> Should I blindly replace the temperature/pressure relief valve, pull the
> lower element and take a look at it, or
> what?___
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Looking at thermostats online, it looks like they have cheapened them 
and the removable pin is no longer there. The pointer just bumps up 
against the plastic housing now.

No quality anymore. Just junk.

Randy

On 20/12/2019 10:33 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

There are two thermostats.  Upper, and lower.

-- Jim







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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Electric tanks normally last better than that in my experience.
Is it leaking somewhere? That might account for the high pitched squeal.
I think I would look first at the pressure relief valve. That might be 
the source of the sound if it is leaking slightly. If the tank is really 
hot that is supposed to bleed off pressure so that you do not create 
your very own rocket.
Thermostat should not be difficult to change and be readily available 
but I think I would check the elements to see if they are good first. I 
would think you can easily test the thermostat to see if it turns on and 
off with a multi meter just checking for continuity to see at what 
temperature it turns on and off. If you have a temperature meter of some 
sort, you can verify the actual tank temperature too.
I assume 240 Volt.  Are both elements the same? Sometimes a larger 
element on top and a smaller one on the bottom. I would normally test to 
see if they draw current by using a clamp on meter. They should draw 
equal current across each side. A 3000W element should draw somewhere 
around 12 amps if I recall correctly. P=V X I so you can easily 
calculate what the Amps should be given the size of the element and the 
voltage.
You may need to turn the upper element off in order to get the bottom 
one to turn on. They normally only work one at a time. If the upper will 
not turn down enough to shut off, use pliers and pull the little pin on 
the thermostat to permit you to turn the needle further back.
Should be lots more info on the net but HWT are pretty simple and you 
should be able to determine the problem and get parts from the local big 
box stores.


I trust you are aware that it is not a good idea to work on it with the 
power turned on except for the times when you need to check amperage etc.




On 20/12/2019 10:19 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

Last night I heard a loud noise from the water heater, a continuous high pitch 
squeal.
Pulled the disconnect and it went away.
Hmm, it's not time to flush it but I'll do that.
Flushed it out, turned it back on and 90 minutes later it's squealing again.
Turn a faucet to relieve the pressure, and wow that's hot.
Pulled the disconnect again and took the cover off the thermostat.
With power on, it makes the noise. Turning the thermostat down does not stop 
the noise.
Turning the thermostat down all the way doesn't shut it off. And did I mention 
the water is hotter than usual?

Great...

So, either I learn how to swap a T-stat, I put the old propane heater back in, 
or a buy another electric one.
This one is only 6 1/2 years old, I was getting ready to buy a mag rod for it.
I guess GE timed the 6 year warranty nicely.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

There are two thermostats.  Upper, and lower.

-- Jim


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[MBZ] OT: Electric water heater screaming at me

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Last night I heard a loud noise from the water heater, a continuous high pitch 
squeal.
Pulled the disconnect and it went away. 
Hmm, it's not time to flush it but I'll do that. 
Flushed it out, turned it back on and 90 minutes later it's squealing again. 
Turn a faucet to relieve the pressure, and wow that's hot. 
Pulled the disconnect again and took the cover off the thermostat. 
With power on, it makes the noise. Turning the thermostat down does not stop 
the noise. 
Turning the thermostat down all the way doesn't shut it off. And did I mention 
the water is hotter than usual?

Great...

So, either I learn how to swap a T-stat, I put the old propane heater back in, 
or a buy another electric one. 
This one is only 6 1/2 years old, I was getting ready to buy a mag rod for it. 
I guess GE timed the 6 year warranty nicely. 
Mitch.

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